Can a Smaller MINI Sell in the US?
We at MF love the MINI. We love the ideas and the ideals behind it. We love the efficiency but still need the performance it offers. But there’s a opinion shared among all of us at MF that MINI needs to create something that falls below the current line-up. Not only cheaper but smaller but more efficient.
There’s evidence that BMW may be doing this very thing. The project “i” is all about efficiency and small vehicles. And whether the fruits of that project are seen in the BMW brand or something entirely new, we’re sure that the MINI brand will reap some benefits of the work currently being done. In fact we believe the MINI E is one of the first concrete steps of that program.
But would it sell? In Europe, the UK and other parts of the world where petrol prices are around or over $10 a US gallon, surely. But what about in MINI’s largest market; North America? With petrol fluctuating anywhere between $2.75 and $4.75, we have it lucky. Our need for efficiency isn’t driven out of the same dire financial reasons as many other markets. Yet there is a renewed interest in being frugal and smart about transportation here.
So let’s here your thoughts. Would you or people you know be interested in a MINI that is both smaller and more efficient but with performance in-line with a MINI One or a Cooper? Would you also sacrifice what little space the MINI currently has for all of this? Sound off below…
While I’m not currently in the market for a new car (I have a 2007 MCS), I would be interested in a small two seater if it were fun to drive. I use my MINI for a daily driver so the smaller car would have to have good safety ratings as well. That being said, I don’t know anybody else who would like a car even smaller than the current model.
Mini could make an intelligent version of a Smart (reasonably sized for freeway driving, good handling, 0-60 around 9 seconds, much better mileage [45 mpg?], and nice styling) and I could be interested.
The key for me is mileage. I would love to get better mileage than my 04 MCS (~28 mpg), but it would have to be a lot better to justify me enduring another round of car payment.
I think Smart has proven that there is a market for a smaller car. The Smart is not fun to drive, not terribly fuel efficient, nor is it very good looking. Yet even so, all US dealers have waiting lists. So, to me that leaves little doubt that there is sufficient interest.
Having purchased an 07 MCS JCW last year I won’t be in the market for a while. My hope is that I can turn my 07 into a track car and buy something ridiculously fuel efficient to counteract my consumption at the track for everyday.
I would love for that something to be a mini MINI.
My first car was a Mini. I now have a MINI. I love it, but it’s too big.
I agree with Mike C. Where is the Triumph that we heard about 2 years ago?
I’ve been hoping to see a MINI that is more in-line with the original. I’ve been hoping to see a MINI One or a reduced spec MINI that would be cheaper and more frugal (and with a few mods, faster!). A MINI CRX comes to mind, as I can deal with having wind up windows and no A/C.
Make it black, make it now BMW. Don’t even redesign the MINI just cut back on some features. Make it light and basic because you know it will be fun.
I actually considered a classic at one point, but was concerned about 20+ year old safety engineering. (and the need to move the seats for leg length).
If they did a good job on safety, I’d seriously consider upgrading from an S for my daily commute.
Here’s a formula I would trade my S for today. – $20,000, 2 seats, 5mpg better than Cooper on gas or 15mpg on diesel, 2 seats. As long as it’s faster than a MINI S on a typical autocross course, I don’t care about 0-60, top speed, etc.
I’m 6’4″ and I could see a MINI with the interior size of a 1st gen Miata which I also fit in. I’ve had the back seat out of the MINI since June and don’t need it. As long as MINI can keep the knee room I have now I would love to see a much smaller interior if it brought greater economy and performance. DSC and ABS, air bags and belts is all the safety I need, though I’m sure big brother will mandate more.
I liked the photo from awhile back of a concept two seater. Since my JCW Cabrio is my 2nd car/toy this would be right in my wheelhouse.
BMW announced a couple years ago they were coming out with a 300 hp 1 series two seater coupe. The photos were nice and that would be a sceamer. what happened to it? Maybe MINI could pick up that ball and run with it.
I also would love a “mini” Mini.
To paraphrase a mantra often seen on the Lotus boards:
The three basic traits of a car are acceleration, braking, and cornering. A large engine provides acceleration. But light weight provides all three.
If they made a 1:1 scale replica of the exterior of the classic Mini, put in an efficient, small engine, made most of the “extras” optional, and sold it for under $15K, I’d buy a dozen of em’. Call it the MINI Elf. Modern safety requirements probably wouldn’t allow an exact replica of the original (certainly not with four seats), unfortunately, but I can dream…
I would love a truly miniature MINI.
I love BMW’s ‘modern’ version, but I think if they remade the classic Mini, but with improved safety features, I would absolutely LOVE one of those cars.
I am betting that a “true” Mini (i.e. a Mini footprint) would sell very well. Just look at the numbers of rubbish Smarts you see everywhere and that should prove that point.
Second the comments by Jared, lightweight smaller car would be incredible. What I would personally go nuts over would be for BMW/Mini to dig out their old presses. A classic body on a modern suspension and motor would rock. Think also unlike a SUV bearing the Mini logo it matches perfectly with the brand image.
I would deffinetly buy a well conceived Mini city car.
is that an HONESTY question? of course i would!!! the mini is already great! having a smaller one would be amazing too! great for kids too. with a smaller car they can’t carry a bunch of friends with them and therefore can’t be as distracted while driving, smaller mini means more garage and driveway space, maybe pull a smart car deal and make two Mini Jr’s fit in one parking spot! that’d be pretty freakin sweet!
Also, lighter weight car with similar suspension geometry (maybe even direct crossovers???) would be amazing at handling!!!!! i was always curious for almost an S2000 approach to a Mini… take BMW’s basic rear wheel drive, make it smaller, see if it will fit long rather than trans in the engine bay, and have just a two seater! so like the Mini GP but actually made to be specifically two seater… or… if that’s a problem, maybe even try and do it like smart does, no rear seats, just rear engine and rear wheel drive, then pull a porsche and make the front where the engine used to be into the “trunk” brings whole new meaning to POPPIN THE HOOD! 😛
anyhoo that’s just my basic idea… either way i’d LOVE to see and have a smaller Mini!
I’d have to agree with wanting a Mini-er MINI. I came real close to buying a late-model Mini before my ’07 S, but was put off by reliability and safety concerns. I’m basically fine with my current fuel efficiency, HOWEVER, if BMW were to introduce a nicely proportioned (non-Smart), slightly smaller MINI with the Diesel and wicked handling, I’d definitely bite!
They should keep in mind that just about every manufacturer is facing the same issue of needing to bring smaller, more fuel-efficient cars to the US but none of them are focusing on performance! Economy yes, performance no. Stay true to the mantra that made BMW what it is today (but sadly lost), light and fast premium cars with an emphasis on handling.
I don’t expect to red-light-race Porsche’s with this new econobox, but I’d certainly like to infuriate them in the twisties!
<blockquote>What I would personally go nuts over would be for BMW/Mini to dig out their old presses. A classic body on a modern suspension and motor would rock.</blockquote>
Yes that would be great. You just have to convince people to drive a MINI that wouldn’t even get one star on the NHTSA crash test. Nevermind not even passing minimum DOT requirements.
The only way I see that happening is if they make the entire car out of some type of advanced composite, such as carbon fiber. However, I don’t see that happening in the near term.
Sorry, I still need 4 seats at a very minimum. To me 2 seater cars have very little use.
I think MINI is going in a bigger/heavier direction and they need to re-consider that approach. It may have worked for BMW, but it will not for MINI in the long term.
The Classic Mini is 50 year old technology. The car was developed in the late 1950’s, and while groundbraking for its day, today this cherished car lacks the safety features most of us have grown accustomed to. I would love to own a Classic Mini one day, but you won’t see me driving it everyday. (My hats off to folks that drive their classics every day).
I am not sure how feasible will be to make a MINI of the size of the original while meeting modern safety standards. I think this was the conundrum that BMW faced during the development of the R53 in the 1990’s. In order to make the car marketeable and legal in most markets around the world, the car had to be bigger, heavier than the original and have the latest safety gear that was largerly absent from the original model (Sans front airbags which were available in the last years of the Rover made Mini).
So the problem here is safety. How to go smaller and safe? it is a huge challenge. However, I don’t think that MINI nneds to go to the other side of the spectrum either and make cars as big as any other compact car and still call it “MINI”.
I seriously doubt MINI will ever manufacture a car smaller than the R53 or the same size as the Issigonis Mini.
The only other viable way that BMW can address the mild success of the Smart is by making a similar type of vehicle. I envision a 21st century rendition of the original Isetta, in the same fashion MINI brought back the original nearly 7 years ago.
I can’t see the numbers working out to justify the engineering involved to get it safety worthy, which is something someone will seriously look at if they by a micro car.
You’d have to sell it for at least $3000 less than the Cooper, so the margins will be small.
I’m sure MINI has considered bringing the One over here, but I bet there is a fear that it would steal sales from the Cooper. I bet it would hurt resale on Coopers, too.
Nah, I think the better move would be to offer the electric or diesel in the US and charge MORE than the Cooper, or bring a diesel One over and charge the SAME as the Cooper.
A small and efficient SMART like car would be amazing. Just as long as it gets better mileage then the SMART!!
However what I think would be absolutely amazing is the JCW prospect of this. In fact I think it would be amazing to have only two models: a fuel efficient small car. And a reworked performance model that uses the crazy small lightweight car the same way the original JCW Mini did!!!
Out of curiosity I drove a mew Mazda Miata yesterday – A rough little car that can in no way compare to my 2008 MINI S Convertible.
I would like an exact replica of the original Mini with up-to-date safety features. Probably with a small diesel engine. I would buy an hundred of these.
I had a ride in an early imported Mini, and it was a blast! – Fantastic.
I love my present MINI, but I would love to buy one of the little ones.
I would give up horse for efficiency. I use my MINI for daily commute and do not ever race. The size of the R53 is perfect for me since I do want a 4-seater.
I wish I could remember specifically where I saw this but I inderstand someone got a hold of the original body molds of classic Minis and was making new cars(by order) with upfated technology for the engine/chassis. Bet it’s pricey but how cool is that?
yup
YUP 2
I have a Cooper now, but would be interested in something smaller and just as fun to drive. A 2 seat coupe/roadster would grab my attention.
Build anything that gets anywhere near 50 mpg and it will sell like hot cakes. Because every May from now on there will be an oil shortage driving up the price of fuel to $5/gallon or more.
Why even bother to build a different platform, just give use the TDI or put a smaller engine in the current car.
yes.
Yes… Mini needs to come out with a mini Mini around the size of the original. If they keep on going in the same direction (size wise) they may have to rename them self Maxi : )
This old chestnut 🙂 I would love a smaller, lighter MINI.
Would be happy with a small competent commuter car, would never expect a lightweight track day car as much as I think they are aiming at the micro city cars like the Smart. Would be happy with something with stable steering, competent brakes, and a decent transmission.
Would love to see a track day 2 seater but think a commuter would sell much better.
They need to do a MINI version of this:
![Alt text](<a href="http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/images/parts/HondaCRX.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/images/parts/HondaCRX.jpg</a>)
Are you trying to get free market research for further models? lol
Yeah baby, the late 1980’s CRX was truly a great Japanese rendition of the MINI. Awesome car. I used to salivate at the CRX Si model when it first came out in 1988. The last CRX rolled up the assembly line in 1991 and was replaced by the Honda DelSol in ’92. Todd owned a DelSol and loved it. But to me this car was never really a direct successor to the late CRX.
Am I wrong, Todd?
I say don’t grow the present R55 at all- just drop the weight by a few hundred pounds. I know it sounds hard, but the new Mazda 2 in europe did that. Mass produced alternative lightweight components could decrease the cost. I don’t think the present car can get that much smaller and maintain its safety standard.
Go Lotus on us MINI.
Why can’t Honda make cars with the nice design lines of that CRX above? Look at that car and think for a minute….. That baby was designed in the mid 1980’s and 20 years later that car looks really good and has aged quite well.
Will you be able to say the same thing about the current Honda Fit design 20 years from now?
Another very “MINI like” honorable mention from the same time frame was the 1988-1991 (or thereabouts) Suzuki Swift GT 16V. What a sweet little car that was. I almost bought one. It handled great and had the feel of the R53.
Guys,
Hate to burst this bubble, but my wife just came back from a Mini customer clinic/survey here in SoCal, and all they were showing was BIGGER minis. Much bigger. Like a mini branded mini van and SUV. Someone already said it here: if North America is the biggest mini market, and if they want to increase sales, stupid americans almost all believe bigger is better when it comes to cars. That’s why we stopped leasing Hondas a few years ago (my wife and I both have MCSs now) – the Honda Civic is bigger than the older Accord, and the Accord my wife last drove was as big as a Buick! Ugh!
I’d love to see a smaller Mini, and that’s why I went for the slightly used 2006 I bought instead of the bigger 2007, even though I like the turbo motor better (but I HATE the new dashboard). If BMW sold a smaller Mini with all the options available in the bigger ones, I’d sell mine an ‘trade down’ in a second, but they won’t. At least, not in the US.
Btw – why does everyone wish for a cheaper, ‘stripped’ version of the current car? You could always order it with no options. That’s what I like BEST about the Mini – have it your way. If the Japanese ever WAKE UP to that concept (in their small, economical cars), Mini may be done for.
I don’t think MINI or the world needs another car that is actually smaller than the MINI.
What MINI should do is import the One or the diesel to America, or maybe a new variant that has a more fuel efficient engine and less bulk… maybe a hybrid.
A smaller lighter MINI would be great. They could just use the existing design and reduce weight and it would be awesome. That is really what needs improvement. The old Minis were fun, but I agree with folks that say they probably couldn’t be made safe or comfortable enough to be competitive in todays market without adding massive weight and defeating the purpose. Now a mid-engine MINI sportscar, using the 1.6 JCW engine, someting with Lotus-like reflexes and speed, but getting 40 MPG, that would be interesting…
My first experience classic Mini was back in high school, With the original seats we no problem driving with four guys. Then I bought my first classic mini it came with sport seats at 6’1 I had plenty of room. It was a 1963 right hand drive and sliding windows. I never had a problem going through a drive through restaurant paying for and getting my food. Loved the fact I could pick up the rear end and move it. Great on gas but still had to wait in the lines at the gas station for five gallons of gas, back in the 70’s. It was tighter turns, A whole different car then what I now have now, a 2007 MCS. I love them both but bought the the new one on the memories of what you can do in a classic mini.
Smaller = more fun for less $
You could sell one to me if it had slider windows, a micro-cab and wheelbase, 12 inch tires, a smaller turbo engine and about 500 lbs less weight. Airbags? You talkin’ about AIRBAGS???
With my R53 I’ve been spoiled by the upgraded fit and finish and creature comforts. But to have a true micro car is what I dream of. Yeah, give us a micro version of the MINI ONE. And right-hand drive…..
We need a grass root effort to get more efficient cars in the USA. The car makers are always trying to sell bigger models. We need to change the laws in the way when they made handicapped parking spaces. they need to make a law that the rest of the 50% closest parking spaces are for cars with 30 or 35 mpg and move it up every five years.
Thats what I think
Sorry for being WAY off topic…
Gabe (or anyone else), how do you get that enlarged image effect when clicking on an image (like the mini next to the phone booth up above)?
Now I’ve read everything! How many times previously have we read about the up-sizing of MINI into what it is today?
How come the Japanese, Koreans, as well as the major European manufacturers including VW (Polo) can make a safe car smaller than the MINI? Answer – because they can!
BMW are renown for UP-SIZING models and then finding they got ’em too big, so have to introduce a new smaller car ( 3 series then 1 series).
GOOD NEWS FOR OLD Mini fans – British Motor Heritage is still making bodies for Minis and MGB.
and I tell you what – My old Mini has more leg room and space in the back for two adults than the new MINI.
Just start making the original Mini’s again, i would love to get a nice beauty like the last ones that rolled off the production line! Here in South Africa they are not around, I seriously think we missed out on not having them here!!!
I’ve owned my Mini “S” Type since “03” and I have to say it’s the most FUN I’ve ever had with my clothes “ON”!. I only haul me and the occasional groceries so the coupe could just as well be a two seater like the Smart Car.
I’m sure other manufacturers are watching how America receives the Smart Car before they make any moves. BMW has has certainly made a good investment when it created the “Luxury” sub-compact Mini, and think they would be equally successful with a “Luxury” performance oriented chassis based on the Smart Car exterior size.
I would be interested in a smaller MINI for my commuting purposes. However, it would need to exceed the 50 mpg I’ve been getting with my ’03 TDI… although I would still be hard-pressed to give up the utility of my wagon… but we have other cars (including an ’03 MCS and ’07 MCc) for times when more space is required…
YES! A truely MINI MINI! What a thought. A two seat version of my 05 MCSc R52, wheels pushed to the outside, corners on a dime, top down, low slung! Oh Baby, what a ride that would be.
How about leaving the 2 types (Reg and S), but doing a Mini Lightweight just like an M3. No sunroof, perhaps carbon fiber, standard seat, not power, crank windows, not power…..save the weight, more efficiency, def more fun.
Yes, I would buy such a car……if BMW remembers the the fun-to-drive, engaging dynamics that truly undergird the popularity of both Minis and MINIs.
<strong>YES!</strong> I once saw a MINI billboard that read, <strong> “SMALL IS THE NEW BLACK.”</strong> And I think it is; I think people are finally starting to realize how tacky gas pigs are.
I would buy a smaller MINI! I think that the current model is just too big & heavy. But a smaller version…they wouldn’t be able to keep them on the lots.
The smaller MINI just went on sale in Japan: the Toyota iQ. It’s a very cleverly packaged car.
Yeah, and Toyota is already thinking that they might bring it over here! Add that to the list with the Ford Ka, Smart, and Fiat 500. The US market might just be getting very interesting!
My ’05 R53 S is around 2,500 pounds. My Clubman S Auto is 2,900 pounds. My guess is that the AWD R60 is going to be the first production MINI to break the 3,000 curb weight barrier. No doubt MINI is adding more fat and bulk to these cars for no other reasons than to make them bigger, heavier and charge more.
Glenn, I like your thinking! Start giving some advantages on the road to the smallest cars- besides parking spaces how about lower cost road taxes for the little guys.
Anyone know if the Fiat 500 will be smaller/lighter than the current MINI? That car has serious style improvements over the Smart-dumb car.
Why is it everyone complaining that they want a mini with better gas mileage has an S…? You could have gotten a Cooper like me- im getting 40mpg commuting to work…
But yes i agree- i would love an old school mini! the interior design (like all older cars) was made to provide space… my 1990 Civic si had more room than my new Cooper…
But since (stupid saftey rules) we will not get a remake of the original- why cant we have the one or the D???
Americans are idiots if they think we can keep driving our big ol SUVs and not have to worry about gas prices…
The Fiat is smaller and lighter
<a href="http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2007/07/10-fiat-500/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2007/07/10-fiat-500/</a>
A link to the dimensions
<a href="http://www.carbodydesign.com/gallery/2007/07/10-fiat-500/15/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.carbodydesign.com/gallery/2007/07/10-fiat-500/15/</a>
I agree C4 with the fact the R60 is going to be a 3000+ lb car. Between the extra doors and awd.
The miniMINI I want should have tight handling, be light and not much more than 3m long. If it had the original shape, then that would just be a bonus, but if not, just as close as possible please (headlights forward – not stretched halfway down the body or pointing up to the sky). This is the only MINI I would give my r50 up for.
Most of you might not know that the tooling for the original CLASSIC MINI bodyshells, not only still exists but is still used to build new bodies! The old Rover company set up a separate firm BRITISH MOTOR HERITAGE to continue building MGBs in small numbers, and the operation was expanded to other models including the MINI. See here…
<a href="http://www.bmh-ltd.com/minishell.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.bmh-ltd.com/minishell.htm</a>
So to put a modern version of the Classic Mini back in production would be possible. It just needs a bold entrepreneur to do it!
I saw my first Fiat 500 the other day and I was really disappointed. I had hoped that I would like it as much (or more) in real life as in the pictures. The front looked too similar to an early 2000s Daewoo Matiz and the rear was a strange slope with bits jutting out over the rear quarters. Sorry Frank – love the rest of your work. It may grow on me as the MINI did though.
A guy at school used to have a classic Fiat 500 and four guys could lift it and move it around the corner so the owner didn’t know where it was. You can also do that with my Moke. No chance with a modern MINI or Fiat 500.
If I was to win the lottery, I would buy the tooling for the classic in a second. I wonder if you could still call it a Mini? Maybe the brand could be “Classic” and the model “Mini”?
Yep know the presses were still working have seen a new body not that long ago from them. Very nice workmanship on it. Still hard to imagine a better start for a city car imo.
Bigger is always better for Americans, until the price of fuel goes up. Then its small cars that have the nod. A smaller MINI will sell to a particular market, but I’m not sure which one, DINKS, Urban pros, or urban/suburban retired.
Make a smaller 2dr hatchback by losing the boot. Have a passenger door that’s longer or incorporates a suicide door. The back seats should fold down for carrying groceries and such. Power from a 2 or 3 cylinder diesel / hybrid, or current power plant.
Try not to make it to AMC Gremlin like.
Although if the back seats were removed and the cabin shortened for 2 and a trunk lid added, it would make a nifty small “classic” sedan….
A modern remake of the MINI 1000 would be awesome! I would get it in Mr. Bean colors 🙂
Not for a while though, I just bought an 09 MINI.
<p>Is BMW teaming with Fiat to bring out a MINI version of the Fiat 500? I would VERY much like to see two MINI concepts to come out. A MINI aerodynamic CRX type 2 seater based on the current Cooper S ………</p>
<p>.and a smaller,lighter,cheaper,no frills 1.2 to 1.4 ltr DOHC 6spd not much bigger than the original Mini Cooper S of pre 2000 era. Either would be of interest.. especially the latter if sold for around 15k in USA .Oops gotta go -Excuse me I just wet myself.</p>