Comments on: Ask MF: Is 87 Octane Ok?

By: Craig L

Craig L — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:55:53 +0000

The detergent argument is bunk these days if you get gas at most any reputable station. I use Quicktrip and it's the same detergents/detergent lvl.

You can tell the car obbsessive in these replies and you cannot argue with them. They eat, sleep and breathe their cars so it is understandably important to them.

To those that keep tossing the $9-$10 a month thing out there...do you live 5 miles from your house???

With my commute (and many other people living in Atlanta) the difference in 87 and 93 octane breaks down to about $40 a month.

$500 a year is worthwhile reason to investigate 87 or 89 octane gas in the newer 07+ engines.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:05:27 +0000

I gotta say, I’m with C4 on this one. False economy.

By: Brian

Brian — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:07:38 +0000

If you buy gas from Chevron, Shell, Mobil, BP etc, there is no difference in the detergents between octane. R53 runs fine on any octane that I have put in it. No ping ever. I’ve had my car for over 4 years.

By: C4

C4 — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:34:31 +0000

And I can't understand the cheapo bastard mentallity either when it comes to saving a measly $10 per month in gas and decreased performance.

These are the same folks that cry in the service department when they are presented with the repair bill.

By: iNomis

iNomis — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:26:06 +0000

What is funny, is why anyone would laugh at and ridicule someone for posting about their own personal experience saving a significant amount per gallon (currently 1.49 vs 1.89) using an APPROVED fuel that makes no noticeable difference in how their car runs. The motivation for it escapes me. I can understand why someone may want to (and MINI’s recommendation to) run premium to get the last 3%(?) of power or milage. I just can’t understand the fervor to get everyone else to feel it’s is the only rational choice.

By: Mk1

Mk1 — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:29:30 +0000

Hi-larious. Do you gas-misers also only shower once a week, to save the 20 cents per it takes to heat the water each time? Do you buy your clothes at Goodwill to cut your wardrobe costs in half? Do you only do laundry once a month, and wear each pair of your jeans at least week, to save that extra $2 of laundry detergent. Do you dumpster-dive behind Safeway for your lunch to forgo paying $1.50 for that take-out sandwich? Sounds like obsessive-complusive disorder to me. If you can’t afford the extra few bucks a week for premium gas – you bought the wrong car.

By: nickminir56

nickminir56 — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:02:27 +0000

Why buy a nice car and make it less enjoyable for a mere $2.50-$3.00 per tank?

Anyway, for people go that far to save a few dollars: regular maintenance + low rolling-resistance tire + hyper miler technique save you a lot more.

By: Woofcast #279 | donburnside.com

Woofcast #279 | donburnside.com — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:37:15 +0000

[...] be landing and we think it’s going to be happening at AMVIV in ‘09. We also revisited the octane debate one last [...]

By: Chris Lamb

Chris Lamb — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:05:06 +0000

Craig,

those compression ratios are with NO boost! On the road there IS boost.

FWIW is use 98 RON UK fuel in my MCS.

By: Craig

Craig — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:18:42 +0000

The difference is the Compression Ratio. The Cooper S has a lower compression ratio than the Cooper version, in both the R56 and R50/53.

That doesn't hold as much water with the R56. The R56 Cooper has a CR of 11:1 and Cooper S has 10.5:1. The R50 had 10.6:1 and the R53 8.3:1.

If anything, fuel grade should be more important in the R55/56/57.

By: Badburro

Badburro — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:35:09 +0000

Saving $2.50 per tank is not worth it people. Give up your latte for the day and your MINI will thank you for it.

If you're really thrifty and want to save, why not get your 87 octane gas from Arco? (could anything be worse???)

By: MotoringFile » Archive » White Roof Radio #279

MotoringFile » Archive » White Roof Radio #279 — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:03:00 +0000

[...] be landing and we think it’s going to be happening at AMVIV in ‘09. We also revisited the octane debate one last [...]

By: Woofcast #279 | whiteroofradio.com - The MINI Cooper Podcast

Woofcast #279 | whiteroofradio.com - The MINI Cooper Podcast — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:00:30 +0000

[...] be landing and we think it’s going to be happening at AMVIV in ‘09. We also revisited the octane debate one last [...]

By: Second to none

Second to none — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:48:39 +0000

I wouldn’t use 87 in a cooper. In an S model, yes. The difference is the Compression Ratio. The Cooper S has a lower compression ratio than the Cooper version, in both the R56 and R50/53. If you are not driving in boost, you won’t have a problem. If you are driving in boost, you can get away with it in very cold temps provided you are not trying to do a track day, and you are running the stock ECU software. The reason you see a decline in MPG with the coopers is because your engine is retarding. Your spark timing is retarding itself so the fuel is given less time to burn in the combustion chamber (think ignition at 5 degrees BTDC instead of 30 degrees BTDC example of ignition timing) Should you use it or not is your personal decision. I ran my R53 no pulley or anything on 87 and it ran great. 10psi stock, on 87, no problem. After some modifications, and GIAC, it would ping (like ticking) at anything over 5psi. Mostly from the software i’m sure, as a/f ratios will change the likelihood of autoignition (pinging) in the engine. With my mild economical driving style, I run 87 in the winter. In the summer I run 93 or 91, as the hotter intake temps plus compressing before the spark make the difference between auto igniting at 5 degrees BTDC or 30 degrees BTDC. Look into the “gas law”, not “boyles law” on google or wiki or whatever you’d prefer. Boyles law does not account for the heat that the vaporized fuel absorbs, if anyone is curious. Email me with criticism or questions. I like these arguements!

By: Dave MacMini

Dave MacMini — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:51:47 +0000

If your owners manual “requires” premium fuel, you should use it, but if it “recommends” premium, a lower octane will work fine. We have used mid-grade fuel in all our MINIs, one Cooper and two MCSs since 2002, and have had no problem. My service advisor told me that BMW had indicated to him that the Cooper (a 2002) would actually run better with mid-grade than with premium, and that is what we have used since we got that advice. BTW, if you have a car that the manufacturer says should use regular gas, you are absolutely wasting your money if you put premium in it. You will not get better performance or mileage. However, if your car is designed to run premium, you might take a small hit in performance and mileage by using regular, but in most modern cars, the on-board computer will compensate for the differnt octane, and there will be no damage done. If you are getting pinging, move up one grade and see what happens.

By: robble

robble — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:03:36 +0000

You want to save money on gas? Buy a bicycle.

Don't cry when the service department tells you your service engine soon light is not going to be covered under warranty because you didn't use the gas the label on the gas cover says to use.

By: glangford

glangford — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:03:18 +0000

The ratings are not the same in Europe and the US.

"In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane rating, shown on the pump, is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, is 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and some even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON)." 95 in Europe is about 90-91 here.

By: r.burns

r.burns — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:50:40 +0000

No in Europe it is 95 the standard ! and 98 is recommanded for the MCS and Works ! you have to fill up with these unless you don’t reach the entire power of masterpiece/motor

By: Albert

Albert — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:22:34 +0000

In Europe cars are tested at 91 octane (stantard for the EU). I filled my car once with 93, then every half tank I fill up with 89, the next half tank with 93, and so on. The mix avergaes 91 octane fuel or so and saves some money, if that’s the goal.

By: Ken

Ken — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:54:28 +0000

Out here, 89 octane is about 10 cents/gallon more than 87, and 92 or 93 is about 16-18 cents more than 87. I alternate fillups between 89 and 92 or 93 (depends on the day, same station, sometimes 92, sometimes 93, go figger).

So, I average about 12 cents per gallon more than 87 and average about 91 octane. 8 percent more for 5-6 percent better mileage? Sure, sounds close enough to a wash to me.