The Dragon DVD

O(=^=)O Capn Jun 20th, 2005 Link

Looks Cool!

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Josh Wardell Jun 21st, 2005 Link

Great editing judging by the trailer! I wish we had a longer sample though.

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Edge Jun 21st, 2005 Link

Although I’d like to see it, I have to say I’m not impressed with the fact they seem to be proud of the fact they frequently crossed the double yellow lines. That is simply irresponsible driving, and completely unnecessary in order to drive the Dragon fast.

I was one of the “quick” MINIs on the Dragon, making full use of my extra go-fast bits (JCW tuning kit, suspension & brakes), however I was very determined to not cross the yellow lines, and I didn’t.

I even have DVD footage of me drving that was filmed by a gentleman in an S2000, with a hood-mounted camcorder. The first 3 minutes (~ 2 miles) from Tabcat Bridge, at a full ten tenths.

The point I’m trying to make is, the producers of the video shouldn’t be bragging and even profiting from blatantly irresponsible driving. They are giving MINI drivers a bad name to non-MINI owners who may see the video. All it would have taken is ONE car coming the other way at the wrong time (as even demonstrated in the trailer), and WHAMMO, all “heroics” out the door as cars are totalled, and likely injury or death.

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Gabe Jun 21st, 2005 Link

Wow – I didn’t get that at all from the footage. In fact I had to go back and look at it just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. While they did go over the line a couple times… it always seemed to either be by an inch, or in situations where they could clearly see what was ahead.

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Edge Jun 21st, 2005 Link

Look more closely Gabe – the first few times they show the Dragon, the cars are most definitely crossing, even on a blind corner, even greater than “an inch” (how about a full tire width?). Even an inch is too much… what if a car was coming the other way and doing the same thing?

Even in the case of being able to see what’s ahead, it’s still bad driving, even lazy driving. This was not a closed course, and that fact should be respected at all times, even if the speed limits were ignored.

I’m not going to sit here, play “holier than thou” and pretend that I didn’t exceed the limit. Of course I did, as does almost everyone who drives that road… but crossing the lines is far, FAR worse than simply going fast on your own side, IMO.

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HPuck35 Jun 21st, 2005 Link

There is one shot where the car is almost completely on the other side of the road, across the double yellow line. Whether they could see ahead is a moot point. They are across the double yellow line. Give the man a ticket.

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Micah Jun 21st, 2005 Link

As a motorcyclist and bicyclist, I wholeheartedly agree that it is simply irresponsible and dangerous to cross the double yellow center line through corners on twisty public roads. Not only that, but you are actually driving the car more (and learning how to be a better driver) when you stay within your lane since you are actually making sharper turns.

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Pocket Rocket Jun 21st, 2005 Link

Ha! I immediately clicked on comments to post about the blatant line crossing and I see that I was not the first to feel this way.

Count me as one of the ones less then impressed with the line crossing. But props to the editing and music choice..

This is one reason I have hesitated to go on this event.. It would just drive me NUTS…

Craig

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GregF Jun 21st, 2005 Link

So do we boycott the DVD?

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Edge Jun 21st, 2005 Link

They won’t be getting my money. I’d probably look at the video if it was free, and try to ignore the blatantly irresponsible parts.

I’m more curious to see if they ever see this thread and comment in their own defense. Somehow I doubt it (it’s hard to defend), but maybe, we’ll see!

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Gabe Jun 21st, 2005 Link

I still don’t quite understand what the fuss is all about. I just watched it again and still only see maybe one spot where the driver was over the line a bit too much. Even then it’s hard to tell the circumstances as we don’t have the entire picture of the road ahead on the screen.

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Edge Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

Gabe,

I think the problem here is a difference of opinion on how much is “too much”. I (and the others who commented above) believe that ANY is too much. The fact that they did also it VERY blatantly “in situations where they could clearly see what was ahead” does not make their case better, but worse. It shows a general disregard, a “who cares” attitude. And that there, is the general problem. It even seems they’re -proud- of it to me.

If I had aimed to make a video like this, I would have gone to great lengths to edit out any hint of line crossing, yet they seem to make it part of the feature – and with only the trailer, no less! I wish I had an easy way to digitize the 3 minutes of me (on DVD) that I mentioned above to show you what I’m talking about. Keeping inside the lines does not mean it has to be boring.

NOTE: I just watched it again, and it seems to me they have updated (shortened) it, taking out some of that controvesial footage. Perhaps they have been reading this and realize that it looks bad. Something tells me that the full video won’t be responsibly presented though.

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SwingMCS03 Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

I agree with Edge and the others who expressed concern with the footage. As soon as I saw the trailer my first thought was that I can’t believe they are showing MINIs crossing the lines. I wasn’t at the Dragon and my driving ability probably would have taken me across the lines, too, but I sure wouldn’t try to show or sell the video to others.

At least no one was hurt. And the road sure looks like fun!

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RedRock Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

It also looks to me that they edited out the part of the trailer where they were way over the line.

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Gabe Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

Again I’m kinda at a loss here. I saw the trailer before it went live and I honesly don’t remember ever seeing a car go over the yellow line in a dangerous fashion.

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Micah Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

I agree with Edge that it is a matter of perspective about what is acceptable in terms of “toeing” or crossing the center line. I had a friend who was killed on a motorcycle when a few idiots on a Corvette group drive were pushing one another on public roads in West Virginia, crossed over the center line around a tight corner, and hit him head on (of course the fool driving the Vette had nothing but a damaged front end to show for his incompetence). In these types of interactions between cars and motorcyclists/bicylists/pedestrians the car always wins. Now I live in Colorado and have seen way too many instances of guys in sports cars treating public roads like a race track, endangering the lives of other users of the roads.

I had a strong reaction to that video because I have seen time and again that on group drives when you get a bunch of guys in similar cars, a few usually try to race one another without thinking twice (seemingly) that there are other folks out there on the roads.

Don’t get me wrong I think it is fine to drive quickly within the limits of your car and abilities, but unfortunately lots of folks who own tuned high power cars (including plenty of Mini owners) don’t really know how to drive.

Just my two cents…

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Gabe Jun 22nd, 2005 Link

Don’t get me wrong I think it is fine to drive quickly within the limits of your car and abilities, but unfortunately lots of folks who own tuned high power cars (including plenty of Mini owners) don’t really know how to drive.

Yeah – regardless of anything else – the best upgrade you can make to your MINI is a driving school. Preferrably one that teaches respect for the public road.

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Micah Jun 23rd, 2005 Link

I couldn’t agree more with you Gabe. Most people should take the two grand they spend on intake/chip/pulley/exhaust and instead attend one of the many fine driving schools around the country (often for much less money than they will spend on “upgrades”). This will translate to better everyday enjoyment of their Mini (e.g., it’s fun to properly heel and toe downshift), in addition to safer driving!

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OctaneGuy Jun 27th, 2005 Link

As the video/camera forum moderator at NAM and developer/manufacturer of the VacuCams, I thought I’d weigh in on this subject here. I drove the Dragon at MOTD 2005 for the first time and made very deliberate attempts to stay within the lines. There were times I touched the line, but I always drove within my capabilities. I witnessed far too many drivers pushing it for that adrenanline rush and I don’t think the makers of this video are innocent of that either. I ordered my copy last week for “research purposes”. I’ll be frank–NAM asked me to attend the Dragon to create a DVD of the event, and I while I have a greater responsibility to ensure that the event is viewed in a positive light than Outmotoring, these comments are useful to me! There are a few instances off of the Dragon, closer to Fontana Village where everyone had to cross the line because half the lane was covered in grass clippings and hidden pot holes and debris, but those were in straightaways. While I probably would have edited those scenes out anyways to prevent any misunderstandings, people should know that crossing the line may be the only safe alternative in some areas due to road hazards–but they should be done responsibly. Finally if anyone thinks lane crossing is stupid, I just got a reviewer copy of a video called Chasing the Togue. It’s very well produced and it’s all about car clubs who race the canyons and they cross the lines all the time, and they freely admit they are doing stupid and dangerous stuff that might kill innocent people. The only saving grace of all this is that MINI owners all say, take the racing to the track and not on the streets.

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