JCW MINI to Get Standard Suspension

What all the bitchers and moaners are forgetting (except one) is that the exchange rate is hitting european car sales square in the nuts. Last I checked, it was $1.58 dollars to the Euro… So At that exchange rate, my $25k 02 MCS should have been just under $40k. Keeping options out of base cars means that they will be price competitive in the market, or at least a viable purchasing option. Not moving some Mini (Clubmass, Crossman) production to spartenburg now seems in hindsight to be one of the dumbest moves in the world. So what that Magna Sytar or whatever has experience. That doesn’t mean squat if a large chunk of your target market can’t afford the freakin car!

Jon, you get my respect for sticking to your guns, but you’ve got the market savvy of a brick. If the car has staying power, you’ll be like the (hypothetical) guy who gave up his place in line on the original Mustang Shelbys because they didn’t come “complete” from the factory…. Go ahead and root for a “niche” or “halo” car that will sell in incredibly small numbers without some serious subsidies from the factory. Heck, throw out the subsidies, and have them sell only a couple $45k factory JCW cars… You’ll get what you want, and the company won’t grow. Where will BMW money go then? But I forgot, if Mini tanks by not building what the market wants, you’ll get even MORE exclusivity! Sorry, I’m just a dumb-ass.

Matt

Heyya Matt, believe me that I hear where you are coming from. I have seen a number of 37k+ optioned cars leave both my local dealerships. I have see a few optioned 40k cars, and I know more than a few that have tacked on many thousands of dollars with performance upgrades. I honestly believe that a 38k+ performance Mini would sell well IF it were built to hold with other cars in its price range. I do believe BMW would never allow this because of the 135i.

My problem with this is just this, how successful would the M cars be if they were built with the same ethic? What is a Factory JCW, ordinary looks with slight performance increases with a soft suspension?? In many ways its a muddied as what is a JCW kit, is it a bare bone car or is it an option heavy car. The base issue is they are treating this car exactly like a kit.

Matt, I have to disagree with you on the currency issue. You compare it like you have to convert your US$ into Euro, go over there and buy the car. Of course that would be killer with the current exchange rate, no argument there. But lets not forget that they always need to include the market in this calculation. Before the Euro, the price for a car could gap as much as 40% or even more throughout western Europe. It worked essentially like the grey market works for Cameras. Manufacturers weren’t happy with you bypassing your local dealer and going to Portugal instead, so they declined the warranty etc.

What I wanted to say: the manufacturers are used to the currency issues and I think their process looks a little bit like this:

-I need to run my factory close to full load to stay efficient. - Having costs in Euro, I prefer selling for Euro. - How many units can I sell in Europe (for Euro)? - If I sell for US$, I will get less Euros because of the exchange rate. - I can live with getting less as long as I don’t pay more for production (+costs) than I get from sales. - If I could sell more cars for Euro than for US$ I would be stupid not to do it, in that case I will reduce the number of units I export to the US market and assign the units to Europe instead. - If I play with the idea to increase my prices in the US I’m running into the risk to lose sales to the competitors that are able to keep lower prices (domestic or foreign that produce in the US). - If I use my earnings from Europe and exchange them to US dollar (to pay my chinese manufacturers which are still being paid in US$) I’m making a nice cut that covers easily the numbers I lose with sales in the US.

So for them it is more like taking the good with the bad. And they love to do that anyway if you look at the last quarter numbers. BMW was only in the green because of MINIs + 26% or so… BMW alone was -1.8% I think.

I think I made my descision. As I’m gonna put a lot of extras into my next MINI anyway, I will go with a R56, get some extras (leather etc., nothing with engine/performance), get the Aero kit and live with less hp or go 3rd party/dealer kit. If MINI would have included the Aero kit for the base price I might have gone with the JCW, still put some extras in and take the more hp as a nice to have.

THe Factory car, in My opinion should have been:

Engine kit + Aero Kit + Plus JCW suspension + Seats.

Brakes could have been listed as an option for those who track the car alot.

Alan. You think Mini would alienate 75% of factory JCW buyers by forcing them into a stiffer suspension? I would venture to say they are alienating(not necessarily preventing)100% of the JCW buyers by offering a stock suspension. Is there ANYBODY out there who is considering a stage one or two JCW and not getting at least the $500 upgrade if not JCW/aftermarket???

Gabe, you contradict yourself regarding the steering feel/handling of R56/R53. Again, IMO the R56 JCW does not restore the “go cart” feel of stock (much less JCW) R53 suspension.

Kinda thought everone agreed on that.

I’m referring to your comments from over a year ago that stuck with me. I was dissapointed at the time as it wasn’t the news I was hoping to hear. I bought a ’07 Jcw anyway and while I agree it’s a great car it just didn’t quite give me the same visceral thrills the R53 does. Sorry, this rap is really overdone and I shouldn’t have gone here. Apologies to all. I can’t help still be curious about the factory JCW and I’m sure it will be very fast as the stage one is very fast. A used one might find it’s way into my garage someday.

the negative feedback from the performance drivers who have been the minis strongest supporters since 2002 launch is fully justified. And for those folks who own R53 factory JCW’s and so have a car with JCW suspension, JCW engine tuning, JCW brakes, aero kit, and JCW interior trim, etc. to set the car apart both dynamically and aesthetically, the R56 factory JCW falls rather short.

Bingo. When BMW acquired the JCW name, many of us were under the impression that an “M” type Cooper was the goal. That’s why the JCW is disappointing. It’s not that its a bad car, its just that its another MINI built for the masses, where many of us were hoping for something geared more toward the enthusiast. The JCW represents a compromise–what many of us were hoping/expecting was a no holds barred, uncompromised nod toward performance. That is why this won’t be my next car, but a GP like variant of the R56 may very well be–if it’s ever produced.

Alan Smithee, as stated by cct1 and Jon, there are enough reasons that they’ve lost me. And that may not matter if there are two more to replace me but that doesn’t negate the failure that is the new factory JCW car.

I don’t want the rims they are forcing me to buy … leave the crown spokes on … why am I forced to spend more money on rims that will make no difference to me on the road.

I want the ride height lowered … the car looks ridiculous with a wheel gap that is a joke … and if the price difference is non-existent if using the sport suspension, since it doesn’t cost BMW any more to make, then give the car sport suspension with a lowered look … another deficiency that I have to address by spending money to buy aftermarket springs when appropriate factory springs could have been engineered and built AT THE FACTORY, saving money by not having to buy two sets of springs and paying labour twice.

I do not want the upgraded brakes … I am not tracking the car … why am I forced to pay for brakes I don’t need? Leave the ‘S’ brakes on and I can spend my money elsewhere.

If you don’t get the fact that it’s a failure by any measure, you’re lost.

Impulsive, Well stated, I echo your post.

I still say that the cost issue is moot, and more to the point, they are passing huge gains on to the dealers.

the difference between a factory ‘standard’ suspension and a factory ‘sport’ suspension, in terms of cost at the factory, is zero. It is still four springs, four shocks/struts, and two swaybars. Even the $500 adder for the sport suspension is pure profit for MINI.

Even putting the JCW suspension on at the factory would only be a slight increase, due to the fact that YOU WOULDN’T HAVE TO PAY FOR THE STOCK PARTS. They could do this for under $1000, easily. But with this scenario, they get to sell us two suspensions, and the dealer gets to charge us several hundred dollars to install the JCW stuff, and we get to take some ornaments home for the garage.

I’d be at least slightly happier if the JCW suspension and aero were at least factory options. I absolutely refuse to pay a dealer to take brand new parts off of my car to put other brand new ‘factory’ parts on it.

but, overall, if this car is going to have the softest possible suspension standard, I really think the people running the JCW brand need to have their heads examined.

It does make me wonder just how successfully the M division would be if they produced similar products holding out until the end to the series to make a true M car. The M series has proven time and time again that if you make a high performance car even with the large bump in price and a huge amount of direct competition at the price point you will sell plenty of cars.

In a flash when I talk about a M car everybody pretty much knows I am speaking instantly about a high performance tuned Factory car. However with the JCW brand it stands for a moderate performance car that can be kitted together to make a high performance car. What I think may act as a direct example of the JCW brand is how BMW is handling the tii concept so far, optional products and maybe eventually a semi tuned car.

The new car may not be considered a dealer kit yet Mini is handling this car exactly as a kit car. The problem with this is I when it came to a R53 or R56 dealer JCW was the JCW brand was just another kit for the car like Alta or many other tuners. With them leaving this car so short they are still competing directly against the aftermarket vendors.

True. I’ve been trying to sell mine since October. No bites.

A really good idea at this point would be for MINI to create a new option package just for the JCW cars. Then they could put the JCW suspension and Areo kit in it at a discount on the parts. I would be very impressed if they did that. They should also let you change the wheels and take off the spoiler (if they add it) to lower the price of the car. I like those wheels but I would rather they send my car with some winter rims and tires and let me pick out my summer shoes.

Truly, I don’t want to sound like an ass here but the entire situation is laughable and the fact that ANYONE is arguing with logic, my logic, is just reinforcing why this failure was allowed to happen in the first place.

‘JFS’, CLEARLY understands the logic, as do several others, that what I have presented cannot be argued LOGICALLY without a foundation of maximum profit as the reason for half-assing this car.

‘Alan Smithee’, it is “out of the park” because of the money BMW makes, not because it’s the right thing to do … the swindlers who wrote the derivatives contracts underpinned by subprime loans, sold to banks all over the world who are now writing off billions and tens of billions, may look like champions who hit homeruns by making billions in the process BUT it was the wrong thing to do regardless of the profits involved.

Further, I want either a BASE JCW with 210hp with NO forced options OR an appropriate full-on, skirted, braked, rimmed, lowered monster … for BMW to choose for me what they want (half-ass) and force me to then add or substitute their choices is asinine.

‘Gabe’, go back and read agin the logic behind my post … your argument is looking like primary school grade material. This has nothing to do with BMW building and selling what I want specifically, although what I want will dictate whether I will buy or not … and this car is nowhere near what I want.

They half-assed this car by: 1. forcing me to buy rims I don’t want which I pay for upfront and then have to pay twice by buying new rims … stupidity; 2. forcing me to buy brakes I don’t want or need and preventing me from reallocating that money elsewhere … stupidity; 3. not lowering the car to imply, or make conspicuous, the fact that it’s a performance upgraded vehicle … not to mention absolutely necessary on a car that looks jacked up ready to go off-roading … stupidity; 4. leaving out an appropriate level of suspension to correlate with a faster car with bigger brakes, but adding rims … stupidity; 5. forcing me to pay for an illuminated shift knob … are you kidding me? … stupidity; 6. making any additions dealer installed options so I can get raped even further … I guess the factory can’t cope with such trivial issues … stupidity.

Again, either build a BASE version with an upgraded powertrain and nothing more OR build it as it should be. But seeing as how there are enough people posting here that can’t seem to grasp this rudimentary logic and are willing to spend money like they’re bank machines, why would I expect BMW to do anything different than make as much money as they can which ever way they can … fools and their money are soon parted … and I ain’t no fool. Maybe next time BMW.

This site is about passion. And while MINI/BMW may not be about passion, John Cooper Works was supposed to be. And this car, the first JCW Factory car, was absolutely supposed to be passion incarnate. I’m not drooling, ready to spend my kids lunch money on this thing. I’m fuming. I guess that’s a passion too. But, it is not one that is going to entice me to spend my money on MINI’s halo car. I may be wrong, but aren’t halo cars supposed to have the enthusiasts saying, “…I don’t care, I gotta have this car!!!”?

I wouldn’t advised anybody to not buy this car. I just feel that personally its a far cry from being much other than just another kit car from Mini and one that is lacking most of what I am looking for in a Mini. Of well.

Already have started the ball rolling for another car that comes closer to the build that I am looking for.

ok so im typing this on my helio and ran out of charexters so i just types another 1024charecter response and then accidently pressed back AAAAHHHH!!!!!!

so ill just say this everyone who wants to say something to MINI e-mail them and send letters (ill put the e-mail list when i get to a pc) its prob to late to handle the current car but just tell them that we dont apreciate the lack of value or their ability to adress either the base model needed for the enthusiasts or the customozations neccasary to satisfy us (would make alot more sense for my responce that was deleted)

MINI should add the JCW suspension and Aero kit from the factory and increase the price.