More Details on MINIs Upcoming Engine Change

Sections: In the Press | R56 (Hatch) Jan 28th, 2004 23 Comments

This news comes from this week's Autoexpress:

new engine

“Bosses at MINI are playing it cool on the future of the popular supermini's engine range – but pictures in the current issue of Auto Express magazine will send a shiver down their spines. We've scooped two prototypes putting hot new powerplants through their paces.

Although they don't sport the facelifted front first revealed in issue 779, the cars do have a mysterious bulge on the bonnet. Insiders at the company have confirmed that an engine development project is well underway. And while the changes will be hidden from the eye, they are expected to revolutionise the way the model drives.

The BMW-developed MINI currently uses a 1.6-litre four-cylinder unit developed jointly with Chrysler. In the past, the South American-built engine, which is available with 100, 115 and 163bhp power outputs, has been criticised for lacking refinement and low rev torque. So a new 1.6-litre – to be assembled at the Hams Hall plant in the Midlands – will replace it next year. Not only will it offer better performance and smoothness, but also improved fuel economy. Base versions, to be fitted in the MINI One, are tipped to offer around 110bhp, while a new 130bhp unit is planned for the Cooper. However, future motors for the Cooper S are still under discussion.

We've learned there's support for a new 2.0-litre with around 180bhp, plus a similarly powerful 1.6 turbo. The three engines will feature in the forthcoming Cabriolet. Prices for cars with the new units will be revealed closer to launch. Dan Strong “

From what I can gather these figures are a bit off of BMW internal forecasts. In fact you can see the entire model development in this previous post. From MINI's internal forcast it would seem the Cooper will be around the 140hp mark with a 6-speed (most likely a Getrag) and the Cooper S will have a turbocharged 170hp engine – both 1.6L in size.

Regardless of hp numbers I think I can say with some confidence that AutoExpress is not referring to the 2005 model year when they mention the roll out dates of these engines. Again from the information I've seen the Cooper version comes out first (in the current R50) in late 2005 as a 2006. Then it gets tricky, again according to the supposed timeline, the new MINI (codenamed the R56) comes out in late 2006 as a 2007 model. That's when the MCS will join the MC with the new engine – it's output around 170hp.

For more information on this engine you can check out these posts from last year: New MINI Engine Caught Testing and The MINI Gets a Prince.

Written By: MF Staff

Rick

but they are sporting the new headlamps?
http://bridger.us/mini Gabe

No – these test mules sport none of the 2005 facelift or the 2007 redesign. They are simply R52 (current MCS) with the new engines transplanted for testing purposes.
http://www.TeamMightyMiniZ.com Doug

Well this could be great news. But for those of us who have already bought or will buy this year, it's kind of a downer. It's a natural progression of course, but it will make these issues even the JCW wimpy and dated by comparison. Maybe an open ended lease is the answer? Seems like a lot of cake to keep tossing towards BMW/MINI if you know what I mean.
http://omor.com/mini/ dc

Encouraging news.

Hopefully we will see some high end (7000 rpm plus) torque, too, like in a 10 year old Honda VTEC engine.

Are these new engine joint ventures or BMW-only ?

Ang word on new diesels, or diesles coming to the USA in low sulphur 2006+ ?
Frank

I totally disagree with the unfair criticism of the current TRITEC powerplants. It seems to me that the motivation to move away from the TRITEC venture is fueled more by internal politics and rivarly than anything of real substance.

I ahve never owned before a 1.6L engine so enjoyable, efficient, powerful, simple and economical than the standard and Supercharged versions in the MINI.

Heck, even Wards Automotive awarded the MCS' 1.6L Supercharged engine among the top 10 best engines in the world for 2003.

I am not against change and evolution but feel that BMW wants to turn the MINI into a 7K RPM+ screamer. To me torque that high in the powerband is totally useless to me in day to day driving, unless I am at the racetrack.

I will not be among the “guinea” pigs of the new Peugeot engine when it comes due in the R56 platform next year. As much as I believe the French have cleaned up their reliability act, I am still wary of their unproven powertrains in this country. For me, TRITEC all the way.
Frank

The grass is not always greener on the other side. While new Peugeot engine owners deal with all the problems of a first year design, we the 'OLD' TRITEC guard will be enjoying reliable MINIs for time to come.

The main “sin” of the TRITEC engine is that it was co-designed and built by BMW's archrival, Daimler-Chrysler.

Ask yourself this question…how many failures of the TRITEC engine mechanicals have been reported? (Don't bring up the Siemens EMS2000 software issues, because TRITEC does not manufacture or code the electronic engine management system).
Robert

I just hope they keep it simple and economical to drive no matter who builds the engines.

I got rid of a '97 4Runner that got 16-17 mpg, if I was lucky. I am very happy with the 23-26 I get with my 2002 MCS and it's a blast to drive!

I have had no problems with the engine or trans. Just the software issues which are being fixed with the instal of CD36 tomorrow, and the issues of quality & the dealerships that BMW should be more concerned about.

I hope they don't get into the HP race, like so many others, and turn it into a Caddy Escalump or a Sunbeam Tiger Mark 11 with a Ford V8 289. The thing was almost uncontrollable. But FUN!

And that's my 2 cents worth!

RB
Jordan Michaels

yes, i too love the current engine and i think BMW/MINI is feeling the pressure from these other screamers out on the market to produce a HP machine. I however am not sure about the french engine also, i dont think it can be good. But did you say up to 180 hp?? and a turbo? not a supercharger?? eh, i guess we will have to see…

what i really hope doesnt happen is that these engines totally bomb and mini is lost in the waves of car manufacturing….
nfo

this is exciting! i've put off replacing my totalled mini until either the new engine S or bmw M 2 series coupe comes out. I'll just have to hit you chicago guys up for a spin in your mini's to get my fix until then! :)
http://users.adelphia.net/~rocketboy/index.html Rocketboy

I'd rather have a mail slot than a hump anyday… Not to mention the advantage of a smooth superchager over a spikey turbo.
chris

what is it with you and the french engines? they're totally reliable. I once stated that I drove a car with PSA-engine before and it was absolutely like a rock in any situation!
Frank

Chris, we haven't had any new French cars sold in the US since 1991. The French totally failed in this market and ultimately abandoned it. I have been to Europe in recent times and seen up close and personal some of the latest Renaults, Citroens and Peugeots. Very nice cars all around. When I lived in South America I had a Renault 4 and a Renault 18 GTL berlina which were pretty solid powertrains for the rough terrain. But why Peugeot is not back into our shores?

Sorry, but for now, French powertrains have a big question mark in terms of durability and reliability simply because latest generations of these engines have not been sold in this country in over a decade.

Please, do not turn this into a personal thing.
http://bridger.us/mini Gabe

I don't think this needs to be a personal thing mainly because I think many Americans share Frank's view points in regards to French cars and powertrains. From my vantage point it's mostly based on the rather embarrassing exit that Peugeot made from these shores over 10 years ago.

Now that being said everything that I have read about both Citroen and Peugeot would indicate that these are now world class automobiles that have every right to demand our respect. But the rub is that respect is going to have to be built up over time.

All that aside I have to admit, personally, I'm very excited about the new powerplants.
Louis Zamudio

A couple of things..My brother lives in Spain and I have driven his Peugeot, These are pretty decent cars…but I dont want a French engine in my MINI…Why buy a Brithis/German car just to have a French engine? Just does not make sense to me.

As for the “Hump” It looks ugly, but I expect that the New MINI will be larger to accomidate the engine and the “Hump” will be gone.
http://bridger.us/mini Gabe

Another thing to consider. This is a joint venture between BMW and PSA. BMW The engine will be manufactured in the UK to BMW's specific specs.
David S.

The statement that BMW heard from the public about their engines having low torque, makes me want to laugh.

If they don't here us about the stumble/yo-yo or the windshields, which we have complained about greatly, what makes you think they are hearing us about the very small issue of low torque.

Keep Dreaming. BMW is getting out of a deal with Mercedes, plain and simple. Money and competition, those are the only two terms BMW knows.
Chris

hey frank, I absolutely don't take this personal ;-) I was just wondering, that's all. and honestly: having no product on the US market doesn't mean that the product itself is bad. you guys should have some patience, I truly believe that the upcoming engines will be great!
Josh

I'd want a DOHC with valiable valve timing. Also an aluminum block could save weight.

On a different note, the 1.3L rotary engine from the Mazda RX-8 would easily fit in the Mini. It puts out 238hp, is very neutral and lightweight, and soars to a 9000rpm redline. Now that would be fun, but it still doesnt solve the low-end torque issue.
Stuart

I'm pretty confident that the new engine will have all the current attributes and more. Plus it'll be a lot lighter. Oh and Peugeot dont go for Honda revvy motor designs, they are handsome at the low down stuff, with a good midrange. Do'nt diss it before you tried it. Chill fellas it'll be fine! Stu
http://bridger.us/mini Gabe

I think we should listen to Stuart on this one – he'd probably be in position to know more than any of us.
Frank

Davis S, I tend to agree with you on BMW wanting to get out of a “bad deal” of co-building engines with rival Daimler-Chrysler. I personally find most of the complaints against the TRITEC engine to be pretty much unfounded and unfair. Truth is the TRITEC is a pretty solid and more proven powerplant than anything PSA can put out today. I remember reading over at MINI2.com that some Peugeot engines tend to blow head gaskets severely (This is what some ex-Peugeot owners in the UK say, so this is pure hearsay).

Having said this, I think that MINIUSA has been pro-active in fixing most of the teething software related issues to date. The stumble was finally been eliminated from the Cooper S (Software version CD 36 available at your dealer now) and some of the idle issues reported in the Cooper/Cooper CVT models. I have 2 MINIs, one a 2002 and the other one, a 4 month old 2004 MCS and neither car has had any windshield related issues. I believe the dreaded “yo-yo”, which my '04 has been virtually free from, is a fix around the corner thanks to Ryan's (over at northamericanmotoring.org) very recent findings that point to a hardware design issue.
JookSingJye

Personally…i just like turbos because of that sound of the blow off =)…im not a Mini Finatic…and I just got my License…but I'm thinking of getting a Mini Cooper…should I get THe MCS thats out right now? Or wait for the Turbo? Someone explain which is more efficient, and which one would be better (with the fact in mind, MINI/BMW might work out the glitches)…
John

I definitely agree with Josh. Why hasn’t anyone tried mating the small powerful rotary with the small mini. Better yet, put it in a classic mini. 238 hp from a 1600 pound car. That could be fun.

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