The Rumored Lightweight MCS: Part 4

Sections: MF Feature | Rumor Sep 19th, 2005 48 Comments

Here we go with yet more details on the rumored (and looking more real everyday) lightweight MCS. The Automotive News breaks some juicy details in this week’s edition a potential power output and that all important question of price:

Bertone will build 2,000 units of a high-performance version of the Mini.

The two-seat Mini by Bertone will have a 225hp gasoline engine. It is expected to be sold worldwide at prices starting at about E30,000.

The BMW contract will help the Italian coachbuilder survive difficult times. Without the Mini deal Bertone would have no cars to build next year. It currently builds the Opel Astra convertible, but its successor, the Astra TwinTop, will be produced at Opel’s plant in Antwerp, Belgium, starting next year.

[ Bertone will build Lightweight MINI ] Automotive News

MF Analysis: A couple of nice new bits of info here. First off the 225hp number is a new one to me. This would indicate BMW will not only be lightening up the car but also massaging the JCW kit a bit to increase power output. And based on the info in our latest article (The Rumored Lightweight MCS Part 3), US sales are looking a little more probable.

It’s also nice to see a rumored price point finally mentioned. Now before everyone gets their currency calculators out, MINI typically sells cars in the US much lower than a straight currency conversion would indicate. So if the Euro price hits the 30k mark, I would speculate the US will see something just over $30,000 dollars. We should have more on this in the coming weeks…

Related

[ The Rumored Lightweight MCS Part 3 ] MotoringFile

[ The Rumored Lightweight MCS Part 2 ] MotoringFile

[ The Latest on the Rumored Lightweight MCS ] MotoringFile

Written By: Gabe

Lee L

Oh, at $30,000 they will sell them in a minute. It will be interesting to see just how far they go in lightening things.
Ric Stofer

Get in line folks, now would be a good time to visit your motoring advisor.
Bob

At 30k, that’s hot.
KevinR

Two seater, huh? So I wonder what the rear seat delete parts will look like.

Unfortunately, I predict a bidding war for these cars in the US (if they actually make it here).
Z4MINI

“Oh, at $30,000 they will sell them in a minute. It will be interesting to see just how far they go in lightening things.”

It says 30,000 EURO…not dollars!!!!
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

“Oh, at $30,000 they will sell them in a minute. It will be interesting to see just how far they go in lightening things.”

It says 30,000 EURO…not dollars!!!!

Read the last paragraph and you’ll see what he was referring to. MINI doesn’t just do a straight currency conversion whem pricing US MINIs. For instance the Cooper S retails for 20,800 Euros. In the US it retails for $20,600 (despite the Euro being worth more).
minicoopermike

Yeah, but guys the MCS sells in the UK for something like $30,000 US-equivalent stripped to the bone versus $20,000+ base here in the U.S. So I would go along with Gabe and say the Lightweight will be prolly be priced just over $30K, or $31-32K
John

This is great news! Time to call the MA and have him start a new wait list…
http://www.jayandjennifer.com/minilaunch/ MrV

That’s alot cheaper than I thought it would go for. Everyone is right, at 30K these will be long gone with pre-orders way before they ever reach the showroom.

225 HP, with a lightened load will go like a rocket.

– Jay
Jeff

Hmmm….not convinced this is still such a great car. With minimal weight savings efforts, the 225hp amount really isn’t too significant given we’re already hearing 230hp for the next gen JCW models. It’s also much easier to tweak additional hp from turbocharged cars, I’m beginning to think it might be better off to wait for an ’07 JCW MCS.
Bob

I don’t know if these will be gone in 60 seconds or not. I think the 2004 limited edition Monte Carlo JCW MCS didn’t sell too hot in the US. At least, HC Mini of Boston still has two of them which they are now discounting.
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

I don’t know if these will be gone in 60 seconds or not. I think the 2004 limited edition Monte Carlo JCW MCS didn’t sell too hot in the US. At least, HC Mini of Boston still has two of them which they are now discounting.

The MC40 failed (in terms of sales) because it was pre-specced with purely cosmetic options and mods – most of which you could get ala carte. It was also poorly optioned for most since it didn’t include a sunrooof yet had a $1000 dashboard.

This rumored lightweight will be a very different car.
Aaron

I don’t think that it’s proper to compair the lightweight offering to the Monte Carlo MCS that was out a few years ago. The lightweight is a new product with options that you couldn’t just tick off on your order sheet. The Monte Carlo was just an option package that tacked a bunch of over-priced options into the same car (plus a few “unique” decals that were quickly replicated in the after-market).
Chris

That price, does sound a little low. Here in the Netherlands I bought a Cooper S in June, with nice options, but no sun roof or works kit, and it came to 36k euro. In the UK would be a bit cheepr at around 30k for a nice spec. So how they can do a Works Plus on it and make it cheaper beats me.

Perhaps it is 30k euro extra, on top of the Cooper S basic ;-)
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

The Monte Carlo was just an option package that tacked a bunch of over-priced options into the same car (plus a few “unique” decals that were quickly replicated in the after-market).

Actually the MC40 wasn’t an “option package”. Granted an options package probably would have been a better idea. Because the car was specced as is and had no ability to add options, most passed it up.
tanya

Unless they are going mid-engine, a la the R5 Turbo (improbable), then deleting the rear seat seems like a very lazy approach to trimming weight.
Edge

Reading between the lines… if the additional HP gains in this car are designed/sanctioned by JCG and/or BMW… might we see another JCW upgrade option in the future, to boost from 207/210 to 225? :)
O(=^=)O Capn

Again, Why would MINI need to outsource to build this? It seems that it would be more cost ineffective to outsource than to keep it in house. Transporting all the parts to a different mfg and such…
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

Again, Why would MINI need to outsource to build this? It seems that it would be more cost ineffective to outsource than to keep it in house.

The Oxford Plant is stretched beyond capacity currently. There’s no way they could take on a project like this – especially over the next year. Reportedly outsourcing was the only option.
Mark

Off topic example of limited edition price gouging. The Ford dealer down the street from me (a small Chicago metro dealership) just got in a Ford GT. The guy who ordered it backed out, so it is for sale. MSRP 153k + “Market Adjustment” 56k = Final ASKING Price $209,000. Awesome car (it will be a collectible) and I guess if the market supports it then the dealer can get away with it. It will probably be the only one this small dealer will ever get. Hopefully the lightweight MCS won’t be getting 35% “Market Adjustments” when it comes out. Sorry for the non-Mini example.
After I test drove the Ford GT, I drove my Mini home and confirmed that I love my Mini more then the GT. Test drive…yeah right.
Lee L

Even if they converted euros straight, it would be under $40k right now and I still predect a massive sellout.
http://bravo5.org/blog blalor

Just for the record, the MC40 is not a JCW car! It probably would have sold better if it was…
Lee L

OK, converting today will give you $36,455.00 for a 30,000 euro car.
Allan

Yikes! 225hp in a 15% lighter car!

So that’s about 225hp per metric ton!
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

Yikes! 225hp in a 15% lighter car!

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 15% lighter figure mentioned previously on MINI2 isn’t totally accurate. Not a knock against MINI2 (who have done great job with the info generally) – just call it a educated hunch ;-)
Siddhartha

“Unless they are going mid-engine, a la the R5 Turbo (improbable), then deleting the rear seat seems like a very lazy approach to trimming weight.”

But on the other hand removing the rear seat reveals a cavity perfectly sized to safely transport your four light wheels with sticky tires for trackday and still have room in the boot for your toolbox!
minicoopermike

OK I’m bringing out the math geek in my engineering self here…

225hp and a 15% weight reduction (theoretical) should yield a nice power-to-weight ratio.

MINIUSA lists the ratio at 16.4 lbs per hp for both the coupe and convertible – however this appears to be an average – 15.9 for the coupe and 16.9 for the convertible. Unladen weights are listed at 2679 for the S hardtop and 2844 for the ragtop.

Supposing you’re using the same 2679 (my JCW has the sunroof and other options), then the weight of the new car would be about 2277 lbs before any options. With 225hp, that would put the number at 10.1 lbs per hp!

That is a healthy improvement over the stock S!
http://whitemaleconsumer.com Zeke Wright

Perhaps it is 30k euro extra, on top of the Cooper S basic ;-)

Heh, perhaps.

Unless they are going mid-engine, a la the R5 Turbo (improbable), then deleting the rear seat seems like a very lazy approach to trimming weight.

Agreed. But this post is great news for people actually interested in the model. The price is as good as you could hope for, and the boost in power is a pleasant surprise. Sort of weak that it’ll only be a 2-seater, but then I suppose whoever buys one won’t mind all that much. But all of this brought me back to reality – no way would I able to get one, whether it’s the price, the insurance, or the 2-per. seating capacity. Ah well.
RW

$30,000 US is not a believable price. That amount will just get you a standard JCW Cooper S. The lightweight edition will be a JCW with lots of mods in addition. Start with the price of a JCW, add every JCW carbon fiber accessory currently available plus JCW seats, then estimate custom parts and labor for this edition, and you will get to a very hefty number.
tanya

But on the other hand removing the rear seat reveals a cavity perfectly sized to safely transport your four light wheels with sticky tires for trackday and still have room in the boot for your toolbox!

Of course. But you can reveal that cavity yourself (and trim around 50 lbs) in about 30 minutes. You don’t need to pay thousands to have Bertone do it for you in an irreversible way.

Losing the rear seating altogether seems problematic, unless you’re going to drop a normally-aspirated BMW 6 in there, turning the rear wheels… My God, now that would be sweet!
Mark Pierce

My local dealer in the UK is only expecting to get one these,if it comes out at all, and already has a firm deposit on it, so he isn’t even opening up awaiting list!
JAG

If it is priced at 30k its a go, i will buy it, but if it is more than 35k, hello Elise.
ggjjr

I think it is very wishful thinking that they are going to pull 400 pounds (15%) out of that car. No way. I’d say more like 150.
tanya

I agree it would be tough to drop 400 lbs, but it could be done if they really go nuts:

-All-aluminum chassis -Aluminum block -Lightwieght exhaust -CF bonnet, roof and hatch -Lose sound insulation -Lose AC and stereo -Lightweight front seats and no rears -Lightweight wheels/tires -Misc CF bits and pieces

I’m assuming they can’t replace the safety glass with plastic.
RW

All of you are wrong. Here’s really how they are going to create the lightweight MCS :-)

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1839447&postcount=6

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=776885
Brent Breon

Spoke to a motoring advisor at Classic Mini in Cleveland today. They have confirmed they are receiving 4 Lightweights. I was the third to reserve a spot.
minicoopermike

Bertone will receive bodies in white from Mini’s plant in Oxford, England, and complete final assembly in its plant in Grugliasco, near Turin.

So does this mean the MINIs will be painted white similar to the M3 CSL or does the above phrase imply they will come as ordered by customer from Oxford to the plant in Italy?
Chris

Brent, Did they say when? I wonder if this dealer did it on their own, I doubt there’s any official delivery information.

[quote] Spoke to a motoring advisor at Classic Mini in Cleveland today. They have confirmed they are receiving 4 Lightweights. I was the third to reserve a spot.[/quote]
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

c=Bertone will receive bodies in white from Mini’s plant in Oxford, England, and complete final assembly in its plant in Grugliasco, near Turin.

So does this mean the MINIs will be painted white similar to the M3 CSL or does the above phrase imply they will come as ordered by customer from Oxford to the plant in Italy?

No. ‘Body in White’ is an automotive term for unfinished body ready for production.
BelowRadar

I’d like to propose that they are able to acheive the 30k price and 225hp, because they are putting the new engine in it. I have absolutely no info to back this up, but it seems plausible–even likley if the price and power rumors are true. If this thing comes with JCW (or JCW+) standard the price seems suspect. Also, where are they going to get the extra 15hp from? Is JCW/BMW going to warranty -19% SC pulleys? Not likely. But, if they were to put the turbo engine in, they could raise the boost via some simple ECU tweaks; creating much more power at the fraction of the JCW costs. Keep in mind, this car is being built in low numbers at a plant that currently has no proprietary engine like the Oxford plant. If the new engine can be mated to the current tranny, what do they care? Hell, that way BMW gets 2000 paying field testers for the new drivetrain. Anyone know how far Peugot/Citroen and BMW are on the new engine? The bulged-hood-test-mule “spy” photos have been out for at least a year.
KevinR

At least in the US, a new engine would require new crash testing. I can’t see MINI doing that for a low volume, end of the run special edition.
Siddhartha

I agree. We’ll never see this beast on this side of the pond. However, just in case, I put in a request with my MA in Chicago today. :-)
Siddhartha

Oh yes, and my son, who lives in Surrey, will do the same for me in the UK.
Siddhartha

BTW, my ’05 JCW everything MCS topped out at $34K. I paid it. I love it. It’s worth every penny. No whining from me!
Derek

“Losing the rear seating altogether seems problematic, unless you’re going to drop a normally-aspirated BMW 6 in there, turning the rear wheels… My God, now that would be sweet!”

Tanya – I assume you’ve seen this?

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewForum=y&gID=6&fID=1993

‘just checking….
BelowRadar

At least in the US, a new engine would require new crash testing. I can’t see MINI doing that for a low volume, end of the run special edition.

Won’t they have to crash test it anyway? I would assume with all the changes they’re making i.e “lightweight glass throughout”, possible cf hood, etc., that they would need new safety testing.
RML

I just put my name down at my dealer on the unofficial waiting list for an unofficial lightweight. :)
minicoopermike

I’ve been in touch with my dealer here in VA but they have no confirmation or details

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