Auto Express Get Up Close to the MINI SUV

Timmee Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Those wheel arches are bulging. BMW alloys?

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

The bloated Mini lives, a 3000lbs Mini coming your way soon. The faux off-road Mini should be an interesting waste of company resources, oh well.

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c4 Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Jon, who cares? If this thing is going to give enough cash to MINI to continue development of your beloved hardtops, then I am all for it. Give it a chance before you shot it down. The SAV might be a surprinsingly good car when all is said and done.

Remember your disdain of the automatic transmission when it was first announced of its availability in the MCS?

(MF moderators, please take me out of your moderation queue for the last time!)

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b4mmy Jan 7th, 2008 Link

looks suspiciously like a cgi render under there… the lighting is too bright etc…

?

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Don’t get me wrong I have a large amount of respect for the Mini development team C4. Still doesn’t mean for a moment that I still consider this to be anything but a predictable boring SUV. I have no doubts that it will sell well. Just can’t wait to see every other manufactures of micro SUV advertise with the decade of SUV blasting Mini has done providing enough tinder for a long adverting stint.

The SUV backlash has begun

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eager2own Jan 7th, 2008 Link

I can’t wait for this car to come out. The reason: hopefully one day, every update won’t be followed with the same debate about whether MINI is killing the brand or not.

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Sorry to say eager2own that for my part I wont be letting this go. The base fact is that I still think that this is a major mis-step by Mini. As I am a major fan of the brand just can’t let it slip past.

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AeroJammin Jan 7th, 2008 Link

So did anyone else notice that the wheels are 5 lugs instead of 4?

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John Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Notice the 5 bolt pattern on the wheels form a BMW SAV.

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Motoring Avisor Jan 7th, 2008 Link

eager2own…

Well said.

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MINIme Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Might as well let it go fellas. Jon has proven to be passionate about his position on this subject and steadfast in his desire to make it known. Of course, I adamantly disagree with the notion of a fractured community… I personally detested the MINI campaign that rejected SUVs. I thought it was akin to a politician running a negative campaign. Now it looks as though the company will have to eat crow. All that aside, I can’t wait to see how this turns out. I am expecting to be disappointed, but remain hopeful.

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MINIme Jan 7th, 2008 Link

By the way, this thing needs 4 real doors and more ground clearance and lose the low-profile tires. If MINI would aim for the Land Rover LR2 they may just hit the mark…

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dave Jan 7th, 2008 Link

the cynicism isn’t really all that necessary nor productive. it’s not like they’re building a hummer; it’s a small-sized multi-purpose all-terrain vehicle. it’s not a pretend land rover, and that’s ok. a nice, useful, practical car that’s fun to drive, relatively economical, enough space for camping gears, kids, and a dog, and a bmw/mini product all at the same time, what’s wrong w/ that?

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Bwana Yak Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Yeah, but if I drive past an R60 in my R53 and see that it’s full of screaming kids and soccer balls and MacDonalds Happy Meal boxes, I’m gonna flip them off just on principle. Their very existence is ruining my motoring experience.

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

I have no personal rancor against anyone looking forward to the R60 nor anybody I will be seeing driving it eventually. I rather think that Mini could have chosen to fill many other niches that choosing to compete with every other manufacturer by going down the SUV path. Might be living with a protected Mini view but why does our brand have to be everything to everybody.

I feel raw enough about this move by Mini I have already been looking at replacing my future order for the factory JCW for a Porsche or a Lotus. I will not chose to purchase any BMW product after the SUV hits the marked again. Just my personal view

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AN Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Somehow I don’t think most Americans recall the SUV backlash ads. Not sure about eating crow.

And flipping off kids in a MINI doesn’t seem very MINI to me – though it’d be fun to watch.

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nuvolari Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Gabe, any word on whether we can expect a high-performance AWD offering? Not interested in this at all, but would LOVE to see something from MINI along the lines of an R32/RS4/Sti/Evo.

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Bwana Yak Jan 7th, 2008 Link

You would consider a Porsche, maker of the Cayenne, while you would not consider a MINI, maker of the R60? I can’t to see the logic in that decision. How does the Cayenne not ruin the Porsche brand if the R60 ruins the MINI brand?

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

The major difference to me is that Porsche deciding to make a bloated vehicle is thrashing its own reputation. Meanwhile the R60 is BMW thrashing Mini’s historical perspective of a few more dollars in their pockets. I have no issue with BMW producing SUV’s with their brand all over it. Sir Alec Issigonis came up with the idea of a minimalistic vehicle, now BMW decides to create a luxury suv which to me is light years from what a Mini stands for. Truth be told I even had a bit of hesitation over the new Mini when it came out, but at least it was still a small car and did still have some feeling of minimalistic feel to it.

BMW should create these mis-begotten things within their brand and leave Mini with some small piece of its historical precedence intact IMO.

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Bwana Yak Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Well, it’s true that the new MINI only pays homage to the original Mini in its size and handling and styling, but the new MINI is really based on the souped-up version of the original Mini, not the average everyday get-around-town Mini that Sir Alec envisioned. A modern car built off that original Mini concept would have been a total failure in today’s marketplace, plus it wouldn’t have passed crashtests or emissions tests. And it would have been competing with the Chevy Geo and other craptastic cars of that ilk. So we aren’t really talking about Sir Alec’s Mini at all when we talk about the current MINI. I can see why you would have issues with the new MINI in general, let alone the R60, if you are looking at it from that historical perspective.

Once you get past the historical perspective issue (if you can), there is a good reason for the R60 to be a MINI, not a Beamer. Even though the current MINIs are luxury compacts, they still adhere to a minimalist concept within the luxury market space. BMW branding infers a certain amount of interior space, quietness and smoothness of ride that the MINI does not even try to achieve. I (eagerly) anticipate the R60 to feel like a MINI in those respects, not a beamer, with a direct contact ride, the drone of the exhaust in the air and the tight interior feel that I so love about my R53.

Maybe the R60 won’t be a car that you want to buy, but it will push automotive design in a positive direction that I would think you could agree with if you look at it within today’s market space and let go of the historical perspective angle. It will, after all, be one of the smallest SUVs on the road, which I hope you can agree is a good thing and it will have MINI’s style and handling. It won’t be Sir Alec’s SUV, but the R53/56 isn’t Sir Alec’s hot hatch, either.

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

I hear what your saying, what I am saying though is a luxury micro suv isn’t anything new on the market. I pass dozen on a daily basis that are very close to being as small as anything Mini is likely to develop with the R60.

Just feel that this lacks all sense of historical perspective for our brand.

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bavarian racing green Jan 7th, 2008 Link

…must struggle…

…to not argue…

…with…

…jon…………..

…ahh, that’s better…

…love the ‘monte’ so far, and if that picture is even close to the production dimensions, i’ll be first in line…

…behind jon…

…now back to playing metroid…

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OH Steve Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Why do people keep referring to this as an SUV? MotoringFile? I hardly think this new vehicle fits the definition. I think the usage of this ill-fitting acronym is partly to blame for the backlash. From what I understand the new model would compete with the likes of a Subaru WRX wagon.

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Jon Jan 7th, 2008 Link

The reason I refer to the R60 as a SUV is this is a general term. This is actually a crossover SUV. BMW likes the term SAV but this is nothing more that calling apples by another name. For me the faux off-road vehicles with their tough looking plastic trim makes me grin. The base fact is this is precisely aimed at small families that need a touch more room and want the security of 4wd. I don’t have any issue with this but still don’t believe Mini needs to turn their back on the history of the Mini brand.

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MINIme Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Bwana said it right. The new MINI is really nothing like the original. Well, maybe the most stripped down version of the Cooper could be considered a descendant, but that’s where the similarities end. I know that my optioned out ‘05 S would have been a spectacle back in the day sitting next to Sir Alec’s.

Dave, I’m not cynical. I’m a realist. But, that doesn’t mean I can’t have a wish list. If you think the Land Rover LR2 is a real offroader in the true sense, come on over and let me take you offroad in one of my built offroaders. The LR2 is nothing but an entry level Land Rover wannabe designed for the teenagers of Range Rover aficianados or those who lust for a Range Rover pedigee on a Ford Escape budget. Now, my 1994 Defender 90, on the other hand, is a true utility vehicle, purpose built for trekking to the far reaches of the globe. Very minimalistic, very rugged. The real deal. And that, is just what I happen to like in an SUV. I know this wouldn’t work for MINI. I am not delusional. But, I would like to see an LR2 competitor. After all LR was a BMW product for a brief period of time if you recall.

Jon, you stick to your guns man. Hell, I admire you, even though I think you are misguided. I suggest going with a Porsche. Great cars. I have owned several. Lotus, on the other hand, not so much.

OH Steve, the notion that we are going to get a Subaru WRX-like product out of all this is exactly what I fear. The WRX is a neat car, but MINI should be able to do something more boutique.

I love the original Mini for what it was and what it is. I love the New MINI for what it is in all it’s form. I look forward to the R60. I just hope it comes close to fulfilling my expectations.

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Gabe Jan 7th, 2008 Link

Gabe, any word on whether we can expect a high-performance AWD offering? Not interested in this at all, but would LOVE to see something from MINI along the lines of an R32/RS4/Sti/Evo.

I would too but wouldn’t bet on it with this generation.

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nuvolari Jan 7th, 2008 Link

:(

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cze33r Jan 8th, 2008 Link

There is a link on the Auto Express website that takes you the new Ferrari SUV … we are a vocal bunch, but I think the Ferrari enthusiasts will shoot this down with a passion. This is ironic considering Ferrari came out last year and said they where looking at ways to make all of their cars lighter and smaller. It’s purely a profit making exercise to produce an SUV, Porsche has alot to answer for !!!!

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Jon Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Personally I have no issue with a Ferrari SUV, mostly because I will never be a owner of any Ferrari let alone a SUV model lol.

Maybe we could send them the R60 to get it out of the Mini family.

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msh441 Jan 8th, 2008 Link

If that’s the final body style (there’s been suggestions that it isn’t…but it sure looks like it is), calling it an SUV is a stretch. It’s just a jacked up Clubman with AWD.

As I predicted: the R60 will be to the R55 what the Volvo XC70 AWD is to the V70 wagon. Nothing more.

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Hai Jan 8th, 2008 Link

It looks like a bulkier Clubman to me. Does anyone know if it also has a suicide door on the right like the Clubman?

Nevermind… I won’t be getting one anyway. It doesn’t look like I’ll be moving on from my R53 anytime soon.

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eager2own Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Dimension-wise, I don’t expect the final product to be much larger (if at all) than a jacked up Clubman. I do think that the Clubman cladding used on the mules will change, however. I’m sure MINI will try to visually differentiate from a Clubman . . . and I would expect another door. FYI: Edmunds just published the same photos along with a rendering of the Crossman — time will tell how close it is to the actual final design.

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Jon Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Well believe its already be noted that it will be a true 5 door, so that means it will be longer though I presume only slightly than the Clubman. Believe that its likely to keep the current width of the Clubman. Then pack on a couple hundred extra pounds worth of AWD and doors. Nothing that we have seen to date is anything more than a test mule body.

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eager2own Jan 8th, 2008 Link

^ Oh, well – so much for my hopes of a sliding door to make it a MINIvan.

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Jon Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Lol we will have to wait and see, I still have trust in the Mini design team to build something decent although to the end I will never support or accept this move.

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MINIme Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Jon,

We know, we know…

Are you going with a Cayman S or a 911?

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nuvolari Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Jon, will you ever support or accept this move by Mini? I’m not sure, because you’ve only stated your position 473 times at this point.

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Jon Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Have a couple options that I am looking at a new Cayman S or a 04 GT3 with 15k on it that belongs to a friend that is needing to get some space in his garage. Both are very interesting though GT3 is winning hands down now, a little more money but one sweet vehicle. Going to hold out until I hear about the factory JCW a bit more. Looking for a fun toy and though nothing from Mini will ever come close to either Porsche still a Mini addict, though not one that likes nor accepts SUV’s

474

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Motoring Advisor Jan 8th, 2008 Link

What makes people think this is going to be the size of a typical SUV? Or get the same gas mileage. BMW is not stupid. It’s going to be small, have all wheel drive, and have a more active lifestyle.

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Jon Jan 8th, 2008 Link

Never have said this is going to be a Hummer or anything huge. Actually I believe its going to be just a tad larger than a Clubman and several hundred pounds heavier. Kinda silly though to think you can have a more active lifestyle with a faux offroad SUV. True that 1 in 1000 will ever see anything but asphalt during its lifespan. Currently I have gone camping with my Mini, driven to ski slopes and over passes and have done any number of sporting events without needing anything more than my Mini. Still doesn’t change the fact that literally this market for micro crossover awd vehicles is crowded. Think Mini could have spent it money in many other area’s were its uniqueness would still shine.

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msh441 Jan 9th, 2008 Link

I bet the body is no longer than the Clubman. I doubt we’ll even see a 4th door. The wheel arches will be a little bigger to accomodate the larger 5-lug whels. Maybe with a little more flare to them… but thats about it. I think what we’re seeing is what we’re going to get.

The R60 is no more than MINI’s version of a Volvo V70XC, Subaru Forrester, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe AutoX, Saab 9-2x, Audi A3 wagon. Just another AWD wagon.

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Gabe Jan 9th, 2008 Link

I bet the body is no longer than the Clubman. I doubt we’ll even see a 4th door. The wheel arches will be a little bigger to accomodate the larger 5-lug whels. Maybe with a little more flare to them… but thats about it. I think what we’re seeing is what we’re going to get.

The eventual car will be larger than what you see above. This mule is only for testing the new drivetrain.

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Jon Jan 9th, 2008 Link

Still havn’t read anything confirming a 5 door but thinking its a natural. if they use the current suicide door think the length would be a tad longer and if they go to bigger doors longer yet.

Guess the question is a larger, heavier, longer Mini more Mini? Would have much rather seen them invest the money to figure out how to get the Mini D into the US market at 300+ comments more people have expressed interest in this than have ever mentioned their need of a SUV

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eager2own Jan 9th, 2008 Link

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eager2own Jan 9th, 2008 Link

> Insert here all comments that were also made following every update regarding Clubman development

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Jon Jan 9th, 2008 Link

Heh actually that doesn’t work in my case Eager2own, I have been a supporter of the Clubman all along. Initially its boxy rear end took a while to get comfortable with. But have said that I would point out that the Clubman has historical precedence something any SUV lacks. Make a minimalistic Mini jeep and I would say it has perspective but a luxery SUV is nothing more than just another SUV.

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MINIme Jan 9th, 2008 Link

Jon, I too would prefer a minimalistic Jeep style (actually Suzuki Samurai style) mini sport-ute. I mean something along the lines of the original Moke, with removable top and doors and a hose-out interior and drain plugs. I would be all over this. It ain’t happenin’! The compact SUV (if you want to call it that) market is somewhat crowded, but I don’t think the luxury end of the spectrum has much company, save for the Land Rover LR2 and BMW’s own X3. That is, at least in the USA. Someone will call me cynical again, but I do expect MINI to screw this one up (in my mind). I am just praying for 4 real doors and seating for 5. Not too much to ask.

The coupe might be alright for most people who camp, ski, etc., but it is too small for me to even cart my kids to school in. A longer, wider, less mini MINI is exactly what I need. Is it a departure from the original? Yep? Does it go against tradition and cause a few ripples? Obviously. Will it have more utility value? You betcha! Growth is painful. Progress sucks, right? It is inevitable. More people will be driving MINIs in the near future, for better or worse. One of the reasons I bought my “S” is for the exclusive nature of the brand. I have since come to accept that I see a dozen MINIs daily in my small town of 20,000. Who cares? I smile, wave and know that my car was spec’d by me for me and that MINIme is the coolest MINI in town. I doubt that the MINI SAV will be as common as the Honda CRV or the Ford Escape, but I do expect more consumers to jump on board the MINI bandwagon. I say welcome.

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Jon Jan 9th, 2008 Link

MINIme I hear and agree with a large portion of what your saying. I just don’t believe in the fact that Mini has to cover what is already a filled market. I have little doubt that this will sell well in the US as we sadly are addicted to SUV’s, but I ask at what cost to the Mini community?

I am surely more vocal than most but the concern about this vehicle runs deep in the Mini community. I am not trying to be an alarmist just I believe the Mini community is largely responsible for the feeling for the brand and I personally believe this could cause the first major break in the community at a time were the community is already loosing some of its personalities we all know and enjoy. A large number of my friends that have sold their Mini’s didn’t leave looking for a bigger car as much as a better performance car.

I just don’t believe a Mini should be everything to everybody, if I were in their shoes I would craft a 1 series SUV as it would be a natural step for a family. True if you have one or two kids the R60 should work, how about 3 or 4 kids, maybe the R62 should be a full size. Were does it end???

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eager2own Jan 9th, 2008 Link

I don’t think the luxury end of the spectrum has much company, save for the Land Rover LR2 and BMW’s own X3

Oh, as to that. Mercedes and Audi will both be introducing X3 competitors in the next year . . . and Cadillac may be doing so in 18-24 months. Infinity will also be redesigning the FX35 to be more competitive in this growing (soon to be crowded) segment — and I’ll be surprised if others don’t follow.

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eager2own Jan 9th, 2008 Link

. . . and, I forgot, there’ll also be a BMW X1

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MINIme Jan 9th, 2008 Link

Maybe it’s just my take on things, but I don’t see Cadillac or Infiniti as comparisons. Nor do I see Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Ford, Chevy, etc., in the same light with MINI. BMW, Mercedes, Audi…OK

The fact is there are plenty of compact cars on the market, but the MINI stands out. The same thing will happen with the SAV. The person who buys the Infiniti is not the same buyer as the person who buys MINI.

IMO, BMW, Mercedes and particularly Audi are way overpriced from top to bottom. Having said that, I am sure the new SAV will command a high price, as our MINIs are an expensive, premium offering as well. The difference is, MINI has panache, style, character and is singularly fresh, despite its attempt at retro.

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O(=^=)OCapn Jan 9th, 2008 Link

1) I don’t bother spending any minute reading any of that one guys comments. Why is it that ONE person can hijack a thread?

2)I Personally don’t like the R56, but I love the idea of this car!!! I am finally excited again! Give us a WRX STI killer!!! Make it long enough to enter into rallyes. And fast enough to compete. This is exciting. MINI getting back to it’s racing heritage. Too bad it is a wagon, but that fact alone wouldn’t keep me from buying it.

My only queston is (and I am surprised that no one has asked this yet): Is it retrofitable? :) Could we put this on an R53? Is Getrag making this? Okay that was three questions, but the first was my most serious.

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Jon Jan 10th, 2008 Link

Interesting so anyone that hold a strong view is bad, hmmm I have always though debate was a good thing.

Rarely is anything good design through complete acceptance and agreement.

I also have to say that I seriously doubt there is anyway to fit this into a R53 short of investing as much money as you would currently to make a R53 AWD aftermarket. This isnt going to be a WRX killer its going to be heavier and slower than the Coupe which is lightyears from being a WRX killer. Adding several hundreds of pounds worth of AWD isn’t going to make this an rally warrior without many thousands of dollars worth of gutting and improvment. Don’t get me wrong, throwing enough money at a car can make it do most anything you want. Just out of the box this is going to be designed for small families.

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MINIme Jan 10th, 2008 Link

I do have 3 kids. Hence, need a backseat that seats 3! I agree that MINI or any other boutique brand probably shouldn’t try to be all things to all people. However, I love my MINI and so do my kids. It is a shame that I can’t put the whole family in the car and go for a drive. Unless you are a family man, you probably won’t get this concept. I am not looking for a full-size vehicle. I have several. I have some way cool automobiles. And, while they each have their own appeal, they aren’t MINIs. So, combine my love of MINI with my need for seating for 5 total (including driver) and you can see why a real four door MINI appeals to me. I also happen to be an SUV enthusiast. Sorry, but I just don’t share the SUV Hater mentality. Never will. I love ‘em!
Again, in an attempt to wear out the subject of the “community”, and the notion of it beng fractured… Of course it will be fractured. It’s fractured daily. It’s called attrition. It is a part of life. The only way to stay alive is to keep evolving and changing and growing.

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MYTMINI Jan 10th, 2008 Link

Check this out: http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-mystery-mini-mule.html

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Jon Jan 11th, 2008 Link

Minime I can fully understand your view, believe it or not I am a Mini fan too. My personal dislike for SUV’s comes from a couple of places. I see a huge number of SUV’s that rarely if ever have more than one person in them, yes I know that a lot are owned by families more than a few are owned by solo people. Environmentally speaking this is a huge waste and brings about a near total waste. I also have see so many accidents caused by these blundering designs where additional mass and self perceived invincibility are root causes of a lot of pain.

My question is this, what about the Mini enthusiast with a family with four children. Should Mini develop a third row seating option for them. Should Mini create a $100,000 sports car because there are Mini enthusiast wanting one? Using the same justification they have for the R60 where does it end. There will always be Mini fanatics looking for something that isn’t offered. I just personally feel that a SUV doesn’t fit well into the Mini world.

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MINIme Jan 11th, 2008 Link

Jon,

I get your point. I respect your opinion. I really do. Hey, if they didn’t or don’t produce a vehicle like the one being proposed, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. I just think it would be cool to haul the family around MINI style.

If I can justify spending $100,000 on a single automobile, it sure as hell wouldn’t be for a MINI. I am sure, however, that out there among us is a MINI approaching the $100K investment (when you combine performance parts, fancy paint jobs and body kits and audio/video goodies). I almost guarantee it. Yea, there are fanatics in every “community”.

As much as I enjoy certain aspects of my MINI, it is not my favorite car (not even amng the cars & SUVs that I own).

SUV’s aren’t creating all the issues relating to the perceived notion of global warming. They also aren’t causing all the fatalities on our highways. True, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity has to be handled with additional care, but put a bottle of whiskey in a teenagers hand and let him go out and drive the family sedan and he’ll find a way to flip it. I wouldn’t wish that, or any other negative scenario, on anyone who commutes along our streets, roads, motorways, etc. My point is, there are many other factors that create an unsafe driving climate. To point the finger (hopefully not the middle one) in the direction of SUVs is a little narrow-minded.

Does an SAV/SUV fit into the MINI world? Maybe not. But the idea of it sure fits into my family plan. And in my world, that’s more central to my interest than the MINI community.

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Jon Jan 11th, 2008 Link

Well I just have to say one thing Minime

I have to say that its one of the best replies I have seen on a great number of R60 stories.

A good size portion of what has struck me so deeply with the R60 is the Mini community. The one thing that separates this community is the wholehearted openness to all Mini’s. I honestly believe that the R60 is going to create a us/them community that similar to the Porsche and BMW communities. While I believe the Mini brand is something unique the Mini community is largely responsible for the success of the brand. More Mini’s have been sold by Mini owners that all the dealers combined. The enthusiasm the community has for our brand is something I hold near to my heart. Just really pains me to see the Mini moving away from this.

I believe that Mini is aware of this, but considers the addition of a SUV to be worth the division on their community. I will never be a SUV fan, but you wont find me throwing my dislike onto anybody, just believe that this is a calculated misstep by Mini. Having said that please understand I already know that once Mini began this development they are locked into it. The R60 is coming.

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