MINI Solves the R56 Cold Start Issue

Ryan T. May 12th, 2009 Link

Is this covered under warranty?

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Stephen Powell May 12th, 2009 Link

Sure good point about VANOS. Except MCS engines (i.e. turbo charged) don’t come with VANOS.

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Stephen Cenatiempo May 12th, 2009 Link

I got this done last month with that latter part number. Been working fine over 2k miles. Hopefully I don’t get anymore problems. Thanks Gabe.

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rosvick May 12th, 2009 Link

I just checked my calendar, and it’s not April Fool’s Day….

I’m surprised BMW actually investigated the problem, and have finally come up with a fix! Excellent news!

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tony May 12th, 2009 Link

I believe this version of the fix has been available since late April. Hopefully time will tell that this is indeed the fix. If so I’m off to the dealer to place an order for a new R56.

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emtrey May 12th, 2009 Link

My car does not rattle, but occasionally sounds very LOUD at start up. 07 JCW stage 1…any thoughts –is this the same issue?

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Leo May 12th, 2009 Link

We had the first fix but that didn’t help. We are in line for the first pack that comes to the dealer.

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Gary May 12th, 2009 Link

Everyone should be a little cautious about guzzling the Kool-aid just yet. It remains to be seen if the real root cause has been ferreted out, especially since replacement of the tensioner alone did not seem to fix the problem in the more severe cases. That said, 10686850-13 does seem to be enjoying widespread success in its implementation and that’s a good thing.

Hopefully what we have is THE fix, and not just a really good band-aid. As Tony says, time will tell.

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David May 12th, 2009 Link

Good to see a fix for this issue, however this is not related to the throttle body/intake manifold icing in very cold temperatures, correct? The cold start rattle is unacceptable to be sure, but the icing issue causes serious driveability problems and can trigger limp-home modes that I don’t want to experience next winter on my February build ‘09 MCS.

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Kevin Bleicher May 12th, 2009 Link

The posting specifically mentions the R56. I’m pretty sure I have the same thing in my R55 Clubman. Apologies if I’m missing a detail or splitting hairs, but I assume the same applies since I have the same symptoms?

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hardingsan May 12th, 2009 Link

@Kevin Bleicher: yeah, as far as i know the 55 and 56 have the same internals in the engine dept. you should be golden…

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BMBLEB May 12th, 2009 Link

Has this been incorporated into new builds? If so, starting when?

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Chris Bamford May 12th, 2009 Link

I posted a parts list and notes about this a few months ago in here somewhere. The service centre did mine over Christmas but they had my car for 6 weeks while they waited for parts on worldwide back order. No issues since :)

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Gary May 12th, 2009 Link

@BMBLEB:

Circumstantial evidence suggests that the latest tensioner was incorporated into the R55, R56, and R57 production lines starting in March ‘09.

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Mike Roberts May 12th, 2009 Link

I don’t know if I have this or not. I think my paranoia has gotten the best of me. I need to look back at MFs earlier story with a video of an engine with the rattle.

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tony May 12th, 2009 Link

David, the icing issue you mention is supposed to be addressed with a new version of the intake manifold. Several threads over on NAM detail the latest changes which seem to be working, though a bit frankenstein to look at. There was a pic floating around of a modified intake (new hoses etc) that looked to correct the icing issue by relocating the PVC (i think) to after the throttle body. Not sure if that’s being included in new builds or implemneted with new parts.

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that.guy May 12th, 2009 Link

Gotta love those French engines.

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Gabe May 12th, 2009 Link

@that.guy: Unless you’re referring to the engine block the only part manufactured in France), the Prince family of engines in the MINI would be considered a German designed British built engine. It was designed by BMW from 2003-2006 and is built in Hamms Hall in the UK. The lead engineer was the same person who lead the inline six design for the E46 family of BMW 3 Series engines.

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Dr Obnxs May 12th, 2009 Link

While the new tensioner may be in the base cooper, the S has Vanos, and the non-S doesn’t. I haven’t really heard of this problem on the base Cooper engine….

Matt

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Mike Roberts May 12th, 2009 Link

I just listened to the videos from the previous post and after over 13k on my 2007, I don’t have it… yet!

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Tom May 12th, 2009 Link

So, gabe… question is when will they implement this into the production line or have they already? If so, when was the production date? How can we find this out? I am sure this is good news for existing owners, but what about prospective MINI owners and repeat clients? Thanks.

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nickminir56 May 12th, 2009 Link

Great news. Cold start issue really gave me some serious headache during the winter, and the first fix on my car didn’t get rid of the problem at all. First inline for service :).

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that.guy May 12th, 2009 Link

@Gabe: Sorry, meant to say: “Gotta love those German-designed engines assembled in the UK from French parts, as well as the identical German-designed engines assembled in France from French parts and used in Peugeots.”

My bad.

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Gabe May 12th, 2009 Link

@that.guy: I actually think that phrasing it like that makes your point more spot on.

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Vin Reddy May 12th, 2009 Link

My ‘07 MCS has a very nasty stumble, when I first start it up in the morning and pull away in first gear (it almost seems as though it is going to stall.) The problem goes away when the car is already warm. Is this part of the cold start issue

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JB May 12th, 2009 Link

Uh, wrong. The MC dose NOT have VANOS, the MCS does.

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James Irmiger May 12th, 2009 Link

I’ve been in several times for my Cold Start issue. The latest fix as per my 3/24/09 repair was:

“As per SIM #11 02 07 measured the slack in the timing chain and found it was greater than 68mm.

Replaced the timing chain and associated components as per SIM #11 02 07. Verified proper operation. Completed 11 33 04 39 00, 11 31 555″

Now whether this is the aforementioned fix, I have no idea. But what I can say is this, I now have a rattle even when hot! It sounds like it’s coming from the area of the VANOS unit itself. I will be scheduling another visit and we’ll see what happens this time ;(

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Torobud May 12th, 2009 Link

Gabe – I can assure you that the -12 measure doesn’t work as I had it performed here in Chicagoland and my car rattled right in the dealer parking lot that day…

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GregW May 12th, 2009 Link

You’ve got the Lemon law Stateside. I can’t help thinking that there is too much plastic and alloy componenty instead of the old cast iron of old time engines.

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Ryan T. May 12th, 2009 Link

I just called in to setup an appointment. However, they said I need to leave my car overnight since it happens on a cold start. Are they supposed to “pretend” they never heard of this issue?

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maximusGeek May 12th, 2009 Link

I had mine fixed last month. They requested I leave the car early (7am) and they kept it over night. I have not heard the sound since. I have heard it about once a month since 3 months after I brought it home (2 years) Ill have to check my work order when I get home for the part numbers.

For those of you that asked in the thread – mine was covered under warranty and if your not sure if you have this problem, you probably don’t have it. It’s a distinct and loud sound. It would be like someone broke into your garage and replaced your engine with a 1982 Mercedes Diesel. It runs that way for a 1-3 min, then goes back to normal. If you park in a garage where sound can bounce off of cars or walls next to you, its very obvious.

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Blaine May 12th, 2009 Link

@JB: Uh, wrong. The Cooper S has Single VANOS (Intake) and the Cooper has DOUBLE VANOS (Intake AND Exhaust).

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James Irmiger May 13th, 2009 Link

Here’s the actual parts list for this repair (as per my invoice):

(1) 11-31-7-598-956 CHAIN TENSIO MI (1) 11-31-7-534-251 GASKET RING BMMISA (1) 11-31-7-534-784 TIMING CHAIN MI (1) 11-31-7-568-241 GUIDE RAIL MI (1) 11-31-7-534-833 CHAIN TENSIO MI (1) 11-31-7-534-771 BEARING BOLT MI (2) 11-31-7-534-768 BEARING BOLT MI (1) 11-31-7-550-461 GASKET RING BMMISA (1) 11-31-7-546-697 SLIDE RAIL MI (1) 11-31-7-588-996 SPROCKET MI

There’s no mention of the VANOS unit. Sadly, I’m still clattering, but now it’s all the time. I’m almost positive the noise I’m hearing when warm is probably coming from the VANOS. I’ll be taking it in to get that checked out this next week.

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heyduard May 13th, 2009 Link

OT: IIRC, the justa cooper has valvetronic, not vanos. check the press releases that Gabe and crew have posted back in 06.

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Stefan May 13th, 2009 Link

“MINI Solves the R56 Cold Start Issue” is partly right. This puma measure 10686850-13 was already available a couple of months. (see Mini2.com) A lot of R56 S owners indeed found that this release fixed the problem. But there are still owners with this problem. I was rattle free for 2 months… but recently I got the problem back. Not the same frequency… but every morning my Mini sounds like a cement mixer.

Yesterday I contacted the spokes person at Mini NL, who could tell me that this wasn’t the latest fix yet! At the moment the are test done in Germany, UK and NL with a new tensioner. So story continues.

I also got the impression (because I told her that I found this Mini was a pile of crap) that we won’t be seing a similar engine in the new versions. Future version will probably have a BMW developped 3 / 4 cilinder.

Nevertheless… almost 1 1/2 year I have this issue. This gives a totally different meaning to: Nothing sticks like a Mini.

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iNomis May 13th, 2009 Link

I’m just happy to see that this is getting attention from MINI. Hopefully by the time my free service ends they’ll have a fix most everyone agrees resolves this. I just hope they don’t demand to replicate the problem before they will fix my car. It’s probably only happened six times in two years but I’d hate to get a worse problem after warranty. Also from my reading about this(here and elsewhere) it seems that slight damage has occurred in some cases and thus the need to replace more parts than previous fixes.

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Blainestang May 13th, 2009 Link

@heyduard: From Aug 4, 2006:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2006/08/04/07-cooper-to-get-effeciency-boost/#more-5034

“According to several sources, the 2007 120bhp Cooper is excepted to get around 40-mpg on the highway on using the US system. This efficiency this is primarily due to the new naturally aspirated Cooper engine which features BMW’s Valvetronic and Bi-Vanos technology. Valvetronic means that there is no need for a throttle butterfly control making the valve timing infinitely variable. Like-wise Bi-Vanos changed the valve opening time for infinitely variable camshaft adjustment for greater efficiency.”

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Malcolm May 13th, 2009 Link

Just book mine :) the only thing that is bugging me is that the have to remove engine from place :( :(

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MINIC May 13th, 2009 Link

Now we just need a recall.

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MCS Engine noise when cold - Page 128 - MINI2 - MINI Forum May 13th, 2009 Link

[...] Looks like the issue is offically solved!! Yay :) Looks like the issue is officially solved!! Yay MotoringFile Archive MINI Solves the R56 Cold Start Issue [...]

heyduard May 14th, 2009 Link

@Blainestang:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/12/14/new_mini_38_psa_engine_range_in_detail/

An ‘04 press release was my reference as it has detailed info on valvetrains. There are major differences in the valve train in n/a and turbo guise. only valvetronic is mentioned and only for the n/a engine. My understanding was vanos is a hi performance version of valvetronic in BMWland and thus only available on the turbo’ed engine.

in any case, we are probably splitting hairs on terms. :D And we can blame marketing for any confusion.

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Blainestang May 14th, 2009 Link

@heyduard: I think you’re right… there’s really a lack of clear information overall.

From what I can tell:

VANOS = Variable valve TIMING Valvetronic = Variable valve LIFT

According to the Prince Engine Press Release…

http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/document/presse_dossier/PK_PSA_BMW1103281940.pdf

… The Cooper has BOTH variable TIMING and LIFT on both intake and exhaust, but it only specifically mentions Valvetronic.

On the other hand, the Cooper S has JUST variable timing (phasing), and only on the Intake side, and it doesn’t specifically say VANOS there, either.

I’m not sure why VANOS is not mentioned, but it may be a marketing thing, like you said.

Based on the information from that source, it seems that:

Cooper = VANOS (Intake/Exhaust), Valvetronic (Intake/Exhaust)

Cooper S = VANOS (Intake)

If someone has another source that says differently, or has additional insight, I’d be interested to see it.

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akim May 14th, 2009 Link

LONG BEACH MINI in Long Beach, CA has denied there is any issue, says there is no puma measure, and says that this article is a scam… good job LONG BEACH MINI!!! anyone no a dealer in SoCal that will do the fix?

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MrB May 14th, 2009 Link

I have called up the dealership. They said that if it is not a recall, they need to confirm and make sure your car has that noise then they can order the parts and fix.

However, in this warm weather, i can hear the noise while i start up my car every morning….

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James Irmiger May 14th, 2009 Link

MrB, this is pretty standard dealer crap. I bitched out 1800ASKMINI for over an hour because my local dealer (SF) wouldn’t just fix it even though I had the problem verified, “fixed” twice already and had several recent videos confirming the problem. I had to end up going elsewhere and leave my car for a week so they could “reproduce” the sound, then fix it. At least the second dealer gave me a loaner.

Word to the wise who are just expecting to go in and get this done: No matter what they’ve done in the past, MINI’s stance is that each and every repair is treated as a separate entity. They still want to reproduce the sound before they fix anything.

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Stephen Warwick May 15th, 2009 Link

HI, To day my BMW local dealer has booked my john cooper works in for the 5th time and iam on fix number 14 so is this going to be the big one or not my JCW’s has only 3,000 miles ,I will wait and see the out come.

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hardingsan May 15th, 2009 Link

for what it’s worth, i had my car in to the dealership yesterday for a few minor issues (including this noise). got a call late yesterday saying they needed another day to work on it because they were having a belt tensioner shipped over from Germany. hopefully picking it up today, so we’ll see what it really was this afternoon…

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CraigE May 16th, 2009 Link

IIRC MINI refers to the combination of VANOS and Valvetronic on the Cooper as just Valvetronic, for simplicity. My understanding is that every BMW designed motor that has Valvetronic, also has VANOS. So it is redundant to refer to both when the motor has Valvetronic.

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Stephen Warwick May 16th, 2009 Link

Will a new fix Ref:10686850-14 stop the rattle, And will the car not sound like a diesel I am thinking that the engine is going to be the same after the latest fix. I am booked in at the garage 1st-2nd of June

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Adam Jun 30th, 2009 Link

Hi guys, I have sent my 07 cooper S in for the cold start issue. They only wanted to replace the timing chain. I am making sure they replace all of it. I even referenced the PuMA number 10686850-13. I will get back to you guys when they update me. Does anyone know what the PuMA is acronymed for? Or what the website is? Thanks.

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Stephen Warwick Jul 7th, 2009 Link

Hi Adam, I had the Puma Ref:10686850 – 14 to fix the rattle on my JCW 2008 model,But after the fix I then had a misfire at 5000 rpm, BMW only fitted a timing chain tensioner because that is all my car needed but I am in the UK wear the Mini is made, currently I have no noise to say about and this is the last BMW fix. The new misfire did get a new PUMA number and has now been sorted after 10 day. BMW list’s all problems and new ones and solutions ( PUMA list )

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