R56 Cold Start Official Fix Coming

korby Jul 7th, 2008 Link

I’l believe it when I see it ! But Thanks

rhawth99 Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Sounds like BMW screwed up the logic of when the oil pump should be running. Guess they didn’t consider that an engine needs lubrication while starting and when it is coming up to temperature. :(

MCS Engine noise when cold - Page 55 - MINI2 - MINI Forum Jul 7th, 2008 Link

[...] MotoringFile � Archive � R56 Cold Start Official Fix Coming [...]

LynnC Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Let’s not forget the R56 MC as well. Mine has the cold start noise, but evidently not as extreme as the MCS variants. Mine sounds exactly like too much valve clearance and/or a collapsed lifter. My amateur diagnosis was insufficient oiling so it is good to see some validation from MINI. My dealer could not replicate the noise, of course. It sounds exactly like someone tapping a screwdriver on the underside of the hood. Anyone with an older engine that needed the valves adjusted knows the noise. The noise goes away quickly and then life is good until the next cold start. It is definitely not injector noise. And only occurs at temperatures of 40 F or less.

Dylan Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Thank you for the update. When starting from cold, this now happens to me more often than not (15,000ks on the clock). Hopefully no long-term damage has been done.

C4 Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Hard to believe this is strictly a software originated problem. Hope they are not approaching this with a “band aid” fix.

nuvolari Jul 7th, 2008 Link

If this is indeed a software issue, a simple software update could solve the problem as it did with the engine stumble and/or yo-yo experienced by many 2002-2003 MINI owners.

The stumble and yo-yo issues were resolved by a software update? I think a lot of 02-03 owners (who had their ECUs reflashed multiple times trying to resolve these problems to no avail) would be surprised to hear that.

mike Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Does anyone know if this has happened on the MCS with JCW stage 1 kit? I’m almost at 6700 miles and haven’t had any issue… yet.

Lee L Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Hopefully they do a better job with this that the “yo-yo” since they never actually did fix that.

Boro Boy Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Does anyone know if this has happened on the MCS with JCW stage 1 kit? I’m almost at 6700 miles and haven’t had any issue… yet.

Yep, the issue is not affected by the fitment of the JCW kit. That is, if you had the clatter before, you’ll have it after as it were. Was/is the case with mine anyhow.

mike Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Thanks Boro. What about those who have had their kit fitted from the start? Anyone?

Gabe Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Does anyone know if this has happened on the MCS with JCW stage 1 kit? I’m almost at 6700 miles and haven’t had any issue… yet.

No problems here at 7700 miles.

Dubaian Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Thanks for the info..

i had the same problem with my R56 and it was solved by the dealer

http://northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146248

Brian Jul 7th, 2008 Link

I still have my 03 MCS and my yo-yo issue was fixed with a software update.

I’m sure they will eventually fix it for the R56 owners.

Ken E. Jul 7th, 2008 Link

If this is indeed a software issue, a simple software update could solve the problem as it did with the engine stumble and/or yo-yo experienced by many 2002-2003 MINI owners.

That software fix did nothing to fix the yo-yo.

But, it did give me the problem when the dealer flashed it without asking first. I never knew what other owners where talking about until the dealer gave my car the yo-yo that it didn’t have before.
I have an “08″ but I hope I don’t have this issue.

lavardera Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Before it was surmised that it had to do with the design of vale train components - the parking angle allowed oil to drain out which otherwise sustained lubrication till the running engine replenished it. This was the discussion at Michigan Mini club’s messageboards:

http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.0

Since we have a computer controlled oil pump rather than a mechanical I suppose they could software patch it to provide oil earlier, upon the start-up. I guess we will find out.

msh441 Jul 7th, 2008 Link

My first engine… replaced due to this very issue… had the jCW Stage 1 kit installed. So I woould second the opinion that the kit makes no difference.

That said… I’m 4500 miles into engine #2 (JCW kit, too) with no sign of the rattle this time around. So this is definatly a hit or miss issue. I pray it stays a “miss” for me this time around.

Fred Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Thanks for the updated information.

GregW Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Funny this noise subject should come up. I notice that the R56 I am driving does sound like a rattley old diesel and I even checked the oil level. This is at 5000 miles. I just thought it must be the way it should be with the valvetronic set up. Now I am worried.

Dr Obnxs Jul 7th, 2008 Link

I”m skeptical…. The guy on the Michagan Mini site did a very, very thoroug analysis of what makes the noise and why it’s not just an oil pressure issue. Oh well, a software update that keeps in from happening is much cheaper for Mini than replacing a bunch of rocker/lifter assembies. But really, if it’s software control of the oil pump, then I really have to laugh. This is when the pump should be pushing as much as it can!

Let’s just hope that this is more sucessful than changing the tensioner, the first official fix!

Matt

lavardera Jul 7th, 2008 Link

GregW - don’t confuse the fuel injection sound with this. This sound happens at start up and goes away as the car warms up, sometimes in seconds, sometimes minutes.

Ryephile Jul 7th, 2008 Link

Can somebody please show me on RealOEM where this mystical electronically controlled oil pump is? The only one I see is driven off the crankshaft with a chain, and it’s explicitly called “oil pump”.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=MF73&mospid=50031&btnr=11_3928&hg=11&fg=30

mlg2ca Jul 7th, 2008 Link

I think we all need to thank MF for bringing this issue at the forefront. I am sure that it was instrumental for BMW to here our collective voices.
Having said that, I have over 28K kms on the odo with only one occurence (after the car went to dealer for oil change). The fact that this might be just a software fix supports my theory that the engine may be behaving like a diesel. Let’s not forget, direct injection spark engines are a relatively new concept.

J Ryan Jul 7th, 2008 Link

That’s the reason I am holding off on trading in my current MINI. I will have to wait to hear some real proof.

This is what I found on the oil pump through Google:

“Yet a further innovation in the MINI segment is the introduction of a volume flow-controlled oil pump on the engines. Driven by a chain, the pump delivers only as much oil at any time as is actually required by the engine, thus reducing the drive power required by the ancillary units by approximately 160 Watt, saving approximately 1.25 kW at 6,000 rpm, and reducing fuel consumption by roughly 1 per cent.”

So if it is a lubrication issue, it would depend on whether this flow-control is managed through ECU software or done hydralically/mechanically. In any case, I would at least wait for a 2009 before moving to the new MINI.

theworks Jul 7th, 2008 Link

I have a new 09 JCW to arrive any day now. I hope the fix was done before they finalized the development of the engine. Or will the 09 jcw be the same ???? I will keep you posted

GregW Jul 8th, 2008 Link

My Technical guy says that there are two issues on the MINI PuMA system - the Vacuum pump noise (when you remove the oil cap) and the chain noise thing. Then theres another issue when the engine squawks. Apparently the BMW PuMA system has a video with sound of these examples.

Victor Jul 8th, 2008 Link

The oil pump is able to vary it’s flow rate and load on the engine, it is a gear pump and driven by the motor.

From the BMW engine release.

“Controlled volume flow for even greater fuel economy.
On-demand oil supply delivers exactly the amount of engine oil required,
no more and more and no less. Accordingly, the oil pump controlled as a
function of volume flow reduces fuel consumption by up to 1 per cent.
Together with the oil/water heat exchanger, the on-demand water pump serves
to further reduce fuel consumption and emissions. This again saves drive
power and warms up the engine more quickly, coolant only being circulated
when the engine has reached its operating temperature.”

mike c. Jul 8th, 2008 Link

I’ve got 16800+ miles on my 2007 MCS and have only seen the issue once; after my car was sitting in my garage for about a week. There were about 12000 miles on it at the time. Usually I park on a sloped driveway but the garage is level, maybe related? The sounds that engine was making on startup caused even my wife and daughter in the dining room to sit up and take notice. Anyway, the engine calmed down after only about 5-10 seconds and it hasn’t happened again. I’ve had the oil changed since then and the dealer didn’t notice any issues but was aware of the cold start problem in the newer engines.

Aussom Jul 12th, 2008 Link

Agree with others in this thread - Considering how much the MINIs cost in Australia, I’m still holding onto my trusty, reliable, dependable (i.e., proven) R50 2002 MCS until this issue is well and truly fixed. If the upcoming R60 offers a different engine that has proven reliability at the right price, then I may be tempted to change over.

Keep up the good work & hoping to see a complete and proven solution soon.

Woofcast #257 | whiteroofradio.com - The MINI Cooper Podcast Jul 13th, 2008 Link

[...] we do get right into the news of the week at . We spend quite a bit of the time talking about the cold start issue, and, of course, the latest MTTS [...]

Mark Jul 27th, 2008 Link

Hi everyone,

As a UK MINI owner suffering the same problems as you guys I thought I would add my thoughts and experiences.
My March 07 Cooper S has been back 5 times now to the dealers, they have changed the timing chain tensioner and the timing chain, they now tell me that a permenant fix is coming in December 08 in the UK in the form of a 100% spring tension timing chain tensioner rather than the current oil pressure tensioner. This would make sense, however, no-one knows if it’s the definitive cure until they arrive!

MCS Engine noise when cold - Page 56 - MINI2 - MINI Forum Jul 30th, 2008 Link

[...] comment left by someone over on Motoring File … MotoringFile � Archive � R56 Cold Start Official Fix Coming Perhaps a mechanical component associated with the reported ECU-based [...]

Bryan Henry Aug 15th, 2008 Link

Are there ANY SOLUTIONS???? The belt tensioner is by far the worst design that has ever been put on a car. My belt failed and the tensioner jammed into the harmonic balancer with such force it killed the bearings on my 2003 cooper s. I talked to a few of my fellow mini maniacs and heard their horror stories as well . One of them actually got the dealer to foot the bill after the warranty was over , go figure . I tried and was DENIED>>
Something should be done about this , If my belt fails again and it costs me another $1200.00 to fix I`ll go postal.

Malcolm Pace Sep 15th, 2008 Link

Hi has there been any updates regarding this subject?

Coz after a hot summer here in Malta… today the temperatures got a bit cooler and the noise is back :(

any help please

cheers
Malcolm

spiff Sep 16th, 2008 Link

Not any help that I know of, nor official info. I’m waiting for a Peugeot 207 RC now (Same R56 engine) for over 3 months and it will take 2 more.. and still, no official info that I know of.

Getting tired of both the delay (Peugeot sucks) and the lack of official info regarding this. Perhaps it is time to look at other possibilities and other brands/engines… the EP6 DTS is not only noisy when cold but apparently slow getting here from France…

Dylan Sep 21st, 2008 Link

My dealer failed to fix the problem (no surprises there) and have negotiated with BMW to have the entire engine replaced. My advice to anyone with a similar problem is to read up on consumer law in your country and leverage it to your advantage. Bottom line is the affected engines aren’t working as intended and should either be fixed or replaced. Waiting shouldn’t be an option.

Dave K Sep 29th, 2008 Link

My ‘08 MCS did this for the first time for more than 1 min, Eng has just turned 10K mi’s, happened very briefly in the past only lasting for seconds.
Had to shut it down as it was more than I could stand, took a few restarts for it to stop. I was lucky I was not on my way to work, it was on a Sunday and 75 deg F.
I have re-built many engines over the years, BMW, Jaguar and Porsche. This is a valve Tappet issue, lack of oil and the tappets are not pumping up, so the valves & tappets are slapping and that is not a good thing.
We need a fix now or at the very least 100k Mi. warranty coverage for those of us with the issue, BMW needs to put their money where there their mouth is. As my long term confidence in this other wise superb little car is nil.

Dave K

Spiff Oct 4th, 2008 Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYD7RfsompQ

Sax Oct 22nd, 2008 Link

Any news on this one? Have they managed to solve the problem? I have the same problem but my car has 35.000 km on the clock. It happened two or three times in the morning.

Dylan Oct 28th, 2008 Link

Update: my engine has been replaced, and with just 900ks on the new engine the noise is back loud as ever. Not happy!

barice Oct 31st, 2008 Link

Well, when is this “cold start” fix coming? It seems my ‘07 MCS (11Kmiles) has started to do the “noise” again now the temperature is dropping. This morning I had to restart the engine three times!! (~35F here, in Boston). Although annoying, it did the trick and the noise disappeared. It seems restarting the engine solves the problem… until the next day. My wife and I are getting sick of this noise and we are currently thinking in getting rid of this car (
It has been almost 4 months since it was reported that MINI was looking into this issue. Any word on it? I have little hope our official dealers have any information about what is going on internally.
What amazes me is that MINI quickly released sort of a recall due to the complaints of three people (as far as I know) who reported getting burned by the MCS’ tail pipes. This issue, on the other hand, has been reported by hundreds (thousands?) of MCS owners and nothing has materialized yet…. NOT HAPPY EITHER!!!

Glenn Nov 3rd, 2008 Link

Does block heater help with this issue?

TK76911S Nov 11th, 2008 Link

I now have the dreaded CS death rattle. ‘08 MCS - del. 2/08. 12,000 miles. Without prompting, my 16-year old, soon-to-be-driving son asked me: “What’s that noise?”

I can tell you it dashed any desires I had re: a 2d MINI, the JCW factory, cabrio, Stage 1 JCW, JCW suspension, MINI bits, etc.

What gives at BMW? With winter rolling around again, doesn’t BMW realize the issue will be back again? And this time with a vengeance in the same engine that is also in its coveted Clubman? Wait till it hits the engines of those who just sunk $40k in new factory JCWs.

The noise is a downright embarassment when I start the car. Like the old days of having a dragging muffler. BMW should be horrified to have that clatter on their niche brand.

If this persists, I’ll sadly forego any MINI/BMW product and simply trade for a less-troublesome vehicle and brand. I otherwise love the little car, as does my wife (who, until now, was talking about getting one for herself).

Do the math BMW: the rule of thumb is that for every single disgruntled customer, twelve future customers are lost. How many here and on NAM have already posted re: their unanswered complaints?

Gabe and MF Crew, any updates from BMW/MINI?

r.burns Nov 18th, 2008 Link

There is absolutely not a single proof that this noise is damaging the motor, so why worry ? It happens only when there is no pressure on the accelerator pedal, so this “problem” is quite ridiculous !!

boroboy Nov 20th, 2008 Link

r.burns - it sounds like you may be referring to something quite different. I can assure you, the issue as described in detail in the article is definitely a problem with the R56 MCS. I think TK76911S has expressed what ought to be a sobering view for BMW MINI, especially in the current financial climate.