Will a MINI SUV Damage the MINI Brand?

Sections: R60 (Countryman) Oct 15th, 2007 81 Comments

Over the past 5-6 years, MINI has used the “less is more” angle unabashedly in their marketing around the world. They’ve publicly made fun of SUV’s gas mileage and in subtle ways even their owner’s personalities. In fact it’s worth remembering that the very first statement on MINIUSA.com was “The SUV backlash starts here.” And through it all the MINI community (especially in the US) has eaten it up. They’ve take to the feeling of “MINI-ness”. The cheeky attitude that doesn’t outright say “I’m better than you” but makes a strong argument for the fact that maybe I’m just a little smarter as a MINI owner.

So what does a MINI SUV mean to all of this? Will you take the same pride in MINI ownership once you see your first little MINI SUV poorly parked at your local Starbucks? Will you still wave or have the same smile on your face when you come across one in a parking lot?

In short, how do you think the MINI SUV will change the brand and how you interact with it? Is it time for the brand to grow and us as owners to welcome the new model and possibly a new demographic into the fold? Or does this move potentially damage the brand irreparably?

Written By: Gabe

Jay9s

A good example might be the Miata crowd. OK, it’s a little bit different situation, but anyway there is a Miata club right here in my town…they (about 12 or so) get together once a month, drive all around, park at the Tim Hortons, and just love their cars and I get the idea that they don’t give a fiddler’s what Mazda does.
Lazy S

When did we start writing membership rules to join the MINI Community? If people love the MINI brand, but can’t live without the extra storage space, a MINI SAV keeps them in the brand family. Let’s not be too quick to demonize the concept by branding it with the three automotive “scarlet letters”. The “out motoring” crowd is more defined by people who love to drive MINIs (of all varieties), than it is by people who sit in judgement over what is and is not a MINI. Less politics and more driving!
http://stylizedfacts.com/coruscation/autos/mini/ Coruscation

It could work out if it’s small and efficiently and innovtively packaged.

And cuter than the Suzuki X-90.

Should have enough clearance and ruggedness to do u-turns over kerbs.
robble

this will be my last MINI if they do this

bye bye.. There will be 10 to replace you – and you’ll be the only loser.
Jon

Still sitting here wishing Mini would develop something unique, believe or not there is more that just SUV’s to pursue.

I also have to say that the Porsche community was damaged by the development of the SUV, yes its true that many are sold and quite capable but also a large number of 911 owners turned their backs to the community. Same happened in the BMW brand. Guessing we are going to see a tiny 3000 lb Mini. Hard to imagine something that doubles the weight of the classic could be labeled a Mini heh. Still believe this is Mini choosing profit over owners.
Tony

I love the Autoexpress rendering. A little chunkier looking with slightly bigger wheels – how about the JCW kit as well as 4WD? – How about a proper works version fighting it out in WRX?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_449/car_photo_224500_7.jpg
Chuck

I heard the Army and Air Force bought up all the unsold Pontiac Aztecs and used them for target practice.
Eric
Do you hear that rumble? It’s not a MINI SUV, it’s Sir Alec rolling over in his grave!
1. The MINI was originally from Europe; small narrow roads, small cars
2. The American’s are the ones asking for more SUVs?
3. If I want an SUV, I’m going to get something that will be usable for moving stuff. I can fit alot of crap in my MINI. But when I need more space, I don’t go out to borrow a RAV4. Instead, I rent a F150 or something like that.
4. Saw a license plate on a MINI the other day that said, “ANTI-SUV”… guess they’ll have to get that changed to “SUV-WNAB”
Mark@miniofthemainline

Just because they are planning to build it does not mean you have to buy it. But I’m guessing pleanty of people will, our society is all too convinced that they NEED an SUV. (as a guy that sells MINI’s for a living, I’ve seen far too many people that think that way – I however, am not one of them) It will sell like hot cakes if they build it. Lots of people that buy cars never read a single forum. Then again, what do I know?
Mark@miniofthemainline

If Sir Alec were still around… he would be one RICH fella!
Mark (Texas)

Great discussion. But remember, there is is going to be a marked difference between what the U.S. buyer thinks of as a Sports UTILITY Vehicle, and a MINI’s idea of a Sports ACTIVITY Vehicle. Most of the neg posters are thinking SUV, when they need to be thinking outside that pre-conceived box, like I’m sure the MINI designers are. Think cool Woody Surf car, not some land-barge of a Ford Excursion. I’d buy a MINI SAV over the coup any day, just for the added versatility.
Bwana Yak

Jeez. You would think a community of people based around a car that’s a hoot to drive in town and on the track would welcome a new version that’s also a hoot to drive on bumpy country trails and in the snow.

I am stunned by the closed-mindedness of some of the posters here. So the SAV will be a little bit bigger. It will still have everything that makes a MINI a MINI: superb handling, the unique MINI style, great mileage, power if you want it – what’s not to be excited about? It’s going to be tiny compared to just about every other vehicle of its type, but with the heart and soul of the MINI bulldog.

I love my ’06 MCS (45K miles on it already). I enjoy every minute of my daily commute on twisty back roads, and then on weekends I put the rack on it, load it up with my kayaks and camping gear and head out into the wilderness, or at least as far into the wilderness as my MCS will let me go. The MINI SAV is targeted directly at me, and I am part of the MINI community.

All this talk of “I’m abandoning MINI if they make this thing” is juvenile. It sounds like “I’m not going to be friends with Janey anymore because she likes Suzy.” Grow up. We don’t live in a simplistic world, and MINI doesn’t exist to serve your personal desires for exclusivity.

I am 100% in favor of the MINI SAV, as long as it stays within the core concepts that make a MINI what it is: small, fast, nimble, strong and unique. If I wanted a generic SUV crossover I could pick up a CRV or RAV4 or Outback down at the corner auto lot, but I’m waiting to get a MINI SAV that I’ll have to drive 200 miles to buy and another 200 miles every time it needs to be serviced. That’s brand loyalty, not this stuff about abandoning MINI if they don’t limit themselves to only making your car.
Jay9s

}————-{ = Cooper

}—————{ =Clubman

}—————–{ =MINI SAV?

}————————–{ = typical SUV

…It just might be MINI, y’all…..
Callahan

A MINI will still be a MINI. It may bring others into the MINI fold who were put off by its compactness. Increased sales means increased profits which inturn means increase development money. This may be a gateway for development of an AWD or a over the top JCW. With Oil and gas rising through the roof I do not think that BMW will do anything that will INCREASE their fleet milaeage scores. There will be those of you who absolutely despise a MINI’esque SUV. There will be those who love it. The simple answer is if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. I personally am not that overly fond of the Clubman and do not plan to buy one. That does not mean it is not the ideal car for someone else. Something else to remember about the perceived dilution of brands, remeber that Porsche is bringing out the Panamerica in 2010 — a sedan. A company that oes not alter itself to meet consumer demands quicly fades away.
Dan S

A Mini SAV/SUV would be a great addition to the line.

Look, quiet your fears! Mini/BMW isn’t going to be hiring unemployed Pontiac Aztec designers to design it. And, just like no sentient being would confuse the Clubman with a Taurus X, Mini simply would not design a SAV that could be confused with a CRV any more than our Mini would be confused with an Accord coupe.
rattmobbins
I personally have mixed feelings about a MINI SUV (or SAV as their calling it).
- I think that it WOULD be kinda cool to have a “go anywhere” MINI. I could take it to obscure mountain bike trails and stuff. That could be cool.
- On the other hand, I do hate the idea of seeing a ton of “soccer moms” driving MINIs. I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.
http://www.nemini.org PaulGraz

“Damage the Brand” can mean different things. From BMW’s point of view, anything that generates more profit is helping the brand, not damaging it. To them, allowing profits to erode would be the worst damage they can imagine.

The bottom line is that any car line has to evolve in today’s marketplace. The economics are different now than when original Mini’s were produced.

You can only sell small cars to so many people, it’s a finite market. And most of that finite market is filled with econoboxes, so the MINI niche is even smaller. In order to survive, MINI has to expand. And there’s a trend right now in the US; people are still buying SUVs but they are buying smaller SUVs. Even Hummer is reacting to that trend. I talk to people all the time who are ready to dump their TRUCK-SUV, they want a smaller, CAR-SUV. They still want the AWD, they want room for 4 + a bunch of stuff, they want 4 doors, and they want a status symbol – but now they want better fuel economy too. Apparently 14 mpg gets old after a while. Go figure…

It seems that the Ford Excursions are out and the Honda CRVs are in.

So the smaller vehicles in this class stand to gain sales, and BMW is jumping on that. They can call it “SAV” but the public isn’t going to fall for that – it is what it is.

There will be MINI owners who don’t like this – myself included. But I understand why they are doing it. I don’t think I’ll be a repeat customer anyhow, because there’s too much about the R56 that doesn’t appeal to me. Stretching it and putting AWD underneath is only going to push me away further. But as has been noted here over and over, other buyers will replace us. MINI wont be concerned about the lack of repeat sales as long as cars are moving out the door. And I’ll just keep my 03 MCS running a while longer…

The MINI SUV will sell well, rest assured.

However – I can’t help thinking about what BilboBaggins posted. How many times did I visit the MINIUSA web page, greeted by: “The SUV backlash starts here”

What’s the new slogan? “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em”???
http://www.matthewgifford.com/ Matt G.

> I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.

We’re way past that point.
Mark (Texas)

On the other hand, I do hate the idea of seeing a ton of “soccer moms” driving MINIs. I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.

If the only people buying MINIs were the “enthusiasts” BMWs grand experiment resurrecting the MINI would have failed, and the plant in Oxford shut years ago.
Dave Mac Mini

The Porsche analogy is a good one. A Porsche 911 lover turns up his nose at the Cayenne, but the Cayenne is the best selling Porsche ever. The 911 buyers still buy and enjoy their cars, but the company makes scads of money from the SUV. Everybody is happy. If you think a MINI SUV or SAV or whatever is reason not to buy a MINI, then don’t buy one, but for me it will not factor into my decision. I am on MINI no. three, and am looking longingly at a Clubman for my wife. In the meantime, speculation seems like a waste of time. Wait and see what MINI offers, and then bash away if you like. Golly, you might even like it!
Nathaniel Salzman

I guess I get the unfair advantage of coming to this post late, but nonetheless, as often on MotoringFile, the word “brand” gets used but not actually defined. So we get posts like:

I think the Clubman damaged the MINI brand

Care to elaborate on that?

And then the classic:

If MINI is going to release SUV version of it, I am moving on to other brands when my lease is done! Seriously, if there is a SUV in the line up under MINI brand, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not the same anymore!! SUV will just ruin MINI brand! Trust me on that.

Good riddance then. That’s like throwing away your 501s because Levi’s put out a pair of corduroys. I love my Cooper S on its own merits and nothing MINI does short of gross, Enron-type corporate irresponsibility is going to change how much I love the sound of my supercharger.

Everybody’s opinions are actually very interesting, and yes in part that perception makes up the brand. However, a lot of the backlash against the MINI SAV, in my mind, seems to be rooted in some a group of false notions.

A) That a MINI SAV will be big. Sure, it will be bigger, but we’re talking only a slight jump in size over the Clubman, which is all of 9 inches longer overall and not a spit wider than the coupe. Even relative to the new “crossover” market, a MINI SAV would be very small for its class – especially here in the states.

B) That it would be inefficient. Short of some sort of hybrid system, I doubt a MINI SAV would push Cooper mpg numbers, but I’d wager economy would still be a very high priority. This isn’t a Tahoe we’re talking about here. And keep in mind that there’s more to efficiency than raw mpg. Todd made a great point in WRR #193 that something MINI that could actually, comfortably carry 4+ people and their gear has a very real appeal. What’s more efficient? Two people at 34 mpg, or 5 people and their stuff at 30 mpg?

C) Performance will be lacking. In terms of sheer track-day lap times, this is a valid point, as we’ve heard the AWD will be tuned more for snow and less for the track. However performance, like effeciency, is relative. Even on an 1-2″ higher lift, the active safety factor of a car tuned by MINI and BMW is much higher than the equivalent Saturn small SUV. I think of Gabe’s comment about the X5 “having no business handling as well as it does.” Yet somehow there’s this expectation that a MINI SAV would be some sort of mushy, body-rolling cornering nightmare. Where does this come from? And just like in the economy category, I’d much rather drive something like a MINI SAV down a rutted dirt or gravel road than my MCS.

D) That only wasteful, obnoxious yuppies would have want or need for a MINI SAV. As though the coupe is somehow like kryptonite – forcefully repelling the wasteful – as though every time one of us passes an Escalade or an H2 the driver gets a ringing in her ears and spills her lattÃƒÂ©. There are plenty of dunder-headed non-recyclers who drive Coopers right now. Could not the inverse still be true for the MINI SAV? Could it yet be desirable to the same level-headed people who the MINI appeals to now but are looking for that elusive MINI mojo in a package that’s (gasp) a bit more practical?

Now all that said, the purist in me abhors the notion of the “soft-roader” MINI model. I think the BMW X1 should fill that role and leave MINI well enough alone. However, idealism and pragmatism rarely share a cab. Given the US market demands, a MINI SAV is a smart addition to the brand because like the Clubman, it will diversify the MINI product offering and give even more people a place to belong. And if you’re still threatened by the idea, think of it this way. The success of a MINI SAV will be what continues to subsidize fantastic, petrol-headed stuff like the JCW Challege Race Car. Is it ideal in the sense of what we enthusiasts will clamor for? Not really. But is it still doing more with less? I optimistically expect it to.

What’s more truly anti-SUV than doing it better?

NS in MN
Jim W.

I’m for a MINI – make that a MAV – that is small as the moke was, with the 10 inch tires, raised clearance, and heck why not try the 3-wheeled design of Buckminster Fuller’s Dymaxion car while they’re at it.

I’m serious.
Jon

Really enjoying the debate guys/gals, lots of valid points on all sides I think so far.

What I would hate to see lost in the Mini community is the inclusivness of it. Our community is unique in the car community, would be a sad day when this would end. I also believe the biggest sellers of the Mini brand and its current standing is the Mini community, BMW/Mini should remember this I think.
GregW

Now I am really starting to worry about MINI. Every car BMW has made has gotten bigger model after model. Will the SUV damage the brand? – most likely not but when does MINI stop and MAXI start?
Bwana Yak

when does MINI stop and MAXI start?

It’s all relative to the type of vehicle. The MINI SAV will be MINI’s variant of the SUV vehicle type, and in that context it will be mini. Compared to a different vehicle type, such as a three-door hatch, it may seem maxi, but that’s not a fair comparison.

I think the SAV will enhance the brand rather than damage it, infusing the MINI concept into a new market space.
tsukiji

+1 enhance
nervous

The only thing that could damage the brand is poor performance & build quality. I don’t see myself driving one, but I can’t imagine not being MINI loyal for the rest of my life!
Mark (Texas)

Maybe some insight on what will go into the MINI SAV design in this interview with Chris Bangle, Director of Design at BMW on the BMW Concept X6 SAV.

http://vodcast.bmw.com/stories/3319351/
Jon

Good interview with Chris Bangle, BMW/Mini does have a lot of very talented people in it. I am still with Gabe on this one though, I wouldn’t have nearly the problem I do with this if they would have just stretched it some and added two doors, but jacking it up and putting wanabe off-road bling to the design still just makes me shake my head. Seems so predictable, has Mini gotten so uncreative that all they can do is design the same crossover that BMW has along with most of the rest manufactures?
O(=^=)OCapn

Will a MINI SUV Damage the MINI Brand?

No.
Mark (Texas)

Hey Jon, I agree, but when I look at the Concept X6, I don’t see a jacked-up wannabe offroader.

http://www.bmwusa.com/conceptX6

Let’s wait and see what the MINI designers do with this kind of thing for the MINI SAV.

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