Comments on: The Fiat 500 In the States http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/ MotoringFile | MINI news, reviews and opinion. MINI Cooper, Cooper S, Clubman, Countryman Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: GregW http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-236102 GregW Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:06:33 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-236102 <p>I just read that the Abarth is only being made in LH drive and no plans for RH drive for GB and Japan markets yet.</p> I just read that the Abarth is only being made in LH drive and no plans for RH drive for GB and Japan markets yet.

]]> By: Dylan http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-236040 Dylan Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:36:31 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-236040 <p>Thanks Greg! :D</p> Thanks Greg! :D

]]> By: GregW http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235766 GregW Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:20:05 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235766 <p>Dylan - haven't heard about the Abarth coming yet, so keep looking at Autocar mag. The 500 is priced at a premium, and I would bet it will be also priced above Japanese cars in USA. So its not a "cheap" car any more. check out videos; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8EwxrT4Nj0&feature=related</p> Dylan – haven’t heard about the Abarth coming yet, so keep looking at Autocar mag. The 500 is priced at a premium, and I would bet it will be also priced above Japanese cars in USA. So its not a “cheap” car any more. check out videos; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8EwxrT4Nj0&feature=related

]]> By: Dylan http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235672 Dylan Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:35:01 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235672 <p>@GregW do you know when Fiat will bring the Arbath version of the 500 to NZ?</p> @GregW do you know when Fiat will bring the Arbath version of the 500 to NZ?

]]> By: lavardera http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235663 lavardera Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:27:33 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235663 <p>No Frank, unlike you I have no bias for or against Stephenson. I admire his work. The original 500 is not a pretty car, its cute, but very homely, and the design of the new one follows on the original. I think as a design interpretation of the original car the new one is very well done. But when you are starting with what is essentially an ugly car this approach lands you with another ugly car. Its a bulgy little blob shape - turd is rude, so I apologize if that offends. The original was not graceful, and neither is the reincarnation.</p> <p>That part of it is just a styling exercise, which is part of the problem. Given that the platform is so completely different between the two I'd say it makes less design sense for the old and new to be so similar. The original was a rear engine, rear drive car, the new front transverse mounted, front wheel drive. I see it more as a styling exercise that has more in common with the new beetle than the Mini. Conceptually this thing is a few steps away from a bug with a Rolls hood on it.</p> <p>Now I'm not faulting Stephenson for any of that - he did not design the platform, nor was he the guy who chose to reinvent the car this way. But its part of what the car is and its part of why I don't love it.</p> No Frank, unlike you I have no bias for or against Stephenson. I admire his work. The original 500 is not a pretty car, its cute, but very homely, and the design of the new one follows on the original. I think as a design interpretation of the original car the new one is very well done. But when you are starting with what is essentially an ugly car this approach lands you with another ugly car. Its a bulgy little blob shape – turd is rude, so I apologize if that offends. The original was not graceful, and neither is the reincarnation.

That part of it is just a styling exercise, which is part of the problem. Given that the platform is so completely different between the two I’d say it makes less design sense for the old and new to be so similar. The original was a rear engine, rear drive car, the new front transverse mounted, front wheel drive. I see it more as a styling exercise that has more in common with the new beetle than the Mini. Conceptually this thing is a few steps away from a bug with a Rolls hood on it.

Now I’m not faulting Stephenson for any of that – he did not design the platform, nor was he the guy who chose to reinvent the car this way. But its part of what the car is and its part of why I don’t love it.

]]> By: C4 http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235654 C4 Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:13:21 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235654 <p>Greg, I would not call the basic Fiat 500 a "turd". It is very far from it. I guess the Stephenson-Fiat connection on that car bothers you a bit. It is OK, we all have our biases....</p> Greg, I would not call the basic Fiat 500 a “turd”. It is very far from it. I guess the Stephenson-Fiat connection on that car bothers you a bit. It is OK, we all have our biases….

]]> By: JonPD http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235644 JonPD Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:38:05 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235644 <p>Also the 500 was voted at the European car of the year 2008.</p> <p>http://www.caroftheyear.org/pages/Coty08.htm</p> Also the 500 was voted at the European car of the year 2008.

http://www.caroftheyear.org/pages/Coty08.htm

]]> By: Ian F http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235631 Ian F Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:19:34 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235631 <p>neuron - sicne MINI UK doesn't even show a tow-rating for the 'Vert or coupe on their site, I'd guess there's a snowball's chance in hell of MINIUSA giving you any data. VW-US frowns on towing as well, while in Europe thier cars are available from the dealer with hitches and ratings are readily available.</p> <p>You'll just have to use your judgement.</p> <p>I like the 500. I think there's little chance of me ever buying one, but more competition is good.</p> neuron – sicne MINI UK doesn’t even show a tow-rating for the ‘Vert or coupe on their site, I’d guess there’s a snowball’s chance in hell of MINIUSA giving you any data. VW-US frowns on towing as well, while in Europe thier cars are available from the dealer with hitches and ratings are readily available.

You’ll just have to use your judgement.

I like the 500. I think there’s little chance of me ever buying one, but more competition is good.

]]> By: neuron http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235611 neuron Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:07:43 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235611 <p>Last time I drove the Smart was before the redesign. The break was not great, but I did not find it particularly problematic either. But I was mostly driving slowly in traffic anyway. I wonder if the redesigned car is heavier and therefore harder to stop. The transmission definitely stuttered. Somehow it did not bother me as I drove, top down, through the allyways of St. Germain or Seville. Maybe the absinthe has something to do with it? It was still better than the 30 year old 2cv I have driven in the hill country in Provence ... and I loved the 2CV.</p> <p>I would buy a 500, too. In my humble survey of 4 MINI owners in the my small street of 14 households,(used to be 6 MINI owners, one sold the car, one moved away) all of us are willing to get a Fiat 500. One of my neighbors, who was about to get a MINI, called Fiat and asked if he could go to Italy and pick up a 500 to bring back to U.S. No reply form Fiat, of course. I don't have any more luck than my neighbor either. I still can't get MINIUSA to tell me exactly what is the towing capacity on my convertible JCW.</p> Last time I drove the Smart was before the redesign. The break was not great, but I did not find it particularly problematic either. But I was mostly driving slowly in traffic anyway. I wonder if the redesigned car is heavier and therefore harder to stop. The transmission definitely stuttered. Somehow it did not bother me as I drove, top down, through the allyways of St. Germain or Seville. Maybe the absinthe has something to do with it? It was still better than the 30 year old 2cv I have driven in the hill country in Provence … and I loved the 2CV.

I would buy a 500, too. In my humble survey of 4 MINI owners in the my small street of 14 households,(used to be 6 MINI owners, one sold the car, one moved away) all of us are willing to get a Fiat 500. One of my neighbors, who was about to get a MINI, called Fiat and asked if he could go to Italy and pick up a 500 to bring back to U.S. No reply form Fiat, of course. I don’t have any more luck than my neighbor either. I still can’t get MINIUSA to tell me exactly what is the towing capacity on my convertible JCW.

]]> By: neuron http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235610 neuron Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:29:04 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235610 <p>BTW, did anyone mention that the ulgy old turd was voted, in 2006, the sexiest car in the world? Because it "advertise nothing about it's owner except it'd someone who doesn't need to try"</p> BTW, did anyone mention that the ulgy old turd was voted, in 2006, the sexiest car in the world? Because it “advertise nothing about it’s owner except it’d someone who doesn’t need to try”

]]> By: JonPD http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235608 JonPD Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:24:37 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235608 <p>neuron my main problem with the Smart is that the brakes are sub-standard. There isn't any excuse why that small of a car should stop so lazily, as a matter of fact brakes are more important in a city car than any other since cities are filled with total unpredictability. My other issue is with the gear change which is random at best, every time I've been in a Smart I have the feeling that if I needed to move quickly out of the way I would likely end up as a bumper ornament on a SUV.</p> <p>lavardera I honestly would buy a 500 over another Mini at this point. My next car is very likely to be a commuter car and little else. I would of course consider a Mini One or a Mini One D if they were available in the States. Failing that my only hope is for the Isetta or 500 which both recall the old days of small cars.</p> neuron my main problem with the Smart is that the brakes are sub-standard. There isn’t any excuse why that small of a car should stop so lazily, as a matter of fact brakes are more important in a city car than any other since cities are filled with total unpredictability. My other issue is with the gear change which is random at best, every time I’ve been in a Smart I have the feeling that if I needed to move quickly out of the way I would likely end up as a bumper ornament on a SUV.

lavardera I honestly would buy a 500 over another Mini at this point. My next car is very likely to be a commuter car and little else. I would of course consider a Mini One or a Mini One D if they were available in the States. Failing that my only hope is for the Isetta or 500 which both recall the old days of small cars.

]]> By: neuron http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235607 neuron Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:04:16 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235607 <p>BTW Fiat did have a bad rep. but not necessarily worse than that of ALL BRITISH CARS. The 2002 MINI quality sucked and sold like hotcakes. People are willing to sacrifice quality for style, otherwise everyone would be driving Toyota Camry and Landrover would not exist. The target audience for Fiat 500, like that of MINI cooper, are young and computer savy. The latest quality reports online are never too far away. They don't need to rely on quarter century old by word of mouth reputation.</p> BTW Fiat did have a bad rep. but not necessarily worse than that of ALL BRITISH CARS. The 2002 MINI quality sucked and sold like hotcakes. People are willing to sacrifice quality for style, otherwise everyone would be driving Toyota Camry and Landrover would not exist. The target audience for Fiat 500, like that of MINI cooper, are young and computer savy. The latest quality reports online are never too far away. They don’t need to rely on quarter century old by word of mouth reputation.

]]> By: neuron http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235605 neuron Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:46:55 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235605 <p>Fiat 500 is absolutely going to rob sales from MINI. MINI drivers, who bought the car because of the styling, who will never consider Kia or Yaris, who, if MINI does not exist, would be driving BMWs and Porche, will switch to Fiat 500. The fact that's it cheaper car would only help the switch.</p> <p>People who bash Smart simply don't get it. They don't realized that the vehicle should be seen as a four wheel scooter or motorized quadricycle, and it serves it's purpose EXTREMILY well in the city centers in Europe where there are places I would not be able to get to with a car unless I am driving a Smart car. Complaining about it's performence or ride quality is as pointless as complaining about MINI cooper's offroad ability or cargo space.</p> Fiat 500 is absolutely going to rob sales from MINI. MINI drivers, who bought the car because of the styling, who will never consider Kia or Yaris, who, if MINI does not exist, would be driving BMWs and Porche, will switch to Fiat 500. The fact that’s it cheaper car would only help the switch.

People who bash Smart simply don’t get it. They don’t realized that the vehicle should be seen as a four wheel scooter or motorized quadricycle, and it serves it’s purpose EXTREMILY well in the city centers in Europe where there are places I would not be able to get to with a car unless I am driving a Smart car. Complaining about it’s performence or ride quality is as pointless as complaining about MINI cooper’s offroad ability or cargo space.

]]> By: Shamus http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235603 Shamus Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:08:42 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235603 <p>I'm a bit miffed that I wasn't able to go to this event. I also got the invitation but was scuba diving in the caribbean and I didn't think my wife would buy it as an excuse not to go. Oh well.</p> <p>By the way, the quality issue is not a factor. You have to remember who their consumer demographic is. The majority of them will be simply too young to remember the 80's era rust-buckets that Fiat was selling at the time. If Chrysler can change in twenty years, so can Fiat.</p> I’m a bit miffed that I wasn’t able to go to this event. I also got the invitation but was scuba diving in the caribbean and I didn’t think my wife would buy it as an excuse not to go. Oh well.

By the way, the quality issue is not a factor. You have to remember who their consumer demographic is. The majority of them will be simply too young to remember the 80′s era rust-buckets that Fiat was selling at the time. If Chrysler can change in twenty years, so can Fiat.

]]> By: lavardera http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235599 lavardera Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:49:04 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235599 <p>I'm not saying the 500 won't sell. I think it will. I just don't think its going to rob sales from Mini. If they can sell it at 13,500 they will be competing with Hyundi, Kia, and Toyata, less so Honda as the Fit's format is a larger 4door. And also the Smart. A performance model would have to come into the country in numbers equal to the basic model akin to the Cooper and CooperS which I highly doubt.</p> <p>Mini was an unknown in 2002, any british car was suspect I suppose. But Mini left because they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't meet compliance. Fiat left because their quality destroyed their sales in the US. They are starting from someplace just above Yugo. Its not the same.</p> I’m not saying the 500 won’t sell. I think it will. I just don’t think its going to rob sales from Mini. If they can sell it at 13,500 they will be competing with Hyundi, Kia, and Toyata, less so Honda as the Fit’s format is a larger 4door. And also the Smart. A performance model would have to come into the country in numbers equal to the basic model akin to the Cooper and CooperS which I highly doubt.

Mini was an unknown in 2002, any british car was suspect I suppose. But Mini left because they didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t meet compliance. Fiat left because their quality destroyed their sales in the US. They are starting from someplace just above Yugo. Its not the same.

]]> By: C4 http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235592 C4 Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:24:29 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235592 <p>GregW its been said that the R56 MINI is "too big" for Italian tastes and streets. That plus the added premium have had an impact on its sales. And Italians will favor their domestic sourced 500 over the British import any day of the week...</p> GregW its been said that the R56 MINI is “too big” for Italian tastes and streets. That plus the added premium have had an impact on its sales. And Italians will favor their domestic sourced 500 over the British import any day of the week…

]]> By: GregW http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235591 GregW Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:40:50 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235591 <p>By the way, one of the top selling cars in NZ right now is the Suzuki Swift 4 door selling at NZ$19,900 (US$13,321). And they can't get enough of them.</p> By the way, one of the top selling cars in NZ right now is the Suzuki Swift 4 door selling at NZ$19,900 (US$13,321). And they can’t get enough of them.

]]> By: GregW http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235590 GregW Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:37:46 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235590 <p>Here in NZ, the prices are 500 NZ$29,900 (US$20,015)the same price as a MINI One, the Cooper Chilli being NZ$39,900 (US$26,709). You have to compare apples to apples though when it comes to engine size and spec. Why are sales of MINIs down in Italy? Could it be that native Italians are buying their own product?</p> Here in NZ, the prices are 500 NZ$29,900 (US$20,015)the same price as a MINI One, the Cooper Chilli being NZ$39,900 (US$26,709). You have to compare apples to apples though when it comes to engine size and spec. Why are sales of MINIs down in Italy? Could it be that native Italians are buying their own product?

]]> By: JonPD http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235585 JonPD Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:48:07 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235585 <p>You beat me to the punch with pointing out Smart sales C4 as a proof.</p> <p>So far from what I've been hearing from my friends the 500 is a solid little car with good to excellent reliability.</p> You beat me to the punch with pointing out Smart sales C4 as a proof.

So far from what I’ve been hearing from my friends the 500 is a solid little car with good to excellent reliability.

]]> By: Rocha http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/09/18/the-fiat-500-in-the-states/comment-page-1/#comment-235583 Rocha Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:04:30 +0000 http://www.motoringfile.com/?p=7216#comment-235583 <p>What is exactly the complaint with the Smart Car? I have test driven it twice, and I thoroughly enjoyed it both times. The paddle shifting (lifting off the the throttle during shifts) and the rear wheel drive made it a fun ride. Is it that it compares poorly against a MINI? Because I think comparing the two cars is like comparing apples to oranges. They are two totally different cars, in two totally different price categories. The only thing that they have in common is that they are both small. Let me just state that I love MINI Coopers, but I love the Lotus Elise even more, which is why I just acquired one. I also own a Honda Insight as a daily commuter which I think I might replace with a Smart Car down the road. So I ask again, what exactly is the issue with the Smart Car?</p> What is exactly the complaint with the Smart Car? I have test driven it twice, and I thoroughly enjoyed it both times. The paddle shifting (lifting off the the throttle during shifts) and the rear wheel drive made it a fun ride. Is it that it compares poorly against a MINI? Because I think comparing the two cars is like comparing apples to oranges. They are two totally different cars, in two totally different price categories. The only thing that they have in common is that they are both small. Let me just state that I love MINI Coopers, but I love the Lotus Elise even more, which is why I just acquired one. I also own a Honda Insight as a daily commuter which I think I might replace with a Smart Car down the road. So I ask again, what exactly is the issue with the Smart Car?

]]>