New Getrag Gearbox for the Cooper in 2005

Frank Aug 18th, 2003 Link

I think this is great news, Gabe. I was never fond of the Midland Gear supplied 5-speed gearbox in the std Cooper. Doesn't seem to be made for the long haul in my honest opinion. My distrust only grew more for this transmission when some disgruntled Midland workers bowed to intentionally sabotage some of the gearboxes during the manufacturing process to protest labor related issues.

I think BMW is making a good move by outsourcing all their manuals from Getrag instead (The MINI D already uses a different tunded gear ratio version of the MCS' 6-speed manual) and the CVTs from ZF in Belgium.

I have read about complaints of 5-speed Cooper owners already having their trannies replaced or repaired after a year or so of ownership.

Ryan Aug 18th, 2003 Link

I am one of the Cooper owners that has had numerous troubles with the MG5. It is a POS and I have envied the MCS owners because of this difference alone. I can't wait to feel the difference.

Gabe Aug 19th, 2003 Link

I guess it just depends on your experience with the tranny. Mine was been excellent for 29,000 miles.

According to New MINI by Graham Robson BMW originally wanted Getrag throughout the range all the way back in '97. It was the engineers in England that persuaded them to go with the Midland Gear unit. They especially made note of the R65's long term reliabilty as one of it's better traits. There were a couple other reasons for choosing the R65 over the Getrag but I'll have to go back and look at that section to remember them.

That being said I think this is certainly an improvement. I've always wished for a Cooper with the transmission of an MCS and the clutch of a Cooper. As I said before I'll just be glad if the cluth take up doesn't change on the MC to what the MCS currently has with it's Getrag unit.

Dan Feb 1st, 2004 Link

I think the new transmission will be great. I had mine replaced at 5,000 miles when it lost 5th gear. Right now it is in the shop because 5th gear is making a roaring noise on the second transmission. The dealer has no idea what it is and may put a third transmission in anyway.

Art Jun 5th, 2004 Link

Great site, keeps me one step ahead of all the dealers I know ;-) Im currently looking into purchasing a Cooper or S, and I was wondering when exactly the Cooper will get the Getrag transmission (aka if I order one soon, will it have it ;-)), and if this is something I should wait for?

Jim Sep 8th, 2004 Link

I've just received delivery of a facelift 54 reg mini one with the new Getrag 5 gearbox. Unfortunately for all you excited people, mine needed replacement from day one. The symptoms are; noisy when idling, knocking when changing gear and werring noises when pulling away around corners. Hopefull the new gearbox being fitted next week will solve the problem. I'll be keen to here from anyone else who has the same problem.

Nathan Sep 16th, 2004 Link

My tranny (r65) recently went up and is being replaced as i type, i was wondering if anyone thinks i might be lucky enough to get the new Getrag 5 speed from the 05's MC. Just thought someone might know before i do.

Jim Sep 20th, 2004 Link

Update on the noisy Gatrag 5 gearbox. I've now been told by the BMW service engineer that they are all like this. I've test driven two other 05 Mini now and their just as bad. So, I would stay well clear of the new Mini untill BMW sort it out. I currently trying to get a refund, inorder to buy an older version. Wish me luck.

Bob Oct 23rd, 2004 Link

My wife and I purchased one of the first 2005 Mini convertibles in late August. Guess what, 1000 miles later and we had to have a new transmission put in. I looks like the noise went away for a week and it coming back. The Engineers at Mini really do not know what going on or their not telling. I think number two transmission will be on its way.

Reuben V. Apodaca Nov 18th, 2004 Link

My wife and I took dellivery of an 05 Mini in mid-October. Within days we starting hearing a rattling noise under the bonnet plus a clicking noise whenever the clutch was depressed. We had the car towed to the shop and they replaced the tranny. We went to pick up our car the other day and as soon as my wife started it up, a slightly different rattling sound could be heard. Now, we're waiting for a field service rep to take a look at our car to see what the problem is (probably gearbox.)

Taznuv Feb 7th, 2005 Link

BMW have developed a revised clutch which on my car at least has much reduced these problems. This has been available in the last few weeks, if you aren’t offered it you should ask for it.

Steve Apr 13th, 2005 Link

We’ve a Jan 05 Mini One - the gearbox is noisy when idling, knocking when changing gear and werring noises when pulling away around corners. The werring appears to be getting worse.

We’ve been told by our dealer that it’s normal & we’ll get used to it.

Perhaps it’s worth getting in touch with Watchdog?

Mike Abbott May 8th, 2005 Link

The problem grows……….
My wife and I purchased a 54 reg mini one in November 04. On the first day I noticed a noise from the clutch/gearbox. There is a knocking noise/werring noise when changing gear when you release the clutch pedal. You can hear it more easily if you have the engine running and the car in neutral and just push the clutch pedal down and up. At fist the dealer tried to say there was not a problem, but since then we’ve had two new clutches and a new gearbox and the noise is still there. We wrote to BMW directly listing the problem and guess what, they said it was not a problem and there was nothing more they will do………..

Perhaps it is time to write to WATCHDOG!!!!!!!!

daniel May 28th, 2005 Link

I have the mini cooper with R65 gearbox and i’ve blowned up the gearbox after 2 jears( it was making knocking sounds 2 months already), than bmw swapped the gearbox fot the new getrag gearbox, and that one has blowned today, an jear after the r65 gearbox. it had exactly the same problems as the r65 gearbox

Bish Jun 9th, 2005 Link

funny i found this site, i have a 2003 Cooper S, i have just been told the loud rattling noise whilst driving under strain is a ” characteristic” of the car and gearbox. I think not , i am awaiting a test drive of another Cooper S as i have been told they all do this !!

Chris Black Jun 26th, 2005 Link

We have a 54 plate Cooper with the same noisy gearbox. The box was originally ok until a oil leak forced MINI to change it. Since then the noise is persistant and very annoying. MINI dealer in Eseex stated they are all like that and that they wouldnt change it again. Have demanded meeting with engineer, arranged for late July. Will keep you all posted. I think MINI should recall them and get the box sorted out. But how am I other than someone how has spent £16K on a new car.

Bob Cabaniss Jul 1st, 2005 Link

Have just ordered
(june 05)an 05 mini convertable (not an “S)…after reading these transmission problems, and intending to tow the car behind a motorhome…should I cancell my order and purchase something else???

Gabe Jul 1st, 2005 Link

Bob - for the 99.9% of people that don’t have problems… there’s really no reason for them to tell people about it. In other words… I wouldn’t worry about it in the grand scheme of things.

Greg Clare Jul 11th, 2005 Link

Just got a Mini One in June 2005. It too has the noisy, knocking Getrag gearbox descibed above. My after-sales centre tell me that BMW say that’s just how it is. Reading the above comments, however, I’m not feeling too optimistic. My leasing company have recommended that I get them to road test it, for the record.

Chris Black Aug 1st, 2005 Link

Been to Dealer again.(Essex)
The juddering clutch and the noisy box are both to be looked at by MINI engineer on 26th Aug. D’not hold your breath.
The service manager said that my box isn’t the noisiest he’s heard so don’t expect the MINI man to say anything different.

If I had known of this ‘fault’ I would never have parted with £16k!!!!

Anyone know good engineer so I can have it independantly checked?

Bob Aug 3rd, 2005 Link

I wrote last year and now the 05 mini cooper convertible is on its third transmission after only 4900 miles. After all of this, now their saying the noise is normal. I believe there is a major problem with their transmissions.

OctaneGuy Aug 10th, 2005 Link

My Midlands on my 03 MC just failed after 43,000 miles. It’s at the dealer now awaiting a new one.

steve Aug 24th, 2005 Link

Mine just went yesterday and I wanted to see if there was any other problems out there with 2003’s… This is my first blown clutch at 48,000 miles.

Maz Sep 6th, 2005 Link

Well I have just had my mini cabrio for about a month and I am suffering the same problem with the knocking sound. They told me that that is noremal when the car heats up. But I am having the same problem when i start it in the morning. I had an engineer look at it today and they said it is normal they all do that. They have already installed a new Clutch kit(so they have said). I have been going back and forward with them. So don’t waste your breathe. I think they have a big f up with the gearbax and the clutch and don’t want to own up to it. There has to be something we can all do.

From Sydney Australia

Niall Sep 6th, 2005 Link

I use a R65 box in my MG ZR rally car,although it now has a dog kit fitted it did do a lot of rallies with the std gear cluster fitted.the clutch is std apart from a uprated plate.
Problems with R65′S are quite rare considering the amount that are in daily use.

Chris Black Sep 24th, 2005 Link

Well here we are again. The MINI engineer arrived and he listened to the gearbox. He said it sounded normal and that there was no way they would change it a second time!!
The juddering clutch will be changed again complete with new fly wheel.
He told me that since the Getrag box was installed a modified clutch was introduced in Feb 05, which I had fitted, but strangely another modified vewrsion will be available in late Sept 05 and this is what I’m waiting for. When its fitted will post agian but engineer said it was designed to reduce the rumbling noise at idle and not the knocking when gear changing..

colin alain Sep 27th, 2005 Link

can i have a copy of the entire article
please

August 16, 2003
This news comes from the industry publication Automotive Engineer Magazine:

Midland Gear, the BMW-owned firm that supplies the R65 gearbox for the MINI ONE and MINI Cooper, is to be wound up in June/July 2004, John Mortimer reports. The plan was for the site to stay operational until 2006, but a decision by MG Rover - which also takes a similar version of the R65 gearbox - to switch supply to a Getrag factory in France forced BMW’s hand, bringing the closure forward.

…Until June/July, Midland Gear will continue to supply BMW’s assembly plant at Oxford with it’s version of the R65 gearbox containing a synchro pack. The first MINI to take the Getrag five-speed will be the MINI Cabriolet, which starts production in April 2004. At that point the MINI ONE and the Cooper will also switch to the Getrag five-speed gearbox.

The rest of the article is only available in print but you can find a scanned in copy here (courtesy of Pritch via a post at MINI2).

Leanne Oct 2nd, 2005 Link

Within the first week of picking up my new mini cooper 2005, i too noticed the knocking of the clutch & extreme whining & noises ocurring when in low speeds. Complained several times, had the car in the mini garage where they too came to the conclusion that minis all make the same noise Strange that…my partner has a 2005 mini and his is fine! I insisted that i was not happy with this and 5 months later I am still waiting for thespecial tecnician to make his assesment. After reading all the comments i think BMW need to sit up & take note & make some action.

Chris Matthews Oct 10th, 2005 Link

Hey everyone, I am too struggling with the rattling Getrag gearbox and clutch on the Mini Cooper delivered March 2005. BMW and the dealer know there is a problem yet just say it performs according to specification! I even saw notes from BMW to the dealer stating that if the customer winges then change his clutch, if he pushes hard change his gearbox. Already had a new clutch and gearbox after just 4 weeks and the noises are still there. Everytime I change gear and depress the clutch at low revs I am reminded what a heap of junk I am driving! I would never have bought the car if I had knwon it would rattle like this. I have been in touch with Jane Noble head of customer services at BMW waste of space! When Phil Neil BMW technical expert test drove the car he noted the problems immediately but still they wont fix it!
Has anyone started a law suit yet? Anyone been successful.

Leanne Oct 15th, 2005 Link

Has anyone approached a car mag like auto express. They had an article in the watchdog section, a few issues ago about a lady with all the above problems with her gearbox. No surprise but BMW deny any problem. If people start emailing in their stories they may do a follow up piece & get some answers from BMW?

Richard Child Oct 27th, 2005 Link

My wife bought her Mini Cooper in June 05 , the gearbox and clutch have rattled and clonked from day1.The worst noise is when changing from 3rd to 2nd , I have tried various methods but I am unable to get a smooth gearchange The only way reverse can be engaged without a crunch or grating is to select 5th gear first (our dealer stated this is due to there being no syncro on reverse)
I have test driven other 05 models and they all behave the same , after spending over £15k , I would not expect these problems - I will post comments from my dealer soon

blalor Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I’ve got an ‘05 MCS that I took delivery of at the end of May. I don’t have any of these problems. Very rarely, it will grind (just a little) going into first, or require cycling the clutch to get it into first after sitting in neutral.

You’ve experienced this on other MCSes? Wow. There is some noise when you let the clutch out with the tranny in neutral and the engine running; it goes away when you push the clutch in. Aside from that, I don’t have any discernible noise, and no problems with reverse.

Chris Black Nov 12th, 2005 Link

As promised the latest episode..
New clutch and flywheel fitted last week (the mk3 clutch -available only after Sept 05).
The clutch operation is now fine and the rumble at idle is much better. The clicking between gears is still there and MINI have said they will do no more and thats its normal!!
Having spoken to a number of dealers it appears that they are well aware of the problem but with the new MINI comimng out next year, MINI not prepared to spend anymore time or money on this problem.
May I suggest to everyone that you get a new clutch and flywheel fitted as there is some improvement and if enough people ask it may make them sit up and notice but dont blame me if its no better.
Ref Richard Childs comments - my reverse is fine although I was told that MINI suggest depressing clutch and waiting 5 seconds before trying reverse!!!
I suspect your clutch is dragging a little - perhaps a new one in order?
regards
Chris

leanne Dec 13th, 2005 Link

No joy with the BMW technician. He has finally looked at my car & decided there is no such problems with the whining gearbox.(see above comments).
I just hope when i come to sell it, it doesn`
Also why design a gearbox that requires people to put it in 1st or 5th gear before selecting reverse? Its just plain daft!

Karl and Michelle Jan 10th, 2006 Link

We purchased a 55 plate Mini Cooper New on 1st Sept 05. We noticed after a few days once the excitement had died down a bit that when you changed gear we had a clunk which having read this forum we realise that we are not alone with this problem. We were also told by our BMW MINI dealer that this was normal which we accepted at first. After reflection and having just spent £15k on a car we did not feel we should accept the clunk and apparent juddering so we approached them again. We were told to run it in for 1500 miles to see if it dissapeared, we agreed and 2000 miles later the car has gone in today. They phoned to tell us that it was normal and driving perfectly but the BMW engineer happened to be in today(convienient?) and he would have a look at it for us as we were still not willing to accept it, they phoned us back to tell us that they were going to fit a modified clutch tommorow(hopefully this will work!!!). Also has anyone noticed metal particles in the paintwork on the rear end or side of the Mini, when washed they can be removed with a little effort but within a few miles they are back again, we were told it could be the CAT wearing in(Hmmmmmm!) there is no evidence of particles on the roof or front of car only the rear. Any ideas?
Will post again when the Clutch has done a few miles.

Squeaker Jan 11th, 2006 Link

I am curious if there is anyone out there who is flat towing a “S” with the 6 speed transmission and if so how has it performed?
Squeaker

James L Jan 26th, 2006 Link

I have a Nov 2004 (54) Mini One, which has had a knocking from the clutch area when cold. It went in to Snow’s BMW in Portsmouth in Feburary 2005 and had the updated clutch, which cured the problem until December 2005. Mini is currently back at snows, just had the call that they have ordered the revised Gearbox. Is this going to fix the problem?

John Mar 2nd, 2006 Link

Just brought mini one convertible 2005 model (June manufacture) First week great and then knocking when releasing clutch and gravel noise from gearbox.
Took it back to BMW where engineer listened and agreed there was a problem and he had a pretty good idea what it was.
Car booked in and referred to BMW who said to drive the car for another 250 miles. After thinking about this raised the issue with Mini UK who advised the same.
Not happy so took car back to dealer who got technician to drive the car and agreed there was a problem and would refer to BMW again with a view to getting replacement box
Dealer obviously advised BMW of one unhappy customer and yes new revised gearbox being fited with all new associated parts.
Must say had full support of dealer which was great.

Tracey Burr Apr 15th, 2006 Link

Feb 04 build Cooper..whine coming from Midlands gearbox ( only done 8,400 miles!!).. engineer has been out with me and heard the noise and is being sorted out next week..I’ll post again if problem is sorted out completely. You don’t expect to hear a whine after 8K miles!!!

Westie Jun 29th, 2006 Link

Hi

I have had the same problem as mentioned above.

We bought the car back in 2004 and it was one of the first ‘facelift’ minis with the new getrag gearbox.

After complaining, we had a revised clutch fitted, which did NOT cure the clunking. BMW told us there was no more they can do, and it is considered ‘normal’

I now see mention here of a ‘revised’ getrag gearbox that addresses this problem ? Is that correct ? When did this become available ?

For the record the clunking noise only affect ‘facelift’ minis with the 5 speed getrag gear box, NOT the Cooper ‘S’ or the pre-’facelift’( Mid 2004 ) Mini’s

Aussom Jul 20th, 2006 Link

Hi all,

I recently purchased a second hand April 2002 manufactured MCS with 64,000 kilometres (39,768 miles) on the clock. After 2 weeks I noticed a rattling noise audible after I turned off the radio and air conditioner through the front passenger firewall (near the gearbox and clutch areas) when the car is in idle, but disappears when the clutch is pushed in. I also noticed that gear shifting between first and second is hard and a bit of noise is generated, but the shifting is fine and smooth for higher gears plus reverse.

In the third week I had two episodes of the rattle becoming quite loud through the passenger footwell firewall when pulling into the driveway in first gear. I took the mini to an experienced technician (20 years specialising in minis) in week 4 and he advised it’s the first time he has come across this noise in the new MCS (he has serviced the old and new Mini Cooper, Cooper S and John Cooper Works models and hadn’t come across this noise). After spending 30 minutes investigating and revving the car in idle while manouvering the clutch, he concluded that there is a gearbox fault (not a clutch fault) and believes a faulty gearbox bearing is the culprit. He stated that the gearbox needed to basically be stripoed and rebuilt with a service kit from BMW Germany which could take six weeks to import to Australia.

I then took the car to BMW Service (the car is no longer under BMW warranty) and they concluded that after speaking with MINI regional service support that the gearbox noise is “characteristic” of the MCS, as is the light clunk noise is coming from within the dashboard but didn’t think it was worthwhile pulling the dash apart to investigate what he described may be an ordinary characteristic car noise. BMW advised me to bring the car back in if the (gearbox / clutch?) noise gets louder or the car’s performance is affected.

Now in the sixth week of ownership, over the past three mornings during cold start, there is a loud knocking noise from the clutch / gearbox area while in idle which can be easily heard over the supercharger when listening under the wheel arch, with its frequency increasing and decreasing in line with the engine revs. The noise diminishes when the clutch is depressed or when starting to drive, but still can be heard under the wheel arch afterwards (although quieter) when idling. Have contacted the car dealer’s mechanic and he believes it could be either: 1) a faulty gearbox bearing; 2) characteristic gear “chatter” (where the gear teeth rattle against each-other), or 3) Gearbox oil grade / quality / level. BMW previously advised that the gearbox oil is basically a life-time item and doesn’t need to be changed. The mechanic mentioned that the noise should not be occurring given the car’s mileage, but needed to check which model gearbox is on the car and hopefully will be thoroughly checked out next week.

My Mini also experiences a light spring/clunk-like noise from the front of the cabin that occurs every time that the mini reaches 20 kilometres per hour (about 12.5 miles per hour), then another noise around 60 kilometres per hour (37 miles per hour). Only experienced from driving after cold starting, it doesn’t happen when the car is running - stopped in idle, then accelerated. Has anyone else also experienced these noises?

Hopefully I will have more conclusive news over the next week or so on the rattle noise!

Aussom Jul 30th, 2006 Link

The local mechanic inspected my MCS with its gearbox rattling sound while in neutral and surmised that the problem could be a flat spot on a gearbox bearing or a gearbox oil level/quality issue. He advised that the technology is too advanced for his training and it needs to be properly checked by an authorised Mini service centre. So much for used car dealer preferred mechanics while under used car warranty. Back to square 1?

Colin C. Sep 4th, 2006 Link

I bought a 55 plate mini cooper…within a few weeks I noticed the same gearbox rattling when stationary so took the car to the Mini garage.

The Technician agreed that there was a fault and offered to replace the gearbox - which I refused. I demanded a new car and after much arguing, the Mini garage eventually gave in and replaced the car with a new 06 plate mini cooper. Great! or so I thought…this replacement car then began to experience the same gearbox rattle.

I was offered a full refund as the garage could not guarantee that the third new car would not have the same fault…talk about no confidence in the Mini product. I then bought a third Mini with my refund at a different Mini garage in the hope that the problem had been sorted. Took it home this week and its making the same noice.

MIKE HOLMES Sep 5th, 2006 Link

I bought a mini cooper, brand new last november on a 55 plate. Having been a mechanic years ago on cortinas and old escorts and the like. I just cant understand that in 2005, we find ourselves spending 16k on a high spec and high tec car, which has a permanently crunching reverse gear. Having read some of the comments here i find that the box has no syncro on reverse. And why is that? even old cars ive mentioned above had reverse syncro. The bloody thing is owned by bmw and they cant even get the box right.
Whats giong on. Then i find by reading these comments that EVERYONE IS BEING FOBBED OFF WITH CRAP EXCUSES, They made a bad choice in gearbox and we just have to live with it do we?? Has anybody actually contacted watchdog.
BMW’s thinking, that they are bringing a new mini out in late 2006, so the owners of previous minis can take a running jump is totally attrocious, and badly needs addressing. I think we should all contact the car magazines and watchdog and demand an explanation.
I bet if we bought an M3 they wouldnt allow this to happen. How much money has someone got to spend on a car to be taken seriously.
Once again RIP OFF BRITAIN.
From one very angry mini owner.

emily Sep 7th, 2006 Link

My dad recently bought me an 06 MINI one, which i absolutely adore. After three months we noticed the dreaded rattling sound underneath the bonnet, which vanished once the clutch was dipped. My dad immediately took my car back and my clutch was replaced on warranty with no problem. The mini dealership actually fully acknowledged the sound and said they knew of the problem. Unfortunately, the dreaded sound was still there when i came to pick up my car! I was then told a new gearbox would be fitted, again under warranty. This was done and within 8 miles of driving my car back home from the mini garage, the noise had reappeared. I found this rather devastating and my car was immediately returned. A senior BMW technition was called in, who suggested my car needed yet another new gearbox. This has now been fitted but on picking up my car, i was told that this problem was due to my own driving and that i was making the error of not dipping my clutch for a full 10 seconds, prior to engaging reverse gear, every single time (which should also stop the crunching sound when placing the gear in reverse) My immediate reaction was to feel extremely embarrassed that in 3 months of owning my car i had managed to do so much apparent damage due to not dipping the clutch for long enough each time i wanted to reverse…and then i thought, this is ridiculous! Do mini seriously expect every single person to dip their clutch for 10 whole seconds everytime they need to engage reverse, so as not to seemingly wreck their gearboxes?
I should say that the mini dealership have been very good in replacing all the necessary parts but unfortunately i am now living in fear of placing my mini into reverse.Whilst i still love driving my mini more than anything else, this is not what i expected from such an expensive and beautiful car. Strangely, i have never wrecked any other car that i have driven!! After reading all of these comments i am now waiting for the day that the rattle will return, as i fear i have not heard the last of it!

Martin Feely Feb 9th, 2007 Link

My wife and I own a 2005(september delivery) MINI 1.6 we have been having problems with reverse gear-no synchro between fifth and reverse we are told by MINI mechanic. This is beggars belief. Crunching sound when trying to engage reverse just like the many owners above.
What can we do? There is barely 10,000 miles up and this problem began happening a year into ownership. mechanic says there all like this and thats it. Well its not we are not going to accept this

Martin Feely Feb 9th, 2007 Link

My wife and I own a 2005(september delivery) MINI 1.6 we have been having problems with reverse gear-no synchro between fifth and reverse we are told by MINI mechanic. This beggars belief. Crunching sound when trying to engage reverse just like the many owners above.
What can we do? There is barely 10,000 miles up and this problem began happening a year into ownership. mechanic says there all like this and thats it. Well its not we are not going to accept this

Carl Farrington Feb 13th, 2007 Link

I do not know if the same applies here, but the Getrag 6spd box in the Toyota Supra turbo (Getrag v160/v161) is famous for being ‘agricultural’, and due to the flywheel design which goes with the box, it makes a ‘ball bearings in a can’ noise while idling. These are all considered normal traits of the box, and are accepted as prefectly fine by Supra owners. The v160/v161 box is ridiculously strong and will take ~1,000hp (one thousand horsepower).

I don’t know if this is just a trait of all Getrag boxes, but as far as I’ve always understood, Getrag boxes are one of the best out there.

Regarding crunching on reverse, how about waiting for the revs to drop before selecting reverse!

watchdog pattison - MINI2 - MINI Forum Aug 12th, 2008 Link

[...] pattison ive been reading about the GATRAG gearbox heres just some of it MotoringFile � Archive � New Getrag Gearbox for the Cooper in 2005 is this anybody from here who has posted any? ive read all of it because im having problems [...]