More Rumors on the MINI/Triumph Concept

How about a MINI Triumph?

I always liked the looks of the MINI ACV30 which used a mid-engine MGF platform.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1286/concept.html

Could I hope for a roadster derivitive?

I think we’d be up to Triumph TR9 by now.

As the former owner of a 1.9L Z3, the Triumph idea has some appeal to me. However, the risk is that the car will come with too many modern conveniences that add weight and civility to a car. I’m not sure that civility and Triumph should be used in the same sentence.

I’m interested…

I agree with Nathaniel, “…presented by MINI”

I think my Moxie would be less ideal if it had a big ol BMW propeller on it.

People don’t mind that the car is made by another company, or a baby of another company, as long as the car has it’s own identity. [Clearly I wouldn't mistake a Triumph for a Beamer but still...]

Cheers all and happy motoring!

Jono

I’m not sure I could contain myself if this really happens!

The only Triumphs I remember are the infamous TR-7s from 20-25 years ago.

never driven or being in one, but this sounds like a very interesting project. So it seems that now BMW is in the business of resurrecting defunct British makes?

What’s next?

The Austin Healey or the Bug Eye Sprite??

As long as a British manufactured car has no Lucas parts and doesn’t leak oil, you’ll have a very reliable car.

Probably the most notable styling cues from Triumph’s modern era (ie post-war) were the eyebrows over the headlamps (inboard of the wings/fenders) on all TRs from TR2 to TR5 and, in the case of the Stag, the so-called “Targa” arrangement of inbuilt roll-bar incorporating removable roof panels. Perhaps, it is these aspects which the article is hinting at…?

The former would give a new MINI-based sportster an individual (Triumph family derived)appearance while the latter would provide a cost-effective alternative to an electric roof while, again, revisiting ‘past Triumphs.’

To Mike: There has never been an “official” factory RWD Mini. One of the signature “hallmark” attributes of the classic Mini and new BMW is that the cars are FWD. In fact, the original 1959 Mini designed by Sir Alec Issigonis was the first ever compact FWD production car. The ’59 Mini was groundbreaking in a world where 99% of the vehicles produced at the time were RWD. The transversally mounted 4-cyl A-series engine and transmission had never been seen before on any other BMC product or from any other world manufacturer.

Speaking of bug-eyed sprites, is it just me or does the MINI concept car mentioned by Jack G look like it might be a modern version of the bug-eye. I owned a 62 sprite for several years and the car was a blast to drive, although it had no real power and was a money-pit.

Greg W -

Actually, the 2-seater convertible was a running prototype, and the mock-up MG was basically a Mini with an Elf front and a cute little MG grill. I visited the BMH when it was at Syon Park, and the 2-seater Mini/MG was as well finished as any production car, and all elements functioned.

As a prime example of BL’s miopic view of car production, it’s a sad reminder of missed opportunities that BMC and later British Leyland were notorious for. When the Mini/MG was mooted for production, the existing Spridget cars had side curtains and a top that took ages to erect on a suddenly rainy day, even with two people, and I speak from experience. That may have been acceptable for some, but it hindered sales in the US market, where a much more civilized entry-level sports car would sell better, as the Spitfire so amply proved. Remember, at that time BMC and Leyland, who owned Triumph, were direct competitors in every single segment.

The Mini sportscar variation of the MG had roll-up windows, modern styling that vaguely resembled the later Fiat 124 Spyder, and best of all, a one-handed hood (top) that was a model of good design. It was meant to be complementary to both the existing FWD MG-1100 and the Midget, but may have been seen as more of a threat to them, as well. As with many of BMC/BL’s better ideas, it was shelved, and after I saw it at the Heritage, I’m convinced they had a winner on their hands and blew it.

At the time, the Museum staff was crewed by very helpful older gentlemen, who actually had quite a bit of knowledge regarding the cars in their care, as well as actively working on a number of on-going restorations. They didn’t have a tour very often, you just wandered about, in my case with a big grin. One of ‘em popped the bonnet to show me the very tidy engine compartment with a Mini Cooper motor sitting there, then laughed when he realized I’d meant I wanted “the hood up”, and oblidged me by pulling the top up in one clean motion – something its MG contemporaries seemed to be lacking.

He was quite conversant on MINI and British car history in general, and a bit later in my wanderings, let me sit in the driver’s seat of the ’65 Monte-winning MINI to take slide piccies of the Factory rally dash and interior. Ah, times were simpler then, cars were different then, our hearts were younger then. Would that BMW hadn’t sold the MG name for a nickel, and Big Healeys were still prowling low and sleek around my neighborhood. I’d like to see BMW’s resurrection of Triumph, a marque that seemed to have a sporting aspect to every car they ever made. A new TR250 wouldn’t hurt none, either, IMHO.

  BCNU,
Rob in Dago

I believe I recall one sportily styled cosmetic variation of the classic Mini (with 998cc engine?) being briefly called SPRITE at some stage;not alluding here to the Austin Sprite title given to the two-seater ‘Midget’- used after the rights to ‘Healey’ expired, and that would, I guess, give a new MINI-based sportster some heritage claim to the model name. But – for enthusiasts with long memories – the revival of a famous Austin/Austin- Healey name wouldn’t sit comfortably alongside Triumph which – as has been stated – was very much a rival manufacturer for many years. So, not Triumph Sprite! I guess that – if not the “MINI Sprite” – simply the “MINI Triumph” might work (somewhat ambiguously), if Triumph has to be resurrected by the marketing men to exploit its sporty connotations …

Agreed, Mark. There seems to be little point in exhuming Triumph unless it is to be an additional marque/brand in its own right. In which case: BMW continues to offer traditional German full prestige product line; MINI, delivering fashionable small cars in hardtop,convertible, estate variants; Triumph introduced for sportscars (at a level that provides alternatives to those from the BMW stable (eg cheaper, maybe quirkier, ‘younger’ in image).

If Triumph had been able to stay in business it is not unreasionable to think that they might have gone in the same direction as Toyota did for a sports car. That is mid engine, rear drive car based on a production car. Toyota’s MR2 was based on Corolla underpinnings and drivetrain.

What ever the final outcome, I hope for a car that is light and simple. Rear wheel drive would be nice. John

Just a plea to the marketing men at BMW… Please do the heritage of both Mini and Triumph some justice and don’t call this something like Mini Triumph, that would be so historically incorrect it’d hurt. I actually do like the idea of a Mini Sprite, because indeed the name Sprite was one of many “special edition” names used for Mini’s. The link with the Austin-Healey Sprite is also more obvious than with Triumph (Austin).

Also, I’m not sure the Triumph name would be such a great choice. I personally associate it more with old men with long beards than MG and maybe even Morgan (except for the Spitfire, but somehow that’s not so much tied to the Triumph name for me, on a mushy touchy-feely level). That wouldn’t stop me from every getting a nice classic Triumph if the opportunity arose, it just might be a sign that the Triumph name doesn’t have such a great ring to it over here in mainland Europe. Alternatively, this might just be totally personal :)

I kinda like the MINI Triumph TR and MINI Triumph TRS instead of the 9 That way there could be two engines and trims to fit into the family tree like the other offerings..

Actually, I hate to burst some bubbles, but the “infamous” Lucas parts are not really that bad. In my 72 TR6 (and the one before that, and before that, etc, etc) the only 2 problems I’ve ever had were a broken wire LAST year to the turn signals and having to clean the rear light connectors. That is it. Every Lucas part is fine. The biggest “problem” with any of the British cars was one of owner maintenance. You HAVE to do a bit of maintenance on your own to keep them running. We generally lazy Americans never liked doing that. Now the leaking oil thing is something different all together! I’ve never had even modern seals last more than 5 years without the car starting to mark terriotry.

Joe Burlein

Just to clarify a little ….

As I understand it, the Healey family still owns the rights to the use of the ‘Healey’ badge, and so far they have steadfastly refused any approaches to see it put back on to a modern car.

On naming policy, I would have thought ‘TR’ is inappropriate to a car which might be based on small/compact car engineering ? Ideally, therefore, it ought to be a re-born Spitfire, but i can’t see the Germans ever doing that, can you ?

And here’s a (financial) opinion – if BMW decide to a stand-alone Triumph, even if it is based on the MIN, then they will need to sell at least 50,000 cars every year for it to make economic sense. In which case, surely, they will have to aim at the Miata/MR2 market sector ?

GRAHAM ROBSON

For someone of my generation (teenager in the 1960s…gasp…) the Sprite/Midget were the first rung on the sportscar ladder. I passed my driving test on a Mk1 Frogeye in 1964. These were no frills, economy cars with not a huge amount of performance even for their era but had a great grin factor and were relatively uncompromising, in the way a true sportscar should be. Since their demise, there hasn’t really been a replacement, in my view, although I realise the MX5/Miata comes close. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have the perceived heritage that comes with the A-H or MG badge. If MINI could do the same for ‘starter’ sportscars as they have for the classic Mini (ie revive the niche) they’d be onto a long-term winner. It seems they are thinking along these lines but can’t use Healey because Healey isn’t available from the family of that name and MG may yet go Chinese (!) So Triumph would be an alternative title. All they have to do is put a lightweight two seat open body on the Cooper and Cooper S platforms and garnish with a Triumph badge and the niche is secured….

Oh! I forgot a couple of things. Out of this 72 cast iron engine pulling 2300lbs of steel I still get 24-30 mpg even when driving like a kid.

And; Rear Wheel Drive! REAL SPORTS CARS ARE REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

I am not the biggest fan of BMW using Brit nostaligia to sell cars however, there is precident for the Triumph cars. Michilotti had designed many cars for Triumph but was busy with other designs when it came time to retool and reform the body for the TR6. Triumph turned to Karman design house..yes Karman Ghia… so with the German connection established I think it would be appropriate for this to happen. I like the idea of the TRX. Let the TR9 be the prototype nomenclature and the production car be the TR X. I would be absolutly opposed to diluting the TRIUMPH name with Mini. The idea of selling them from the same dealerships makes sense and Im sure the salesmen will appreciate an addtional product to sell. I like the idea of simple and entry level. I agree with Skip this car would have to be rear wheel drive and it would need to be similar in feel to the 4/5/6 models. BMW has the tools to bring a car like this to the street and if they do it they should do it justice. I own two TR4′s one TR4A and a 1959 TR3A. Maybe something like the rear of the TR6 smaller but recognizable eyebrows and a smokin inline six. Dual exhausts through the rear valence and the surrey top option. All this riding on top of BMW designed suspension. No Japanese sports car could equal that. This would be the ultimate TR.

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