Comments on: BMW & PSA Making Engines Together (Again)

By: cct1

cct1 — Thu, 08 May 2008 21:39:28 +0000

Reading all this makes me wonder what the roof is for performance on the Prince. A twin scroll 4 popper in a performance version of the 135i would be VERY tempting–it’s what a number of folks have been begging for–it would hit a small (but vocal) niche of enthusiasts, provided its not underpowered. I took a hard look at the 135i, and while I think its a great car, I’m still sticking with my MINI for now–but if BMW does with the 135i what many of us are hoping for, I may just have to get one…

I have no proof, but my uneducated guess is BMW has something up their sleeves with regard to the Prince we haven’t seen yet.

By: C4

C4 — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:05:12 +0000

Gabe, I agree the Prince engine is an engineering marvel in both, paper and on the road, but MINI needs to address the issue of the cold start clatter in a satisfactory manner.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:45:58 +0000

Ah gotcha. BMW officially doesn't believe I4 engines will sell in NA so they don't import them.

That said I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2.0L twin turbo high output engine in a US bound BMW at some point relatively soon.

By: eager2own

eager2own — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:27:26 +0000

I also missed your comment above noting that this will not be coming to the US (from the press release I would’ve thought this was a brand-wide change).

By: eager2own

eager2own — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:23:16 +0000

Gabe, that would be fine — so long as it’s merely adding another option rather than taking away from other options (I wasn’t sure from the statement that “future generation will be fitted with these 4-cylinder engines” if that meant an end to the N54 I-6 option or just an additional option . . . and I posted a question about that on bimmerfile). Nothing against the 1.6l necessariy, but I’ve come to really like the idea of the N54 in the 1-series package and would have been disappointed if that were not to be available in the next gen. Thanks for clarifying.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:15:07 +0000

I have to say I’m at a loss in trying to understand that mentality. The 1.6l has won two consecutive engine of the year awards and is both efficient and powerful. Furthermore the addition of this engine in the 1 series range in Europe doesn’t mean BMW is taking away your chance to buy a 135i. They’re just giving some markets a new choice.

By: eager2own

eager2own — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:52:09 +0000

MINI has already convinced me that my next car needs to be the 135 . . . but if the Prince will follow me there instead of the 135 N54 I-6, BMW has convinced me that my next car will be something else altogether

By: C4

C4 — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:59:24 +0000

I heard a replacement turbo prince engine can run up to $10K.

By: hank chinaski

hank chinaski — Wed, 07 May 2008 14:45:52 +0000

There must be cost savings for bmw, as well as pump-wise.

wait: what's a Prince cost? could it go in a bmw 2oo2?

By: C4

C4 — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:38:58 +0000

Speaking of the devil, MINIUSA seems to still be pretty tight lipped about this problem. Whatever came out of the exposure of this issue when it came out here in MF a few months back?

By: TO

TO — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:32:44 +0000

BMW must have solved the cold start clatter to go mainstream with the Prince.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:29:37 +0000

I am not impressed by what I am reading. Why would BMW, with its outstanding engines in the 1 series want to change all that?

Impending CO2 legislation in Europe is requiring cleaner engines. BMW already uses a 1.8L pretrol engine but it only puts out 160bhp and isn't as efficient as the 1.6L JCW engine (which does around 210bhp with over 200ft lb of torque). This is a natural progression and I would think a welcome one for potential 1 Series owners who want performance without sacrificing economy. However it goes without saying that this version of the 1 Series will not be making it's way to the US or likely even Canada.

This is not to say that Peugeot does not make a good engine (they actually do), but why change something as good as the engines that come in the 1 series.

People are finding it harder to justify the expense of petrol in European countries gas and BMW can't afford to pay the fines that will be levied against it in the EU if there aren't more efficient engines available and ultimately sold in high numbers.

By: C4

C4 — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:29:06 +0000

I guess this is good news for us Prince engine owners. At least our little gems won’t be left orphan come 2012.

By: zoomer

zoomer — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:56:46 +0000

I am not impressed by what I am reading. Why would BMW, with its outstanding engines in the 1 series want to change all that? This is not to say that Peugeot does not make a good engine (they actually do), but why change something as good as the engines that come in the 1 series.

Does this mean that they will be producing an In-line or V6cyl motor together (BMW / PSA) or just the 4cyl which will be ported over from the MINI?

I was thinking of potentially going with a 1 series in years to come, but reading this, would I really want to?

By: rhawth99

rhawth99 — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:00:16 +0000

Maybe when the MINI turbocharged engine is in a BMW, they will finally find the cause of the cold engine noise and fix it.

By: iNomis

iNomis — Wed, 07 May 2008 11:41:18 +0000

Maybe the next generation 1 Series will offer a 300 HP 35 MPG M1, in 4 cylinder turbo form, to drop into our MINIs or steal parts from?

By: Vanwall

Vanwall — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:31:42 +0000

That headline would be creepy if they were making Coventry Climax.

By: Dr Obnxs

Dr Obnxs — Wed, 07 May 2008 02:55:53 +0000

More things change, the more they stay the same! There was an article in one of the motor mags (Motor Trend or Car and Driver) about how the new 35 MPG Cafe regulations would be downsizing engine offerings. Lots of plans have changed in the US already, and this sounds earily similar. FWIW, Porsche announced that it would put hybrid powertrains in the Ceyanne and the new, ugly 4 door 911 varient....

Small,, boosted engines will just continue to develope and with all the stuff you COULD put in a motor, we'll get better performance and efficiency with smaller packages. We've got dual scroll turbos, direct injection and variable valve timing in one engine, variable valve lift in another. And Porsche (and others) are using variable geometry turbs for broader power bands. If we rolled that all together, then there's be some serious power, with minimal or no lag, and very wide torque curves to be had for sure.

Matt

By: alpinamike

alpinamike — Wed, 07 May 2008 01:38:01 +0000

I like the hydrogen 7, I saw it in person and it looks great with two gas lids!