Will a MINI SUV Damage the MINI Brand?

Sections: R60 (Crossover) Oct 15th, 2007 81 Comments

Over the past 5-6 years, MINI has used the “less is more” angle unabashedly in their marketing around the world. They’ve publicly made fun of SUV’s gas mileage and in subtle ways even their owner’s personalities. In fact it’s worth remembering that the very first statement on MINIUSA.com was “The SUV backlash starts here.” And through it all the MINI community (especially in the US) has eaten it up. They’ve take to the feeling of “MINI-ness”. The cheeky attitude that doesn’t outright say “I’m better than you” but makes a strong argument for the fact that maybe I’m just a little smarter as a MINI owner.

So what does a MINI SUV mean to all of this? Will you take the same pride in MINI ownership once you see your first little MINI SUV poorly parked at your local Starbucks? Will you still wave or have the same smile on your face when you come across one in a parking lot?

In short, how do you think the MINI SUV will change the brand and how you interact with it? Is it time for the brand to grow and us as owners to welcome the new model and possibly a new demographic into the fold? Or does this move potentially damage the brand irreparably?

Written By: Gabe

81 Comments

Edge Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I think it most definitely damages the brand. I’m open to all kinds of MINI “variants” for different purposes, but the idea of a MINI SUV (or a MINIvan, for example) flies in the face of the “really small” concept that defines the brand.

Now, a MINI Moke variant would do well – but it really, seriously has to be no bigger than the existing MINIs, in the same way that the original moke was still a very small vehicle. Also, excessive ground clearance doesn’t do much to help define that either.

I very much dislike that BMW is caving to the SUV mentality in the ONE brand it has that is supposed to stand against oversized stupidity.

Brian Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Damaging + 1

saakey Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I’m sorry but BMW is sure to destroy the Mini brand if they keep at it. It’s the old saying (and I don’t know why we say it, as no one ever lives by it) – But it goes something like this – “Leave well enough alone”. Well it seems that no one can ever do that… Nothing last forever and things always change/evolve. So I’m not surprised. The bottom line is BMW is a company… a normal company whose main objective is to make money. And if they feel they could sell a boat load of these Mini Suv’s then they will do it. They certainly wouldn’t stop production of something because a lot of us “loyal” Mini owners wouldn’t like it. C’est la vie i guess. I won’t be buying one =P

Matt Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I have no problem with model variants since this was done in the past generation. What I will say is that the MINI brand and mystique will probably remain intact and I don’t expect a new type of demographic or customer suddenly buying MINI’s because there’s an SUV on the market. I think what MINI is about nowadays is not “small,” but “brand MINI.” Whether it’s a coupe, wagon, convertible, or an SUV it will still look, feel, and have the same sense of being “different.” It will still not draw in the “average joe.” I don’t think the you will find someone deciding between a Ford Edge or the new Mini SAV.

matt Oct 15th, 2007 Link

will it be a legitimate SUV or more like an Audi Allroad or like the concepts? if the later i don’t see there much damage at all. it’ll be a tougher little runabout that provides a bit more utility. however, if were talking about a RAV-4 CRV style vehicle, yes the brand is damaged and not by a small amount.

MINI Vanilli Oct 15th, 2007 Link

i think we are getting ahead of ourselves on this one. from what i’ve heard its going to be a rugged sporty clubman with bigger fenders and wheels. not quite an SUV!! if they use the current engine used in the MCS it will get fantastic gas mileage and have loads of power. im not seeing the problem here? im on my 3rd MINI so i am a big fan of the brand. the MINI redefined what a car could be, why not give this MINI SUV a chance to redefine what an SUV could be.

VMMVMMM Oct 15th, 2007 Link

If MINI built an 8 passenger V10 SUV that stood 7 feet tall and 11 feet long, then yes, it would damage the brand, but does anyone actually think that a parent company as smart as BMW and those in charge at MINI would actually consider something that didn’t embrace the MINI character and culture? I think it’s easy to sit and criticize while not one person knows anything about what the finished product will be, but as for me, I have full confidence in these people. They will not pull a Porsche and come out with an ugly beast like the Cayenne, I’m positive of that. These guys know what they are doing.

AN Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Remember a year ago when everyone on this board was up in arms about the Clubman being too big and not a MINI? It’s still a tiny car, in the overall scheme of things. If the SAV is a jacked Clubman (think Allroad vs the A6 Avant) then it’s not really an SUV or SAV in any sense of the word.

And of course no one is forcing you to buy it. You can love your MC/MCS hardtop and not be suicidal about the other models.

Lucas Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I agree with Edge above. If the MINI SUV/SAV/Van is to remain compatible with brand, it would have to be in line with the “less is more” tradition. Pointless excessive ground clearence of the current SUV market (I mean seriously, how many SUVs on the road has ever been off-road?) is really contradictory to the minimalist meet practicality mentality of the MINI brand.

Quite frankly, IMO the clubman is already stretching the brand a bit.

Craig Oct 15th, 2007 Link

If it is as I suspect, that it will be a jacked Clubman like the Subaru Outback is a jacked legacy and the Audi Allroad is a jacked A6 wagon, I’m ok with it. If the difference in size is measured in feet instead of inches I’ll start doubting MINI’s intelligence.

Motoring Advisor Oct 15th, 2007 Link

If it were up to Ford, GM or Chrysler I would definitely feel that it would damage the brand. But BMW does not have to try and appease the masses like the big 2 and a half do. This is BMW. They do what they want and don’t care what the others think. (In a good way).

Besides, all you have to do is open a Roundel to realize how much BMW cares about tradition and heritage.

If BMW didn’t consider and homage to past variants, we would probably all wonder why.

You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Chuck Oct 15th, 2007 Link

How about an all-wheel drive Clubman, not jacked up.

MA Oct 15th, 2007 Link

A cheeky little SAV that gets good mpg? For a brand to succeed, it needs to grow. It’s not going to be a monster (smaller than an x3, bigger than clubman), but innovative. MINI will do it right. So I am not worried one bit.

Ron Oct 15th, 2007 Link

It does sound like the MINI SAV/SUV will still be smaller than most cars, so I think it could be kinda neat. It’s poking fun at “real” SUVs.

I do think as the brand grows that the smile you get at seeing another MINI or the waving will disappear. Try as they might, I don’t think BMW can keep that kind of energy going as the brand grows – not because of the variety of models but just because of the number of MINIs on the road. You’ll have drivers who might just as well have bought a Ford or a GM but just happened to find some deal on a MINI, who don’t see it as anything special. How do you stop that? I don’t know. Keep availability low? Destroy any MINI older than 5 years? Don’t sell MINIs to anyone who also has an American car on their comparison list? Keep making sure that the MINI is so quirky that it only appeals to a small # of people?

iNomis Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Explorer, CRV, RAV4, Allroad are all boring pigs. Don’t give us yet another PISS-UV (Play it Safe Sport Utility Vehicle). Another on-road only MINI model is so boring it could only hurt the brand. MINI has tamed the streets. If MINI wants another success like the current MINI, reinvent the Jeep and give us an off-road MINI go-cart. A go anywhere 30MPG+ funster. Something new, small and different. Sure, 90% will never go off-road but 90% of us don’t take our current MINIs to the track either. The brand won’t suffer if MINI gives us something that respects the originality, purposefulness and spirit of the brand.

Shamus Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Guys…love the SUV pic, I’m still laughing. I wonder if you’ll get comments on this one?

I’m for the idea of a ruggedized, all-wheel drive version of the clubman, nothing more. The brand is built on “smaller is better”. Why tarnish that image by bowing to industry standard of everyone offering an SUV? Go ahead and put out as many SUVs as you’d like under the BMW moniker…The name is MINI! Let’s keep it that way.

LTL M CPE Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Glad to see most folks realize a MINI version will be just that, mini, and not a full size SUV. In BMW-speak they are SAV’s anyhow. :) A “jacked up” clubman as it’s been called will be great and won’t be anything close to a Ford Explorer.

Bring on the MINI Sav, my dogs are waiting to ride in it!

Jim

Jon Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Well, my personal vote on this one isn’t going to be a surprise to anyone. Let me start by saying I adore the Mini brand from the original into the current BMW/Mini days. I think Gert has a fantastic collection of people working around him and they have a well proven track record.

Yes, this is going to cause damage to the Mini community. I sadly can see this causing a fracture in our community because of the numbers of people that will not accept a SUV in their ranks. Personally this single decision by Mini has moved me from being one of the largest supporters of the Mini brand to feeling that Mini has personally turned its back on its community. I hope that I am wrong with my view of the future for the brand, but for me personally the day this vehicle enters the market my association with the BMW/Mini brands ends.

Would love to see BMW/Mini discuss this with their community and see if a few more sales is worth a sizable percentage of their community feeling betrayed.

Alan Smithee Oct 15th, 2007 Link

It’s a good question.

While I’d like to see future Minis remain, well, mini (sub-3,000lbs), I realize the market is limited and competition from other manufacturers are on the way.

Which means BMW must go in different directions with the Mini brand to keep the division growing, and unlike going smaller with a Smart competitor, larger vehicles mean larger profits both in terms of sales volume and margin per vehicle. So I think a Mini crossover SUV is inevitable, whether we like it or not.

drew Oct 15th, 2007 Link

i dont think MINI would ever dare bring to market a gas guzzler…i actually expect them to redifine/replace the current view of what an suv or sav is, and offer a solution that is 100 percent MINI. i don’t see how this car could possibly damage the brand if done right. anything resembling a ford expedition with a MINI badge on it would be suicidal, so don’t expect it to happenlike that.

i suspect we’ll all be jonesing for one when its released….mark my words.

mike c. Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I seem to remember when some BMW fans hated the idea of what became the X5 and X3 and saying that it would degrade the BMW brand. Maybe it did or maybe it didn’t, but BMW is still strong. So it’s very possible and perhaps likely that the SAV would sell well enough to help BMW (and MINI). That being said, I would not buy it.

Jon Oct 15th, 2007 Link

The saddest part of this evolution of the brand is I think BMW is going to try to link this development to the Moke to prove its historical pedigree. However I can assure you that the Moke is more akin to a striped down version of a jeep than anything that has ever been developed as a SUV. This is going to by just another micro crossover, still wonder why they choose such a predictable path instead of trying to come up with something as original to the market as the Frank Stephenson’s design was in 2001 something no SUV will ever be imo.

AN Oct 15th, 2007 Link

“A fracture in the community.” Just like the original Mini owners who said the new MINI wouldn’t sell. So, ok – they keep to themselves at the club meets and rallies – and the other 200K owners hang together too.

Unless the MINI SAV is X3-sized, there’s no issue.

Beavers Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I am impressed that folks can muster such conviction on the basis of pure unadulterated conjecture. We have no idea what MINI is coming up with, except that we think it will be a bit bigger than the clubman. The MINI track record leads me to believe that this is not going to be boring, and that it will not be a complete departure from the MINI style. “Leaving well enough alone” is not the kind of business/design philosophy that created Mini, and it surely is not the philosophy I would want them to adopt now.

You don’t cultivate whacko fans like us by losing sight of your brand OR by sitting on your ass and becoming derivative. Even if you think this is the evil influence of BMW, you have to give them some credit. They are not Pontiac, and this will not be an Aztec, for the love of god… /shudders violently

I am with MINI Vanilli on this one – we are fans for a reason, and that reason is what should lead us to be VERY curious about what this thing will look like. I for one have NO IDEA if this is a car I might be interested in owning, except that everything this company has produced from 1959-2007 has intrigued the hell out of me. I wouldn’t want to own all of them (MiniMoke = psycho golf cart IMHO), but they are always interesting – never boring.

I suggest we holster those wagging fingers until we have a little info to work with – I am betting that this will NOT be a ho-hum offering.

Beavers

Vanwall Oct 15th, 2007 Link

If any fractures occur, they are self-inflicted – perceptions are everything in life, so it’s inevitable that mis-perceptions will happen, and it’s just sad to see so many potential flat-eathers, oops, I mean absolutists, among the New MINI owners.

I went through the last leave-taking in the late ’60s, and had quite an anabasis until 2002, and then had to endure the same sort of carping about what was a Mini/MINI and what wasn’t. Maybe I’m more open to variants – I wasn’t shy about including the Austin America and MG1100 in my little car worldview, so I’m happy to see what a MINI yump-jumper will look like. I want MINI to be around for quite some time, and to survive, they must have a larger footprint in the market, regardless.

I notice BMW refers to it as an SAV, rather than SUV, so I think they have something in mind closer to a buff Clubman, rather than a Suburban, so I’ll keep my criticisms under wraps until they un-wrap something. I won’t be shy about critiquing any aspect I feel needs it, but at this point, I ain’t gonna get my panties in a bunch about it until I see more definitive information.

MINIme Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I agree that MINI should give us a legit SUV if they plan to go forth with this project. I am thinking along the lines of the Suzuki Samurai. I am sure some of you remember the fateful 60 Minutes edition that doomed the Samurai. A test track driver had to push the vehicle past its limits dozens of times to affect a rollover, and in the end, following the broadcast, the model’s popularity decreased to the point that US sales of the Samurai were discontinued after 1995. The vehicle was on pace to outsell the VW Beetle prior to this event! So, as you can probably figure out, I am a big fan of the Samurai and mini SUVs in general. If BMW could get this right (they won’t), I would be the first in line to purchase one. However, since it is highly likely that it will be a Clubman with higher fender arches and cosmetics that say crossover, I will probably continue to drive my ‘05 S and dream of what could be. It is nice to dream though. I love what BMW has done to revive the MINI brand, but the current vehicle is so far from the original, that I do not understand how folks can criticize the notion of an SUV as an expansion of what the company has done to date.

M. Dillon Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Since MINI is known for actually taking some of the suggestions,from its’ customers,here’s my following suggestion:

Add the braking system,that saves fuel,that is found,on the MINIs,overseas;plus,bring the diesel variant,with the braking system,as well. By doing this,MINI would have a selling point,that NO other small SUV can claim. A SUV,with the same gas mileage,as a typical MINI.

Also,I have spoken to individuals who wanted to know if MINI would put out a,”larger MINI”. When I informed them of the Clubman,and the upcoming MINI SUV,I could see the excitement in their eyes. Therefore,I know that their is a market.

In closing,I have to agree with some of the above posters,that a MINI SUV won’t hurt the MINI line up.

However,the MINI SUV,has to be the RIGHT type,of SUV. Thus,the above suggestion.

Mark (Texas) Oct 15th, 2007 Link

M Dillon has hit the mark exactly. I work with a lady who loves MINI’s, drools over mine constantly, and would kill to be part of the MINI community. But she has two rug-rats in car-seats, and a one-car budget. She would buy a 5-door SAV MINI in a heart-beat if there was one.

Matt G. Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Gabe, I can’t believe you didn’t link to the Canyonero’s theme song.

Ken Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Matt G. Oct 15th, 2007 Link Gabe, I canâ€™t believe you didnâ€™t link to the Canyoneroâ€™s theme song.

That was righteous dude.

I loved it. The MINI H8. Remember the bigger the number the smaller the SUV.

joey drama Oct 15th, 2007 Link

da da da, da da da, da da da CANYONAROOOOOOO!!!!1

jas cooper Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I think the Clubman damaged the MINI brand. Give me an R56 with AWD, and I’ll be happier than a pig in poop…

bavarian racing green Oct 15th, 2007 Link

…this is a silly question, in that it will of course damage the brand in the eyes of some and enhance the brand in the eyes of others…

…i seem to remember Porsche releasing some butt ass ugly and lame variants in the past and presently have a ginormous SUV in their stable…

…i have yet to talk to a 911 owner who would give up his/her ride in retaliation…

…they just drive around happily and scowl at the Cayenne when it passes…

…life goes on…

Craig Oct 15th, 2007 Link

â€¦they just drive around happily and scowl at the Cayenne when it passesâ€¦

I think that’s pretty much everyone’s reaction when seeing the Cayenne. It’s like sucking on lemons. Even if you like lemons, your face will scrunch up just like when you look at a Cayenne. This doesn’t mean that you will have the same reaction to a 911 just because it has a Porche badge just like the Cayenne. The same is true of MINI as regards the Clubman and Colorado.

J. Mills Oct 15th, 2007 Link

It’s a total turn off, and if they do it this will be my last MINI. Too many SUVs on the road as it is, no reason to add another, and the argument that they need to sustain the brand is BS, it’s a niche brand for BMW and should be left that way. Leave the SUVs for BMW.

CooperS33 Oct 15th, 2007 Link

It is as simple as this: SUV=The Antithesis of all that is mini. lets list the things that make the mini great:it breaks away from convention,it can be loud fast and raw ,it can be pushed through corners with ease,IT IS A SYMBOL OF INDIVIDAULITY. MOST OF ALL IT IS CAR FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT LOVE TO DRIVE
Can an SUV accomplish those things?….Personally I think not

cze33r Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Mini redefined the small car and the market is all the better for it, but I don’t understand why they would want to do the same with the small SUV/SAV market.

Worldwide Mini sales were up 31% in September and we have the clubman, JCW Challenge and JCW Stage 2 coming in the next few years so it’s not like Mini will be struggling to sell cars.

We all bought our Mini’s because we wanted them, nobody ‘wants’ an SUV.

pete Oct 15th, 2007 Link

MINI also admittedly made fun of turbocharged cars when they had a blower in the S. Now look what happened

lavardera Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I’m just wonder where the H-E-double hockey sticks they are going to find a bigger speedo for this thing.

Bilbo Baggins Oct 15th, 2007 Link

“In fact itâ€™s worth remembering that the very first statement on MINIUSA.com was “The SUV backlash starts here.”"

That about sums up my opinion of a MINI SUV. I still think that it isn’t someplace that MINI should go.

Although I can see the desire to broaden the acceptance of the brand. To make more cars that share at least some parts of the platform to reduce costs. However, they will never get me to buy one. And as with most other things in life I will vote with my dollars.

Barry Oct 15th, 2007 Link

For $5000. you could buy a Pontiac Aztec and put bonnet stripes on it.

nuvolari Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I’m all for AWD, but raised suspension and “body cladding” just seems pointless on the MINI. That beinbg said, Porsche seems to have survived the Cayenne with brand image/equity relatively intact.

Jon Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Lots of good comments on all sides of the debate.

What has kept me in the Mini community is that it doesn’t matter if its a convertable, cooper, diesel, cooper s they are all equally accepted within the Mini community. Go to a Porsche event, BMW event, or any other manafactures you will find a very segmented community. makes within the brand stand apart from the others. What rocks in my view is I get the same thrill seeing other Minis on the road no matter what they are, I just see the SUV fracturing the community.

I am hoping they they come up with an origonal however the micro luxury SUV has been done. Part what made the R50/R53 a success was that it created the luxury small hatchback market.

MINItron Oct 15th, 2007 Link

Personally I am looking forward to seeing what they have up their sleeves. If it comes out,and I don’t like it I won’t buy one. Simple as that. I may despise what they come up with, but it won’t stop me from buying another MINI.

bavarian racing green Oct 15th, 2007 Link

…MINItron…

…your name is badass…

…just wanted you to know…

Wetworth Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I remember this conversation when Porsche announced a SUV. It may not be what everyone wants, but Americans buy SUVs. I doubt it will damage the brand much if done properly.

Jack Oct 15th, 2007 Link

If MINI is going to release SUV version of it, I am moving on to other brands when my lease is done!

Seriously, if there is a SUV in the line up under MINI brand, it’s not the same anymore!! SUV will just ruin MINI brand! Trust me on that.

Matt Oct 15th, 2007 Link

I am anti-suv and don’t have a problem with the idea of a MINI SUV because I trust that it will look nothing like an Explorer or Tahoe. I love the idea of a 4cy MINI SUV. It may actually be the anti-suv. I would really like another MINI to take roadtrips with the family but it would be hard to fit the wife and two kids and all the kids gear in a MCS or even a Clubman. And if you don’t have kids don’t even think of telling me how I could fit everything. You see it is not so much the kids with all their things, it’s the wife who insists that we can’t leave any thing behind.

Jay9s Oct 15th, 2007 Link

OK, then….

1- Sir Alec would most likely find this whole concept of ‘damaging the brand’ and ‘dividing the community’ quite curious indeed.

2- What is up with the Clubman bashing? It’s a stretched MINI. That’s all. Just like the Countryman/Traveler way back in ‘61. I simply do not see how the brand is negatively effected by it. Arguably the convertible more the charlatan…

3- It’s funny that MINIme mentioned the Samurai; my 1st ride was an 85 SJ410. It was no longer than a Golf and about as good on gas. And it was a helluvalottafun….gee, I think it was categorized as an SUV…

MINIme Oct 15th, 2007 Link

All the talk about a fractured community and (paraphrased) “I am done with MINI if this happens…” is utter nonsense. If you enjoy your car (MINI), then drive it. Why should it matter what the company builds next? There will most likely always be a following for the 1st generation “new” MINI, as well as the second generation R56. To some, as mentioned previously, it is blasphemy to put a turbocharger (gasp)in a MINI. Others, claim the MINI in new form is a smoother, nicer ride. Opinions…everyone has one or two. Again, if MINI builds the right SUV/SAV I will have one in my garage. If not, I will watch them drive by, wave and wonder what might have been.

Jay9s Oct 15th, 2007 Link

A good example might be the Miata crowd. OK, it’s a little bit different situation, but anyway there is a Miata club right here in my town…they (about 12 or so) get together once a month, drive all around, park at the Tim Hortons, and just love their cars and I get the idea that they don’t give a fiddler’s what Mazda does.

Lazy S Oct 15th, 2007 Link

When did we start writing membership rules to join the MINI Community? If people love the MINI brand, but can’t live without the extra storage space, a MINI SAV keeps them in the brand family. Let’s not be too quick to demonize the concept by branding it with the three automotive “scarlet letters”. The “out motoring” crowd is more defined by people who love to drive MINIs (of all varieties), than it is by people who sit in judgement over what is and is not a MINI. Less politics and more driving!

Coruscation Oct 16th, 2007 Link

It could work out if it’s small and efficiently and innovtively packaged.

And cuter than the Suzuki X-90.

Should have enough clearance and ruggedness to do u-turns over kerbs.

robble Oct 16th, 2007 Link

this will be my last MINI if they do this

bye bye.. There will be 10 to replace you – and you’ll be the only loser.

Jon Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Still sitting here wishing Mini would develop something unique, believe or not there is more that just SUV’s to pursue.

I also have to say that the Porsche community was damaged by the development of the SUV, yes its true that many are sold and quite capable but also a large number of 911 owners turned their backs to the community. Same happened in the BMW brand. Guessing we are going to see a tiny 3000 lb Mini. Hard to imagine something that doubles the weight of the classic could be labeled a Mini heh. Still believe this is Mini choosing profit over owners.

Tony Oct 16th, 2007 Link

I love the Autoexpress rendering. A little chunkier looking with slightly bigger wheels – how about the JCW kit as well as 4WD? – How about a proper works version fighting it out in WRX?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_449/car_photo_224500_7.jpg

Chuck Oct 16th, 2007 Link

I heard the Army and Air Force bought up all the unsold Pontiac Aztecs and used them for target practice.

Eric Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Do you hear that rumble? It’s not a MINI SUV, it’s Sir Alec rolling over in his grave!

The MINI was originally from Europe; small narrow roads, small cars
The American’s are the ones asking for more SUVs?
If I want an SUV, I’m going to get something that will be usable for moving stuff. I can fit alot of crap in my MINI. But when I need more space, I don’t go out to borrow a RAV4. Instead, I rent a F150 or something like that.
Saw a license plate on a MINI the other day that said, “ANTI-SUV”… guess they’ll have to get that changed to “SUV-WNAB”

Mark@miniofthemainline Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Just because they are planning to build it does not mean you have to buy it. But I’m guessing pleanty of people will, our society is all too convinced that they NEED an SUV. (as a guy that sells MINI’s for a living, I’ve seen far too many people that think that way – I however, am not one of them) It will sell like hot cakes if they build it. Lots of people that buy cars never read a single forum. Then again, what do I know?

Mark@miniofthemainline Oct 16th, 2007 Link

If Sir Alec were still around… he would be one RICH fella!

Mark (Texas) Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Great discussion. But remember, there is is going to be a marked difference between what the U.S. buyer thinks of as a Sports UTILITY Vehicle, and a MINI’s idea of a Sports ACTIVITY Vehicle. Most of the neg posters are thinking SUV, when they need to be thinking outside that pre-conceived box, like I’m sure the MINI designers are. Think cool Woody Surf car, not some land-barge of a Ford Excursion. I’d buy a MINI SAV over the coup any day, just for the added versatility.

Bwana Yak Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Jeez. You would think a community of people based around a car that’s a hoot to drive in town and on the track would welcome a new version that’s also a hoot to drive on bumpy country trails and in the snow.

I am stunned by the closed-mindedness of some of the posters here. So the SAV will be a little bit bigger. It will still have everything that makes a MINI a MINI: superb handling, the unique MINI style, great mileage, power if you want it – what’s not to be excited about? It’s going to be tiny compared to just about every other vehicle of its type, but with the heart and soul of the MINI bulldog.

I love my ‘06 MCS (45K miles on it already). I enjoy every minute of my daily commute on twisty back roads, and then on weekends I put the rack on it, load it up with my kayaks and camping gear and head out into the wilderness, or at least as far into the wilderness as my MCS will let me go. The MINI SAV is targeted directly at me, and I am part of the MINI community.

All this talk of “I’m abandoning MINI if they make this thing” is juvenile. It sounds like “I’m not going to be friends with Janey anymore because she likes Suzy.” Grow up. We don’t live in a simplistic world, and MINI doesn’t exist to serve your personal desires for exclusivity.

I am 100% in favor of the MINI SAV, as long as it stays within the core concepts that make a MINI what it is: small, fast, nimble, strong and unique. If I wanted a generic SUV crossover I could pick up a CRV or RAV4 or Outback down at the corner auto lot, but I’m waiting to get a MINI SAV that I’ll have to drive 200 miles to buy and another 200 miles every time it needs to be serviced. That’s brand loyalty, not this stuff about abandoning MINI if they don’t limit themselves to only making your car.

Jay9s Oct 16th, 2007 Link

}————-{ = Cooper

}—————{ =Clubman

}—————–{ =MINI SAV?

}————————–{ = typical SUV

…It just might be MINI, y’all…..

Callahan Oct 16th, 2007 Link

A MINI will still be a MINI. It may bring others into the MINI fold who were put off by its compactness. Increased sales means increased profits which inturn means increase development money. This may be a gateway for development of an AWD or a over the top JCW. With Oil and gas rising through the roof I do not think that BMW will do anything that will INCREASE their fleet milaeage scores. There will be those of you who absolutely despise a MINI’esque SUV. There will be those who love it. The simple answer is if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. I personally am not that overly fond of the Clubman and do not plan to buy one. That does not mean it is not the ideal car for someone else. Something else to remember about the perceived dilution of brands, remeber that Porsche is bringing out the Panamerica in 2010 — a sedan. A company that oes not alter itself to meet consumer demands quicly fades away.

Dan S Oct 16th, 2007 Link

A Mini SAV/SUV would be a great addition to the line.

Look, quiet your fears! Mini/BMW isn’t going to be hiring unemployed Pontiac Aztec designers to design it. And, just like no sentient being would confuse the Clubman with a Taurus X, Mini simply would not design a SAV that could be confused with a CRV any more than our Mini would be confused with an Accord coupe.

rattmobbins Oct 16th, 2007 Link

I personally have mixed feelings about a MINI SUV (or SAV as their calling it).

I think that it WOULD be kinda cool to have a “go anywhere” MINI. I could take it to obscure mountain bike trails and stuff. That could be cool.
On the other hand, I do hate the idea of seeing a ton of “soccer moms” driving MINIs. I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.

PaulGraz Oct 16th, 2007 Link

“Damage the Brand” can mean different things. From BMW’s point of view, anything that generates more profit is helping the brand, not damaging it. To them, allowing profits to erode would be the worst damage they can imagine.

The bottom line is that any car line has to evolve in today’s marketplace. The economics are different now than when original Mini’s were produced.

You can only sell small cars to so many people, it’s a finite market. And most of that finite market is filled with econoboxes, so the MINI niche is even smaller. In order to survive, MINI has to expand. And there’s a trend right now in the US; people are still buying SUVs but they are buying smaller SUVs. Even Hummer is reacting to that trend. I talk to people all the time who are ready to dump their TRUCK-SUV, they want a smaller, CAR-SUV. They still want the AWD, they want room for 4 + a bunch of stuff, they want 4 doors, and they want a status symbol – but now they want better fuel economy too. Apparently 14 mpg gets old after a while. Go figure…

It seems that the Ford Excursions are out and the Honda CRVs are in.

So the smaller vehicles in this class stand to gain sales, and BMW is jumping on that. They can call it “SAV” but the public isn’t going to fall for that – it is what it is.

There will be MINI owners who don’t like this – myself included. But I understand why they are doing it. I don’t think I’ll be a repeat customer anyhow, because there’s too much about the R56 that doesn’t appeal to me. Stretching it and putting AWD underneath is only going to push me away further. But as has been noted here over and over, other buyers will replace us. MINI wont be concerned about the lack of repeat sales as long as cars are moving out the door. And I’ll just keep my 03 MCS running a while longer…

The MINI SUV will sell well, rest assured.

However – I can’t help thinking about what BilboBaggins posted. How many times did I visit the MINIUSA web page, greeted by: “The SUV backlash starts here”

What’s the new slogan? “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em”???

Matt G. Oct 16th, 2007 Link

> I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.

We’re way past that point.

Mark (Texas) Oct 16th, 2007 Link

On the other hand, I do hate the idea of seeing a ton of “soccer moms” driving MINIs. I think that a MINI owner should be a MINI enthusiast, not just a person looking for a “cute” car.

If the only people buying MINIs were the “enthusiasts” BMWs grand experiment resurrecting the MINI would have failed, and the plant in Oxford shut years ago.

Dave Mac Mini Oct 16th, 2007 Link

The Porsche analogy is a good one. A Porsche 911 lover turns up his nose at the Cayenne, but the Cayenne is the best selling Porsche ever. The 911 buyers still buy and enjoy their cars, but the company makes scads of money from the SUV. Everybody is happy. If you think a MINI SUV or SAV or whatever is reason not to buy a MINI, then don’t buy one, but for me it will not factor into my decision. I am on MINI no. three, and am looking longingly at a Clubman for my wife. In the meantime, speculation seems like a waste of time. Wait and see what MINI offers, and then bash away if you like. Golly, you might even like it!

Nathaniel Salzman Oct 16th, 2007 Link

I guess I get the unfair advantage of coming to this post late, but nonetheless, as often on MotoringFile, the word “brand” gets used but not actually defined. So we get posts like:

I think the Clubman damaged the MINI brand

Care to elaborate on that?

And then the classic:

If MINI is going to release SUV version of it, I am moving on to other brands when my lease is done! Seriously, if there is a SUV in the line up under MINI brand, itâ€™s not the same anymore!! SUV will just ruin MINI brand! Trust me on that.

Good riddance then. That’s like throwing away your 501s because Levi’s put out a pair of corduroys. I love my Cooper S on its own merits and nothing MINI does short of gross, Enron-type corporate irresponsibility is going to change how much I love the sound of my supercharger.

Everybody’s opinions are actually very interesting, and yes in part that perception makes up the brand. However, a lot of the backlash against the MINI SAV, in my mind, seems to be rooted in some a group of false notions.

A) That a MINI SAV will be big. Sure, it will be bigger, but we’re talking only a slight jump in size over the Clubman, which is all of 9 inches longer overall and not a spit wider than the coupe. Even relative to the new “crossover” market, a MINI SAV would be very small for its class – especially here in the states.

B) That it would be inefficient. Short of some sort of hybrid system, I doubt a MINI SAV would push Cooper mpg numbers, but I’d wager economy would still be a very high priority. This isn’t a Tahoe we’re talking about here. And keep in mind that there’s more to efficiency than raw mpg. Todd made a great point in WRR #193 that something MINI that could actually, comfortably carry 4+ people and their gear has a very real appeal. What’s more efficient? Two people at 34 mpg, or 5 people and their stuff at 30 mpg?

C) Performance will be lacking. In terms of sheer track-day lap times, this is a valid point, as we’ve heard the AWD will be tuned more for snow and less for the track. However performance, like effeciency, is relative. Even on an 1-2″ higher lift, the active safety factor of a car tuned by MINI and BMW is much higher than the equivalent Saturn small SUV. I think of Gabe’s comment about the X5 “having no business handling as well as it does.” Yet somehow there’s this expectation that a MINI SAV would be some sort of mushy, body-rolling cornering nightmare. Where does this come from? And just like in the economy category, I’d much rather drive something like a MINI SAV down a rutted dirt or gravel road than my MCS.

D) That only wasteful, obnoxious yuppies would have want or need for a MINI SAV. As though the coupe is somehow like kryptonite – forcefully repelling the wasteful – as though every time one of us passes an Escalade or an H2 the driver gets a ringing in her ears and spills her lattÃ©. There are plenty of dunder-headed non-recyclers who drive Coopers right now. Could not the inverse still be true for the MINI SAV? Could it yet be desirable to the same level-headed people who the MINI appeals to now but are looking for that elusive MINI mojo in a package that’s (gasp) a bit more practical?

Now all that said, the purist in me abhors the notion of the “soft-roader” MINI model. I think the BMW X1 should fill that role and leave MINI well enough alone. However, idealism and pragmatism rarely share a cab. Given the US market demands, a MINI SAV is a smart addition to the brand because like the Clubman, it will diversify the MINI product offering and give even more people a place to belong. And if you’re still threatened by the idea, think of it this way. The success of a MINI SAV will be what continues to subsidize fantastic, petrol-headed stuff like the JCW Challege Race Car. Is it ideal in the sense of what we enthusiasts will clamor for? Not really. But is it still doing more with less? I optimistically expect it to.

What’s more truly anti-SUV than doing it better?

NS in MN

Jim W. Oct 16th, 2007 Link

I’m for a MINI – make that a MAV – that is small as the moke was, with the 10 inch tires, raised clearance, and heck why not try the 3-wheeled design of Buckminster Fuller’s Dymaxion car while they’re at it.

I’m serious.

Jon Oct 16th, 2007 Link

Really enjoying the debate guys/gals, lots of valid points on all sides I think so far.

What I would hate to see lost in the Mini community is the inclusivness of it. Our community is unique in the car community, would be a sad day when this would end. I also believe the biggest sellers of the Mini brand and its current standing is the Mini community, BMW/Mini should remember this I think.

GregW Oct 17th, 2007 Link

Now I am really starting to worry about MINI. Every car BMW has made has gotten bigger model after model. Will the SUV damage the brand? – most likely not but when does MINI stop and MAXI start?

Bwana Yak Oct 17th, 2007 Link

when does MINI stop and MAXI start?

It’s all relative to the type of vehicle. The MINI SAV will be MINI’s variant of the SUV vehicle type, and in that context it will be mini. Compared to a different vehicle type, such as a three-door hatch, it may seem maxi, but that’s not a fair comparison.

I think the SAV will enhance the brand rather than damage it, infusing the MINI concept into a new market space.

tsukiji Oct 17th, 2007 Link

+1 enhance

nervous Oct 17th, 2007 Link

The only thing that could damage the brand is poor performance & build quality. I don’t see myself driving one, but I can’t imagine not being MINI loyal for the rest of my life!

Mark (Texas) Oct 17th, 2007 Link

Maybe some insight on what will go into the MINI SAV design in this interview with Chris Bangle, Director of Design at BMW on the BMW Concept X6 SAV.

http://vodcast.bmw.com/stories/3319351/

Jon Oct 17th, 2007 Link

Good interview with Chris Bangle, BMW/Mini does have a lot of very talented people in it. I am still with Gabe on this one though, I wouldn’t have nearly the problem I do with this if they would have just stretched it some and added two doors, but jacking it up and putting wanabe off-road bling to the design still just makes me shake my head. Seems so predictable, has Mini gotten so uncreative that all they can do is design the same crossover that BMW has along with most of the rest manufactures?

O(=^=)OCapn Oct 17th, 2007 Link

Will a MINI SUV Damage the MINI Brand?

No.

Mark (Texas) Oct 18th, 2007 Link

Hey Jon, I agree, but when I look at the Concept X6, I don’t see a jacked-up wannabe offroader.

http://www.bmwusa.com/conceptX6

Let’s wait and see what the MINI designers do with this kind of thing for the MINI SAV.

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