New York Times on the MINI & the 1 Series

Wayne D. Jan 20th, 2007 Link

Looks like the link was missing, so I went out and found this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/automobiles/18bump.html

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GSKChicago Jan 20th, 2007 Link

“You’re moving the car halfway out of one brand slot and into another brand slot,” said David E. Davis, editor of Winding Road, an online car magazine. “It does have the effect of moving the car up one level to the next price class or the next size class.”

Most car companies move up class with each re-design. The 3-Series is not as attainable price was as it was say 15 or so years ago. Size wise it has grown too.

I don’t see the 1-Series as a class move up from the MINI. They do – in my mind – have a different image projection. There will be some overlap at the higher price points of the MINI to the lower end of the 1-Series, I would think. But I expect that to be more the exception than the rule.

It’s going to be interesting to see the reception received. Plus, people are still out to lunch with their opinion of the new ‘07 MINI, so who knows?

Just my humble observations.

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David Jan 20th, 2007 Link

I think this is less of an issue that some here think it is. BMW has always had overlapping “slots” in their brand structure. A specced-out 3er costs more than the entry 5er, but they don’t compete. They’re different cars with a different personalities.

Granted, the two-door 1er has more in common with a MINI than a 3er has with a 5er, but the point remains. There will be some cannibalism, but take, for example, a guy with a growing family with a budget of 45k or so chooses between the high-performance 335i, or goes with the 530i so that he doesn’t have to always drive the minivan on trips. Either way he’s buying a BMW. Same goes for the MINI — specced-out FWD gokart, or spend a few more dollars and have a faster, more prestigious RWD coupe?

In fact, I think it’s a good move. BMW is a prestige brand in this country. But with entry level 3ers now >$30k, they really need to bridge the gap between the excellent MINI, and what many consider to be an over-priced 3er.

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vin. Jan 20th, 2007 Link

My understanding is that BMW will be bringing a convertible and 2-door coupe (perhaps coupe-convertible) version of the 1-Series to the US, not the hatch version(s).

Carspyshots.net had some pics last year of these two cars testing in a snowy climate, but I can’t seem to find them anywhere in the series of tubes today.

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Gabe Jan 20th, 2007 Link

My understanding is that BMW will be bringing a convertible and 2-door coupe (perhaps coupe-convertible) version of the 1-Series to the US, not the hatch version(s).

Not according to WindingRoad or this week’s Autoweek.

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Gary Jan 20th, 2007 Link

The thing about the BMW 1 Series (3-door) and the Audi A3 is that they are smaller versions of another model that is already known. They look familiar, but also a bit strange. They are recognisable, but it takes a second look to see what they really are when you look at them from the side.

There will still be lots of room for the BMW MINI in any market.

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OH Steve Jan 20th, 2007 Link

What David said.

How many automakers have four door sedans that overlap? The 1 series isn’t a MINI. Will some buyers purchase a 1 series to replace their aging MINI? Probably, but who cares? Lot’s of people driving Camrys used to drive Corollas. Still lots of new Corollas on the road.

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msh441 Jan 20th, 2007 Link

Having seen the A3 and BMW 1 series in Europe, I can see it POSSIBLY being competition for the upcoming R58 Travellor… but it’s hard to compare it to the R50/53/56 MINI in anything else other than price point.

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Hans Jan 21st, 2007 Link

The BMW 1 series is 24″ longer than tha present Mini…. two different cars.

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FR Walter Jan 21st, 2007 Link

I see the two door 1 series as a true replacement for the 2002. I don’t see the MINI as that at all. Two different cars………

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Brian Jan 21st, 2007 Link

The A3 didn’t work out in the US because people thought it to be a “lesser” A4. One would rather buy a “proper” hatch like a Golf GTI than an A3.

Point is that the 1 series could suffer the same way. Hopefully not because i like the car.

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FrankInMiami Jan 21st, 2007 Link

Brian, the Audi A3 flopped in the US market because the car is too darn expensive! Audi outpriced themselves out of the intended A3 market by having a $25K BASE price for the 2.0T 4cyl model and well over $30K for a well equipped A3 V6.

Believe me I checked them out. The A3 is a “fancier” version of the VW Rabbit and for all accounts is a very competent car, but it is as expensive as Audi’s own A4 sedan. Heck for near the same money as a loaded A3 you could have gotten a better looking and more spacious (relatively speaking) Audi A4 Avant wagon.

Also what killed the A3 is that it was priced almost in the same bracket as a “base” BMW 3 series sedan. Which one would you choose? the A3 or a RWD, 50/50 6-inline Bimmer? That is not a brainer!

The A3 would have been a success at $20K base price, not $25K.

Americans are much more welcoming than ever before of the new generation of hatchbacks. MINI is clear proof of the success of a small european hatchback, effectively, kncking down any old “stereotypes” of hatchbacks being considered less than desirable vehicle choices. That was 10 years ago, that no longer holds true.

Hear, hear BMW with the 1 series…

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FrankInMiami Jan 21st, 2007 Link

Automakers are the only ones that perpetuate the old, stupid and tired stereotype of “Americans will never embrace hatchbacks”. That is a LIE as we all know here very well.

When BMW stops playing games and chicken out by not bringing the 1 series here, then they are the only ones to blame. Americans have already embraced hatchbacks, they are craving for more, not less.

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HEMI-MINI Jan 21st, 2007 Link

Volvo has a small hatchback on the way so this is to be expected from BMW. I no Mercedes did a hatchback before in the past…wonder if they will do it again. The hatchback segment has gotten a lot of attention from the automakers here recently si am expecting to see a lot more.

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Brian Jan 21st, 2007 Link

Well i guess i didn’t make my point clear. People were not going to pay for an A3 if it cost almost the same as the A4, because it is a lesser car than an A4 or 3 series “for the money”. They’d rather pay 20 for a GTI than 25 and up for 3/4 of an A4.

I still stand by what I said. I don’t know if Americans in general have opened up more to hatches or not. I live in South Florida so i wont speak for the country. Also, in the case of the MINI, because of its heritage is not just a hatch… its a MINI, so i would categorize that as people feeling strongly about the MINI because its cool rather than Americans wanting hatchbacks. All car sales point to crossovers being what Americans are embracing rather than small cars.

If the 1 series is too expensive, it doesn’t matter how good it is, the perception will be that it is lees than a 3 series and therefore people wont buy it if the price is up there with the 3.

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Greg W Jan 22nd, 2007 Link

In NZ we’ve had both 116 4 cyl and MINI selling alongside each other since 1 series came out. 116 is NZ$39,995, MINI Cooper NZ$38,995. Exchange rate NZ$1 = US$0.67. USA will not take 116 or 118 so its the 6 cyl for you guys. As previous comments – two different cars, two different buyers. Personally I’d go for the VW Golf over the 1 series any day – more rear seat room and front wheel drive.

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Mark Jan 22nd, 2007 Link

I don’t see how this is any different than Toyota introducing the Yaris after establishing the Scion brand. BMW is far more performance oriented than Toyota, but thw two won’t interfere all that much. There are pleanty of people who would like to drive a Beemer, but can’t afford a new 3 series. (didn’t Mercedes try this with the C230 hatch? I thought the “experts” said hatchbacks don’t sell in the USA.) Bring on the competition!

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vin. Jan 24th, 2007 Link

Not according to WindingRoad or this week’s Autoweek.

Check out this article on mwerks.com:

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/features/article_1176.shtml

vin.

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