MINI2's Mixed Reaction to the 2005 MINI

Sections: Uncategorized Sep 7th, 2004 39 Comments

Paul over at MINI2 has a great review of the 2005 Cooper. He asks some tough questions and, while he find the driving experience superb, other conclusions he reaches aren't all positive. Here's an excerpt:

Overall the pros (few but significant) do outweigh the cons for me (many but all quite minor), but I am still concerned for the future of the MINI. I'm worried it will become too dumbed down and diluted in an attempt to pander to as wide an audience as possible, and that special certain something could be lost. But if BMW can pay as close attention to to the overall design and vision of the MINI as they seem to be working on the driving experience, things should be fine.

You can read the entire review here.

MotoringFile Analysis:

Some of the design changes Paul is concerned about were also mentioned on MotoringFile when the car was introduced last year. While he takes it a bit further than I did, I do agree to some extent that the 2005 Cooper has lost a few exterior design touches that were endearing enough to make the car a modern classic. I also agree with some of Paul's thoughts on the interior. An example is the door armrest which now directly comes in contact with my leg while driving and makes the storage almost useless. This means that MINI decided that a subtle driving obstruction was less important than comfort, quite an ideology change really.

I've always thought that the MINI did a good job of instilling motoring values that many US owners historically have been less familiar with. The fact that the car didn't come with an armrest meant that you were suppose to concentrate on driving and not relax like it's a living room sofa. The reason it didn't come with an automatic is that there should be no need for one. And now both of those will be options come January 1 2005. Again, seemingly quite a change of thinking from MINI.

Granted many owners have very valid reasons for both of those options and I certainly don't want to pass judgment on them for the spec they choose. However it does at the very least signal a clear change in thinking in terms of options that are appropriate on the car. The dealers I've spoken to recently are expecting at least 50% of MINI Cooper S US production to now be automatic. That could create a shift in the way the general public sees the MINI and specifically the MCS. Put plainly; street cred is an easy thing to lose.

So do all of these changes signal a shift in the ideology of MINI product development? While I'm somewhat concerned like Paul, I think the answer is both yes and no. It would seem that several of these new features directly answer some of the concerns raised in recent JD Power survey results, something MINI had previously mentioned they'd be working to improve. That being said some of these changes like the MCS automatic or the armrest are optional equipment and easily passed over on the spec sheet.

At the end of the day it's important to remember MINI, as a car company, has to walk a fine line between appealing to the enthusiasts and designing something that panders to the masses. They are, after all in the auto business to make a profit. And as the thrill of seeing a MINI is wearing off so too is the potential of increased sales. MINI is probably approaching some of these spec changes as a necessary evil to keep numbers high until the next generation car arrives. When you consider that dichotomy, it would seem MINI is doing an admirable job with the updates.

Written By: MF Staff

MINIAC

The only thing I can applaud on the 2005 model is the improved gear ratios.
http://www.gbmini.net Ian C.

I guess I am no longer a “MINIac” … when I drove the convertible last week I never noticed the changed door pulls / arm rests, never saw the change pocket, and did not once think of looking for the time … I just enjoyed driving the car!
Rossii

Has anyone noticed how solid the doors for the 05's feel?
Vanwall
Well put, Paul and Gabe. I have my gripes about a lot of detail changes with the '05, some of which parallel Pauls's and yours, and others which are my own views on styling, but overall, the '05 is a mixed blessing – at least they didn't gut the whole MINI feel and look outright. And ror a car that sells at list or better, BMW should thank the heavens, not whine about profits. All things considered, the MINI is still the MINI, the yardstick for others to measure up to, or not. (The latter result seems to be the case, mostly)

The chances of one person being able to make a personal statement as a whole car, are sadly, few and far between. Mr. Stephenson was very lucky, (and damned good! our luck!) to be able to do something akin to Issigonis's original Mini – push through a personal project that reflected his wishes. Issigonis was a quirky fellow with details – no radios, few frills – but was a true small car genius, with a race-bred feeling for handling that he couldn't help but put into the Mini, which was why for an econobox, it was pretty damn quick for the period. Ditto the new MINI, and Frank Stephenson seems to have been the driving force to make the MINI as close a re-creation of the Mini as possible, and I wish he was still calling the shots on it. Hooydonk & Bangle should be forcibly restrained from mucking about with MINI, and BMW should tread lightly in the changes department, unless it's a true mechanical issue. If it ain't broke…..
```
      BCNU,
     Rob in Dago
```
Tom M

I just updated to an '05MCS from an '03 and the small changes, such as the armrest above irks me. The other design blunders I noticed from '03 to '05 are the Clock re-positioning and the corny nintendo like three spoke steering wheel with lack of radio/cd mode functions. Driveablity is far superior to an '03. All in all a very good car.
elmor fudwel

Great article.

I've been considering changing cars and this comes at a good time. I have an '02 MCS and have found 1st and 2nd a little challenging. Surprisingly after two years, I don't feel in sync sometimes with the car. It'll be interesting to hear others experience with some of the changes Paul has mentioned.

I like my car, but so far the driveablity thing being referenced has picked my interest.
ryan

i am afraid the article is a bit over dramatic. the changes are minor, some good, some bad, but in general very very minor. this was and is a great car.
Matt

i just had the opportunity to have some extended time with the 05 Convertible S, thanks Dave and Knauz! i have to echo most of what's been said. it's much more driveable than my current 03 S, less snappy in transitions while remaining taut and controlled, also the engine and transmission are an enormous improvement. elmore, the 05's a revelation.

while i really like the 3 spoke, i'm not thrilled by the multi-function, my current 2 spoke is superior in this regard, Tom i agree. if a 2-spoke were available spec it'd be my choice.

i didn't notice the protruding door arm-rest, perhaps it's just me but i prefer it. it didn't bother my knee (6' 1″, 195 #'s) and i felt it was simple to reach over the arm-rest to access the door bin.

i'm not a fan of the 'storage' beneath the hand brake. i often put my sunglasses on the carpet there and inspite of my 'spirited' (to put it mildly) driving style, i've never dislodged them.

all told, i keep trying to rationalize trading in my current 03 for a JCW 05 and the 05 is winning out over financial responsibility at this point.
http://leftthis.com Dillon

I have to agree with Paul. All in all,MINI has to walk a fine line to apeal to the,”…enthusiasts…and the masses.” After all, they are in the business of making a profit.
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabe

Hey that's my line ;)
Dave

I read in the mini2 article the 05 mini has a digital speedo on the tac? is that standard on american mini coopers or is that for mini's outside of the U.S.
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabe

That's been standard on all MINIs since the '04 model year.
JoeDentist

A lot of people are just hypercritical about any change in the Mini – every car evolves, and the Mini is no exception. I have actually heard people complain that in Chrono Pak equipped cars, there is no digital speedometer in the tach. HELLO – there is a big analog speedometer next to it! This kind of “If I am used to it any change is unacceptable” attitude is a real car killer.

In a car that is 96% exactly the same as last years model, to start talking about “shifts in ideology” is rediculous. To criticise a Convertible if it does not equal the Hatchback in every way is just insane. It has no top, guys. That's the trade off.

Last but not least, to criticise BMW for trying to sell more cars by widening its appeal is the height of snobbery. Its just like the Mustang, Thunderbird, and Datsun 240Z. They will kill it by making it bigger, more comfortable, and less unusual. Thats how cars are designed, built and sold. When it is a ponderous slug, some other car will grab your fancy – accept that life goes on and change is the only thing that is constant.
d.j. derek

I don't know why everybody hates the three spoke wheel, I'm just the opposite. I love the three spoke wheel over the fat two spoke wheel. Which I never felt matched the interior of the car in the first place and anyways, the three spoke looks more retro in design. I also welcome all the new design upgrades for the 2005 models and thought they did a good job… I guess for some it's just a matter of taste.
Robert

I am sure Paul wants to keep things upbeat in this well written review. Though I sill believe that the convertible roof problems should be presented to the buying public. If not in this review, atleasst in an editorial. Having such a flaw in the design should be mentioned. This is and may become a major public relation nightmare for MINI if not fixed. This will I hope will become to the attention of the buying public. And not hidden. as it presently has.
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabe

To my knowledge the Cabrio roof issues were fixed in the latest production. Anyone heard different?
ChrisW

If the '05 revision had been released in '02, and the '02 model was the '05 revision, would everyone be wailing about MINI killing the spirit of MINI with the '05 changes? Probably.

Evolution folks. It's a good thing.

P.S. It's also the way you sell cars.
SrBlanco
Having put 1150 miles on my first MINI in the last 2.5 weeks I must say this is one fantastic car. Sure there are some minor complaints but all in all this car oozes BMW quality. I certainly don't expect perfection considering the price tag but if you compare a MINI to most other cars in its price range it is hands down the best built of the bunch.

It seems like some of you have forgotten what attracted you to the car in the first place. Here is my list in no particular order:
- 90 degree corners at 30MPH
- Center mounted Speedo with built in “Can we please not go 90 on the freeway” alarm
- Supercharged from the factory baby!
- The satisfaction of watching a motorcyclist nearly rear end the car in front of him cause he can't stop staring at your new MINI
- The solid and clearly european thunk when you close the doors
- Self sealing windows
- 6 airbags… standard
- Most importantly: offering up the MINI as proof that you are clearly undercompensating
Perhaps I am still high on new car smell but I think you should all stop nitpicking, make a date with your MINIs and re-kindle the lust that put you behind the driver's seat in the first place.

-m
SrBlanco

Oops… meant to say “in the drivers seat” or “behind the wheel”. Please forgive me. I am still riding that new car smell high.

-m
http://users.adelphia.net/~rocketboy/index.html Rocketboy

Great article, it really touches on a lot of things that us long time MINI owners (is there such a thing? :) ) have been wondering/worried about. I think that we all expected corners to be cut, and the design to change and evolve, and of course we're going to be concerned. As much as we all love our few year old MINIs, I'm sure that some of us will be buying new ones one day, wether they be replacements, or adding to the family, and it's nice to see what we might be in for.

Also, I was always against an automatic MCS, due to the lack of 'street cred'. Really, what sounds nicer, a 6 speed Getrag, or a slushbox?

(I'm also wondering how much I might be able to get for my metal ringed shift knob that I replaced with a custom pool ball long ago. :) )

Erik…
MiniLifeCrisis

What were the Cabrio “roof problems”? I'm very curious as mine is due in a few weeks.

Eric
Robert

I have seen a number of Cabrio Minis and more than a few have had a mark were the hinge is on on the side of the roof. If you would like there are photo's of the same problem that I have seen at the U.S. Mini dealers in Mini2 forums.
elmor fudwel

Umm…New Car Smell!!!

Kinda like “Hot Donuts Now”!!! but less fattening.
elmor fudwel

Or was that “Fresh Donuts Now”?

Hmmm…maybe I should just hop in the Cooper and go and check to see if the sign is on??
Deborah

Can I just say that Paul (who lives in England) is totally off the mark about the sun visor and the gear knob? England is known for gloomy weather, right? Vast portions of the US and other countries have to deal with the hot sun all the time. My gear knob gets so hot in the summer I can barely touch it — I keep meaning to replace it with something that I won't burn myself with every summer and freeze touching every winter (hey, Chicago didn't just get “cool” in the winter!). As for the visor, Americans in every corner of the country need a better visor all summer and for those in southern locales, it's a year round need. We're a sunny country, thank goodness!

Maybe Paul ought to recognize that his needs aren't the only ones out there — neither are mine or anyone elses. I doubt MINI made changes based on solitary complaints — I'm sure only the well-voiced, wide spread, cost effective ones made the grade.

I think the English have another viewpoint as well in that the Mini has a long history with them, whereas in the US it barely registered in the 60's. We don't have the same attachments to the fourty years of Mini history that preceeds our car. Just my opinions…
Mike

JoeDentist, d.j. derek, and SrBlanco, you all said the things I've been dying to find a way to say as clearly as you guys did! I can't believe how much negative response there is for such incredibly minor changes. MINI drivers are perhaps the whiniest people I have ever met! Maybe it's because they get to pick and choose their every option, it selects for a specific subset of the population. ;)
Jason

Deborah, I don't know how familiar you are with Paul and his mini2.com web site, but his opinion is quite well regarded on both sides of the Atlantic. While I understand your point, Paul (as far as I can tell) is not a provincial fellow who has difficulty understanding that other environments call for different features.

That said, I too disagree with the idea that MINIs are taking a drastic turn for the worse. Many of the things that bother Paul are neutral or positive for me, so I read his review not as a neutral assessment of changes but rather as a very personal opinion on the 2005 model year changes.

Perhaps that's what Paul intended and perhaps it's not. Even those who find Paul's review ill-considered and disagree with it should (in my opinion) recognize that Paul's opinions are generally well thought-out and that he has made a great contribution to the MINI owner community (primarily through his site).
Deborah

Jason, while I don't know Paul personally, I have followed MINI2 for several years now. I rarely post there though. I personally prefer NAM. I dislike MINI2's format and it seems very euro-oriented — not that that's a bad thing, just isn't what I'm looking for in a forum.

I didn't mean that Paul's review was ill-considered, but that he was viewing it from a very personal view point and my POV differs. It's hard to understand the written word of someone unless you know them very well. Maybe someday Matt will get emoticons working on here & it will be easier to get when folks are pontificating or just offering “IMHO” remarks (though for some folks that's one in the same – J/K!! LOL). I was just offering my opinion, not trying make Paul seem unworldly. I think he does a great service for the MINI community, I just don't have to agree. : )
elmor fudwel

Please….

No Emoticons.

'nuff said.
ChrisW

Huh??? :| :( :o
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabe

You don't have to worry about emoticons on MotoringFile as long as Matt or I are around! We'll always strive to keep the interface and overall look as clean and simple as possible. No emoticons, no signatures, no forums.
SrBlanco
I have another one to add to the list…
- Having some crazy lady roll down her window, on the freeway, during rush hour, at 40 MPH, and ask you wht kind of gas mileage it gets
-m
dan

I think Paul has some valid points. I owned an '02 Cooper from June '02 to April '04, and would be very curious to drive an '05 just to see & feel the differences. But I can see his thinking – I never had an issue with the following: lack of armrest small cupholders small sunvisors suspension I only mention these items because they were some changes that proved to be controversial to some, while welcomed by others. I knew when I bought the car what I was getting, and I dealt with it. To a certain extent, I feel some of the changes are clearly market driven, while the Getrag 5-speed tranny is not. And I imagine that the market driven changes are what may be ruffling some feathers of the “early adopters” While these changes to the car are not what led me to leave the marque, I can see how some of the subtle changes over time will alter the future MINI from it's original incarnation and give some current owners pause over going into a newer model.
elmor fudwel

My apologies if this is too off topic:

Would someone share the benefits of being an early adopter? I honestly was not aware of the original Mini till I began exploring getting the BMW MINI. Over the past two years of owning my MCS '02, I've learned about the heritage.

Having an '02 has been a challenge as various parts have needed early replacing due to failures. And this concerns me as to the future reliablity of the car….Should I get out of it now?

So I wonder why, as opinions are posted, would I stay in the '02 vs getting into an '05. To me it sounds as if many of the bugs have been worked out. Though due to mechanical nature things will break.

Thoughts?
http://users.adelphia.net/~rocketboy/index.html Rocketboy

Elmor… The 'benefits', I would guess, is having a MINI that's the closest to the origonal design as you can get, before some of the cost-cutting efforts started up. And you get to say that you have a 1st year MCS, which might be worth more money down the road. (notice, the word MIGHT.) Either way, if you're really wondering, the only way to tell is to take a test drive.
elmor fudwel

Thanks for the suggestion, Rocketboy.

I did test a Cooper convertible recently. Granted that is not a fair comparison with a MCS. I'll have to try again and take note of all the changes to see if I want to trade.
Roger

Could anyone please explain why the aqua body color shown in the article photos does not show up in the MINIUSA configurator options? I've seen that striking color “in the wild” only once or twice here in L.A., and assumed it was a discontinued color from an earlier year – but there it is on an 05! What is the story?
jon

05=BEST MINI TO DATE. But I have to agree with the idea that there are ideological shifts occuring. Any design project will suffer without the clear and consistent direction and vision of an “author.” “Design by Committee” has always been, and always will be, the death of design. As well as focus groups and politics. A great example is the reconstruction efforts at Ground Zero. Daniel Libeskind's vision has been reduced to nothing. More now than ever, if I may use that trendy phrase, design is the name of the game. Look at J Mays. That man is leading the revolution in automotive design. Has anyone sat in the 05 mustang GT? Now that is powerful design; it blows the mini cooper's interior out of the water. It's about vision, and Mini's may be suffering. If they don't stick to their guns, other cars, like the SMART car will steal the show. Because they are TOTAL DESIGN concepts. Like the Audii TT, cars that manifest true, singular vision and integrity will be the ones we remember. So, I'd personally like to see our beloved brand adhere to it's roots and put driving over convenience. On that note, I'd like to ask this: who really cares about cup holders in their minis? I don't plan on driving my mini through a Micky D's to super size anything! The only thing I want to super size is my pulse rate when I'm pulling G's around a hairpin! I don't need to fit a BIG GULP at arm's length anytime, anwhere. The only BIG GULPS in my car will be before passing semi trucks on I-5 going 125mph. Any discussion around the size of this car's cup holder is totally laughable. OH, my latte won't fit? Give me a break! The reason why we're seeing these “comfort” changes (ie. cup holder, armrest, storage, etc.) is because too many lazy, snobby, overweight Americans are complaining. What I say to those who think their cup holders are too small: buy a ford focus next time! And what I say to BMW/MINI: let the designers do their jobs!
Andy

Perhaps I have a unique perspective here because I was originally due to buy one two years ago then got a company car – My time finally came but this summer I waited for the changes and was pleased with all of them, bar none.

The words Molehill and Mountain spring to mind (wait until they see the new 5-door long wheelbase Mini!!)

First, lets get things into perspective: the changes are MINImal (sorry) and to suggest that the cars “soul” is in danger is ludicrous – it hasnt changed into a Ford Focus overnight!

As for the guy who didn't rate the new 3-spoke steering wheel because his 2 spoke had a mode button on the multifunction and was therefore “superior” in this regard was laughable – I think it's called an option because you don't have to HAVE it

In Paul's original article he waxed lyrical, criticising things like; the side sun visor, the new CD/radio (which btw plays all my MP3's now – 130 tracks to each CD!) the gear knob and the 3-section dashboard. Paul, you really need to get out more !!

The car has a much better gearbox, drives better and looks a lot fresher with the new lights/bumpers etc.

Seems to me that BMW listened to their customers and gave them good service. I suppose there are some people would wish that they never stopped making the old Mini. Well, the old one is still there for you guys….

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