Comments on: Why the JCW Factory MINI will not get LSD.

By: cooper s r56 vs jcw 09 (211bhp) - engine strength when tuning. - Page 5 - Mini Torque

Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:50:13 +0000

[...] one being discontinued The mechanical LSD was never offered on the R56 factory JCW. See here: MotoringFile Archive Why the JCW Factory MINI will not get LSD. Shame they have discountinued it, probably as you say down to [...]

By: Do I wait so I can get DTC? - MINI2 - MINI Forum

Do I wait so I can get DTC? - MINI2 - MINI Forum — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:05:45 +0000

[...] MotoringFile Archive Why the JCW Factory MINI will not get LSD. "The reason for the EDLC over the LSD is due to the fact that with a mechanical LSD, the high amount of torque in the JCW MINI causes the LSD to engage too quickly causing what’s been referred to as “anti-torque steer”. Torque steer is something that usually causes the steering to pull to one side under hard acceleration. What they found with LSD on the JCW MINI was that it caused the car to want to pull the steering back to center and go straight under hard acceleration – not a desirable, or safe, effect in a lot of situations. This is a simplistic, easy to understand explanation and I’m sure a dissertation could be written on the technical aspects of force and intertia involved but hopefully this will help answer the question as to why no LSD. In the end, both options were tested and the EDLC gave the JCW the best handling. " Don’t read the comments after the artical though as most are garbage and based on totally wrong assumptions – numpty’s! —————————————————————————————–http://RichardAshworth.imagekind.com/ Photography [...]

By: Alberto

Alberto — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:28:24 +0000

I waited by the MC JCW before deciding to buy the MCS. As a matter of price, I eventually decided by the MCS. I want to buy the MCS with the mechanical differential (LSD) optional, with ESP (DSC) – despite having traction control (ASC + T) of origin – and sport suspension, but with the OEM (16″) rims (195/55 R16 tyres) – because of the comfort and to prevent the steering torque in excess. But now I’m confused about the best handling that I can get with the optional mechanical differential (LSD). My thought was that the EDLC is more an upgrade of traction control than a real difference, because: 1Âº It provides no more torque to the wheels that need it most, only lock the wheel whose torque is excessive. 2Âº Switched on only when the DSC is switched off. Therefore, I have concluded that I can have more fun for less money with the MCS with LSD than with MC JCW (with the same security with the choice of optional DSC – but unfortunately without the DTC program). I am wrong?

Best regards from Portugal!

By: Dr Obnxs

Dr Obnxs — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:45:32 +0000

Some comments.....

We will see more of these systems over time, not less. All the parts are already on the car, just waiting for good enough software package to control them. The ABS/DSC system had all the pumps and the like for automatic torque distribution systems. Just throw some dev costs into making it work and bingo! More code, but no more parts.

As far as going straight with a limited slip, it does happen if you overpower the turn exit. Same thing happens to me with a Quaiffe on my R53.

I'm thinkin that this will play out just like the ATC/DSC stuff. The concepts are fine, but it will remain to be seen if the software nails the functional demands of enthusiasts.

Time will tell....

Matt

By: Jack07734

Jack07734 — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:10:46 +0000

This whole thing makes me wonder if, like the on board computer everyone will have it and with the correct payment it can be turned on with a mouse click.

Happy Motoring, Jack

By: Revhed

Revhed — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:11:12 +0000

Hmmm - the proof will be in the driving.

I find it a little odd though that while my car (Stage 1 JCW kit R56 S) drives fine with a mechanical diff, a car with less than 4% more torque than mine requires an ELSD.

By the way, there are a number if other FWD cars with significantly more torque than the MINI and a mechanical LSD that do just fine - The Renault Megane R26 for example.

By: Ian C.

Ian C. — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:15:49 +0000

If the ELSD works well, the only downside is brake wear – we won’t know about that till the car’s been out for a year or more …

By: VMMVMMM

VMMVMMM — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:05:51 +0000

@ SteveS re: Mazdaspeed 3

What Mazda does do, though, is reduce power to the engine on release in 1st and 2nd gear in order to counter this. MINI employing the ELSD eliminates the need to reduce engine power to counter torque steer issues.

By: Todd

Todd — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:05:02 +0000

Look for the video with a follow up later this week.

By: Mozza

Mozza — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:44:06 +0000

Very interesting insight into MINI’s reasoning on not making a mechanical LSD available for the JCW. Eagerly awaiting the video that was promised, any idea when we can expect it lads?

By: rbm4

rbm4 — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:47:23 +0000

Maybe the ELSD is a dumbed down version of the ELSD found on F1 cars? If so there must be some way to eventually tweak in the future…with your bluetooth enabled PDA/phone..:)

By: David

David — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:43:37 +0000

I’m all for weight savings – lighter wheels, no sunroof, the redesigned rear suspension using aluminum, etc. – these are all good things. Anyone know the weight of a mechanical LSD? Can’t imagine it can be all that much, and the performance gain from the potential added traction should outweigh (pun intended?) having a few extra pounds over the front axle.

By: iNomis

iNomis — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:10:10 +0000

Sounds like they made the best with what they had to work with. They used an easy for them electronic solution to the more difficult solution of re-engineering the suspension and steering geometries to get rid of the torque steer, something that may not be practical at any cost with the current platform. Hopefully they can design the next generation to be a bit better in that area but with electronics getting better and space more valuable I imagine it could be a difficult choice.

By: Philip

Philip — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:28:52 +0000

Are there different engagement modes of the ELSD, like track mode, street mode, slippery roads mode?

By: pbraun

pbraun — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:10:37 +0000

Be it for safety or for performance reasons – it seems to work pretty well – personally, I can’t wait to give it a try!

By: Todd

Todd — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:05:24 +0000

So the way I read this, they decided against LSD for safety not performance.

I am sure that safety was a consideration but I believe handling is the main reason why this decision was made. One has to remember that MINIs are street cars and not built to be dedicated track cars save the Challenge car. They are designed to be driven daily on public streets by many different type of drivers. A balance of safety and handling has to be a consideration in any production vehicle. You are fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

By: nuvolari

nuvolari — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:47:42 +0000

So the way I read this, they decided against LSD for safety not performance. I think most people "rumbling" about the lack of LSD have been coming from the performance perspective. So the rumbling will continue.

"What they found with LSD on the JCW MINI was that it caused the car to want to pull the steering back to center and go straight under hard acceleration - not a desirable, or safe, effect in a lot of situations."

Wow, amazing finding! Seriously, substituting "a FWD car" for "the JCW MINI" above would be just as accurate. Even in a RWD car, LSD is an anti-safety feature and requires more driver skill to control under acceleration when cornering, but driven well, you WILL come out of the corner faster.

By: Todd

Todd — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:26:05 +0000

Cost was not a factor at all. If cost was a factor it would have been offered as an option like it is on other R56s. The LSD is only a $500 option on the R56 so the idea that MINI “cheaped out” on the JCW is not a conclusion I think anyone can jump to.

By: Steve S

Steve S — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:19:26 +0000

Odd then that Mazda fits a mechanical LSD to its MS3 which has a great deal more torque and yet doesnâ€™t get much torque steer. Sounds like MINI cheaped out when a product that costs 6 grand less can offer it.

By: Jon

Jon — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:13:45 +0000

From what you had to say about the car on the auto x course I was interested to hear your feedback. I will almost always choose mechanical systems but have to say the weight Mini saves by not adding it is a bonus. Will be interesting to get some seat time on the track and see how it behaves.