Will a MINI SUV Damage the MINI Brand?

Sections: R60 (Countryman) Oct 15th, 2007 81 Comments

Over the past 5-6 years, MINI has used the “less is more” angle unabashedly in their marketing around the world. They’ve publicly made fun of SUV’s gas mileage and in subtle ways even their owner’s personalities. In fact it’s worth remembering that the very first statement on MINIUSA.com was “The SUV backlash starts here.” And through it all the MINI community (especially in the US) has eaten it up. They’ve take to the feeling of “MINI-ness”. The cheeky attitude that doesn’t outright say “I’m better than you” but makes a strong argument for the fact that maybe I’m just a little smarter as a MINI owner.

So what does a MINI SUV mean to all of this? Will you take the same pride in MINI ownership once you see your first little MINI SUV poorly parked at your local Starbucks? Will you still wave or have the same smile on your face when you come across one in a parking lot?

In short, how do you think the MINI SUV will change the brand and how you interact with it? Is it time for the brand to grow and us as owners to welcome the new model and possibly a new demographic into the fold? Or does this move potentially damage the brand irreparably?

Written By: Gabe

Edge

I think it most definitely damages the brand. I’m open to all kinds of MINI “variants” for different purposes, but the idea of a MINI SUV (or a MINIvan, for example) flies in the face of the “really small” concept that defines the brand.

Now, a MINI Moke variant would do well – but it really, seriously has to be no bigger than the existing MINIs, in the same way that the original moke was still a very small vehicle. Also, excessive ground clearance doesn’t do much to help define that either.

I very much dislike that BMW is caving to the SUV mentality in the ONE brand it has that is supposed to stand against oversized stupidity.
Brian

Damaging + 1
saakey

I’m sorry but BMW is sure to destroy the Mini brand if they keep at it. It’s the old saying (and I don’t know why we say it, as no one ever lives by it) – But it goes something like this – “Leave well enough alone”. Well it seems that no one can ever do that… Nothing last forever and things always change/evolve. So I’m not surprised. The bottom line is BMW is a company… a normal company whose main objective is to make money. And if they feel they could sell a boat load of these Mini Suv’s then they will do it. They certainly wouldn’t stop production of something because a lot of us “loyal” Mini owners wouldn’t like it. C’est la vie i guess. I won’t be buying one =P
Matt

I have no problem with model variants since this was done in the past generation. What I will say is that the MINI brand and mystique will probably remain intact and I don’t expect a new type of demographic or customer suddenly buying MINI’s because there’s an SUV on the market. I think what MINI is about nowadays is not “small,” but “brand MINI.” Whether it’s a coupe, wagon, convertible, or an SUV it will still look, feel, and have the same sense of being “different.” It will still not draw in the “average joe.” I don’t think the you will find someone deciding between a Ford Edge or the new Mini SAV.
matt

will it be a legitimate SUV or more like an Audi Allroad or like the concepts? if the later i don’t see there much damage at all. it’ll be a tougher little runabout that provides a bit more utility. however, if were talking about a RAV-4 CRV style vehicle, yes the brand is damaged and not by a small amount.
MINI Vanilli

i think we are getting ahead of ourselves on this one. from what i’ve heard its going to be a rugged sporty clubman with bigger fenders and wheels. not quite an SUV!! if they use the current engine used in the MCS it will get fantastic gas mileage and have loads of power. im not seeing the problem here? im on my 3rd MINI so i am a big fan of the brand. the MINI redefined what a car could be, why not give this MINI SUV a chance to redefine what an SUV could be.
VMMVMMM

If MINI built an 8 passenger V10 SUV that stood 7 feet tall and 11 feet long, then yes, it would damage the brand, but does anyone actually think that a parent company as smart as BMW and those in charge at MINI would actually consider something that didn’t embrace the MINI character and culture? I think it’s easy to sit and criticize while not one person knows anything about what the finished product will be, but as for me, I have full confidence in these people. They will not pull a Porsche and come out with an ugly beast like the Cayenne, I’m positive of that. These guys know what they are doing.
AN

Remember a year ago when everyone on this board was up in arms about the Clubman being too big and not a MINI? It’s still a tiny car, in the overall scheme of things. If the SAV is a jacked Clubman (think Allroad vs the A6 Avant) then it’s not really an SUV or SAV in any sense of the word.

And of course no one is forcing you to buy it. You can love your MC/MCS hardtop and not be suicidal about the other models.
Lucas

I agree with Edge above. If the MINI SUV/SAV/Van is to remain compatible with brand, it would have to be in line with the “less is more” tradition. Pointless excessive ground clearence of the current SUV market (I mean seriously, how many SUVs on the road has ever been off-road?) is really contradictory to the minimalist meet practicality mentality of the MINI brand.

Quite frankly, IMO the clubman is already stretching the brand a bit.
Craig

If it is as I suspect, that it will be a jacked Clubman like the Subaru Outback is a jacked legacy and the Audi Allroad is a jacked A6 wagon, I’m ok with it. If the difference in size is measured in feet instead of inches I’ll start doubting MINI’s intelligence.
Motoring Advisor

If it were up to Ford, GM or Chrysler I would definitely feel that it would damage the brand. But BMW does not have to try and appease the masses like the big 2 and a half do. This is BMW. They do what they want and don’t care what the others think. (In a good way).

Besides, all you have to do is open a Roundel to realize how much BMW cares about tradition and heritage.

If BMW didn’t consider and homage to past variants, we would probably all wonder why.

You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Chuck

How about an all-wheel drive Clubman, not jacked up.
MA

A cheeky little SAV that gets good mpg? For a brand to succeed, it needs to grow. It’s not going to be a monster (smaller than an x3, bigger than clubman), but innovative. MINI will do it right. So I am not worried one bit.
http://byzet.com Ron

It does sound like the MINI SAV/SUV will still be smaller than most cars, so I think it could be kinda neat. It’s poking fun at “real” SUVs.

I do think as the brand grows that the smile you get at seeing another MINI or the waving will disappear. Try as they might, I don’t think BMW can keep that kind of energy going as the brand grows – not because of the variety of models but just because of the number of MINIs on the road. You’ll have drivers who might just as well have bought a Ford or a GM but just happened to find some deal on a MINI, who don’t see it as anything special. How do you stop that? I don’t know. Keep availability low? Destroy any MINI older than 5 years? Don’t sell MINIs to anyone who also has an American car on their comparison list? Keep making sure that the MINI is so quirky that it only appeals to a small # of people?
http://inomis.com iNomis

Explorer, CRV, RAV4, Allroad are all boring pigs. Don’t give us yet another PISS-UV (Play it Safe Sport Utility Vehicle). Another on-road only MINI model is so boring it could only hurt the brand. MINI has tamed the streets. If MINI wants another success like the current MINI, reinvent the Jeep and give us an off-road MINI go-cart. A go anywhere 30MPG+ funster. Something new, small and different. Sure, 90% will never go off-road but 90% of us don’t take our current MINIs to the track either. The brand won’t suffer if MINI gives us something that respects the originality, purposefulness and spirit of the brand.
Shamus

Guys…love the SUV pic, I’m still laughing. I wonder if you’ll get comments on this one?

I’m for the idea of a ruggedized, all-wheel drive version of the clubman, nothing more. The brand is built on “smaller is better”. Why tarnish that image by bowing to industry standard of everyone offering an SUV? Go ahead and put out as many SUVs as you’d like under the BMW moniker…The name is MINI! Let’s keep it that way.
LTL M CPE

Glad to see most folks realize a MINI version will be just that, mini, and not a full size SUV. In BMW-speak they are SAV’s anyhow. :) A “jacked up” clubman as it’s been called will be great and won’t be anything close to a Ford Explorer.

Bring on the MINI Sav, my dogs are waiting to ride in it!

Jim
Jon

Well, my personal vote on this one isn’t going to be a surprise to anyone. Let me start by saying I adore the Mini brand from the original into the current BMW/Mini days. I think Gert has a fantastic collection of people working around him and they have a well proven track record.

Yes, this is going to cause damage to the Mini community. I sadly can see this causing a fracture in our community because of the numbers of people that will not accept a SUV in their ranks. Personally this single decision by Mini has moved me from being one of the largest supporters of the Mini brand to feeling that Mini has personally turned its back on its community. I hope that I am wrong with my view of the future for the brand, but for me personally the day this vehicle enters the market my association with the BMW/Mini brands ends.

Would love to see BMW/Mini discuss this with their community and see if a few more sales is worth a sizable percentage of their community feeling betrayed.
Alan Smithee

It’s a good question.

While I’d like to see future Minis remain, well, mini (sub-3,000lbs), I realize the market is limited and competition from other manufacturers are on the way.

Which means BMW must go in different directions with the Mini brand to keep the division growing, and unlike going smaller with a Smart competitor, larger vehicles mean larger profits both in terms of sales volume and margin per vehicle. So I think a Mini crossover SUV is inevitable, whether we like it or not.
http://www.alldigitalnyc.com drew
i dont think MINI would ever dare bring to market a gas guzzler…i actually expect them to redifine/replace the current view of what an suv or sav is, and offer a solution that is 100 percent MINI. i don’t see how this car could possibly damage the brand if done right. anything resembling a ford expedition with a MINI badge on it would be suicidal, so don’t expect it to happenlike that.

i suspect we’ll all be jonesing for one when its released….mark my words.
- dl
http://mcarlo52.themotorcade.com mike c.

I seem to remember when some BMW fans hated the idea of what became the X5 and X3 and saying that it would degrade the BMW brand. Maybe it did or maybe it didn’t, but BMW is still strong. So it’s very possible and perhaps likely that the SAV would sell well enough to help BMW (and MINI). That being said, I would not buy it.
Jon

The saddest part of this evolution of the brand is I think BMW is going to try to link this development to the Moke to prove its historical pedigree. However I can assure you that the Moke is more akin to a striped down version of a jeep than anything that has ever been developed as a SUV. This is going to by just another micro crossover, still wonder why they choose such a predictable path instead of trying to come up with something as original to the market as the Frank Stephenson’s design was in 2001 something no SUV will ever be imo.
AN

“A fracture in the community.” Just like the original Mini owners who said the new MINI wouldn’t sell. So, ok – they keep to themselves at the club meets and rallies – and the other 200K owners hang together too.

Unless the MINI SAV is X3-sized, there’s no issue.
Beavers

I am impressed that folks can muster such conviction on the basis of pure unadulterated conjecture. We have no idea what MINI is coming up with, except that we think it will be a bit bigger than the clubman. The MINI track record leads me to believe that this is not going to be boring, and that it will not be a complete departure from the MINI style. “Leaving well enough alone” is not the kind of business/design philosophy that created Mini, and it surely is not the philosophy I would want them to adopt now.

You don’t cultivate whacko fans like us by losing sight of your brand OR by sitting on your ass and becoming derivative. Even if you think this is the evil influence of BMW, you have to give them some credit. They are not Pontiac, and this will not be an Aztec, for the love of god… /shudders violently

I am with MINI Vanilli on this one – we are fans for a reason, and that reason is what should lead us to be VERY curious about what this thing will look like. I for one have NO IDEA if this is a car I might be interested in owning, except that everything this company has produced from 1959-2007 has intrigued the hell out of me. I wouldn’t want to own all of them (MiniMoke = psycho golf cart IMHO), but they are always interesting – never boring.

I suggest we holster those wagging fingers until we have a little info to work with – I am betting that this will NOT be a ho-hum offering.

Beavers
Vanwall

If any fractures occur, they are self-inflicted – perceptions are everything in life, so it’s inevitable that mis-perceptions will happen, and it’s just sad to see so many potential flat-eathers, oops, I mean absolutists, among the New MINI owners.

I went through the last leave-taking in the late ’60s, and had quite an anabasis until 2002, and then had to endure the same sort of carping about what was a Mini/MINI and what wasn’t. Maybe I’m more open to variants – I wasn’t shy about including the Austin America and MG1100 in my little car worldview, so I’m happy to see what a MINI yump-jumper will look like. I want MINI to be around for quite some time, and to survive, they must have a larger footprint in the market, regardless.

I notice BMW refers to it as an SAV, rather than SUV, so I think they have something in mind closer to a buff Clubman, rather than a Suburban, so I’ll keep my criticisms under wraps until they un-wrap something. I won’t be shy about critiquing any aspect I feel needs it, but at this point, I ain’t gonna get my panties in a bunch about it until I see more definitive information.
MINIme

I agree that MINI should give us a legit SUV if they plan to go forth with this project. I am thinking along the lines of the Suzuki Samurai. I am sure some of you remember the fateful 60 Minutes edition that doomed the Samurai. A test track driver had to push the vehicle past its limits dozens of times to affect a rollover, and in the end, following the broadcast, the model’s popularity decreased to the point that US sales of the Samurai were discontinued after 1995. The vehicle was on pace to outsell the VW Beetle prior to this event! So, as you can probably figure out, I am a big fan of the Samurai and mini SUVs in general. If BMW could get this right (they won’t), I would be the first in line to purchase one. However, since it is highly likely that it will be a Clubman with higher fender arches and cosmetics that say crossover, I will probably continue to drive my ’05 S and dream of what could be. It is nice to dream though. I love what BMW has done to revive the MINI brand, but the current vehicle is so far from the original, that I do not understand how folks can criticize the notion of an SUV as an expansion of what the company has done to date.
M. Dillon

Since MINI is known for actually taking some of the suggestions,from its’ customers,here’s my following suggestion:

Add the braking system,that saves fuel,that is found,on the MINIs,overseas;plus,bring the diesel variant,with the braking system,as well. By doing this,MINI would have a selling point,that NO other small SUV can claim. A SUV,with the same gas mileage,as a typical MINI.

Also,I have spoken to individuals who wanted to know if MINI would put out a,”larger MINI”. When I informed them of the Clubman,and the upcoming MINI SUV,I could see the excitement in their eyes. Therefore,I know that their is a market.

In closing,I have to agree with some of the above posters,that a MINI SUV won’t hurt the MINI line up.

However,the MINI SUV,has to be the RIGHT type,of SUV. Thus,the above suggestion.
Mark (Texas)

M Dillon has hit the mark exactly. I work with a lady who loves MINI’s, drools over mine constantly, and would kill to be part of the MINI community. But she has two rug-rats in car-seats, and a one-car budget. She would buy a 5-door SAV MINI in a heart-beat if there was one.
http://www.matthewgifford.com/ Matt G.

Gabe, I can’t believe you didn’t link to the Canyonero’s theme song.
Ken

Matt G. Oct 15th, 2007 Link Gabe, I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t believe you didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t link to the CanyoneroÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s theme song.

That was righteous dude.

I loved it. The MINI H8. Remember the bigger the number the smaller the SUV.
joey drama

da da da, da da da, da da da CANYONAROOOOOOO!!!!1
jas cooper

I think the Clubman damaged the MINI brand. Give me an R56 with AWD, and I’ll be happier than a pig in poop…
bavarian racing green

…this is a silly question, in that it will of course damage the brand in the eyes of some and enhance the brand in the eyes of others…

…i seem to remember Porsche releasing some butt ass ugly and lame variants in the past and presently have a ginormous SUV in their stable…

…i have yet to talk to a 911 owner who would give up his/her ride in retaliation…

…they just drive around happily and scowl at the Cayenne when it passes…

…life goes on…
Craig

Ã¢â‚¬Â¦they just drive around happily and scowl at the Cayenne when it passesÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

I think that’s pretty much everyone’s reaction when seeing the Cayenne. It’s like sucking on lemons. Even if you like lemons, your face will scrunch up just like when you look at a Cayenne. This doesn’t mean that you will have the same reaction to a 911 just because it has a Porche badge just like the Cayenne. The same is true of MINI as regards the Clubman and Colorado.
J. Mills

It’s a total turn off, and if they do it this will be my last MINI. Too many SUVs on the road as it is, no reason to add another, and the argument that they need to sustain the brand is BS, it’s a niche brand for BMW and should be left that way. Leave the SUVs for BMW.
CooperS33

It is as simple as this: SUV=The Antithesis of all that is mini. lets list the things that make the mini great:it breaks away from convention,it can be loud fast and raw ,it can be pushed through corners with ease,IT IS A SYMBOL OF INDIVIDAULITY. MOST OF ALL IT IS CAR FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT LOVE TO DRIVE
Can an SUV accomplish those things?….Personally I think not
cze33r

Mini redefined the small car and the market is all the better for it, but I don’t understand why they would want to do the same with the small SUV/SAV market.

Worldwide Mini sales were up 31% in September and we have the clubman, JCW Challenge and JCW Stage 2 coming in the next few years so it’s not like Mini will be struggling to sell cars.

We all bought our Mini’s because we wanted them, nobody ‘wants’ an SUV.
pete

MINI also admittedly made fun of turbocharged cars when they had a blower in the S. Now look what happened
lavardera

I’m just wonder where the H-E-double hockey sticks they are going to find a bigger speedo for this thing.
Bilbo Baggins

“In fact itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s worth remembering that the very first statement on MINIUSA.com was “The SUV backlash starts here.”"

That about sums up my opinion of a MINI SUV. I still think that it isn’t someplace that MINI should go.

Although I can see the desire to broaden the acceptance of the brand. To make more cars that share at least some parts of the platform to reduce costs. However, they will never get me to buy one. And as with most other things in life I will vote with my dollars.
Barry

For $5000. you could buy a Pontiac Aztec and put bonnet stripes on it.
nuvolari

I’m all for AWD, but raised suspension and “body cladding” just seems pointless on the MINI. That beinbg said, Porsche seems to have survived the Cayenne with brand image/equity relatively intact.
Jon

Lots of good comments on all sides of the debate.

What has kept me in the Mini community is that it doesn’t matter if its a convertable, cooper, diesel, cooper s they are all equally accepted within the Mini community. Go to a Porsche event, BMW event, or any other manafactures you will find a very segmented community. makes within the brand stand apart from the others. What rocks in my view is I get the same thrill seeing other Minis on the road no matter what they are, I just see the SUV fracturing the community.

I am hoping they they come up with an origonal however the micro luxury SUV has been done. Part what made the R50/R53 a success was that it created the luxury small hatchback market.
MINItron

Personally I am looking forward to seeing what they have up their sleeves. If it comes out,and I don’t like it I won’t buy one. Simple as that. I may despise what they come up with, but it won’t stop me from buying another MINI.
bavarian racing green

…MINItron…

…your name is badass…

…just wanted you to know…
Wetworth

I remember this conversation when Porsche announced a SUV. It may not be what everyone wants, but Americans buy SUVs. I doubt it will damage the brand much if done properly.
Jack

If MINI is going to release SUV version of it, I am moving on to other brands when my lease is done!

Seriously, if there is a SUV in the line up under MINI brand, it’s not the same anymore!! SUV will just ruin MINI brand! Trust me on that.
Matt

I am anti-suv and don’t have a problem with the idea of a MINI SUV because I trust that it will look nothing like an Explorer or Tahoe. I love the idea of a 4cy MINI SUV. It may actually be the anti-suv. I would really like another MINI to take roadtrips with the family but it would be hard to fit the wife and two kids and all the kids gear in a MCS or even a Clubman. And if you don’t have kids don’t even think of telling me how I could fit everything. You see it is not so much the kids with all their things, it’s the wife who insists that we can’t leave any thing behind.
Jay9s

OK, then….

1- Sir Alec would most likely find this whole concept of ‘damaging the brand’ and ‘dividing the community’ quite curious indeed.

2- What is up with the Clubman bashing? It’s a stretched MINI. That’s all. Just like the Countryman/Traveler way back in ’61. I simply do not see how the brand is negatively effected by it. Arguably the convertible more the charlatan…

3- It’s funny that MINIme mentioned the Samurai; my 1st ride was an 85 SJ410. It was no longer than a Golf and about as good on gas. And it was a helluvalottafun….gee, I think it was categorized as an SUV…
MINIme

All the talk about a fractured community and (paraphrased) “I am done with MINI if this happens…” is utter nonsense. If you enjoy your car (MINI), then drive it. Why should it matter what the company builds next? There will most likely always be a following for the 1st generation “new” MINI, as well as the second generation R56. To some, as mentioned previously, it is blasphemy to put a turbocharger (gasp)in a MINI. Others, claim the MINI in new form is a smoother, nicer ride. Opinions…everyone has one or two. Again, if MINI builds the right SUV/SAV I will have one in my garage. If not, I will watch them drive by, wave and wonder what might have been.

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