MINI Considering Diesel for US Market

greg Feb 11th, 2009 Link

nerds rejoice!

Reply

glangford Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Great news. I’m hoping a base model Cooper can be had in diesel without too much of a cost increase. But given the cost increases seen recently in newer models like the convertible , I’m not optimistic.

Reply

Mini Nyc Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Bring. It. On.

Reply

jarrett Feb 11th, 2009 Link

sooner the better

Reply

jimskater Feb 11th, 2009 Link

DB will be happy

Reply

greg Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Alright. Someone please explain why this is a better choice than the base Cooper? It costs more and diesel fuel is significantly more expensive. I know diesel gets better mileage but enough to make a cost savings in the long run?

Or is this just more emporer’s new clothes/symbolism over substance that unfortunately so many Mini people seem to subscribe to these days.

Reply

lilcoopr Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Yes please!! If they bring it to the US that means Canada will likely get it too! Canadian customers want it! I find that at least 1 in 8 customers seriously inquire about a diesel option.

Reply

jarrett Feb 11th, 2009 Link

well lets see 65mpg on highway and probably 30+ in town at $1 a more a gallon, to me seems a great. or for instance leave waskom,. texas and drive to el paso with just one fuel stop.

Reply

glangford Feb 11th, 2009 Link

It could be a great choice for the US market. Read the USA article. Diesel monday is only 11% over premium fuel. It won’t get 65 mpg, but an epa rating in the mid to upper 40s would pay for the added fuel.

The real issue is what cost premium over the gas engine is the diesel going to be? If it is a $5000 dollar premium to buy a diesel like it is a convertible, then it is going to take a long time to pay off that upfront investment, particularly at recent fuel costs. A cost premium of a couple of thousand and the diesel becomes very attractive. We’ll see, time will tell.

Reply

Dan Feb 11th, 2009 Link

seems the latest news from mini has been things we all wish they’ve been doing all along. Instrument pods, diesels, next thing you know they’re going to re-design the center stack lol

Reply

DUDE! Feb 11th, 2009 Link

I commented at USA Today that this had already been touted by MF and was old news to us MF followers.

Reply

Dr Obnxs Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Mini is giving some confused messages… I the softroader news they said no diesel for the US, and now they say they’re “seriously considering” a diesel for the US?!?!?

For those not up to date on the diesel advantages, it has a 20% higher energy density than gas (hence the higher gas mileage). But it’s a hit in Europe because of the relative tax structures of gas (tons of taxes) over diesel (not much tax). Here, that’s not the case so the payback times are longer here than there.

Matt

Reply

Dr Obnxs Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Direct quote from the article “President Jim McDowell, in comments to USA TODAY, provided official confirmation that such a car is being considered. “It’s not certain,” he cautioned.

He did say a U.S. diesel Mini — if there is one — would use a new-generation clean-diesel engine rather than a modified version of the overseas diesel.”

So, it’s not certain, and it requires a new engine. 2010 would be a pipe dream! 2011? Maybe….

I’m not holding my breath.

Matt

Reply

dc11r Feb 11th, 2009 Link

What they need to consider instead of this diesel, is lowering prices and offering better priced packages to attract buyers in this crap economy.

Oh also, improve the interior to at least compete against lower priced VWs.

Reply

greg Feb 11th, 2009 Link

If the mileage is better I wonder where the cut off is length of ownership wise to make up for the cost of fuel and the cost of the car.

I’ve read one doesn’t break even on a hybrid vehicle(specifically an Accord) until after six years.

So how’s the performance of the diesel? A dud or is there an S model?

Reply

GregW Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Prospective owners should do the math on diesel versus petrol. Compare costs of a tank of diesel and work out expected mileage range to get costs per mile. Do the same with petrol. Then factor in any extra costs of retail price of car, and other taxes – does USA have a road user tax on diesel?, are the license costs the same?. I compared costs of diesel vs petrol in my own home market and there is only a very small saving per distance travelled because of extra taxes/costs. The only advantage I could see was if I did a very high mileage over a short period.

Reply

C4 Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Greg, these high tech diesels have gobs and gobs of low end torque (Probably even more than the R56 gasoline engine) but they do run out of steam quicker too in the upper power band. A 90HP Diesel engine can have more torque (And accelerate quicker) than a 118HP gasoline engine.

There is no S model and no force induction diesels in the MINI stable. This car is mostly dialed for economy over speed/performance.

Reply

hank chinaski Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Will they make it “Bluetec” clean?

Reply

JP Feb 11th, 2009 Link

I would guess that BMW is scrambling to meet future mileage requirements coming from the Obama administration

Reply

joe Feb 11th, 2009 Link

any chance of a hybrid? or is that what the E is supposed to substitute for?

Reply

Ian F Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Great. So everyone will be asking me, “are you going to get a diesel MINI???” And my answer will be an emphatic, “NO!”

As a current owner of two diesel vehicles, I can say with reasonably certainty I will not own another.

I’m also hoping to replace my current diesel Dodge 4×4 with a gas truck ASAP. Will it get the 23 mpg I’ve gotten with the Cummins? No. But it also won’t be the hassle the Cummins is.

My TDI was the right car for me at the right time (early 2003). That time has passed. Sure… my 90hp TDI, has as much torque as an R53… but it means little when the engine falls on its face past 3K rpms and pulling to the whopping 4K redline gets you little more than noise.

Reply

GregW Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Greg – the diesel performs very well compared to standard Cooper. As with other diesels when you get to rev limit you run out of steam. You have to get your change pattern correct to get full performance. An auto diesel would overcome this. R56 PSA engine certainly is an improvement on the R50 diesel. There is no “S” diesel.

Reply

Nebo Murisic Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Check this out. The engine in the diesel offered in Europe currently is from PSA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQQxYgzXY3I

Reply

dc11r Feb 11th, 2009 Link

for most americans, diesel will be a hassle. only if we had the same diesel regulations as europe… things would be better… but we dont.

and this hype about MPG is all the media’s fault. its never worth it to get a german car that is eco-friendly because by the time you hit the point where it makes sense financially to own an eco-fuel/hybrid car, the car will be out of warranty… and instead of saving money on fuel, you’ll be spending money on repairs that cost an arm and a leg ever 3 months.

then you will try to sell it, and realize that the used car market for a diesel is squat.

the only time it ever makes sense to buy a hybrid car is if you care about the planet (by means of better emissions). thats it. it will never make sense financially – not in another decade or more.

Reply

DR61 Feb 11th, 2009 Link

Please bring in the Cooper D. Currently in my area Diesel sells at the same price as Premium. Prices change all the time, but Diesels put out 15-25% less CO2 compared to equivalent gas models. Diesels have great torque! Go test a 2009 VW TDI(236 ft-lb torque from a 2 liter engine); they are a blast to drive, and meet 50-state emissions.

Reply

Dr Obnxs Feb 12th, 2009 Link

There are ways to clean diesel without urea. It involves a pretty complex catalyst train though. And it’s not the Obama administration that is pushing this. For those that care to learn both the EPA and Europe already have emissions regulation timelines in place that get ever stricter over time. And this is independant of who won the last US presidential election.

Matt

Reply

Alan Tate Feb 12th, 2009 Link

Did anyone else see the small note in Autoweek a few months back that BMW was considering a turbo diesel for the M series. Initial estimates put it quicker than the current M3. A turbo diesel S may be the future, not the near future, but the future.

Reply

C4 Feb 12th, 2009 Link

The R50 MINI ONE D had a Toyota sourced diesel engine (1.4L) that was also used in the European market Toyota Yaris. It had a 6 spd Getrag gearbox, same exact as the R53 S, but with different gear ratios.

Reply

GregW Feb 12th, 2009 Link

C4 – yes correct. I drove one and it was not a good experience. Typical diesel and slow revving. The car was not worthy of putting a Cooper badge on it. I think they were only available as ONE models.

Reply

Lucas Feb 12th, 2009 Link

IMO, the problem with past Mini diesel models outside of U.S. was, that it was packaged more as a econo-mini rather than performance-efficient-mini. Sans diesel enthusiasts, in order for the Mini to be successful with a diesel engine states side, it would have to deliver high performance diesel engine comparable to the current line of gasoline engine that Mini-owners and potential Mini buyers states side have come to expect.

Diesel cars still brings to mind for most Americans the image of smelly, noisy, slow-moving trucks, buses and old Mercedes of the years past — that I think, plus higher price of diesel fuel, leads to low interest in diesel cars.

As far as driving dynamics, whether one would be satisfied with a diesel engine depends on the style of driving. Diesels have high torque at low revs but runs out of steam quickly (by 4k rpm). This would be annoying for current Mini owners who revs high to go fast.

Reply

New super efficient diesel on it's way? - MINI2 - MINI Forum Feb 13th, 2009 Link

[...] New super efficient diesel on it’s way? So MINI is seriously introducing a new diesel range to the US It is said to have a new engine not the same as the current engine Could this be the "efficient" engine hinted for the 2010 convertible. Less than 110g/km please! Mini confirms it is considering a diesel for U.S. market – USATODAY.com MotoringFile Archive MINI Considering Diesel for US Market [...]

indi Feb 14th, 2009 Link

Diesel is already more expensive and once it is more popular, the demand will drive the difference even higher. I just don’t see diesel offer significant savings over gasoline in the foreseeable future. It is also much harder to find. The benefit just does not add up.

Reply

jrbond May 6th, 2009 Link

Looking on the mini.co.uk website, a clubman D is advertised as getting 68.9 MPG combined. In US gallons that is 57.4 MPG & 4.1L/100km for the rest of the world. That is better then the Prius. Diesel has had more stable pricing. Yes now it is more expensive, but it have less expensive more often in the past. It was cheaper until Bush started his war mongering, & the military needed a lot more diesel fuel. I my area, diesel is only 30 cents more per gallon. It has stayed the same while gas has risen. Trurk & rail traffic have reduced, so demand for diesel has dropped. That may result in lower prices down the road.

Reply