Comments on: Car & Driver Recap Its Longterm MCS http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/ MotoringFile | MINI news, reviews and opinion. MINI Cooper, Cooper S, Clubman, Countryman Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:14:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: michael http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11984 michael Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:12:50 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11984 <p>Gabe -</p> <p>No obsene language was used in any of my posts.</p> <p>By 'language' I assume a user who goes by 'RB' on this board didn't like the first three letters of the word 'japanese' being used to describe the country of origin for an automobile. So much for freedom of expression. It's a commonly used term and wasn't meant to be slant.</p> <p>Gimme a break...geez!</p> Gabe -

No obsene language was used in any of my posts.

By 'language' I assume a user who goes by 'RB' on this board didn't like the first three letters of the word 'japanese' being used to describe the country of origin for an automobile. So much for freedom of expression. It's a commonly used term and wasn't meant to be slant.

Gimme a break…geez!

]]> By: Gabe http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11983 Gabe Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:15:34 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11983 <p>A few posts were removed due to complaints about language etc. </p> <p>Let's try to keep it clean gents...</p> A few posts were removed due to complaints about language etc.

Let's try to keep it clean gents…

]]> By: Melanie http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11982 Melanie Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:48:24 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11982 <p>Gabe, Thanks for directing me to that archive. Helpful info. Does anyone have any comments on which type of tire is worse with respect to tramlining? run-flats vs. non-RF?</p> <p>BTW, this is OT - and hopefully not taken as a personal plug for eBay, which it isn't - BUT, if any of you size 10-feet guys want a pair of the Mini Motion driving shoe by PUMA, there were a pair just posted on Ebay for 93 bucks, buy-it-now (search under PUMA MINI COOPER). The same seller sold another pair last night, they got snapped up about an hour after posting!</p> Gabe, Thanks for directing me to that archive. Helpful info. Does anyone have any comments on which type of tire is worse with respect to tramlining? run-flats vs. non-RF?

BTW, this is OT – and hopefully not taken as a personal plug for eBay, which it isn't – BUT, if any of you size 10-feet guys want a pair of the Mini Motion driving shoe by PUMA, there were a pair just posted on Ebay for 93 bucks, buy-it-now (search under PUMA MINI COOPER). The same seller sold another pair last night, they got snapped up about an hour after posting!

]]> By: michael Boice http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11981 michael Boice Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:53:14 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11981 <p>HEY! Look at all the attention we're getting! </p> <p>My basic problem with any car magazine testing vehicles is a lack of real comparison context; I've been thinking about this for a while too. A base line for the best vehicle (a moving target) needs to be established every year. The baseline should include objective and subjective information. Then, there needs to be some way for scaling any car's performance against the benchmark car. Optomistaclly thinking, then, comments and comparisons will be made along side the benchmark car eliminating, hopefully, rogue and untrue comments.</p> HEY! Look at all the attention we're getting!

My basic problem with any car magazine testing vehicles is a lack of real comparison context; I've been thinking about this for a while too. A base line for the best vehicle (a moving target) needs to be established every year. The baseline should include objective and subjective information. Then, there needs to be some way for scaling any car's performance against the benchmark car. Optomistaclly thinking, then, comments and comparisons will be made along side the benchmark car eliminating, hopefully, rogue and untrue comments.

]]> By: Michael S. http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11980 Michael S. Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:16:11 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11980 <p>Ack, must we tear John Phillips apart over one comment in the logbook? When you drive a car for 40,000 miles, you're bound to have some bad days and annoyances. Frankly, I find C/D to be one of the 'better' magazines that incorporate driving fun and automotive enthusiasm into their reviews.</p> Ack, must we tear John Phillips apart over one comment in the logbook? When you drive a car for 40,000 miles, you're bound to have some bad days and annoyances. Frankly, I find C/D to be one of the 'better' magazines that incorporate driving fun and automotive enthusiasm into their reviews.

]]> By: Gabe http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11979 Gabe Sat, 16 Oct 2004 05:28:05 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11979 <p>I really don't see any problem with calling John Philips on these comments. Many of us don't agree with them and we're happy to explain why. How that's childish I don't know. </p> <p>TJKonarski put it well... "MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit." </p> <p>Of course we also strive to make it a place where opinions are welcome and where the environment is open to different ideas. </p> <p>Oh and MotoringFile isn't a forum - it's a News site and/or Weblog :) Sorry just my little pet peeve :)</p> <p>Anyway please carry on with the conversation....</p> I really don't see any problem with calling John Philips on these comments. Many of us don't agree with them and we're happy to explain why. How that's childish I don't know.

TJKonarski put it well… “MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit.”

Of course we also strive to make it a place where opinions are welcome and where the environment is open to different ideas.

Oh and MotoringFile isn't a forum – it's a News site and/or Weblog :) Sorry just my little pet peeve :)

Anyway please carry on with the conversation….

]]> By: Gabe http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11978 Gabe Sat, 16 Oct 2004 05:26:30 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11978 <p>Here are my thoughts on runflats from a year ago: <a href="http://www.motoringfile.com/2003/08/29/NewflashRunflatsAreHarsh">News Flash: Runflats are Harsh</a>.</p> Here are my thoughts on runflats from a year ago: News Flash: Runflats are Harsh.

]]> By: Melanie http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11977 Melanie Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:55:37 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11977 <p>Sorry, wrong site - the one I meant was the British-based Mini forum, www.mini2.com. If you click on "forum" on the bottom of the home page, there are tons of topics to read comments about.</p> Sorry, wrong site – the one I meant was the British-based Mini forum, http://www.mini2.com. If you click on “forum” on the bottom of the home page, there are tons of topics to read comments about.

]]> By: Melanie http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11976 Melanie Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:50:50 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11976 <p>Thanks for the comments, guys. I found a good resource to be the Morth American Motoring site, it has a ton of comments from drivers all over the world about "wheels and tyres". From skimming a number of the posts, it seems that the majority of drivers ended up switching from run-flats to non-run flats, because 1) the ride improved without the stiff sidewalls of the RFs, 2) tire wear was better (tires lasted longer)and 3) non RFs were WAY cheaper to replace and easier to find in a pinch. In lieu of having a spare, many said they carry a can of Fix a Flat (and some even carry a compressor in addition).</p> <p>Per my order form and website, it states that the 17 inch 5 spoke bullet wheels come with "performance" tires. No mention of them being run-flats. Does anyone know what brand of tires come with these wheels? Are they NON run-flats, as the website implies? If so, I am going to keep the 17 inch and go with them for a while, and if I still can't stand the bumps, change to 16 inch wheels. I have a feeling that the change to non RFs will be sufficient improvement, tho.</p> Thanks for the comments, guys. I found a good resource to be the Morth American Motoring site, it has a ton of comments from drivers all over the world about “wheels and tyres”. From skimming a number of the posts, it seems that the majority of drivers ended up switching from run-flats to non-run flats, because 1) the ride improved without the stiff sidewalls of the RFs, 2) tire wear was better (tires lasted longer)and 3) non RFs were WAY cheaper to replace and easier to find in a pinch. In lieu of having a spare, many said they carry a can of Fix a Flat (and some even carry a compressor in addition).

Per my order form and website, it states that the 17 inch 5 spoke bullet wheels come with “performance” tires. No mention of them being run-flats. Does anyone know what brand of tires come with these wheels? Are they NON run-flats, as the website implies? If so, I am going to keep the 17 inch and go with them for a while, and if I still can't stand the bumps, change to 16 inch wheels. I have a feeling that the change to non RFs will be sufficient improvement, tho.

]]> By: Dami http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11975 Dami Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:09:02 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11975 <p>I'm telling ya, that John Philips dude just came off some big-a$$ american sedan with big-a$$ V8 or some other luxury car with lots of low-end torque to say that MINI is torpid and that ride is pathetic. Also, when I was reading articles for my girlfriends new 2004 Toyota Solara V6, some guy just fot off 2004 Audi R6 and (of course) he said that Solara sucked - "bad rebound car", as he called it. Well of course, comparing a $21K car to whatm $60-70K? Suure it's cheaper made and less power and everything. So I guess it's same here.</p> <p>We're all MINI fans here, otherwise we wouldn't reed the motoringfile.com, right? :) So we cut some slack for the car. Personally I tell everyone that the ride is too stiff and I hope some of it will go away when I replace tires next spring. Second, all the interior (trunk and back panel especially) scratches way too easy. Other than that, car is perfect. </p> <p>And, I'm "working" on my economy mode now, shifting up at about 2K RPM, trying to keep 6th gear as long as possible. So far, I'm getting 35.1MPG on OBC right now (probably about 32MPB real) on my 2004 MCS!!</p> I'm telling ya, that John Philips dude just came off some big-a$$ american sedan with big-a$$ V8 or some other luxury car with lots of low-end torque to say that MINI is torpid and that ride is pathetic. Also, when I was reading articles for my girlfriends new 2004 Toyota Solara V6, some guy just fot off 2004 Audi R6 and (of course) he said that Solara sucked – “bad rebound car”, as he called it. Well of course, comparing a $21K car to whatm $60-70K? Suure it's cheaper made and less power and everything. So I guess it's same here.

We're all MINI fans here, otherwise we wouldn't reed the motoringfile.com, right? :) So we cut some slack for the car. Personally I tell everyone that the ride is too stiff and I hope some of it will go away when I replace tires next spring. Second, all the interior (trunk and back panel especially) scratches way too easy. Other than that, car is perfect.

And, I'm “working” on my economy mode now, shifting up at about 2K RPM, trying to keep 6th gear as long as possible. So far, I'm getting 35.1MPG on OBC right now (probably about 32MPB real) on my 2004 MCS!!

]]> By: Jerry Bradbury http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11974 Jerry Bradbury Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:58:48 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11974 <p>Shaz: Right arm, citizen!</p> <p>LSD is the only thing I wish I had. After I bump the kit to 210, the need will be even more urgent. But it won't retrofit on my '04 :-(</p> Shaz: Right arm, citizen!

LSD is the only thing I wish I had. After I bump the kit to 210, the need will be even more urgent. But it won't retrofit on my '04 :-(

]]> By: TJKonarski http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11973 TJKonarski Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:53:43 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11973 <p>That's a bit hypocritical, Shazam. We responded with personal opinions to what C&D wrote. You responding to what we wrote is the same thing, really. </p> <p>When something is printed in an international publication for everyone to be exposed to -- and what is written is based more on opion than fact -- it's bound to have reverberation that goes on and on.</p> <p>However, the difference here on MotoringFile is that this is a small forum viewed mostly by a select group -- The owner's of MINI's. C&D, on the other hand, is an international publication and is read by many more people in several countries and most of their readers probably have never had actual hands-on experience with a MINI.</p> <p>So my point?... MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit. It just goes with the territory.</p> That's a bit hypocritical, Shazam. We responded with personal opinions to what C&D wrote. You responding to what we wrote is the same thing, really.

When something is printed in an international publication for everyone to be exposed to — and what is written is based more on opion than fact — it's bound to have reverberation that goes on and on.

However, the difference here on MotoringFile is that this is a small forum viewed mostly by a select group — The owner's of MINI's. C&D, on the other hand, is an international publication and is read by many more people in several countries and most of their readers probably have never had actual hands-on experience with a MINI.

So my point?… MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit. It just goes with the territory.

]]> By: Shazam http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11972 Shazam Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:17:51 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11972 <p>Going through these comments I starting asking myself, what's the average age of this bunch, 16? You're not showing much confidence in your choice of automobiles, just like a teenager. I agree with David K., take it easy. The review in C and D was not a bad one by any means, a bad review is when the lead photo shows the subject car in front of a junkyard (don't laugh, said C and D mag. did that once back in the sixties, yes I'm that old). The point is, if you like the car, if it's fun to drive, if you enjoy owning it, who gives two shits if some wag in a car magizine makes a comment that you don't like. I'm going to order an '05 MCS (waiting for the LSD to become availible), and I'm going to be 58 my next b-day. Go motor, enjoy yourself!</p> Going through these comments I starting asking myself, what's the average age of this bunch, 16? You're not showing much confidence in your choice of automobiles, just like a teenager. I agree with David K., take it easy. The review in C and D was not a bad one by any means, a bad review is when the lead photo shows the subject car in front of a junkyard (don't laugh, said C and D mag. did that once back in the sixties, yes I'm that old). The point is, if you like the car, if it's fun to drive, if you enjoy owning it, who gives two shits if some wag in a car magizine makes a comment that you don't like. I'm going to order an '05 MCS (waiting for the LSD to become availible), and I'm going to be 58 my next b-day. Go motor, enjoy yourself!

]]> By: jarrett http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11971 jarrett Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:12:03 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11971 <p>The comments about the sun roof are lame. I survived this summer in Louisiana 93 degree avg temps with 80%+ humidity. The sunroof actually cools the car by letting the excess heat out when</p> The comments about the sun roof are lame. I survived this summer in Louisiana 93 degree avg temps with 80%+ humidity. The sunroof actually cools the car by letting the excess heat out when

]]> By: GSKChicago http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-2/#comment-11970 GSKChicago Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:55:06 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11970 <p>Gabe... Any thought on doing a post where readers recommend their favorite car wash and give an address, etc so all others in and around those areas can benefit? If I'm being a dork, sorry.</p> Gabe… Any thought on doing a post where readers recommend their favorite car wash and give an address, etc so all others in and around those areas can benefit? If I'm being a dork, sorry.

]]> By: TJKonarski http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-1/#comment-11969 TJKonarski Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:39:27 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11969 <p>Jason: My '05 MCS convertible came with a Owners Manual on CD-ROM. It adamantly states "brushless" when I watch the segment on washing the car. However, I didn't need an Owners Manual to tell me that. Synthetic cloth spinning at a high speed is extremely abrasive. Especially when the dirt from all the cars before you has not been washed off, but instead, stays on that synthetic cloth making it even more abrasive. It's full of fine granules acting like sand paper on your glossy, shiny paint. For years I have washed my cars in a brushless car wash or by hand. And when by hand I ALWAYS use a 100% cotton terry cloth that can be put in the washing machine and completely rinsed of any granules and dirt. Note that I NEVER, EVER use a sponge -- Again, it is made of synthetic materials (plastic with air bubbles injected inside) and it cannot be completely rinsed or washed out. All the dirt and granules burrow inside. Over time sponges also become the equivalent of sandpaper.</p> <p>Bottom line: Always wash your cars in brushless car washes or by hand with 100% terry cloths. (Helpful hint: If you have a black car buy black terry cloth -- It won't leave white lint on the paint.)</p> Jason: My '05 MCS convertible came with a Owners Manual on CD-ROM. It adamantly states “brushless” when I watch the segment on washing the car. However, I didn't need an Owners Manual to tell me that. Synthetic cloth spinning at a high speed is extremely abrasive. Especially when the dirt from all the cars before you has not been washed off, but instead, stays on that synthetic cloth making it even more abrasive. It's full of fine granules acting like sand paper on your glossy, shiny paint. For years I have washed my cars in a brushless car wash or by hand. And when by hand I ALWAYS use a 100% cotton terry cloth that can be put in the washing machine and completely rinsed of any granules and dirt. Note that I NEVER, EVER use a sponge — Again, it is made of synthetic materials (plastic with air bubbles injected inside) and it cannot be completely rinsed or washed out. All the dirt and granules burrow inside. Over time sponges also become the equivalent of sandpaper.

Bottom line: Always wash your cars in brushless car washes or by hand with 100% terry cloths. (Helpful hint: If you have a black car buy black terry cloth — It won't leave white lint on the paint.)

]]> By: Andrew http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-1/#comment-11968 Andrew Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:20:27 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11968 <p>Hey, is there anyone with an MCS that ditched there runflats for regular tires? If so, what do you do for a spare? Carry a can of Fix-a-Flat?</p> Hey, is there anyone with an MCS that ditched there runflats for regular tires? If so, what do you do for a spare? Carry a can of Fix-a-Flat?

]]> By: michael Boice http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-1/#comment-11967 michael Boice Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:16:53 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11967 <p>...braking from 60-0 in 118' +/-, .87 skid pad, and slalom speeds approaching 70mph, 0-60 (S-Works) low 6's and quarter mile times in the mid 14's...I'ld call it a sports car. The are many 'sports cars' defined by clssic architecture that cannot compete with those numbers. A sports car is what a sports car does, or else, it is a fake. And, the S2000 is NOT very well buttoned down, especially at the limit...dull steering doesn't help.</p> …braking from 60-0 in 118' +/-, .87 skid pad, and slalom speeds approaching 70mph, 0-60 (S-Works) low 6's and quarter mile times in the mid 14's…I'ld call it a sports car. The are many 'sports cars' defined by clssic architecture that cannot compete with those numbers. A sports car is what a sports car does, or else, it is a fake. And, the S2000 is NOT very well buttoned down, especially at the limit…dull steering doesn't help.

]]> By: Gabe http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-1/#comment-11966 Gabe Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:42:26 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11966 <p>Philip is right (do they hae rough roads in Germany?) the first thing you will want to do is replace the runflats with regular tires. They will grip better, ride smoother, and be much cheaper.</p> <p>If you're dealer won't do this you may want to check out the tirerack.com.</p> <p>BTW I went from runflats and 16" wheels to non-runflats 17" and the ride actually <em>improved</em>.</p> Philip is right (do they hae rough roads in Germany?) the first thing you will want to do is replace the runflats with regular tires. They will grip better, ride smoother, and be much cheaper.

If you're dealer won't do this you may want to check out the tirerack.com.

BTW I went from runflats and 16″ wheels to non-runflats 17″ and the ride actually improved.

]]> By: Philip http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/14/car_38_driver_recap_its_longterm_mcs/comment-page-1/#comment-11965 Philip Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:16:55 +0000 http://matthewgifford.com/2004/10/14/#comment-11965 <p>Melanie,</p> <p>ask your dealer to replace the run-flat tires that come as a standard to non-run-flat tires. I did so and I'm very very pleased with the ride. I had to pay a very small premium for this but it's absolutely worth it.</p> Melanie,

ask your dealer to replace the run-flat tires that come as a standard to non-run-flat tires. I did so and I'm very very pleased with the ride. I had to pay a very small premium for this but it's absolutely worth it.

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