I’ve followed this site for a number of years (I’d never have decided on my R53 without your help), and can say that I’ve found it to be a generally honest and respectable place. This thread being a case in point.

Greg has every right to voice his opinions, although I suppose it’s up to Gabe to decide if he (or any of us) can do that here.

It does go to show that under the surface, an argument is usually about something else other than the point in question! I do agree with Greg about most things being about money and political power though. The rest is just ego and concience.

“Rights” include responsibilities to others. Driving a high-mileage car is one of the most effective things an individual can do to combat major global problems. It’s time to understand these issues are real and are not going away, to pull one’s head up out of the sand and to do one’s share.

What we need is fair pricing. Currently, gas and vehicle prices do not reflect their true impact in terms of road use, pollution, national security, and danger to others.

What you fail to realise is that the American illusion of freedom doesn’t sit with their perception of the government’s control. Their are more restrictive laws in the U.S. than here in the U.K. On this site people bleat about not being allowed to get hold of a diesel MINI; we’ve got them all over the roads here. My choice of car is only limited by what I can afford to buy and run. Here’s they don’t restrict directly, but rather just tax the hell out of you instead.

Grouping Europe as “Euros” just shows how limited your argument is. Since when has a German ever stood in line?

Here in the UK the government have put up duty on fuel, road tax on inefficient cars and introduced congestion charges, all in an effort to persuade us to drive smaller, cleaner cars.

Actually I think a lot of it is really just a means to make money, under the guise of being keen on green.

However, the biggest worry and outcry here is that it’s costing us more to run a car. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone protest about their rights to drive a V8 (unless it’s for a specific task). Just owning a big engined car costs more if I drive it 1 mile a day, than having a smaller car that I drive 10,000 miles a month because of the road tax.

In all this, you don’t hear us complain about “rights to destroy the environment”. Generally I think we understand that SOMETHING needs to be done, and are willing to give up a bit of freedom to achieve this.

Controversial bit here :- What made America great wasn’t anything more than vast resources that have made the county so wealthy ( Just like Britain gathering wealth of the old empire ). These resources have been squandered to such an extent that it’s now changing the way you’ve got to live.

I’m not an eco-warrior, not anti-American and certainly not anti-car. What I am is pro-common sense. All areas of motor transport efficiency need addressing, and we’ve got to start someone.

Heaven help us if we all start waving flags and take the “rights over reason” approach.

I find that those people who yell the loudest usually know the least. Their responses, sadly, follow the knee-jerk mentality of the uninformed and, facing a compelling argument, are wont to go into hysterical over-explanations and backpedalling rather than concede the point regardless of how valid it may be.

One note for the good DR (not an argument mind you), the 10th amendment is one of the most loosely interpreted amendments in the constitution and since you quote it so vociferously, the “State” it refers to is the State-level Government. It’s not the Feds, but it’s still government. Again, there is some great reading out there on the roles of government as well as complete transcriptions of the Constitution and it’s amendments if you choose to look. Some of the interpretations can be a bit too liberal or conservative, but if you keep an open mind, you’ll find out that things aren’t quite as bad as you might think.

Good luck with the reading – Moderately James

Matt

Pretty soon it will be “Doritos can only have 3 grams of fat vs 7 because we know whats good for you”. So your choice of what you can enjoy is taken from you. Think I’m nuts? How many cities ( i.e.NYC) have outlawed trans fat in restaraunts because the government decided it wasn’t good for you?

And soon it will be “sorry Paul, we can’t perform this proceedure for your cancer because the government won’t pay us for it as they think it’s too expensive” Think I’m crazy? Why do Canadians/Euros come to the USA for treatment instead of using their countries universal health care?

This will not stop at cars people. People who are jealous of Hummer owners and think this is swell are just the types that creeping socialism preys on. And they will using complete BS like “climate change”(notice no more global warming?) to manipulate the gulible.

The constitution was drawn as to define the full extent of power of the federal government. It defined limits, not a starting point! since you purport to have “paid attention” you may remember this part “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” If its not in the constitution, its not the governments role. period! I certainly wish that any new power the feds wish to exert must be ratified by 3/4ths of the states, that was the founders intent….They belived in majority rule not minority rule! Sadly, the constitution is routinely ignored by legislators and beuraucrats (who are apointed not elected!)within federal agencies with the delegated power to legislate through regulation. These abuses of power, when challenged (and meanwhile enforced) may ultimately find thier way to the supreme court where activist judges, who are politicaly appointed, DO NOT judge on the SOLE basis of the constitution, rather than using the constitution as the sole authority, some justices believing that the constitution changes over time even without a single word on paper being altered, some even using european law to decide. HAVE changed the constitution!

The size and authority of the government is the bold living proof that the constitution may not have been physicaly altered much…but change it has! Its a shame that more people don’t pay that much attention and its offensive when people are willing to ignore it just to force thier lifestyle of economy and minimalism upon others.

No… that would be the R53. The R60s fuel efficiency is still unknown. If it is diesel, it will have as good or better fuel efficiency than any petrol MINI.