Comments on: MINI2's Mixed Reaction to the 2005 MINI http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/ MotoringFile | MINI news, reviews and opinion. MINI Cooper, Cooper S, Clubman, Countryman Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:14:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Andy http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10476 Andy Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:23:34 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10476 <p>Perhaps I have a unique perspective here because I was originally due to buy one two years ago then got a company car - My time finally came but this summer I <em>waited</em> for the changes and was pleased with all of them, bar none.</p> <p>The words Molehill and Mountain spring to mind (wait until they see the new 5-door long wheelbase Mini!!)</p> <p>First, lets get things into perspective: the changes are MINImal (sorry) and to suggest that the cars "soul" is in danger is ludicrous - it hasnt changed into a Ford Focus overnight!</p> <p>As for the guy who didn't rate the new 3-spoke steering wheel because his 2 spoke had a mode button on the multifunction and was therefore "superior" in this regard was laughable - I think it's called an option because you don't have to HAVE it</p> <p>In Paul's original article he waxed lyrical, criticising things like; the side sun visor, the new CD/radio (which btw plays all my MP3's now - 130 tracks to each CD!) the gear knob and the 3-section dashboard. Paul, you really need to get out more !!</p> <p>The car has a much better gearbox, drives better and looks a lot fresher with the new lights/bumpers etc. </p> <p>Seems to me that BMW listened to their customers and gave them good service. I suppose there are some people would wish that they never stopped making the old Mini. Well, the old one is still there for you guys....</p> Perhaps I have a unique perspective here because I was originally due to buy one two years ago then got a company car – My time finally came but this summer I waited for the changes and was pleased with all of them, bar none.

The words Molehill and Mountain spring to mind (wait until they see the new 5-door long wheelbase Mini!!)

First, lets get things into perspective: the changes are MINImal (sorry) and to suggest that the cars “soul” is in danger is ludicrous – it hasnt changed into a Ford Focus overnight!

As for the guy who didn't rate the new 3-spoke steering wheel because his 2 spoke had a mode button on the multifunction and was therefore “superior” in this regard was laughable – I think it's called an option because you don't have to HAVE it

In Paul's original article he waxed lyrical, criticising things like; the side sun visor, the new CD/radio (which btw plays all my MP3's now – 130 tracks to each CD!) the gear knob and the 3-section dashboard. Paul, you really need to get out more !!

The car has a much better gearbox, drives better and looks a lot fresher with the new lights/bumpers etc.

Seems to me that BMW listened to their customers and gave them good service. I suppose there are some people would wish that they never stopped making the old Mini. Well, the old one is still there for you guys….

]]> By: jon http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10475 jon Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:01:55 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10475 <p>05=BEST MINI TO DATE. But I have to agree with the idea that there are ideological shifts occuring. Any design project will suffer without the clear and consistent direction and vision of an "author." "Design by Committee" has always been, and always will be, the death of design. As well as focus groups and politics. A great example is the reconstruction efforts at Ground Zero. Daniel Libeskind's vision has been reduced to nothing. More now than ever, if I may use that trendy phrase, design is the name of the game. Look at J Mays. That man is leading the revolution in automotive design. Has anyone sat in the 05 mustang GT? Now that is powerful design; it blows the mini cooper's interior out of the water. It's about vision, and Mini's may be suffering. If they don't stick to their guns, other cars, like the SMART car will steal the show. Because they are TOTAL DESIGN concepts. Like the Audii TT, cars that manifest true, singular vision and integrity will be the ones we remember. So, I'd personally like to see our beloved brand adhere to it's roots and put driving over convenience. On that note, I'd like to ask this: who really cares about cup holders in their minis? I don't plan on driving my mini through a Micky D's to super size anything! The only thing I want to super size is my pulse rate when I'm pulling G's around a hairpin! I don't need to fit a BIG GULP at arm's length anytime, anwhere. The only BIG GULPS in my car will be before passing semi trucks on I-5 going 125mph. Any discussion around the size of this car's cup holder is totally laughable. OH, my latte won't fit? Give me a break! The reason why we're seeing these "comfort" changes (ie. cup holder, armrest, storage, etc.) is because too many lazy, snobby, overweight Americans are complaining. What I say to those who think their cup holders are too small: buy a ford focus next time! And what I say to BMW/MINI: let the designers do their jobs!</p> 05=BEST MINI TO DATE. But I have to agree with the idea that there are ideological shifts occuring. Any design project will suffer without the clear and consistent direction and vision of an “author.” “Design by Committee” has always been, and always will be, the death of design. As well as focus groups and politics. A great example is the reconstruction efforts at Ground Zero. Daniel Libeskind's vision has been reduced to nothing. More now than ever, if I may use that trendy phrase, design is the name of the game. Look at J Mays. That man is leading the revolution in automotive design. Has anyone sat in the 05 mustang GT? Now that is powerful design; it blows the mini cooper's interior out of the water. It's about vision, and Mini's may be suffering. If they don't stick to their guns, other cars, like the SMART car will steal the show. Because they are TOTAL DESIGN concepts. Like the Audii TT, cars that manifest true, singular vision and integrity will be the ones we remember. So, I'd personally like to see our beloved brand adhere to it's roots and put driving over convenience. On that note, I'd like to ask this: who really cares about cup holders in their minis? I don't plan on driving my mini through a Micky D's to super size anything! The only thing I want to super size is my pulse rate when I'm pulling G's around a hairpin! I don't need to fit a BIG GULP at arm's length anytime, anwhere. The only BIG GULPS in my car will be before passing semi trucks on I-5 going 125mph. Any discussion around the size of this car's cup holder is totally laughable. OH, my latte won't fit? Give me a break! The reason why we're seeing these “comfort” changes (ie. cup holder, armrest, storage, etc.) is because too many lazy, snobby, overweight Americans are complaining. What I say to those who think their cup holders are too small: buy a ford focus next time! And what I say to BMW/MINI: let the designers do their jobs!

]]> By: Roger http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10474 Roger Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:02:45 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10474 <p>Could anyone please explain why the aqua body color shown in the article photos does not show up in the MINIUSA configurator options? I've seen that striking color "in the wild" only once or twice here in L.A., and assumed it was a discontinued color from an earlier year - but there it is on an 05! What is the story?</p> Could anyone please explain why the aqua body color shown in the article photos does not show up in the MINIUSA configurator options? I've seen that striking color “in the wild” only once or twice here in L.A., and assumed it was a discontinued color from an earlier year – but there it is on an 05! What is the story?

]]> By: elmor fudwel http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10473 elmor fudwel Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:53:40 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10473 <p>Thanks for the suggestion, Rocketboy.</p> <p>I did test a Cooper convertible recently. Granted that is not a fair comparison with a MCS. I'll have to try again and take note of all the changes to see if I want to trade.</p> Thanks for the suggestion, Rocketboy.

I did test a Cooper convertible recently. Granted that is not a fair comparison with a MCS. I'll have to try again and take note of all the changes to see if I want to trade.

]]> By: Rocketboy http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10472 Rocketboy Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:43:43 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10472 <p>Elmor... The 'benefits', I would guess, is having a MINI that's the closest to the origonal design as you can get, before some of the cost-cutting efforts started up. And you get to say that you have a 1st year MCS, which might be worth more money down the road. (notice, the word MIGHT.) Either way, if you're really wondering, the only way to tell is to take a test drive.</p> Elmor… The 'benefits', I would guess, is having a MINI that's the closest to the origonal design as you can get, before some of the cost-cutting efforts started up. And you get to say that you have a 1st year MCS, which might be worth more money down the road. (notice, the word MIGHT.) Either way, if you're really wondering, the only way to tell is to take a test drive.

]]> By: elmor fudwel http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10471 elmor fudwel Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:55:08 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10471 <p>My apologies if this is too off topic:</p> <p>Would someone share the benefits of being an early adopter? I honestly was not aware of the original Mini till I began exploring getting the BMW MINI. Over the past two years of owning my MCS '02, I've learned about the heritage.</p> <p>Having an '02 has been a challenge as various parts have needed early replacing due to failures. And this concerns me as to the future reliablity of the car....Should I get out of it now?</p> <p>So I wonder why, as opinions are posted, would I stay in the '02 vs getting into an '05. To me it sounds as if many of the bugs have been worked out. Though due to mechanical nature things will break.</p> <p>Thoughts?</p> My apologies if this is too off topic:

Would someone share the benefits of being an early adopter? I honestly was not aware of the original Mini till I began exploring getting the BMW MINI. Over the past two years of owning my MCS '02, I've learned about the heritage.

Having an '02 has been a challenge as various parts have needed early replacing due to failures. And this concerns me as to the future reliablity of the car….Should I get out of it now?

So I wonder why, as opinions are posted, would I stay in the '02 vs getting into an '05. To me it sounds as if many of the bugs have been worked out. Though due to mechanical nature things will break.

Thoughts?

]]> By: dan http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10470 dan Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:11:25 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10470 <p>I think Paul has some valid points. I owned an '02 Cooper from June '02 to April '04, and would be very curious to drive an '05 just to see & feel the differences. But I can see his thinking - I never had an issue with the following: lack of armrest small cupholders small sunvisors suspension I only mention these items because they were some changes that proved to be controversial to some, while welcomed by others. I knew when I bought the car what I was getting, and I dealt with it. To a certain extent, I feel some of the changes are clearly market driven, while the Getrag 5-speed tranny is not. And I imagine that the market driven changes are what may be ruffling some feathers of the "early adopters" While these changes to the car are not what led me to leave the marque, I can see how some of the subtle changes over time will alter the future MINI from it's original incarnation and give some current owners pause over going into a newer model.</p> I think Paul has some valid points. I owned an '02 Cooper from June '02 to April '04, and would be very curious to drive an '05 just to see & feel the differences. But I can see his thinking – I never had an issue with the following: lack of armrest small cupholders small sunvisors suspension I only mention these items because they were some changes that proved to be controversial to some, while welcomed by others. I knew when I bought the car what I was getting, and I dealt with it. To a certain extent, I feel some of the changes are clearly market driven, while the Getrag 5-speed tranny is not. And I imagine that the market driven changes are what may be ruffling some feathers of the “early adopters” While these changes to the car are not what led me to leave the marque, I can see how some of the subtle changes over time will alter the future MINI from it's original incarnation and give some current owners pause over going into a newer model.

]]> By: SrBlanco http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10469 SrBlanco Thu, 09 Sep 2004 02:40:16 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10469 <p>I have another one to add to the list...</p> <ul> <li>Having some crazy lady roll down her window, on the freeway, during rush hour, at 40 MPH, and ask you wht kind of gas mileage it gets</li> </ul> <p>-m</p> I have another one to add to the list…

  • Having some crazy lady roll down her window, on the freeway, during rush hour, at 40 MPH, and ask you wht kind of gas mileage it gets

-m

]]> By: Gabe http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10468 Gabe Thu, 09 Sep 2004 01:26:10 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10468 <p>You don't have to worry about emoticons on MotoringFile as long as Matt or I are around! We'll always strive to keep the interface and overall look as clean and simple as possible. No emoticons, no signatures, no forums.</p> You don't have to worry about emoticons on MotoringFile as long as Matt or I are around! We'll always strive to keep the interface and overall look as clean and simple as possible. No emoticons, no signatures, no forums.

]]> By: ChrisW http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10467 ChrisW Thu, 09 Sep 2004 00:54:47 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10467 <p>Huh??? :| :( :o</p> Huh??? :| :( :o

]]> By: elmor fudwel http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10466 elmor fudwel Wed, 08 Sep 2004 23:15:15 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10466 <p>Please....</p> <p>No Emoticons. </p> <p>'nuff said.</p> Please….

No Emoticons.

'nuff said.

]]> By: Deborah http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10465 Deborah Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:54:58 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10465 <p>Jason, while I don't know Paul personally, I have followed MINI2 for several years now. I rarely post there though. I personally prefer NAM. I dislike MINI2's format and it seems very euro-oriented -- not that that's a bad thing, just isn't what I'm looking for in a forum.</p> <p>I didn't mean that Paul's review was ill-considered, but that he was viewing it from a very personal view point and my POV differs. It's hard to understand the written word of someone unless you know them very well. Maybe someday Matt will get emoticons working on here & it will be easier to get when folks are pontificating or just offering "IMHO" remarks (though for some folks that's one in the same - J/K!! LOL). I was just offering my opinion, not trying make Paul seem unworldly. I think he does a great service for the MINI community, I just don't have to agree. : )</p> Jason, while I don't know Paul personally, I have followed MINI2 for several years now. I rarely post there though. I personally prefer NAM. I dislike MINI2's format and it seems very euro-oriented — not that that's a bad thing, just isn't what I'm looking for in a forum.

I didn't mean that Paul's review was ill-considered, but that he was viewing it from a very personal view point and my POV differs. It's hard to understand the written word of someone unless you know them very well. Maybe someday Matt will get emoticons working on here & it will be easier to get when folks are pontificating or just offering “IMHO” remarks (though for some folks that's one in the same – J/K!! LOL). I was just offering my opinion, not trying make Paul seem unworldly. I think he does a great service for the MINI community, I just don't have to agree. : )

]]> By: Jason http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10464 Jason Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:25:13 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10464 <p>Deborah, I don't know how familiar you are with Paul and his mini2.com web site, but his opinion is quite well regarded on both sides of the Atlantic. While I understand your point, Paul (as far as I can tell) is not a provincial fellow who has difficulty understanding that other environments call for different features.</p> <p>That said, I too disagree with the idea that MINIs are taking a drastic turn for the worse. Many of the things that bother Paul are neutral or positive for me, so I read his review not as a neutral assessment of changes but rather as a very personal opinion on the 2005 model year changes.</p> <p>Perhaps that's what Paul intended and perhaps it's not. Even those who find Paul's review ill-considered and disagree with it should (in my opinion) recognize that Paul's opinions are generally well thought-out and that he has made a great contribution to the MINI owner community (primarily through his site).</p> Deborah, I don't know how familiar you are with Paul and his mini2.com web site, but his opinion is quite well regarded on both sides of the Atlantic. While I understand your point, Paul (as far as I can tell) is not a provincial fellow who has difficulty understanding that other environments call for different features.

That said, I too disagree with the idea that MINIs are taking a drastic turn for the worse. Many of the things that bother Paul are neutral or positive for me, so I read his review not as a neutral assessment of changes but rather as a very personal opinion on the 2005 model year changes.

Perhaps that's what Paul intended and perhaps it's not. Even those who find Paul's review ill-considered and disagree with it should (in my opinion) recognize that Paul's opinions are generally well thought-out and that he has made a great contribution to the MINI owner community (primarily through his site).

]]> By: Mike http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10463 Mike Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:35:19 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10463 <p>JoeDentist, d.j. derek, and SrBlanco, you all said the things I've been dying to find a way to say as clearly as you guys did! I can't believe how much negative response there is for such incredibly minor changes. MINI drivers are perhaps the whiniest people I have ever met! Maybe it's because they get to pick and choose their every option, it selects for a specific subset of the population. ;)</p> JoeDentist, d.j. derek, and SrBlanco, you all said the things I've been dying to find a way to say as clearly as you guys did! I can't believe how much negative response there is for such incredibly minor changes. MINI drivers are perhaps the whiniest people I have ever met! Maybe it's because they get to pick and choose their every option, it selects for a specific subset of the population. ;)

]]> By: Deborah http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10462 Deborah Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:10:25 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10462 <p>Can I just say that Paul (who lives in England) is totally off the mark about the sun visor and the gear knob? England is known for gloomy weather, right? Vast portions of the US and other countries have to deal with the hot sun all the time. My gear knob gets so hot in the summer I can barely touch it -- I keep meaning to replace it with something that I won't burn myself with every summer and freeze touching every winter (hey, Chicago didn't just get "cool" in the winter!). As for the visor, Americans in every corner of the country need a better visor all summer and for those in southern locales, it's a year round need. We're a sunny country, thank goodness!</p> <p>Maybe Paul ought to recognize that his needs aren't the only ones out there -- neither are mine or anyone elses. I doubt MINI made changes based on solitary complaints -- I'm sure only the well-voiced, wide spread, cost effective ones made the grade.</p> <p>I think the English have another viewpoint as well in that the Mini has a long history with them, whereas in the US it barely registered in the 60's. We don't have the same attachments to the fourty years of Mini history that preceeds our car. Just my opinions...</p> Can I just say that Paul (who lives in England) is totally off the mark about the sun visor and the gear knob? England is known for gloomy weather, right? Vast portions of the US and other countries have to deal with the hot sun all the time. My gear knob gets so hot in the summer I can barely touch it — I keep meaning to replace it with something that I won't burn myself with every summer and freeze touching every winter (hey, Chicago didn't just get “cool” in the winter!). As for the visor, Americans in every corner of the country need a better visor all summer and for those in southern locales, it's a year round need. We're a sunny country, thank goodness!

Maybe Paul ought to recognize that his needs aren't the only ones out there — neither are mine or anyone elses. I doubt MINI made changes based on solitary complaints — I'm sure only the well-voiced, wide spread, cost effective ones made the grade.

I think the English have another viewpoint as well in that the Mini has a long history with them, whereas in the US it barely registered in the 60's. We don't have the same attachments to the fourty years of Mini history that preceeds our car. Just my opinions…

]]> By: elmor fudwel http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10461 elmor fudwel Wed, 08 Sep 2004 15:00:54 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10461 <p>Or was that "Fresh Donuts Now"?</p> <p>Hmmm...maybe I should just hop in the Cooper and go and check to see if the sign is on??</p> Or was that “Fresh Donuts Now”?

Hmmm…maybe I should just hop in the Cooper and go and check to see if the sign is on??

]]> By: elmor fudwel http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10460 elmor fudwel Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:56:33 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10460 <p>Umm...New Car Smell!!!</p> <p>Kinda like "Hot Donuts Now"!!! but less fattening.</p> Umm…New Car Smell!!!

Kinda like “Hot Donuts Now”!!! but less fattening.

]]> By: Robert http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10459 Robert Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:42:04 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10459 <p>I have seen a number of Cabrio Minis and more than a few have had a mark were the hinge is on on the side of the roof. If you would like there are photo's of the same problem that I have seen at the U.S. Mini dealers in Mini2 forums.</p> I have seen a number of Cabrio Minis and more than a few have had a mark were the hinge is on on the side of the roof. If you would like there are photo's of the same problem that I have seen at the U.S. Mini dealers in Mini2 forums.

]]> By: MiniLifeCrisis http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10458 MiniLifeCrisis Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:29:23 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10458 <p>What were the Cabrio "roof problems"? I'm very curious as mine is due in a few weeks.</p> <p>Eric</p> What were the Cabrio “roof problems”? I'm very curious as mine is due in a few weeks.

Eric

]]> By: Rocketboy http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/07/mini2s_mixed_reaction_to_the_2005_mini/comment-page-1/#comment-10457 Rocketboy Wed, 08 Sep 2004 08:32:49 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/09/07/#comment-10457 <p>Great article, it really touches on a lot of things that us long time MINI owners (is there such a thing? :) ) have been wondering/worried about. I think that we all expected corners to be cut, and the design to change and evolve, and of course we're going to be concerned. As much as we all love our few year old MINIs, I'm sure that some of us will be buying new ones one day, wether they be replacements, or adding to the family, and it's nice to see what we might be in for.</p> <p>Also, I was always against an automatic MCS, due to the lack of 'street cred'. Really, what sounds nicer, a 6 speed Getrag, or a slushbox?</p> <p>(I'm also wondering how much I might be able to get for my metal ringed shift knob that I replaced with a custom pool ball long ago. :) )</p> <p>Erik...</p> Great article, it really touches on a lot of things that us long time MINI owners (is there such a thing? :) ) have been wondering/worried about. I think that we all expected corners to be cut, and the design to change and evolve, and of course we're going to be concerned. As much as we all love our few year old MINIs, I'm sure that some of us will be buying new ones one day, wether they be replacements, or adding to the family, and it's nice to see what we might be in for.

Also, I was always against an automatic MCS, due to the lack of 'street cred'. Really, what sounds nicer, a 6 speed Getrag, or a slushbox?

(I'm also wondering how much I might be able to get for my metal ringed shift knob that I replaced with a custom pool ball long ago. :) )

Erik…

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