R56 Makes another Top 10 List

JonPD Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Good news for sure, still think though there is yet another message for Mini here. The other hot hatch the Mazda3 still gathers higher reviews in almost every case. Would really like to see BMW try to work a class leading Mini. Of course the Mazda cars are cheaper build but think I am not the only fanatic though that has had a Mazda3 speed spank my car. Interior design on the Mazda uses cheaper materials and yet so many reviews never mention this just because how good the layout design is.

I personally never would buy a Mazda but think there are some lessons there BMW/Mini should wake up to. Since they are selling at the top of the hot hatch price point there are really few reasons why a much cheaper car should continue to spank the Mini brand in my view.

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lavardera Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Comparing the Mazdaspeed 3 to the Cooper S is like comparing the JCW Cooper to the Mazda 3 touring.

Look, both cars come in 3 models with 3 different levels of power. The mid level is the Mazda 3 Touring and the Cooper S. I own both and the Cooper S outperforms and outclasses the Mazda 3 Touring in every way except interior room, but for crying out loud you are comparing a B class and a C class car.

Why would they compare the speed to the S? What message is Mini supposed to take from that?

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Bob D. Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

I think the real story here is how badly it does (in eighth place) compared to the Mazdaspeed 3 (in first place).

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Dr Obnxs Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Remember how this pole was made. It’s a conglomeration of member submissions and editorial input. The Mazda3 scored well cause it’s competent, and there are a lot of them. This poll was OK, but reminds me of most polls that are created with public input: they are biased by what’s hot now, and what is out in large numbers. As such they are more of a slice of todays opinion weighted by frequency with little objectivity.

So take it for what it’s worth, and that’s not much. Funny how many flames there are in the comments about the unaproachability of the cars, when only two are hard to get.

anyway, it’s nice Mini made the list, considering how few are actually sold.

Matt

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JonPD Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Good points Matt,

lavardera spec out a Mazda2Speed against a similarly spec Mini Cooper S and you will find some things of interests.

Mazda3Speed 23,310 Mini Cooper S 23,100 JCW Mini Cooper 29,200

Mazda3Speed 263hp at 5500rpm and 280lb-ft of torque Mini Cooper S 172hp at and 177lb-ft of torque JCW Mini Cooper 208HP at 6000rpm and 192lb-ft of torque

Mini wins hands down on fuel economy which is a major point. In many ways the Mini is a better car, still as the top of the line JCW is still dwarfed by the performance of the Mazda really think there is room to improve the brand here. My point here isn’t about how much better or worse one car is in comparison over another. Its only that there are more than a few hot hatch contenders out there, Mini has chosen a good path his decent performance with good mileage. I just think that due to the huge amount of after market-tuning going on with the brand that they should realize that a pretty good portion of their community is looking for a better performance related car than what they currently offer.

Top this all of with the news that Mazda is going to be offering 4wd for the 2-liter cars next year means we will likely see a AWD Mazda3Speed. We on the other-hand are getting a crossover ;)

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lavardera Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Minis cost more across the board. And yes the JCW has less HP than the 3speed, but the S has more than the 3Touring. The Mini also weighs a lot less, and the weight/power ratio for the jcw and speed is pretty close.

Not much you can do about the dollars but I don’t think that makes a comparison between mazdas highest performance model and minis mid performance model any more relevant.

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JonPD Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

Hmm last time I checked the JCW is Mini’s highest performance model.

The Mazda also seats 5, something the Clubman can’t do. Heck you can get the grandsport edition of the speed3 which comes with very nice seats and a selection of other small upgrades and still come in under the JCW Mini. I can also guarantee you that a speed3 will outrun anything Mini makes.

Mazda3Speed 23,310 – $210 more than a S, highest output model Mini Cooper S 23,100 – down almost a 100 hp JCW Mini Cooper 29,200 – down ~55 hp and $5,890 more

With nearly 6 grand you can make a speed3 that handles light years ahead of the JCW Mini. All this said just comes down to the face that Mini has largely stood still as a static target for more than a few.

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Dr Obnxs Aug 22nd, 2008 Link

I drove the Mazdaspeed3 on the track and Laguna Seca and was underwhelmed. But then, I was underwelmed with the MCS there too!

And this isn’t a direct comparison, it’s a bunch of people who put 10 cars on a list! None of the cars were compared directly!!!!!!!

JonPDs point about money being the great equalizer is on the mark though…

Really, any 10 best list that puts the Mazda3 on top has got to be suspect. I wouldn’t loose any sleep over this one.

Matt

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lavardera Aug 23rd, 2008 Link

I don’t think money is the great equalizer at all. I don’t think the 3speed will be steeling many 1 series customers.

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JonPD Aug 23rd, 2008 Link

Heh apples to oranges there lavardera, lets rewind a bit.

Just saying its very cool Mini made the list, that I think however they really better get off resting on their laurels as the market is working hard on the fixed target that Mini is. There are more iconic cars out there, there are hotter hatches, there are competitors in every direction nibbling at the base that Mini relies on for profitability. Mini isn’t hurting today, but day by day perspective Mini owners are choosing other cars, and over the long haul I think the case for a Mini will be rather muddled.

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greg Aug 23rd, 2008 Link

I am not a Mazda fan at all. I drove new one once and hated everything about it. I wouldn’t buy one at any price. That being said, since the price is being compared I might guess that one advantage is the Mazda will likely sell cars under MSRP whereas Minis are often sold at a premium. If one actually likes this car then it is a better value. There is a cost to actually have a fun/cool car though and I’ll pay it everytime with a Mini.

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Dr Obnxs Aug 25th, 2008 Link

What I meant by “money being the great equalizer” is that very different product gets cross shopped because they cost the same. I haven’t seen a 1 series that’s at the price point of a Mazda 3.

But price parity is why you get some very odd comparos. Same money can buy very different cars, so you get odd bedmates when you ask questions like “what does $25k get you in a car?”

Matt

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lavardera Aug 25th, 2008 Link

How long a haul will that be when the case gets muddled? They are selling everything they can build now, and a tiny percentage of those people could give a hoot if the MazdaSpeed was faster or not.Even if they lost every one of those sales to Mazda there’s somebody right behind them to buy a Mini. You are kidding yourself if you think these performance issues will hurt sales and put Mini against the ropes.

As far as cost equity, I don’t think much of that cross shopping goes on as you describe it. Perhaps again for somebody who wants a hot hatch and is looking to see how much performance they can buy with their 25k. But again, tiny slice of the market. People are choosing Minis for other reasons.

Many times in these comments somebody poses dire concerns for Mini to ponder, because it may shake future sales. Most of the time its just someone trying to trump up personal concerns or opinions and there is no substance to it.

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JonPD Aug 25th, 2008 Link

Like yours, self-righteousness is a dangerous tool ;)

Still the base fact is Mini isn’t the best little performance car out there. I believe they have walked a path of uniqueness, performance, and luxury that was a solid and new idea in the market of small cars. Mini has lived in this place for years, the issue I see is that many manufacturers have joined them on this path. I feel that Mini really needs to make a bold statement of what it stands for before they lose a portion of their market. As a point to this, part of the sales point has been the iconic nature of Mini. On a recent trip from Portland to Seattle I saw more smart cars on the road trip than Minis. If what is a un-enthralling car like the Smart can take a bite out of the Mini sales it does show that Mini should be burning the midnight oil to make sure they don’t become irrelevant.

My European friends tell me that the Fiat 500 is also making a dent in their Mini community with Mini owners buying a Fiat as a second car over anther Mini. I am not saying that Mini is in trouble, just feel the recent choice they have been making are not the highlight of the brand. IMO

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RogerC Aug 30th, 2008 Link

Smart people in europe are not getting the Cooper S. They’re getting the Peugeot 207 RC with the same engine, costing less and with a few nice extra touches.

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