Audi Planning a MINI Killer?

demapples Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

The concept is interesting. How will Mini respond to this challenge? My personal feeling is that this new competition directed squarely at Mini will only enhance Mini’s products down the road. As Mini’s customers, more competition means better products and pricing is in our future. Can a 200+ HP AWD Cooper S be far off?

MiniMatt Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

As a huge Audi fan (and R53 200hp+ Cooper S owner) I’ve been very excited about this Audi A1 car since it was first mentioned ages ago.

I’m sure this thing is gonna look fab, and behave like an animal! I have to be honest, depending on its looks and handling, a small Audi capable of 200hp as standard from a puny 1.4L engine is gonna be a huge temptation for me! Just wondering what a twincharger sounds like? do you get the best of both worlds? i.e. the grunt of a turbo, and that awesome whine like on the R53 S? mmm! yes please!!!

I’d better start saving though, I’m not selling my Cooper S!

Jon Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

What DB, no pictures of this Audi?

jd7 Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Jon;

PICS of A1

SB Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I bet they would offer a diesel to the states. :P

Victor Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

how much would it weight? :p

also to note it has be speculated that Porsche is coming out with a car to target the A1 and the BMW 1. It is rumored to have a front mounted Boxter motor with all wheel drive.

Mark (Texas) Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Offer a diesel and dual-clutch manual/auto trans, and I’m there.

rhawth99 Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

It will be interesting to follow developments of this – the car looks and sounds promising. I wonder if just a turbocharged version will be available to provide good punch AND good fuel economy.

ml Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Sounds good. Although it still doesn’t have the style of the MINI. I could see it as a competitor, but not a MINI killer.

MattCovey Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

A twin charge setup might get the hp needed out of a small engine but I think the MINI has shown people want performance AND fuel economy. For the S1 to be practical I’d imagine Audi will need to find a way to get 30+ mpg.

Jon Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Always happy to see competition for the Mini brand. Without competition the brand stands a better chance of becoming stale.

I do like the Audi design. with one major exception. The current Audi front ends are very garish to me. Just my personal taste here but I think Audi kinda missed the mark with the design of the newer Audi front ends. While on larger cars its sheer scale is ok I will be interested in how this looks in person on the A1/S1 series. Not a bad design at all, though the rear end does kinda remind me of some previous VW designs.

Nathaniel Salzman Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Sounds good. Although it still doesn’t have the style of the MINI. I could see it as a competitor, but not a MINI killer.

I contend that there’s no such thing as a MINI killer.

No matter what Audi or Porsche or Benz or Chrysler or Scion or anybody else comes up with in the premium small car market, the MINI is safe. It hits a near-magical mix of performance, economy, style, heritage, and character. No one other car will ever knock the MINI off of that “pedestal” – if you want to think of it that way – but rather it will only be poor choices on the part of MINI/BMW that would lead to the car’s demise. And I don’t say that out of expectation, as I don’t think BMW will ruin the car any time soon. If anything, though I don’t love every aspect of the R56, its evolution has made the MINI more accessible to the masses, all while advancing performance and economy, even if a smidgen of that R50/53 character has a different flavor. It’s still a MINI. And it’s going to appeal to the people that MINIs appeal to and no BMW 1 series, or Audi A1 is going to have the same mojo. With the Clubman and other variants in the pipeline, that family will only grow.

eager2own Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Interesting car, but I agree that it’s not a direct competitor for those seeking the personality of the MINI. Frankly, if I wanted straight performance without charisma, I would’ve bought the Mazdaspeed 3 — this is not a knock on the performance of the R56 or on the looks of the Mspeed 3, but merely intended to point out that there are other hatches out there which have been compared to the MINI, but which I would not consider to appeal to the same market (although the C30 may indeed be taking some potential MINI customers).

gmini Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

This Audi looks a lot like the GM micro product i’ve been seeing.

eager2own Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I say we let Audi fight this out with the 1-series — that’s a more direct competition.

gmini Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

agreed. the entry level audi is a vw.

saakey Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Being a huge Audi fan myself, i can’t wait to see this car in action… If it had been around when i was looking at the Mini, it certainly would have been in the running. And if the current R56 doesn’t undergo more interior updates and niceties, then it will surely lose more future buyers to this A1. Audi’s fit and finish are and have always been second to none.

Chad Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

The S1 sounds nice, but will it cost $35,000 or $40,000? I like the Volvo C30, but the cost difference between it and the Cooper (even the MCS) makes it hard to put in the same category. Yes, they’re all small and fast and premium, but when there’s a five to ten thousand dollar difference in price, that changes the picture.

DB Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

What DB, no pictures of this Audi?

There was one in the original story. And, since most of the pictures I found were watermarked and I don’t really like to advertise that I stole images from a particular site.

Besides, this is a MINI site. ;)

Brian Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I have to say, it does look very nice.

Rob Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I can’t say I like the like the front end – it looks like it’s desperate to suck on something. I suppose you could stuff as much HP as possible into any hunk of tin and make it go fast, but an integrated design like the MINI seems much less like overcompensation than the reputed challengers it faces. A1 does nothing for me.

Nigel Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I like it a lot too. And this is coming from someone that has not been keen to VW/Audis in the past.

Audi has a huge problem in this country…. Perception of poor reliability and the worst residuals of any luxury car sold in the USA.

I really hope Audi has developed or, at the very least, has a strategy to address these 2 significant hurdles that tarnish the brand and its products for me personally.

MINI’s party is over. They are no longer the only game in town. Competition is getting stiffer and very uncomfortably closing on them. The 2009-2010 time period should be an interesting era on MINI product development and how they will respond to threats posed by close competitors. First the Fiat 500 Abarth, then the Volvo C30 and now the Audi A1, all ready and aiming at MINI’s exclusive piece of the market share.

Aside for a much needed facelift, the R56 S more power right off the box, a DSG option and possibly an AWD option as well.

This is just the beginning….

George Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Sounds interesting, but I wonder how much it’s going to weigh… I’ll still take the Cooper.

Shamus Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I see only one MINI killer emerging…the Abarth Fiat 500. There hasn’t been anything close to the MINI in terms of cult status, but I can imagine the Abarth filling the needs of people looking for the next best thing while retaining excellent handling, acceleration, size and fuel economy. Keep in mind, I’m talking about the Abarth, not the standard 500.

MiniMatt Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Yeah i would have to agree with you Shamus, the Fiat 500 Abarth would probably be a more direct ‘killer’… But I’m sure that the build quality of the Fiat will leave much to be desired… Don’t forget its base price is very low indeed. The S1 will be all wheel drive, but then also expensive like the C30, and therefore not a direct threat… I hope Audi go for the TT style grille too by the way…

MattCovey Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

If Fiat import the Abarth 500 into the US it might get interesting but it sounds like the 500 platform is very vanilla so Abarth may have thier work cut out for them.

Doug Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

MINI killer? Audi has yet to make a BMW-killer out of its A4, A6, A8 or Q7 cars, so the headline is generous!

Radley Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I think a lot of people would be interested in the Audi A1/S1 if BMW doesn’t start offering some things to the MINI brand: 1. A form of the Dual Clutch Transmission(DCT) they are working on to the MCS. 2: I think a lot of people would be interested in all wheel drive, which you know Audi is going to offer their Quattro.

But I think MINI is safe, for now. With the MCS because they will have the power and efficiency. If Audi gets the S1 light enough even with DSG and Quattro they might have a good run at MINI. : (

Please MINI if you are reading, Offer AWD option.

Radley Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Doug, you’re right about that.

DB Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I think a lot of people would be interested in all wheel drive, which you know Audi is going to offer their Quattro.

This is one that keeps coming up and it’s one I really don’t understand. Having never driven an AWD vehicle before, I guess I don’t get it.

What is the appeal of AWD? I can’t imagine it being speed because the extra weight would certainly scrub that off, unless the MCS HP was boosted to around 250 or so. Is it for the increased traction? Better performance in snow? Piece of mind?

This isn’t a slam or anything like that. I’m honestly curious.

Josh Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Audi’s never seem to have the same athletics and thus thrills that Mini and BMW constistantly provide.

Mark Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I agree Nigel:

Audi has a huge problem in this country…. Perception of poor reliability and the worst residuals of any luxury car sold in the USA

…but the residual value bloom is long-gone on the MINI as well. Most MINI dealers really don’t want used MINIs, and their trade-in offers reflect this. Which is a little odd, considering how much coin MINI pumps in advertising to encourage existing MINI owners to be repeat customers. Quite a few members of our local MINI club opted out of the MINI family and went Audi/Volvo/Mazda, when the local MINI dealers offered them half or less of what they paid for their cars three years ago, when looking at trading in for ’07s.

Nathaniel Salzman Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

This is one that keeps coming up and it’s one I really don’t understand. Having never driven an AWD vehicle before, I guess I don’t get it.

I think a lot of people give AWD too much credit for being the end-all answer to all-weather driving, or think it automatically translates into better cornering. That isn’t always true, but what it does do – at least in the Suburus I’ve driven (Legacy GT, WRX) – is make the car FEEL very sure-footed. So I think there’s a real tactile driver experience that people really like. I’ve got a friend with an AWD Lexus RX330 SUV and the AWD does give that vehicle a degree of “chuckability” that it certainly wouldn’t have otherwise. But AWD on the MINI? With the overhangs and wheelbase so short, I don’t know that you’d really gain anything. Make the MINI RWD and it might make a significant driving character difference, but then you’re really venturing far outside of what makes it a MINI in my opinion. So though I understand the appeal of AWD in general, I don’t understand the outcry for it in the MINI either, DB.

Radley Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I just think with all wheel drive it would hug the road even better then it already does=more fun? Yeah the power would need to be boosted. Maybe offer AWD on R56 Factory JCW car? Unless MINI shedded some pounds for AWD which is HIGHLY doubtable. I mean it’s pretty light how it is. I love the MINI. I honestly think it’s fine how it is. But if MINI is going to offer higher HP from future models their gonna need to be able keep the power on the road w/o DSC or ASC using their system to tell your car to back off. I know Audi will never offer the whole package, like MINI does. Power, Safety, Priced right, and most of all FUN! Plus, it would be cool to see MINI in WRC.

Chris M Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Ugly, to my eyes. But competition is good.

GregW Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Audi already have the 4wd / awd for years and won many International events around the world. They have the technology and experience. They also share engineering with Volkswagen.

Dave Mac Mini Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

You would understand if you lived in Canada and faced snow and ice for a few months every year. I once owned an Audi Quattro and in the winter it was fantastic. Mind you, the MINI is not bad, if fitted with winter tires and DSC, but AWD would be something I would consider. However, not having it is not a deal breaker for me.

Ted Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

In 2008/2009/2010 we’ll have a Mini SUV, BMW X1, Audi A1, BMW 135??? Form factors are converging to smaller-sportier and smaller-greener vehicles. Happy Motoring Gentleman. Bring back some sensible ideas.

Ban anything bigger than a BMW 5 series. Bring back sanity to transportation. Please no more waste, glut, inefficiency, pollution. Let’s demand CO2 rating specifications on new autos. Subaru, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, European Manufacturers are all headed to this form factor.

greg Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

ZZZZZZZZZZ. This, the Fiat, whatever. There is NO Mini killer. You can’t replicate the pedigree or the charm let alone the unique performance.

jas cooper Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

A1

Some iterations look different. This one looks kinda miniesque.

By 2010 there should be several Mini alternatives, especially if gas prices continue to rise.

Jon Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Think my interest in AWD could be expressed in two ways, first in ugly weather AWD is a great feature. Also having driven a performance AWD vehicle with adaptive AWD was one of the most interesting runs on a track I’ve ever had. The fact is we are quickly nearing the edge of the max horse power that most engineers suggest for a front wheel drive. A front wheel drive car has serious bonuses coming out of corners, while straight line acceleration is better from rear wheel drive cars. A full time 4 wheel drive isn’t really needed but an adaptive would be nice.

Nigel Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

I think people should not dismiss the Fiat 500 so quickly. It appears to be a high quality car, designed by Frank Stephenson and with the same levels of customization offered in the MINI. Above all, the car is truly MINI in size. Picture this… 160HP+ turbocharged engine, 2,000 (or less curb weight) + lower admission price = Serious R56 MCS threat. A well tuned Fiat 500 Abarth could lure would be an existing MINI owners away if the quality, performance, price equitation is correct.

At this point is only a rumor whether Fiat intends to re-enter the American market that they abandoned nearly 25 years ago. If so, look for the Fiat 500 Abarth at your nearest Ferrari/Maserati US distributor in 2010.

emtrey Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

f-u-g-l-y….and I also own an Audi…

Sam Aug 22nd, 2007 Link

Does anyone else think this looks like an Audi TT? Are they simply going to shrink that car and call it an A1?

I have to agree with those who don’t want to sacrifice weight for AWD. 200-300 pounds would be significant in a MINI, and not worth it in the end. I drive a FWD Mazda with good snow tires, and it handles a lot better than my Evo did with AWD:), so invest in those tires and enjoy the weight savings:)

jas cooper Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

My last car was a TT. Doesn’t look anything like this. But then the Autoweek pic looks completely different than some other A1 pics.

http://www.motorpasion.com/2006/02/09-audi-a1-el-mini-de-audi

I got the Mini because the TT got 20/26mpg and weighed about 3600lbs. It also had much less room than the MCS.

But the AWD was great. With all the torque the R56 is putting out, AWD is the next logical step.

Ian F Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

Well, I hope for Audi’s sake that none of the photo-chop cars pictured make it to production sicne my god, they’re ugly…

As a past & current owner of many AWD (Audi), 4WD (old Subaru) and 4×4’s (too many to mention, currently a Dodge Cummins). Buying an AWD car for use in snow is a total waste of money, weight and complexity. Increased traction in high-HP cars is a different story.

The main reason I would drive my Dodge in the snow over my daily-driver has nothing to do with it being a 4×4 and more to do with it being a lot less valuable and more easily replaced if some SUV driver who failed basic physics plows into it.

gokartride Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

To anyone wanting to compete w/ MINI…good luck!! The MINI package works on so many levels…it’d be very difficult to intentionally replicate, even for BMW. MINI came with lots of baggage (good) and generating that would be unlikely. I think MINI success even caught BMW by surprise.

>KârK Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

Looks like a Suzuki Swift. With bling-bling alloys. Hardly likely to outdo MINI in terms of charm, at any rate. It could turn out to be fun, but it’ll take more than that to sway my pig-headed devotion to my MINI :D

Vanwall Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

I don’t think Fiat is in any hurry to sell in the USA. The current credit crunch will certainly delay any thoughts for a while. The 500 Abarth looks interesting, as a fast Topolino – not as a MINI threat. Pricing will be the kill-point for comparisons – Abarths were historically much higher than most others, so this will be a test of Fiat’s will to have a loss leader or a real profit maker.

Most of the styling exercises for small cars these days look to me like larger cars that came out of a hydraulic press – squeeze ‘em into a smaller length – throw on a few square yards of chrome and an orifice that would swallow the Graf Zeppelin, and folks won’t notice how execrable the “styling” inspirations are, I guess. Two-box cars have a proportional equilibrium that is very limited, and MINI has about captured the acceptable limits for me.

Nathan Aug 23rd, 2007 Link

But it won’t have the history of MINI, the pedigree and retro styling are major factors of the appeal.

Steve Aug 24th, 2007 Link

AWD is talked about a lot in online car forums, and is probably a big deal to a small group of enthusiasts, but I have to tell you, the bulk of AWD-available cars I see here in SoCal are FWD, especially Audi A4’s, which really should be AWD for any favorable driving dynamic! So, how hard is it for auto makers to make money back on AWD models, when it’s mainly a cold-weather option? I don’t think the enthusiast perception and sales reality actually add up, and I”m sure MINI knows this.

Aussom Aug 24th, 2007 Link

So why hasn’t and when will MINI coming out with twincharger (i.e., turbocharger and supercharger together) models?

The closest alternative model to the MINI that I’ve come across in Australia is the Suzuki Swift Sport (see http://www.suzuki.com.au ). In fact I once was approached by a Suzuki Swift driver who told me that the only reason why he purchased the Swift was because he wanted a car much like the MINI but he couldn’t afford one. The Swift provided him with a suitable alternative at a fraction of the price. Add body stripes and you have an alternative.

The Ford Fiesta XR4 model hatch also seems to be trying to muscle in on the MINI market space in Australia (see http://www.ford.com.au).

whiteroofradio.com - The MINI Cooper Podcast » Woofcast #179 Aug 26th, 2007 Link

[...] the news, we covered this post at Motoringfile, where I asked what’s so hot about all-wheel drive. Besides wanting/needing it for safety in [...]

MotoringFile » Archive » White Roof Radio #179 Aug 27th, 2007 Link

[...] the news, we covered this post at Motoringfile, where I asked what’s so hot about all-wheel drive. Besides wanting/needing it for safety in [...]