2009 Factory JCW MCS

VMMVMMM Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Sounds like an MTTS II star to me!

TimmyCooper Jul 16th, 2007 Link

This sounds like a good replacement for my 05 Dinan MCS. I hope they don’t bump the price up too much–it already gets quite high when you add some goodies to the stock MCS. I’m interested to see what Gabe’s stage 1 performs like. Thanks for keeping us up to date!

Jay Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Ah Gabe, this post is just another tease! Damn you! When do we get the real details?

BrewSwapGuy Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Gabe, obviously if it includes LSD then this Stage II won’t be availble for those with the Auto trans. You last posted about the auto availability as saying it’s not 100% fact that the JCW kits won’t be available for the auto trans this go around (R56). Any other word on this?

Paul C. Jul 16th, 2007 Link

AWD, AWD, AWD, AWD…….and make it scream!!!

Gabe Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Gabe, obviously if it includes LSD then this Stage II won’t be availble for those with the Auto trans.

Yes that’s true. I totally forgot to mention that. I’ll change the article above.

Adam Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Timmy: he already stated it would be the same or lower in terms of price possibly, so I doubt there will be a price bump

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Fantastic!

I have been waiting for a long while for this news, glad to hear it. Can’t wait for more details, while I am sure there are those that will not be happy that this is not going to be offered with a automatic the inclusion of the LSD is mandatory for this car.

I would love it if they would also do a couple extra things for the car. possibly a update of a JCW aerodynamic kit, something that could be exclusive to this car. I would also like to see it offered with a couple of extra colors, maybe something like the non-metallic orange and a true black. Think this could go a long ways to help this car stand out like the GP does.

Adam Jul 16th, 2007 Link

I know this will be my future car. Will probably grab it in 2010.

JCW Seats etc were always extra right?

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

So far Adam no word if the JCW seats will come over to the US if thats where your located. Still an option that I along with a great many others would love to see though. Not sure if the seats where extra on the last models outside of the US but I would think so since the JCW was a kit.

eager2own Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Any word on whether this will be immediately available (or shortly thereafter) for the ‘09 cabrio?

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Good question, I am guessing here but I don’t know if we will see a Cabrio factory JCW or not, if its designed with similar philosophy to the GP I would guess not, but I believe that it does have a chance. Personally I always lean towards the coupe for the rigidity that it gives the car, rare to see a topless that is ever as stable or quick as a hardtop.

Ken Jul 16th, 2007 Link

mini2.com has reported the factory JCW stage II output around 212 bhp.

Lee L Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Well, adding the Suspension and Body kit make this finally worth the cost of the original R53 kit IMO.

nuvolari Jul 16th, 2007 Link

This is good. Having the highest performance version available with only manual transmission is as it should be, and as it was with the MCS for the first years of production. Let’s hope they will allow you to configure it without any price-bloating “packages”. The requirement of the “Sport” package on the last factory JCW was shameless.

Gabe - will the Stage II JCW feature all of the new fuel economy technology?

scott Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Well this should be a sweet car! Is this the same JCW suspension that’s about to come out…speaking of that, when will that be out?? Oh yeah, isn’t this factory JCW car supposed to have an engine similar to the challenge car?

Gabe Jul 16th, 2007 Link

The requirement of the “Sport” package on the last factory JCW was shameless.

I agree.

will the Stage II JCW feature all of the new fuel economy technology?

I’m not sure. I can almost guarantee it won’t be on the cars in the US market.

michael salazar Jul 16th, 2007 Link

hmmmm that is very likely to be the rev 2.0 of my MINI…question is do i trade in or just buy and have two of them.

Jon E Jul 16th, 2007 Link

This sounds like the car that I’ve been waiting for. However, I’m not willing to wait until Sept. 2008 to place my order. It looks like I’ll “make do” with a 2008 MCS with the Stage I JCW upgrade. Possibly I’ll upgade to the Stage II in a couple of years. Gabe: I’m really anxious to hear what you have to say about your new Mini. Hope it arrives soon.

eto Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Wow… this has… adjusted my thinking on my MINI (whenever I finally get it). If the Factory JCW is around 26-27k, I might just drop every option I want and get just the one. :)

zack Jul 16th, 2007 Link

DSG, please.

James Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Seems like MINI may be lining this up to counter the inevitable interest in the Fiat 500 Abarth if it reaches the US at the end of the decade.

It might be a tough choice…

MQuin Jul 16th, 2007 Link

people are going to be waiting forever to get the mini cooper they want because each year they come up with new options…..

Ken Jul 16th, 2007 Link

“Wow… this has… adjusted my thinking on my MINI (whenever I finally get it). If the Factory JCW is around 26-27k, I might just drop every option I want and get just the one. :)”

I think it’ll be closer to $30-33$

Squaregarte Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Will the R56-JCW2 be a good daily drive if the roads are less than smooth? Will the suspension be too hard/stiff?

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

My bet is on it being a tad stiff but still more than acceptable for normal roads. I would expect it to be very similar to the GP for overall feel.

Would love it they gave a lightweight option too. Its a great way to improve any car and has a proven track record with the GP. As a current JCW driver I can say I really look forward to a non kit JCW, this will finally make this option worth much more.

eto Jul 16th, 2007 Link

I think it’ll be closer to $30-33$

I’m basing my price on this statement:

And it was also rumored to come to market at a slightly lower price-point than the previous R53 model. Our sources have re-affirmed all of this with the latest information we’ve received.

Since the previous gen JCW kit was $6k, then the current Cooper S @ $21,500 + $650 + ~ $6000 which would be $28,150. Ok… higher than my estimate, but it would still be a good deal if there aren’t any build requirements like the Sport Package was in the R53.

O(=^=)O Capn Jul 16th, 2007 Link

The real question is Gabe going to drop his JCWI for JCWII when it finally comes out?

Nigel Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Something like this may help me overlook the reservations I currently have about the R56, but I will wait for either a 50th anniversary edition or the next R56 facelift.

I think it is well worth to wait a year or so to get a factory JCW car. To me those are way more desirable than the dealer installed one

-Nigel
Proud Member of MININUTS

john m Jul 16th, 2007 Link

This mite tempt me back from my TYPE RGT

nuvolari Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Gabe - Sorry if I missed this, but will the Stage II JCW treatment be available for the Clubman? Because that would rawk.

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

I gues a JCW2 on a Clubman would be possible, however why?? Why put a top end sport setup on a car that will be slower than a coupe and less able to handle curves. Could be possible but I hope not.

nuvolari Jul 16th, 2007 Link

The same reason Audi produces an RS4 Avant.

Nigel Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Jon, how do you know the Clubman will be slower than the coupe and “less able to handle curves”? Have you driven the R55? I am curious as to how you arrive to such definite conclusions….

Crusoe Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Since it comes with the aero kit then it’ll likely NOT have both an uprated head AND/OR charger. Since the Stage I kit is very similar to the $1100 Ol’ MC Sound Kit but $1000 more seems the premium may be going up for the JCW brand.
So itemized it might look like this:
$2100 Stage I (seems overpriced by ~$500)
$800 Suspension
$1300 Aero Kit
$500 LSD
~$4700 so that leaves room for a TC or Head but not both … and maybe injectors.

nuvolari Jul 16th, 2007 Link

I gues a JCW2 on a Clubman would be possible, however why?? Why put a top end sport setup on a car that will be slower than a coupe and less able to handle curves?

For the same reasons Audi produces the RS4 Avant.

Jon Jul 16th, 2007 Link

I understand your view Nuvolari its the reason why long term I could see both the Clubman and Carbio both having access to this, although I think it should remain coupe only. I see it being more like the GP than about the old JCW kits, truly depends how Mini views this though. I am ok with whatever they decide to do. Personally I am looking for a quicker way around the track, something neither the cabrio or clubman will do over the coupe.

Avitor Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Tell me it’s available in Lightning/Hyper/Indi blue and I’m sold… Okay, I’m sold anyway, but it would be nice.

Gabe Jul 16th, 2007 Link

The real question is Gabe going to drop his JCWI for JCWII when it finally comes out?

Nope.

nuvolari Jul 16th, 2007 Link

Personally I am looking for a quicker way around the track, something neither the cabrio or clubman will do over the coupe.

That depends on who is driving…

Jon Jul 17th, 2007 Link

No doubt Nuvolari, you won’t get any argument on that ;)

TonyT3 Jul 17th, 2007 Link

Is it true that its going to weigh 200lbs less than the standard car….?

Dimitri Jul 17th, 2007 Link

I gues a JCW2 on a Clubman would be possible, however why?? Why put a top end sport setup on a car that will be slower than a coupe and less able to handle curves. Could be possible but I hope not.

I have spoken to our local brand manager for MINI in Russia after she returned from the internal Clubman test drive and she said that although the car has become longer and a bit ehavier, it managed to maintain all the qualities, that made the MINI stand out from the corwd.

Ron Jul 17th, 2007 Link

Everyone seems to take it for granted that because the kit requires LSD, you can’t get this on an automatic transmission car. Why? I’m not mechanical expert so maybe I’m missing something obvious… but I have read of applications where a LSD was available with an automatic transmission. Is it just because of the limited space in the MINI’s engine compartment after the install of the automatic transmission?

Ron Jul 17th, 2007 Link

Grr, I hate typos. “I’m NO mechanical expert” not “I’m NOT mechanical expert”. Just in case that really made it hard to understand what I meant.

Jon Jul 17th, 2007 Link

Dimitri,

No doubt that the Clubman si still going to be fun, but the increase in length comes at the cost of heavier weight, this is added to a longer wheelbase that has the same width just means that the heavier weight of the car will shift back further from the drive wheels.

I certainly not bashing the Clubman, its going to be a fun little car for sure. Just not something that will do a better job at sport over the coupe. I would like Mini to limit the JCW 2 to the coupe only, think this could also allow smaller development costs to Mini.

David T Jul 17th, 2007 Link

Jon,

A longer wheel base might actually make the Clubman easier to drive around a track than the coupe, so even with the extra weight, a novice might be faster. A skilled race driver can handle the shorter wheelbase and get more out of the lighter weight. Also, I assume you mean the center of gravity moves away from the drive wheels since weight is not removed from the front end. I seriously doubt that there will be a traction problem with 212 hp on the track, especially if you get a proper set of track wheels. My 06 JCW with LSD has no trouble maintaining traction under hard acceleration while turning in the rain (I know it has less torque than the 08). The extra room in the clubman would make it easy to transport the track tires! There are some Porche drivers in Texas who were astonished when a non-turbo ‘99 A4 Avant passed them on the track! The extra weight in back helped the weight distribution….

I prefer the coupe myself but why shouldn’t those that need more luggage capacity get to have fun also?

David T Jul 17th, 2007 Link

One more thought,

There is a very real possibility that the Clubman will have less drag at high speed so while it would accelerate slower, it might have a higher top end. I wish my Mini had lower drag because I usually drive fast and the gas mileage suffers.

Jon Jul 17th, 2007 Link

David,

Not saying the Clubman is going to be slow however every day a lightweight version of the same basic plateform will be faster. My point about weight transfer is that the Mini is a front wheel drive, as accelerate the (heavier)weight of the Clubman will move to the rear futher away from the drive wheels. A shorter wheelbase also inheritly makes a sharper corner since the rear pivot point is closer to the turning wheels. Finally the two cars have the same frontal cross section so their drag coefficients are going to be very simular.

Not telling anyone that the Clubman can’t be a strong performer but I believe the JCW2 should remain on the best possible platform.

nuvolari Jul 18th, 2007 Link

Jon - Given that Mini produced automatic JCW R53s, I don’t think they share your belief.

I predict that by the time the JCW II “coupe” comes out, there will be sufficent aftermarket suspension, engine and brake bits available to take even the Clubman far beyond it, for much less money.

Nigel Jul 18th, 2007 Link

Jon, prepare yourself to be smoked by the R55 S. :)

Jon Jul 18th, 2007 Link

I hear you nuvolari, but think the info we already have seen some info on this. First of all I think long term the stage 1 kit will be available to the entire brand. However as what Gabe shared with us in the initial story above you can already see the automatic isn’t going to be offered. Not sure if this will be true over the long term. I am sure though that they are looking at the development costs versus historical sales data and the proposed sales numbers to figure out what they will do.

Your second statment about after market could be true, but if you take the exact same components and put them on a coupe and then on the clubman, the coupe will still be faster around the track, its just basic phyics.

Nigel Jul 18th, 2007 Link

Really Jon? Can you enlighten us with your physics calculations? :)

scott Jul 18th, 2007 Link

Yeah Jon, I’m setup man on a race team and am study mechanical engineering, so what are you talking about?

Jon Jul 18th, 2007 Link

Probably the best single way to understand what I am talking about its this. Just remember the three basic laws that Newton gave to us and consider the following.

A=M/F

Hence the lighter car will always out accelerate the heavier car. Also the longer car will shift its greater mass further away from the drive wheels. Also breaking will also follow suite, a greater mass takes longer to deaccelerate, though the greater mass moveing over the wheels will assist the car. With equal breaking force the lighter vehicle will stop first.

While cornering the heavier vehicle takes greater force to overcome its inertia to make the corner. Add to this that all cars basically “pivot” on the inner rear wheelbase the longer wheelbase will not turn as sharp as the shorter wheelbase.

If we take two cars with the performance setup the lighter shorter wheelbase car will out accelerate, break, and corner the heaver longer wheelbase. Don’t get me wrong, I am sure the Clubman will move nicely, but never as well as the coupe. I believe that if you build a car with being the best performace possible you ahould stick with the best possible platform.

nuvolari Jul 19th, 2007 Link

Jon, I hereby challenge you to a time trial event at Sears Point sometime in 2009. You in a Stage II JCW “coupe”, and me in my aftermarket-tweaked Clubman. You are going down hard, sir. :)

Jon Jul 19th, 2007 Link

Ohh love Sears Point, and I would love nothing more that seeing more Mini’s out playing on the track. Win, lose, or draw track time for Mini’s is a win/win process. It allows drivers to improve their control skills and for us to play with performance and speed in an area devoid of others. This is true even for a lumbering Mini station wagons ;).

Would love to have a Clubman’s on the track, but having said that I will keep Mr. Newton riding co-pilot ok :)

John Aug 5th, 2007 Link

This will be right about the time I make the final payment on my 05 MCS. As you all say in Jolly Ole England, “Perfect”.
This sounds exactly like what I’ll want when it gets here. Whats the USA delivery time expected to be?

PGT Aug 30th, 2007 Link

250hp, 8k redline and AWD will get me to sell my R53 for an R56, otherwise I’ll head back to Subaru and get 330hp, AWD and four doors for the same money as an R56 JCW StgII.

ScottRiqui Sep 22nd, 2007 Link

Jon, I’ll assume that your butchery of Newton’s second law was a typo, but it’s F=MA, or M=F/A, or A=F/M.

Jimny Crockett Sep 22nd, 2007 Link

Do you suppose MINI would be be as audacious as VW and create a mid-engined monster? The VW uber Golf (nee Rabbit) rockets to 200 mph plus via a transplanted Bentley W12. BMW certainly has the expertise to perform this kind of exciting surgery to stir the imaginations and emotions of MINI-ites everywhere. Why not … what are they waiting for? VW is not content to remain upstaged by any other hot hatches — including MINI. Get movin’ MINI before the keylight does!

JCW Engine kit or Body KIt - MINI2 Sep 27th, 2007 Link

[...] tuning kit based or more brakes suspension and tuning kit all at once, as would not be for me. MotoringFile » Archive » 2009 Factory JCW MCS: The Stage II But it appears that it’s due 2009 and will only be factory fitted. Rams YouTube - Mini World [...]

JCW Stage 2 kit? - MINI2 Oct 6th, 2007 Link

[...] heard slightly different and there is a write up on hear MotoringFile » Archive » 2009 Factory JCW MCS: The Stage II About a JCW stage 2 Factory Kit, not a dealer accessory. but its a while away yet and things can [...]

Mike Manzi Oct 25th, 2007 Link

Well, pursuant to my comment on the 07 JCW kit release board, this seems more like it as far as being like my 04 JCW MCS. Still wondering about the torque steer (and turbo vs supercharger) though. Oh well, I guess I have plenty of time between now and Sept of 08 to think about it.

Dr Obnxs Nov 4th, 2007 Link

A longer wheel base will keep more weight on the front wheels. It’s the same reason that some FWD cars use drag bars. If you’re interested into this more, check out the endyn site. There’s a long technical article about it. Has to do with lever arm length.

But we’ll see what’s up here. They have to do something because Minis butt is being kicked all over the map in the HP games. And while I’m the first to admit that HP isn’t the say all, end all, do all, there are a lot that buy based on this number. And like PGT says, for similar bucks, you sure can get more HP in an AWD package.

Matt

Noel Jackson Apr 9th, 2008 Link

Is this story still true? Will there be a Stage II kit?

Gabe Apr 10th, 2008 Link

Of course it’s true. The car was released at the Geneva autoshow last month and will be going into production this June.