The Next Generation of iPod Integration

Erik Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Dizamn! Bring on the Bluetooth Ipod interface!

And a bit OT: Any updates on the Denison Ice Link plus? Have the bugs been worked out?

-Erik ‘05 MCS

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Jared/pezboy Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Yep, they have. v2.05 is fine. I guess there is one small bug about if you skip tracks too quickly..I haven’t ever done it and don’t want to try.

It doesn’t mess with the car like the older firmware did, though.

Works great. I love that now I can just shut the car off (automatically pausing the iPod), run in the store, get back in and start the car (automatically unpausing the iPod).

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Jim Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Sweet, bluetooth iPod adapter eh? That would be nice. As far as the icelink, 2.05 is great, just wish we could get a clear answer on the Idv3 support.

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ajigel Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Yeah, I’ve heard of this. Apple’s been rumored to be playing with airport and bluetooth integration with the iPod for a bit, but this is the first time anyone’s mentioned it in relation to cars. Sounds great, especially for short trips.

If I can play tracks on my iPod without taking it out of my bag or coat pocket I’d be pretty happy. The kicker is that the thing will still need a power cord for those long roadtrips, so you still won’t be 100% wireless.

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ChrisLW Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

And here’s a note on a bluetooth rear view mirror that I posted over in MINI2 http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84660 and an article link is here: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/bluetooth/bluetooth-rearview-mirror-033242.php

“LG is showing off a prototype Bluetooth-enabled rearview mirror at 3GSM in Cannes. The idea is simple enough: pair up the mirror with your phone and get caller ID information displayed as you drive. In addition, the mirror functions as a hands-free speakerphone,…”

Note the mobileburn link I had in the MINI2 posting isn’t working, dunno what’s up w/ that.

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Steve Carlin Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Yeah, bluetooth would be great. it would be even better if there was ID3 support for the bluetooth mirror or with some display. The iPod display is simply too small to have to read from a distance. And I like to keep the iPod and connector hidden in the glove compartment so that there is one less bracket, holder or dock on display for potential thieves.

The Dension works OK with 2.05, but it is still way too primitive, especially compared to what it promises. For example, the web site claims you can navigate by artist or album, like the Alpine interface. That is simply dishonest because you have to use the iPod interface to do so. You may as well just pay less than half the price for the aux input.

The only way it plays albums is if I had it playing one outside of the car. When I plug it in, it starts playing the rest of the album as playlist “1″.

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Kurt Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Not only will I think the sound will suffer with a bluetooth connection (because of bluetooths actual limitations) but I think that if they add phone abilities to it too, the price will be so high no one will want it… the current bluetooth phone adapter for mini is outragious already, I’d hate to see what the price is if they worked in high quality sound from an ipod into it…

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Aaron Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

From what I understood of the Bluetooth bandwith, you wouldn’t want to listen to the music after it suffered the necessary compression to come across real-time. It works adequately for voice communication but when you add in the complexity and wide frequency of music, somethings gotta give and it will probably be quality.

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Gabe Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

I’m sure they wouldn’t take the time annd expense to develop it if the sound was high quality.

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Iain Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Aaron and Kurt are correct – the sound quality will suffer with Bluetooth, which was never designed to support the full fidelity of music. Voice is a very different animal.

Bluetooth (named for an old Scandinavian king by the way) was designed originally to support several modes, including linking mobile devices together and supporting cordless phone functions. The original specs never included support for music (iPod was not even a twinkle in Steve Jobs’ eye back then!).

The biggest limitation that Bluetooth faces today is the limited bandwidth it supports – that is, the amount of data it can transmit per second. Anyone who has used Bluetooth to transfer data from a PC to a PDA for example, and then done the same thing using WiFi (high bandwidth), knows what I am talking about.

The Bluetooth SIG (Special Interest Group – the folks that control the spec) have proposed Bluetooth 2 (Blueteeth?) which supports higher bandwidth. But with the popularity of WiFi, I think it unlikely Bluetooth 2 will ever happen.

I am not sure what technology this story is refering to exactly, but the use of Bluetooth to send music would be a concern. This company may have developed a specific compresison protocol to put music over Bluetooth – if this is the case, it will not be cheap.

I would not get too excited by this announcement – one of the world’s biggest wireless shows was in Cannes last week and this type of announcement usually surrounds this type of show. Best to wait and see what really comes to market….

By the way, I am a wireless industry analyst – been looking at the industry for 10+ years. Bluetooth and I are old friends….

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Gabe Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Bluetooth 2 is now standard on Apple Powerbooks…

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Chris LW Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

But BT 2.0 is already here, in the most recently announced Apple products in late Jan:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/02/09/bluetooth2/index.php http://wifinetnews.com/archives/004760.html

However, I agree, to your point re: sound quality, BT 2.0 is geared more to data rates, still not the transmission of high fidelity sounds. And, as the articles point out, it will be Fall before we see the peripherals….

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Brian Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

I guess he meant that he HASN’T looked at the Bluetooth industry in 10 years.

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rollermonkey Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

MAN!!! I can’t wait, have a MINI on order with the iPOD adapter, hope It works out that I get the next-gen system!

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Gabe Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

For those wanting to know more about Bluetooth 2.0 (who doesn’t!) Powerpage.org has a good article on the benefits of the new standard… including this little nugget:

Other benefits of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR functional differences include:

• Multicast up to seven other devices at once, current BT devices can only communicate one to one.

• Increased data throughput for streaming CD-quality audio, digital image transfer and laser printing. This also means that it draws less power because the radio is on less, saving on battery life.

• Better streaming audio for stereo headsets when the radio link is marginal. The implications here are huge for a Bluetooth iPod.

• Support for simultaneous profiles that need a lot of data capability.

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Kurt Collins Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

What about if they don’t do a 2.0+ EDR interface – Think about it – maybe something something like a handheld Bluetooth device that will link with the IPOD (or other device) that is connected via the existing cable.

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Kurt Collins Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Let me add that your handheld device would have a high-quality display that mimics a shrunken iPod display.

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Gabe Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

so kinda like an iPod then :)

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Iain Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

I stand corrected! I ghad not realized Apple had released BT2 to date. Maybe I should have said I know of no cell phones with BT2…

Now someone is going to post a list of all the new models with BT2…..

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Evan Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

I was wondering about an update for the BMW/MINI ipod adapter. I was at the Detroit show and saw that Mercedes was beginning to offer an ipod adapter of its own. Only thing- their adapter displays the song title and artist as the ipod screen does, not just a playlist number.

Any news on this?

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johnsocal Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Broadcom already supplies Apple WIFI technology and Broadcom has a new version of bluetooth coming out as well that will most likely be used – check it out @ http://broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=675530&source=home

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johnsocal Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

More info:

BCM2035

Bluetooth Single-Chip HCI Solution The Broadcom BCM2035 is a monolithic single-chip, standalone baseband processor with an integrated 2.4-GHz transceiver for Bluetooth 1.1 and 1.2 applications. It eliminates the need for external flash memories and active components by integrating critical components into the device, thus minimizing the footprint and system cost of implementing a Bluetooth system.

The BCM2035 is the optimal solution for any voice and/or data applications that requires the Bluetooth SIG standard Host Controller Interface (HCI) via either USB or UART and PCM audio interfaces. The BCM2035 is based on the production and UnPlugFest proven architecture of the BCM2033 Bluetooth baseband core (BBC), peripheral transport unit (PTU), and microprocessor unit (PU). The PU stores the lower level protocol stack in read-only memory (ROM) plus patch random access memory (RAM) to provide the maximum flexibility.

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vitaboy Feb 22nd, 2005 Link

Also from Apple’s website:

“The new Apple PowerBook G4 portables are the first computers to offer Bluetooth 2.0+EDR. (Earlier aluminum and titanium PowerBook G4 models feature Bluetooth 1.x support.) Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, while still backwards-compatible with Bluetooth 1.x, is up to three times faster than its predecessors, offering a maximum data rate of 3Mbps. As the first company to certify a system supporting Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (enhanced data rate) specification with the Bluetooth Qualification Board, Apple continues to popularize Bluetooth technology.”

The BCM2035 seems to be a Bluetooh 1.x chip, which doesn’t seem to have enough bandwidth for streaming hi-fi audio. As Apple is already supporting Bluetooth 2.0+EDR in its new PowerBooks, it’s doubtful they would use the BCM2035 in the iPod, in my opinion.

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johnsocal Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

They will most likely use Broadcom’s BCM2045 instead BCM2035:

The new very low power BCM2045 Bluetooth solution: The industry’s first 0.13u Bluetooth solution with Enhanced Data Rate (EDR), the new Bluetooth 2.0 standard that triples the speed of Bluetooth for advanced multimedia, wireless printing and other applications.

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JB Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

I have not yet committed to an ipod option for my MY05 mcs works. so far i am suffering with itrip until a definate solution from denison or bmw/mini will give me heads up on the dash head unit. keep up the great work on the updates thanks gabe

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ChrisLW Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

And how about this, a BT via cassette adapter…http://www.abe-hk.com/english/products/cassette/cassette.htm

The sound quality must be a bit on the weaker side…

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Siddhartha Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

I guess no one has seen these options from Herrington?

iPod FM Wireless Broadcaster $39.95 Apple’s iPod gets my vote as Best Designed Audio Product of the Decade. But I found ways to improve it! Plug our tiny Broadcaster into your iPod, and transmit a clean, FM signal to your car or home stereo. Just … an open station from among the four pre-programmed frequencies, and enjoy iPod’s 10,000-tune repertoire on the road, or at home – without headphones, …

iPod-to-Go $99.95 I call this the ultimate iPod accessory. So well engineered it could have been designed by Steve Jobs himself (although it wasn’t!). Just slip your iPod or iPod Mini into the cradle, then plug the pivoting arm into your 12-volt lighter socket. iPod-to-Go transmits a clear signal to your car’s FM stereo – just set your radio and iPod-to-Go to any unused FM frequency from 88MHz – 108MHz. Then enjoy your entire iPod repertoire through …

iTrip for iPod $36.95 Here’s three ways to improve your iPod’s versatility while complementing its slick design: iTrip – Transmit a clean, wireless FM signal of iPod’s or Mini Ipod’s output to your car or home stereo. Just plug iTrip right into the … headphone jack and pick any open station from 87.7 to 107.9! Powered from iPod – no batteries needed.iTalk – Turn iPod into a voice recorder/playback machine with hundreds of hours of …

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Gabe Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

Siddhartha – my experience with FM transmitters over the years has been so poor I don’t even bother mentioning them anymore.

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rollermonkey Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

sigh… new iPods today and not any Bluetooth in sight.

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James Gleason Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

Gabe, why was my post removed? Just because I hadn’t had a response from Dension? Is that my fault. I didn’t say anything worthy of this. Is this censorship in the highest degree? I just want to have a working IceLink which I paid for. I noticed that others had complained here in this posting, so I was just sharing my struggle with Dension. Nothing flameworthy.

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Gabe Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

James – You’re post wasn’t deleted. You actually posted your comment on the most recent ICE-Link article and not this thread.

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James Gleason Feb 23rd, 2005 Link

I’m so sorry. I’m a dork! My apologies for this confusion on my part. Thanks!

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ecirwin Feb 25th, 2005 Link

Is there anyone else here wondering what Bluetooth brings to this picture? If the phone and iPod are in some kind of cradle (as described) then why have Bluetooth? I know that energy management is a big part of BT 2.0, but I think a broadcasting iPod with BT built in would be an energy hog. If I leave the BT turned on in my phone the battery dies in a day and a half. With BT turned off, the battery lasts 4 days. This is the older BT, but battery usage is a concern. As soon as you plug the unit into something, you might as well do everything through the plug (charge, transmit, receive). I just don’t see the logic in this. BT for BT sake does not make sense.

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RB Feb 25th, 2005 Link

My iTrip NEVER worked properly……..NEVER.

Their service people were the worst. I became so frustrated with it and them I sent it back to them and told them to keep it.

Don’t buy one.

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Todd Feb 25th, 2005 Link

Despite other folks comments to the contrary, my Monster iPlay works great as a radio transmitter. I really think the difference is that it is also a power adapter, so it has a very strong signal. My wife had an iTrip for a while – very weak signal. She replaced it with a DLO Transpod and has had great results.

So use a radio adapter that also plugs into the cig lighter. My experience suggests you’ll have much better results.

TMan

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Matt Apr 15th, 2005 Link

I know for a fact this is true. I would in the snowboard industry and Burton is working with apple to create a ski helmet that connects to the ipod via wireless blue tooth. It’s expected to be out this fall, so I’m assuming that the ipod will be too.

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