Comments on: Cooper S Automatic Reader Review

By: Slow shifts on the gen 2 automatic transmission? - MINI2

Slow shifts on the gen 2 automatic transmission? - MINI2 — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:09:07 +0000

[...] "The transmission is adaptive as well, and because of the drive by wire system, very responsive to throttle input." MotoringFile » Archive » Cooper S Automatic Reader Review [...]

By: Dilemma

Dilemma — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:49:47 +0000

Thanks Gabe, the link to the article and blogs regarding the JCW MCSa was enlightening, to say the least!

Basically, it appears to be a waste to install the JCW kit on a MCS auto.

However, the debate over manual vs auto doesn't look like it's going to abate any time soon.

Personally, I know what I'll have to decide on before my purchase:

If it's an auto, it'll be for convenience, sans JCW kit.

If it's a manual, it'll have the JCW kit, and I'm sure the fun will far outweigh the inconvenience!

Many thanks for the help, and the awesome (and helpful) site.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:57:15 +0000

In the articles IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve read, the auto is approx. 0.5 sec slower than the manual. However, with a JCW package, performance is supposedly increased by approx. 0.5 sec. Theoretically bringing it up to the manual performace time.

This is not the case. Here's an excerpt from a recent AutoExpress test:

So while the 0-62mph sprint takes 7.3 seconds (against the manualÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s 6.6), the lethargic box masks the beefy engineÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s considerable verve. Despite having Adaptive Transmission Control, which adjusts to your driver style over time, response never feels sharp.

[ Reviews: The JCW Cooper S ] MotoringFile

By: Dilemma

Dilemma — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:48:29 +0000

I live in a country where there's loads of traffic and loads of steep hills, so while my preference would be for a manual MCS, the auto just seems a more practical choice. Especially for day-to-day use.

What I'm currently looking at is a JCW MCSa.

In the articles I've read, the auto is approx. 0.5 sec slower than the manual. However, with a JCW package, performance is supposedly increased by approx. 0.5 sec. Theoretically bringing it up to the manual performace time.

0.5 sec doesn't seem like a huge difference, so is the extra $$$ for JCW kit actually worth it?

Any views on this dilemma would be greatly apprecited!

By: Mark Churchland

Mark Churchland — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:22:05 +0000

I've been driving my MCSa for about 2000 miles now and find the system very natural, and plenty of fun on backroads, allowing you to quickly respond to surprises. The performance hit is definitly not 1.2 seconds in the 0-60. It might be about half a second (I have driven both back to back) and even then most of that loss is in the 0-10 range. I be the 10-60 times would be nearly identical.

On the subject of it shifting for you. It seems to shift for you to prevent redline, but only during the break-in period (I discovered this on a dealer test car). However, on my car (which is past break-in) it seems happy to let me hit redline. Whether I can keep going past that I am unwilling to test. Anybody know the answer?

Also, feel free to mock, but I think the JCW for the MCSa is a great idea. The only think I am confused about is what is different from the manual? Do they need to upgrade the transmission or software simultaneously with the engine?

By: Mark Churchland

Mark Churchland — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:15:43 +0000

I’ve been driving my MCSa for about 2000 miles now and find the system very natural, and plenty of fun on backroads, allowing you to quickly respond to surprises. The performance hit is definitly not 1.2 seconds in the 0-60. It might be about half a second (I have driven both back to back) and even then most of that loss is in the 0-10 range. I be the 10-60 times would be nearly identical.

By: PerformanceRequired

PerformanceRequired — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:18:41 +0000

I heard that the performance is decreased from 6.5 seconds 0-60 , to 7.7 seconds 0-60 - IMO, this performance loss is definately not worth it. Stick to the manual (unintentional pun).

BTW on the Audi A3, the addition of the DSG automatic made it faster than their manual in the 0-60 sprint. BMW should take a look at an automatic solution for the MCS that doesn't degrade performance. (you can see they avoid mentioning the 0-60 figures for the AUTO on the mini website)

By: Gabe

Gabe — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 03:33:32 +0000

Yes. Later this spring.

By: davadava

davadava — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 03:11:40 +0000

Is there a Works kit available for the Cooper S automatic? If not, are there any plans for one?

By: Gordon

Gordon — Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:47:27 +0000

Actually, on the M3 SMG, all rev matchings are done for you, both up and downshift. That is the most elegant part of the system, you do not need (or want) to help it by backing off the throttle, and it does the double clutching for you during downshift. The drive by wire system works with SMG to control the matching. In S1, both up and downshifts are smooth. As you move up to S4, S5, S6, the shifts become faster and harder (S5/S6 shifts can be achieved in as little as 0.08 sec). When you are calling up these modes, you are asking for performance, and the last thing you want to do is to back off the throttle and lose RPM unnecessarily. So you should keep the throttle down and let the car take care of the shift for you. It took over 1,000 miles for me to truly appreciate its beauty.

M3 SMG is very nonintrusive. It never upshifts for you, it will bounce against the 8,000 RPM limiter if you do not shift. It only downshifts when it absolutely must, you can lug the engine at 6th gear at 1300 RPM if you want. If you drive a manual, and know when to upshift/downshift, you will rarely see SMG shift for you. In the MINI CVT and other BMW TipTronic cars, the transmission is far more intrusive, doing a lot more shifting for me without me asking for it. I personally do not like it.

Back to the MINI auto, I am surprised to read it does not upshift for you as you near the redline. Every BMW TipTronic does that. Can someone verify this?

By the way, when I am turning, I found shifting much easier by reaching down and doing a quick flick with the shifter, rather than using the steering wheel mounted control.

By: drew

drew — Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:34:08 +0000

i drove the very car discussed in this review yesterday - and all i can say is wow! anyone awaiting an mcsa is going to be in for a treat - especially making the switch from the cvt cooper.

drew

By: Lopster

Lopster — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:22:15 +0000

Obviously the market for this auto box is the states, where the mini is popular but out of reach of a large percentage of soley auto drivers. Oh, and my wife who can drive a manual but refuses, so has just ordered hers!

By: Simon Dowe

Simon Dowe — Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:40:40 +0000

Thanks for the review Aleks. I am collecting my Mini Cooper S Auto on the 11th of Feb.

By: Edge

Edge — Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:21:00 +0000

Never minding the MCSa topic here... I too am VERY interested in the new "on the steering wheel" Bluetooth controls. I am about to take delivery of my own '05 MCS, with LSD & all of the functional JCW bits (i.e. no "pretty" bits). I have a Bluetooth phone (Motorola V710 with Verizon Wireless), but I am not sure if it is compatible with the official MINI BT kit.

Up until now, I wasn't going to worry about it, because I hated the kludgy-looking BT kit with the mounted keypad. But with integrated steering wheel controls... that's another story!

Aside from any compatibility details, does anyone know if it's the exact same BT kit to utilize those new controls? Also, does the price drop at all? (since you shouldn't need the external keypad any more)

Edge

By: aleks

aleks — Tue, 08 Feb 2005 03:45:04 +0000

they are working on a jcw kit for automatic equipped cars, and I assured that it is comingg soon. As far as the operation of the SMg, i have driven one for much longer than i drove the MCSa and most will agree that lifting the throttle is necesary to exexute smooth shifts, especially in the faster shift programs where the clutch engages quickly. In auto mode it does help smooth things out.

Again I want to stress that these two systems work entirely differently, and are not corelated other than the fact that they do not have a clutch pedal.

By: MrV

MrV — Tue, 08 Feb 2005 03:32:55 +0000

News is that it will be available later in the Spring. I am sure that spirited discussions will follow.

By: j

Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:38:30 +0000

this may seem a little out of the ordinary and all coments should and will be respected…. but does anyone think a works kit will be available? mini now only offers it with a manual.

By: KevinR

KevinR — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:39:36 +0000

I've driven a few cars with transmissions such as this. After the novelty wears off, I find I just leave it in auto mode and let the car do its thing. Personally, I prefer the manual transmission.

That being said, I do think it is a good addition to the product line. If I lived somewhere that had nightmare traffic, this option would probably seem much more appealing to me.

Looking forward to the details on the steering wheel...

By: Gabe

Gabe — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:09:58 +0000

You may not be required to lift when shifting an SMG but it's a very good idea if you value anything close to smooth shifts.

But I think it needs to be made very clear that people that are ordering the MCSa shouldn't expect a transmission similar in performance to BMW's SMG. Essentially (and this is very high-level) the SMG is a manual transmission with a component bolted on that controls clutch. It may be worth noting that the new M5/M6 7-speed SMG differs from this design just a bit.

Operationally (is that a word?) the MCSa and the SMG in non-M cars are the same. In the BMW's M cars the lever layout on the steering wheel is different as has been mentioned previously.

By: CraigE

CraigE — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:05:17 +0000

Actually aleks, as far as operation of the MCSa and BMW SMG they are very similar. They both have a fully automatic mode, both can be shifted semi automatically and fully manual. The SMG does NOT require that the driver back off the throttle in order to shift. In that, the operation is similar to the MCSa. Where they differ is that the SMG causes the throttle to be reduced automatically for a few milliseconds at shift time in order to unload the transmission. Upon downshifting the SMG will also blip the throttle to precisely the correct RPM in order to achieve a smooth downshift. So other than mechanically and performance wise there is no major operational difference between the MCSa and the SMG.