Is the 2007 MCS Faster than JCW GP? (No)

oh man gabe, way to stir the pot!

i would guess it has to be weight reduction and engine management – nothing else that could produce such results…

Tires as mentioned above could be a factor. The R56 is engineered to use the run-flats better. Does the GP have runflats?

Things that could be a factor even in two identical cars: (not all-inclusive)

1) Tires can make a HUGE difference – even just tire pressures. 2) Weather – cooler air can increase perfomance of the engine and potentially tire grip. 3) Driver – can make a BIG difference 4) Traffic – Lap traffic can slow you down – were these clean laps? 5) Track weight – assuming neither had a passenger and half a tank of gas.

There are others I am sure, but this is what I could think of immediately.

Signed a.k.a SpoilSport :-)

Only way to know for sure is have the same driver take each around. I’d wager the GP would win…

I read recently where a famous professional driver took a Cayman around the Nurburgring and did it eleven seconds faster than another professional driver did it in a Carrera…

As mentioned above, there is a high amount of variability here, and I’m not so sure a track as long as the Nurburgring is inherently accurate. It would be in BMW’s best interest for the new MCS to be that much better than the old one, so although I’m not doubting that the new MCS is faster, I don’t know if you take much stock in it being 15 seconds faster.

Top Gear should have “The Stig” drive both the GP and the R56 then would truly know the difference.

And because superchargers are just much coolers sounding…

:-)

Gabe, On a track, the ‘thickness’ of the powerband is irrelevant – Your not trying unless the car is constantly over at least 5500 revs.

I would suspect the original times of the ‘standard’ R53 being only 14 seconds slower than a GP are probably completly wrong. The GP with 218bhp and seriously uprated suspension and brakes, weight loss, aerodynamics, etc should easily outperform a completly standard car by significantly more than 14 seconds….

I would expect that the GP (if all the hype is to be in anyway believed) would be at least 8-10 seconds faster than a ‘Standard’ 210bhp JCW….

Either that, or the hype about the GP is just that. Hype. Which I dont think it is, judging by the reports.

Bleh, all you people that bought a GP are just mad cuz the R56 will be faster. Don’t worry, we are all still jealous of you, and I’m sure if you can afford a GP, you will be able to buy an R56 in a year or two.

I’m just impressed that MINI may have developed a car that will outperform the previous generation dramatically. We’ll have to wait a few months to see if the information Gabe has provided is true (although I have faith). I have seen many small cars over the past few years get more and more bloated to meet safety standards, and the engines have had to grow to meet the heavier weight. MINI appears to have bucked the trend and designed a second generation car that increased power, increased efficiency, (possibly) increased performance, and (possibly) decreased weight.

I have doubts about the R56 S outperforming the GP, but if all the pre-release rumors prove to be correct, MINI (and BMW) should be applauded for proving that a small car doesn’t have to get bigger to be better; minor length increases aside. ;)

Gabe,

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought I had read that the GP was 14 sec’s quicker than the JCW around the ‘Ring.

From: http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060623.003/country/ecf/MINI/mini-cooper-s-jcw-gp-kit-in-depth

“Comparison tests on the race track prove that the new model offers even better performance than the already outstanding MINI Cooper S with the John Cooper Works Tuning Kit: The MINI Cooper S with the John Cooper Works GP Kit laps the Nordschleife of Nürburgring — without the Grand Prix circuit — in 8 : 41.55 minutes, almost 14 seconds faster than the production model.”

yeah, i’d hope the GP would stay on top for now…considering i put down for one ;)

Well, now it looks like the mystery is the difference in lap times for the current generation Cooper S and the JCW. If that can be located, all the puzzle pieces will fall into place… :D

I wonder if anyone short of a professional driver could actually tell the difference and appreciate it?

This 14 second thing is misleading and perhaps deceiving.

The JCW reference is from this car

8:55 Mini Cooper S Works, 200 hp (sport auto ??/04)

So they are comparing the GP against a MY2004 JCW with both the OLD JCW kit AND the older gearing. The newer gearing should be a lot quicker accelerating out of those 200+ turns and lets add in the additional 10 bhp.

I would imagine a MY05 210 JCW to be very close to the GP times at the ring.

This is very misleading.

The only comprehensive list of Ring times on the Internet (at least that I could find) is here http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073 Other lists tend to refer to this list.

The 2004 JCW 200 car on this list is 14 seconds slower than the GP quoted in here http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2060623.003/page/1/country/ecf/lang/eng/mini/mini-cooper-s-jcw-gp-kit-in-depth and noted by Diego above.

The logical conclusion is that we are talking about the same car as that is the only published time for a JCW. If it were a 2005 JCW 210, I would presume it would have to be quicker. However, I cannot definitively say that is true but I think this is a very good and logical conclusion.

GPMINI – you’ve got my name! ;)

Sorry? Looks like your name is Ian.

My favorite Nurburgring lapping is a woman kicking major butt in a Ford Transit Van

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1135852351/Top_Gear_NÃÆ'¼rburgring

It’s all down to the driver anyway! There is guys kicking my butt in a MINI One on the Nordschleife, so relax anyone. (And I have done over 60 fast laps on the Nordschleife in my MCS – so I’m not a beginner.)

GPMINI – note the smiley in my original comment, and then see http://www.gpmini.net/mtblog/ ;)

not to get too far off track here but with BMWs RWD cars, each generation’s standard model stands close to the outgoing generation’s ‘tuned’ variant. e.g. the E36 M3 sedan rough equivalent to E46 330i is roughly equivalent to E90 328i in power and torque production – tracks get wider and body strength:mass ratios, high speed lift and suspension kinematics are better managed with successive generations as well.

i’m not saying i believe 14 seconds, but if the new Cooper car has the flat bottom that the current 5 and 3 series cars sport for example I could see that as bringing the standard car to roughly where the GP stands in aero managment, surely a much bigger deal on a high speed track like the ring.