This week a story was posted by Globe and Mall about needing cleaner fuel in Canada. There were also some quotes from a few automakers, most notibly, BMW.
>”We need a clean diesel fuel in Canada,” said Lindsay Duffield, president of BMW Canada Inc., whose company will start selling diesel vehicles in Canada next year and is considering bringing in a diesel version of its Mini that now sells in Europe.
It is nice that there is at least one place in North America where BMW is thinking about offering the MINI Cooper D for sale. Canada has less stringent emissions requirements than the US, which makes it easier to bring that car there. But with the lower number of MINIs sold in Canada versus the US, I can’t imagine them selling a very high number of these cars.
[ Auto Officials Call for Cleaner Fuel ] Globeandmall.com
DB, you’re correct about Canada being a smaller market, but I think there’s a greater awareness and appreciation from the car buying public for the diesel alternative here. Witness the success of Smart and Volkswagen, two companies who have seen strong sales for their diesel offerings. I just drove my Pure Silver 06 MC from Toronto to Charlottetown – the day I arrived, a passerby stopped to say how much he loved the car, and asked if there was a diesel version available… I responded that at this point, the diesel was only available overseas. His wife then pulled up in their diesel Jetta. I have colleagues who have been buying nothing other than diesel vehicles for years. I have a feeling there would be a lot of interest amongst Canadian diesel fans for the MINI D. Let’s hope they bring it over really soon!
CA also has some sort of government rebate for high milage cars.
I don’t see why BMW/MINI can’t sell a Diesel MINI in those States where it does meet the emission standards, and not offer it in States where the standards are too stringent. Other Diesel car manufactures do this, for example Mercedes Benz.
seriously, how hard would it be to add the option where it could be sold?
I wonder what the difficulty would be in buying a Mini D in Canada and then driving it home for registration. As I do not live in a state which has out of control air quality problems or restricitons.
The funny part is the nation that from corner to corner is covered with inefficient land-going whales (better known as SUV’s) is turning its nose up at the high mileage Cooper D. Makes me laugh hard every time I hear about one of the states that has rules in place to block the Mini D. How can they say this with a straight face when they each still have high populations of monster suv’s, and super duty etra extra spewing diesel pickups. Match this with the driving habits of most people and you end up in a place where 90% of all really inefficient vehicles currently sold are usually occupied by one person. Makes me laugh hard when I hear that the Mini D nox emissions are bad for the environment as I set on the highway chocking on the fumes from anyone of a thousands spewing SUV’s.
This is just my way of saying, way to go Canada, and that Mini USA is kinda falling down on the job when Mini has a real potential Pirius killer. Instead we see Mini USA pushing forward to produce a SUV lol.
Looks like LeMans this year will help start to eradicate the myth that diesels are not performance cars.
<a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/diesels-capture-the-top-five-spots-on-the-le-mans-grid/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/diesels-capture-the-top-five-spots-on-the-le-mans-grid/</a>
The Cooper D is regularly trouncing hybrids in the MPG stakes and its so clean that its going to be exempt from the London congestion charge so the only problem will be making enough to supply the population of Southern England, sorry but there won’t be enough left to sell anywhere else 😀
Ok, I give… Why is diesel considered clean overseas, but thought of by certain states to be worse than the SUV gas swilling monsters that I see picking up a cart of groceries at the supermarket?
Does anyone have a link to a good description or essay of what the issues with diesel in the US are in order to ‘edumacate’ me?
I see a ton of VW TDI’s around town. Almost bought one myself back in 2000, but ended up with a gas Jetta (which I sold this spring…tired of the quality issues with this car). At that time, the cost premium for the diesel engine could not be justified for the low annual milage I would put on the car (I figured it would take me 7 years to break even). You have to factor in your travel distances and determine if it is worth the extra cost of the engine. With fuel costs today, the equation makes more sense than just a few years ago. Mini already sells a lot of cars here in Canada. The Mini D would do well. Keep in mind that Canadians buy more smaller vehicle per capita than Americans (although, when you’re in Alberta, you often feel like you’re in Texas…lost of SUV’s and Super Duties). Another point…VW had to temporarily discontinue the TDI’s in Canada to adjust their diesel emissions to meet slightly tighter standards (you can find some relevant news on Minis in Canada by doing a search at <a href="http://www.canadiandriver.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.canadiandriver.com</a>).
hmm, time to make a trip to Canada. Purchase a D then head to the junk yard to get the salvage title and VIN off a wrecked MINI. 😉
This posting confirms my early comments about MINIUSA’s lousy decision to not to import the Cooper D into the United States. Sometimes I think that the MINIUSA management is either too inept or too naive not to recognize the huge market potential a diesel MINI affords here. Look, Canada doesn’t even sell a third of the total MINI production in the States. MINI Canada manages to sell, let’s say 3K to 5K cars per year that is a drop in the bucket to the 40K units MINIUSA sells here anually. So there you go… Myth #1 that there is no market for a Diesel MINI in the USA D-E-B-U-N-K-E-D.
Audi last year said that they would not be bringing the Audi RS4 convertible to the US market. Just a few weeks ago, Audi reversed their initial position and confirmed that they will bring the car after all for the 2008 MY. Typical German way of doing business.
Watch in 1 year MINIUSA reversing their position about the Cooper D as well.
The beancounters have taken MINIUSA hostage…
>So there you go… Myth #1 that there is no market for a Diesel MINI in the USA D-E-B-U-N-K-E-D.
I think it would be easy to get upset with MINI USA if the issue simply came down to a few million dollars in engineering costs. However when you really look into this there are several issues at play.
Let me clear some of this up since I spoken with folks at MINI USA about this many times over the years. First off they would <strong>love</strong> to bring the Cooper D over here. It would be a win win and they know that. The problem comes down to economics, interior space and who they buy their engines from.
The Cooper D’s engine is 100% from Puegoet (unlike the current MINI engine which was designed by BMW in partnership with PSA). As you know Puegoet doesn’t sell cars in the US and has no plans to. That means that the costs associated with federalizing the engine would have to come from MINI USA (not MINI) themselves. Given that MINI USA doesn’t have budget to engineer <strong>ANYTHING</strong> let alone an entire urea injection system for maybe 2k sales, a project of this magnitude and cost would be way way over their heads.
But lets put aside the costs of all this (for MINI USA and the consumer) for a second. There’s also the very serious issue of the space to put the urea injection system. I’m told that it could likely end up taking <em>half</em> the already small boot. Even on a Clubman this would be a huge strike against non-enthusiasts buying this car.
Don’t get me wrong… I think they should find a way to make all of this happen. But there are more issues at play here than simply bean counters not wanting to spend a couple extra million dollars.
Well I actually don’t blame MiniUSA as much as I lay the blame on BMW. Sad part is that they don’t want to sell it here since it can’t be sold in all the states, hence a good portion of the market would be off for them. My question is would the sales in the remaining US states equal those of Canada, my money is on more sales in the States than Canada even with the loss of some prime markets.
Thats ok after all they are saving their funds so they can make a SUV to join the throngs of SUVs on the road. Mini 2009 moto “Large is now in charge”? Don’t mean to be hostile just have 0% patience for bean counters. I fear that by the time Mini gets into the market for much more efficient cars here in the States they will be years to late to capture much of a market. Kinda like producing a SUV a decade late 😉
Gabe I see your point, but Jon said it right.
<blockquote>Makes me laugh hard when I hear that the Mini D nox emissions are bad for the environment as I set on the highway chocking on the fumes from anyone of a thousand spewing SUV’s.</blockquote> For those with SUV’s, I’m not bashing, just comparing.
Still I would do the trip to Montreal, buy the MINI D and drive back to Miami. Anybody know if that’s legal?
If only it were so easy – the car would have to meet US regulations or you could not register it and could risk having it literally “crushed” if caught driving it fraudulently.
With diesel fuel currently selling for about the same price as regular here in my town, the payback time would be very long if the D cost more than the Cooper. However, the government rebate could equalize that somewhat, as the D would likely qualify for the full $2000.00. The Cooper alreday qualifies for a $1000.00 rebate. We shall see, but I do not call myself a diesel “fan” and I still would likely not buy one. I will reserve final judgement until I see if there will be a Clubman D. While it would not replace my R56, it might make a good choice for my wife, as she has a 20 mile commute (one way) to work.
So MINI Canada can afford the urea injection system?
no – Canada’s laws don’t require it, so we must point a finger at our rules and not Mini…
Just for the record, the 2008 VW TDI Bluetec engine will be 50-state US legal and will NOT require urea injection. BMW could do this, make money, and increase interest in all MINI vehicles, IF they wanted to. For BMW to require MINI USA to foot the bill for this is absurd and shortsighted.
Honda Ridgeline.(could use for towing my boat) …may be a CLEAN (tier2 Bin5) DIESEL in 2008 and of course there’s the Tiguan (VW)…which panic’s me to think about due to its lack of reliability.
If the 2008 Jetta TDI won’t need a urea injection system, what are the reasons that the Mini D would need one?
from <a href="http://autos.netscape.com/story/2007/01/25/2008-vw-jetta-tdi-bluetec-diesel/" rel="nofollow">netscape.com</a>
>This clean diesel Jetta meets the lowest emissions standards without the use of urea injection. Instead, a nitrogen oxide storage catalyst reduces NOx emissions by up to 90 percent. The engine management system in the Jetta changes operating modes periodically to treat the NOx that has been stored in the catalytic converter. A particulate filter in
Well, I wish we were as progressive as these comments imply, but the word from MINI Canada is as follows..and I quote…
Thank you for contacting MINI Canada.
We appreciate your time to write us with your comments regarding the availability of the MINI Cooper D in Canada.
We would begin by stating that a lot of market research is undertaken to determine the demand of this model by our customers and MINI Canada has evaluated such market information however we do not have plans to launch the MINI Cooper D in the near future.
We trust the above information will be helpful and has responded clearly to your inquiry. Your patronage of our products and services is genuinely appreciated.
Sincerely,
MINI Canada
Gabe,
Mini Cooper D does not use urea injection. It uses a particulate filter and more efficient engine (ie common rail) much like other smaller/midsize diesel vehicles debuting in US 2008. Larger vehicles may require/feature urea injection but not the Mini. That cannot possibly be a reason not to sell it in the U.S.
I also don’t understand your comment on parts sourcing as a reason.
With much improved mpg figures for the 2008 gas versions and engrained idea that US only cares about horsepower and acceleration Mini must figure that is good enough for U.S. since the gas versions still will get more mpg’s than almost all other US cars but have the performance too…so D isn’t necessary yet. There is no technical reason why the D could not be in the US.
>Mini Cooper D does not use urea injection. It uses a particulate filter and more efficient engine (ie common rail) much like other maller/midsize diesel vehicles debuting in US 2008. Larger vehicles may require/feature urea injection but not the Mini. That cannot possibly be a reason not to sell it in the U.S.
Yup – very aware of that. If urea was mentioned it was in conjunction with a possible solution to making it available in the US.