The Next Generation JCW Cooper S

IanF Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Hmm… so it would appear that they are going towards an “M” approach, vs the current JCW package.

Reply

MINI VANILLI Jan 13th, 2006 Link

220 bhp out of a new 4 banger turbo is not very good at all. The STI and EVO ar up near 300 aren’t they? I mean isn’t this a brand new engine?

Reply

Osmodious Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Bear in mind that the STI and EVO have pretty high boost, from fairly large turbos, so they DO make a lot of power, but at the expense of low-end torque. Obviously, they aren’t slow by any means, but the character of such a motor really doesn’t suit the MINI. After all, people did complain about the lack of low-end power on the pre-2005 Cooper S.

Reply

Jim Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Yeah, that was my thought. It should be a lot easier to get more power out of the turbo than a supercharger.

Reply

b Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Let’s not forget that this is a 1.6L engine. The EVO runs a highly boosted 2.0L and the STI runs a 2.5L. I love how 137.5 hp per litre is all of a sudden a BAD number. I think that would be a real handful as is. Oh ya, maybe if the Mini was an ugily sedan with AWD we could expect more power.

Reply

CeridianMN Jan 13th, 2006 Link

As the proud owner of a new 06 factory JCW + suspension I am a little excited to see what they’re going to do with this. Hearing that it’ll have more power than the current one is no surprise as the entire line will have more power. Hearing that it will be mroe of an in-house “premium” model is a little bit of a bummer as it precludes the idea of getting a baseline cooper S now and adding the JCW in a year – something some have done for various reasons ranging from finances to deciding they want more after trying out the base model. I have only recently broken 1000 miles and even doing what I can to stay in break-in specs I feel like it’ll be a long time before I can truly handle the power of this car – so 300 bhp, to me, seems like overkill. Perhaps in a few years after I’ve managed to get to a driving academy or two my opinion will change though…

Reply

Z4MINI Jan 13th, 2006 Link

An Sti has a 2.5L engine. Almost a whole liter more than a MINI block. With that kind of displacement, it had better put out more HP than a JCW!

(also it costs a bunch more.)

Reply

VanO Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Way to ferret the information, Gabe. There has not been much information of the introduction of the new generation JCW. Do we buy a 2006 JCW not knowing what the new generation JCW will be and when it will be available, or wait it out. This information helps. If it is going to be better and will be available as early as fall 2007, it’s probably worth the wait.

Reply

fdavid Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Personally I think that my MCS 05 has enough power as it is! (i only added a miltek exhaust, Alta CAI, and suspension) Back in 1990 I was a proud owner of a CRX Si turbo intercooler that pulled a nice 12.10 in the qtr mile. That car was scary fast! Nowadays I really enjoy the mini since I don’t like drag racing anymore and for the street I think my car zips through the highway fast enough to scare my girlfriend when we pull into the highway. So…the HP they will be offering seems enough as a starting point.

Reply

Trick Jan 13th, 2006 Link

This makes complete sense, given that for the development of the existing JCW kit JCW wasn’t part of MINI.

If I recall correctly, that changed sometime last year? So of course they can bring it in-house.

Good for MINI, but not so good for enthusiasts? Given the response around here and NAM to including the Sports Package with the factory JCW, I see even fewer people opting in.

Especially when the labor involved to swap chips or load new software is going to pack even more competition into the aftermarket in wringing more juice out of the t’charged powerplant.

It’s going to be an interesting couple of years.

Reply

dr Jan 13th, 2006 Link

So why would anyone buy a GP?

Reply

Siddhartha Jan 13th, 2006 Link

So I’ve got another year to be top dog. Okey-dokey by me. After that, I’m still going to want some verification that a bit more HP and torque is going to make that big a difference between Tritec and PSA powered cars on the track. It’s gonna ba a supercharger vs. turbocharger showdown!

Reply

Z4MINI Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Turbo will win. Much easier to contol the waste gate with the computer. Supercharger is mechanically limited.

Reply

dgszweda Jan 13th, 2006 Link

You cannot compare the STI and EVO with the new mini and the power outputs. 220hp from a 1.6 is quite good period. Secondly, getting much more above 220hp ruins the dynamics of a street car. This is not a racetrack car or a “son of a racetrack car” like the STI and EVO are. This is front wheel drive, light street car. It is all about dynamics. Something that BMW works very hard on with their cars. It is a balance. This is what continually makes BMW’s stand out. If all you are worried about is power and how fast you can go 0-60 in, then I would suggest you look at a Pontiac GTO.

With that said, turbos and superchargers all have their limitations, and I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. It is all in what you are looking for. All of the performance aspects of using a supercharger rely on mechanicals. While the turbo relies on mechanical and computer controlled. They are also somewhat cheaper than a blower.

Reply

Scott Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Shouldn’t the next generation be called a Cooper T?

Reply

BelowRadar Jan 13th, 2006 Link

A lot of interesting info in this little article. In my opinion, selling the Works as a trim level rather than a dealer-service is the right way to go. It will (hopefully) reduce the cost, and also allow Mini to make more dramatic changes to the Works’ models since they can be put together during assembly of the car.

220hp/205lb.ft. sounds good to me so long as the weight of the new car is not increased too much. I also like the idea of “functional” aesthetic additions i.e. larger front vents for cooling. Hopefully, it will give the car a subtle air over the less focused models.

If it’s as good as it sounds, and it doesn’t cost an extra 5k over the standard S (something in the 3-3.5k would be acceptable depending on other refinements), sign me up. If the new Works can’t come in at a decent price, the aftermarket is going to own the new model. For $600, you can buy an APR or GIAC chip that gives the new VW GTI/GLI almost 50 more horses and 75 extra in the torque department. Add a cat-back and you’re done. Ah, turbos…

Reply

Nathaniel Salzman Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Personally I think that my MCS 05 has enough power as it is!

I’m with you – especially with the ‘05 gearing. Before I’d driven the car I was thinking JCW, but after a nice hour-long test drive up and down the highway in KC all by my lonesome, I was convinced that 170 bhp is plenty for me. As for the comparison to EVO’s and and STi’s, not only is the MINI a smaller displacement engine, but the car is a lot lighter as well – so massive amount of bhp isn’t as necessary for good healthy vroom vroom. Sure, all in all those cars may have even still have a slightly higher power:weight, but they’ll never be as charming.

So why would anyone buy a GP?

Given the GP’s rather unimpressive stats, I’ve been wondering that since way before this news broke. The only draw I can see is that it’s rare, not so much because it’s all that special.

I can’t wait until Randy Webb gets his hands on one of the new MCS’s, puts it through its paces, and then starts pushing the power plant. Then we’ll really see what’s possible to get reliably from the engine in terms of power.

Reply

Dave Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Shouldn’t the next generation be called a Cooper T?

No. The S doesn’t stand for supercharged.

Reply

giacomo Jan 13th, 2006 Link

I think …”THE S DOESN’T STAND FOR SUPERCHARGER” …..should be a permanent byline, flag or something on this site.

I agree with fdavid.

Reply

TooLShack Jan 13th, 2006 Link

It’s hard for me to be excited because it’s just more of the same pretty much. They should really make a high end model with AWD. What’s the use of 220HP when you can’t get it to the ground effectively?

Reply

step Jan 13th, 2006 Link

the AWD evo and the sti cant be compared to the mini. the mini is FWD if too much power goes to the wheels- you get torque steer, which affects the handling. 220hp/200t is more than enough power for the mini.

Reply

modboi Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Definitely needs AWD to be able to keep up with the upcoming VW R32 and R36 which is arguably in the same class as the JCW MCS. As of right now, my 05 MCS is having difficulty keeping up with my mate’s lightly modded 04 R32. His R32 came with an impressive list of standard equipment such as bucket seats, 18″ wheels, brembo brakes, and yeah anthracite headliner, not to mention the beefier engine etc. and still a couple of grand cheaper than my fully loaded MCS. I realize that the R32 carries a VW badge but it’s practically an Audi or is Audi practically a VW. I’ll always be loyal to the MINI brand but I think they need to work harder in matching some of their competetors’ performance equipment and price tag.

Reply

modboi Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Before anyone bash me with my last statement, I meant to say, JCW needs to work harder in matching competetors’ performance equipment and pricetag. The base MINI and MCS remains to be the best value for performance and class.

Reply

Jim Harris Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Apexi and HKS, where are you?

We need you to engineer a boost controller and airflow converter for this cool little British/German car we all like.

Reply

LokiSnake Jan 13th, 2006 Link

How about adding in the HUD from the M5 and M6? That’d be übercool!

Reply

TooLShack Jan 13th, 2006 Link

How about something that really adds to the cars performance. “Trim and bodywork details” are nothing but factory rice, give me a nice bump in 0-60 times, add something than just HP and a bunch of stickers.

Reply

Rawhyde Jan 13th, 2006 Link

I’ll be the voice of dissent here…

I have an 05 MCS/JCW, and I love it. I’m generally not a fan of small cars. The MINI is the only one that has a “feel” that I like. I just don’t feel comfortable with other high powered small cars.

I test drove the STi and the Jetta with the turbo. I didn’t care for either. The Jetta was weak feeling to me until 3000 rpm. At that point, the Jetta would SLAM me back into the seat regardless of throttle angle. The bad part to me is that ~3000 rpm is when I naturally wanted to shift gears, so it was an unplesant ride. The STi was another car that felt like all or nothing to me. Sorry, but turbos don’t appeal to me unless the base engine is more torquey. (I did enjoy my test drive in a ‘87 Buick Grand National)

I like the seamless power delivery aspect of the current MCS/JCW powerplant. It just feels good to me. It doesn’t suddenly feel like I pressed the TURBO BOOST button in KITT, it just feels like a powerful engine in a small car. (Just like I like it.) I hope the new MCS/JCW isn’t a peaky car. Maybe it’s great for a race car to work that way, but it gets tiresome on the street.

In regards to the new JCW being more of a total car upgrade, I have to dissent there as well. I got my JCW at delivery, but I put off the decision to the last minute. In the future, owners who dawdle too long won’t have nearly as easy an upgrade path. I like the piecemeal approach offered now, and I especially like the fact that the upgrade(s) can be done in any order and at any time after delivery.

I only have the JCW engine tuning kit, but it’s not like I have a lousy suspension or lousy brakes. As things are now, I can add the other stuff whenever I want.

Rawhyde

Reply

Theo Jan 13th, 2006 Link

Don’t forget that the new JCW turbo engine will be of the twin-scroll variety. That should have a positive effect in the lower rpm range.

I’m guessing that we may be suprised by the torque curve of the JCW variant. Perhaps I’m an optimist, but I expect better low end torque with very little (if any) lag.

Theo

Reply

Bryn Jan 14th, 2006 Link

The hp and torque curves for the proposed engine have already been published. If matched to the right gearing – which will surely be the case – they promise lovely continuous delivery throughout the rev range which should translate to a very smooth and powerful car. As Theo says, a major characteristic of the modern twin-scroll turbocharger is the near absence of lag. Altogether, the spec bodes well. (My only concern is the heat generated by turbos though I confess that my own experience harks back to a pioneering installation (SAAB 99 Rally car in 1981). No doubt, after a quarter of a century’s development, this tendency has been accommodated!

Reply

Greg W Jan 14th, 2006 Link

The S appendage was introduced with the first Cooper 1071cc engined model and means “Special”. See old Mini history sites. Time and time again I hear people say “I had one of those old supercharged Cooper S’s” but old Mini never had a supercharger fitted from the factory, unless it was a clever customisation done by a tuning company. )Old Mini mostly relied on side-draught Weber DCOE 45mm carburettor for racing.

Reply

Greg W Jan 14th, 2006 Link

In the meantime the boys at AC Schnitzer have already made an alternate tuning kit to JCW. Check it out on their website; http://www.acschnitzer.com/englisch/index.html

Reply

GMINI Jan 15th, 2006 Link

Aren’t there a bizillion aftermarket tuners offering upgrade kits (stage 1 stage 2 stage 3 etc) to compete with jcw?

Reply