Fiat and its 500 to Return to the US

Sections: MINI Competitors Jun 10th, 2008 35 Comments

Interesting article in Business Week recently about Fiat, a brand that hasn’t been in the States for over 20 years, looking for a partner to help build Alfa’s and the Fiat 500.

Italian automaker Fiat (FIA.MI) is looking for partners to manufacture its Alfa Romeo brand and its 500 subcompact in North America. Although the company hasn’t finalized plans for its return to the U.S. market, an announcement could come later this year, Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne said Friday. “The U.S. market is very large, and we’re not looking to occupy a premier position,” Marchionne said. “But I think we do have a couple of brands and products that we can sell successfully there.”

Fiat it still quite a powerhouse in South America where they build 800,000 cars per year at a single plant. That keeps them with a 25% market share, so it would be very difficult for them to take cars from that plant and ship them to North America. They just don’t have the capacity.

When Fiat left the U.S. market 25 years ago, it had developed a reputation for fussy cars that needed frequent repair, a tough sell as companies such as Honda (HMC) and Toyota (TM) were establishing reputations for mostly worry-free cars. Fiat was pushed to achieve higher quality standards in Europe, especially after protectionist tariffs on imported cars were dropped and the Japanese could compete evenly there as well. Now, with profits and sales surging in Europe, as well as South America, Marchionne figures Fiat has unfinished business in America.

Most of remember how unreliable those old Fiats were. This is something that was addresses a while ago and reliability shouldn’t be a problem like it was in the past.

[ Fiat to Return to the U.S. ] Businessweek.com

Written By: DB

lavardera

I could point them at a couple of truck plants that are going idle…
heyduard

nice one lavardera! :)

Ford does have the Ka it can bring over. But will it have money to bring it up to US safety spec? Looks like Fiat has the money for the 500 and Alfa’s.
glangford

If they got quality up to standards, I could see myself driving a 500.
Crashton

I remember the Fiat’s that were sold here in the 60′s & 70′s. Unfortunately for Fiat I’m sure that many others do too. I like the new 500, but couldn’t bring myself to take a chance on one. Good luck to those folks that buy them.
MikeJCW

Sign me for a 500 Abarth edition with the turbo motor!
Nathaniel Salzman

I saw a classic Fiat 500 in the wild this weekend here in Minneapolis. Couldn’t believe it. Wondered how the heck he keeps it running.
TSizemore3

They must be going after the youth market because anyone alive in the 1970′s and 1980′s and into cars is going to remember their HORRIBLE issues with quality and reliability. They have a really bad reputation to overcome in this country.

Then again, British cars of that era had their issues and we all know how that turned out…
C4

Modern day Italian cars still lag behind German counterparts in the reliability dept. Having said that, a brand new Fiat is 1000% better car than one built 25 years ago.

I am, for one, very glad to see Fiat making a comback into the US market. I like to see more “Mainstream” non-luxury European alternatives in our shores. I hop Peugeot follows suit.

If the Fiat 500 demonstrates decent build quality and it is priced right, it could become a formidable competitor to MINI. Up until now, MINI has not had a true direct rival in this market (Smart doesn’t count and most other hot hatches sold here are competitive to the MINI but do not sport their own brand/dealer body).

Competition only forces manufacturers to offer better products at better prices. MINI has been very comfortable (And at times falling sleep at the wheel) in the North American market. Now that the 500 will be here, they will be forced to improve the MINI even further in every aspect of the equation.

Welcome back Fiat!
http://www.twistybitz.com/ RB

Ah yes Fix-It-Again-Tony! Words to live by for most Fiat owners back in the day.

I read, somewhere, that they [FIAT] were looking at Chrysler, might not be their best choice as Chrysler is sort of our FIAT.

800,000 cars in SA, in one plant, in one year! I wonder if there is any info on quality from any Auto blogs in SA or, any MINI brethren in SA out there with an opinion of FIAT quality?

I saw a new Fiat Cinquecento (500) on my recent visit to the IMM in Holland, in Hilversum, where I stayed. It’s a car I thought I would love but sad to say I was not that impressed. Maybe it was the white colour, not a fan.
Jon

I am very happy to see the Fiat brand come back to the states. Also won’t mind another example of a Frank Stephenson design running around.
Vanwall

At one point, some Alfas had Lucas electrics, instead of the local Magnetti Marelli bits, so they have made some curious decisions to “improve” their quality. That said, small Alfas had wonderful road manners, just about the most fun rear-axle cars to drive, even if a well-tuned Cooper ‘S’ kicked their ass on the track. They have moved up-market some, so I expect the reliability to have improved markedly. Fiats, on the other hand, have always been under-engineered compared to the competition, IMHO, and this has lead to problems in the past, especially with the generally longer distances driven in the States. Potential partners now have less money, less incentive to marry up, and this cannot be done on a boutique scale anymore – Carroll Shelby had it right: everyone knows what happens when you get into bed with a big car company. I’m sure things are better with their products now, but I don’t see this ending well.
Vanwall

One more thing – the Yugo was born out of a license-built Fiat, so supervision has been a problem as well. ‘Nuff said.
Hai

It’s even uglier than the R55/R56 but that’s just me. Unless they are priced extremely competitively, they will flop like they did 20 years ago.
I’mNotViley

There’s a fiat 500(one of the old ones) running around my area. I see it quite a bit. Seems to be the guys daily driver, so it can’t possibly be all that bad?

As for Peugeot… Well I have family in Europe, and the car I drive there is a 207. Fun car, horrendous reliability. And I’ve heard that while they have quite the following, mine is not a lone example of reliability issues.

Haven’t been in a new Fiat, but I do remember my grandfather’s Fiat 700 and 1300(I believe) from way back when.
Dr Obnxs

The fiat 500 was far from a flop. It was quite the success in fact. It had a production run from 1957 to 1975. How many other cars can one name that had a span of 18 years in production? And FWIW, the initial planned run of 2007 500s sold out to dealers in 3 weeks. far from a flop indeed.

Also, FIAT packaged quite a lot of fun for the money. My 1976 FIAT 124 spyder gave you Pinninfaria lines, 4 wheel disk brakes with aluminum calipers, a pan-hard bar and coil springs for the live axle out back (some came with IRS, but these were very few in number), a dual overhead (solid lifter) cam, and a centrally mounted battery in the trunk to help with weight distribution. A properly worked over 1.8l engine could sping to over 12,000 RPM on the track. Abarth had quite a time with all sorts of models of FIATs making good track cars as well as rally cars.

The 850 spyder has such a small cross section and good coefficient of drag that it’s still sought out by the home builder electric car hobbiests, as these features really help increase range.

We here in the US tend to forget about a) the past success of Alfa in many forms of racing and b) that there is a very large automotive market outside of the US. Alfas have always had spectacular road manners and handling making them more competetive than their HP nubmers would lead you to believe. I welcome both marks back to the US!

Matt
neuron

The original Fiat 500 were known for their reliability, unlike other Fiats of later models. A running old 500 is a common sight in Europe.

The current Fiat 500 is produced in Poland, which is producing better quality cars than Turin. The original planned 90,000 cars per year were soldout in 3 months.

Fiat is looking for “partner”(let me use your idled factory)for Fiat and Alfa.

How reliable was MINI when it was 1st introduced in 02?
Chuck

My 1969 Alfa Veloce coupe was one of the neatest looking cars I have ever owned. Outside of electrical and syncro problems I really enjoyed driving that car. Chuck
Dave

Reliability of 1970′s Fiats compared to their contemporaries was not bad, if they had good service. I owned two, a 128 sedan and an X1/9 sports car. Wonderful cars, and they NEVER left me stranded.
nuvolari

Forget the 500, I’ll take the Alfa MiTo.
nuvolari

Chuck – I had a 69 GT Veloce also. Giallo Oscuro with a hot cam and head. A miniature Ferrari. The “flying buttress” seats in the 69s were the coolest.
Vanwall

Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Veloce – was there ever a better name?
Dan S

Sorry Dave, FIAT reliability in the 1970s was a joke. I owned two Spyders, a 72 and a 78. Loved the first so much I bought the 2nd but my Italian mechanic Tony loved them even more. Don’t forget, FIAT is an acromnym meaning Fix It Again Tony. The 2nd left me stranded several times. The 1st just cost a lot to maintain. But when they were running well they were manna from heaven to drive! I also owned a 1958 MGA Coupe but that’s another story.

Bottom line, if FIAT can prove its reliability in this market like Mini and Hyundai I’d love to have one in my stable.
http://www.twistybitz.com/ RB

I never owned a Fiat but these tales of how wonderful they were back in the day seems totally out of sync with the people I knew that owned them back then, and I knew quite a few. Tales of faulty brakes, clutches, bad interiors, dealers not having parts, bad attitude from dealers and more were all I heard about in a import car club I was part of back in the 1970′s. Most dumped theirs within two years time. I owned a Volvo 544.

But it’s good to hear that you folks here loved your Fiats. Like my MCS, not the greatest car I’ve ever owned, but the fun of driving it and the camaraderie with other MINI owners makes up for it’s shortcomings. Like the Fiats of old I know of quite a few who have had very similar tales with their MINIs.
nuvolari

Alfa Fiat
C4

Not really fair to compare the build quality of a car made 30 years ago to one made today. There is no comparison.
mtbscott

My first new car was a 1975 Fiat X 1/9 purchased soon after I graduated from high school. It was remarkably reliable for me, even with the torture a young driver dished out to it. (I once drove it through water up to the windows! and crashed it three times in a couple of years.) My dream car of the era was a Lancia Scorpion, aka Fiat X 1/20. I too would welcome the marque back to the states.
E60owner/exR53

Gosh….I hope they aren’t equipped with run-flats…but a space saver spare, which if they have a SSspare tire, I am gonna sign up for one as soon as they are in our shores…yeah!
TK76911S

Reliability aside, as I have no knowledge, I think the exterior design misses the essence. I saw a classic in Montreal recently. Dark blue & red seats. Love at first sight. Personally, I think the modern 500 version doesn’t get it. Too rounded, particularly as regards the hood and the sloping windshield. It seems like a MC/Vdub Bug cross. Maybe they fell prey to the realtively new pedestrian safety standards for body design. Mini got the reincarnation right, IMHO. Not the same as the classic, but with enough vestigal charm and new twists of its own to make it attractive in its own right. Also, the 500 interior, particularly arrangement of the shifter, is odd and seems very feminine (pardon) to me. Just my $0.02.
Dr Obnxs

Well, same guy who did the new Mini did the new 500. Maybe they learned that the near verticle windshield didn’t work to well with rocks at freeway speed. And remember, the new Mini is, to many, just a cute chick car! ;)

It’s cool that some don’t like it. But it’s still good to see small cars that are more than just a tin can. The trend of fun small cars is good for all, even if the styling of some of them aren’t to one particular persons taste…

Matt
Hank

5 star rating NCAP crash test…. nifty!

@Dan S for every brand there is a acromnym. Ford: Fix Or Repair Daily Chevrolet: Car Has Extensive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips Buick: Big Ugly Import Car Killer
gokartride

I like the new 500 alot…just wondering what kind of dealer network could be developed/utilized when/if bringing it to the States. BMW has a strong presence here and to MINI had that going for it from the start. Regardless of past Fiat reliability issues, folks today will not settle for what they might have in times past. High levels of reliability and good all around post-sales service would be expected if it is to succeed.
Dr Obnxs

How does Mini benefit from the BMW network? Can’t buy a Mini at a BMW dealer… Can’t get it serviced there either!

Matt
Danf

I have been following the new 500 since it came out. I would love to see this car sold in the US. Competition is always a good thing. This car is aimed right at the Mini. I remember the Fiats of the 70s and the rep is not good but Fiat has turned itself around. It is one the most profitable car company’s in Europe now. You don’t achieve that by making bad product.
neuron

May be combined Ferrari/ Maserati/ Alfa/ Fiat dealer and service center?

Fiat group seems to be enjoying a renaissance under its current CEO Sergio Mechionne.
ulrich

How does Mini benefit from the BMW network? Canâ€™t buy a Mini at a BMW dealerâ€¦ Canâ€™t get it serviced there either!

Mini dealers are BMW/Mini combo dealers with a separate showroom building.

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