MF Exclusive: R56 Based Diesels Not Coming to the US Market

Drill Jul 27th, 2009 Link

I vote they save the $$$ of Federalizing another engine by just dropping the BMW 3L TT Diesel into a “slightly” modified MINI Chassis ;-)

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JonPD Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Pretty sure by the time BMW/Mini gets there act together on this the US market is going to have plenty of other options of small diesels. I still mark this up to somewhat short sighted vision at BMW/Mini. I honestly don’t think it took much deep though during the time frame for the evolution of the R56 to realize that a oil burner would be sought after due to a spike in gas prices. I honestly think they believe the mileage in the standard cars is “good enough” for the US market. While I accept the mileage on the R56 is good, its still a long ways from being that of the diesel.

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Timothy Jul 27th, 2009 Link

MINI is going to get a lot of competition in its biggest market: the Fiat 500 (at surviving Chrysler dealers!), the Toyota (Scion) iQ, the Nissan Cube, the Ford Fiesta, the (new) Honda Insight, and others. Lack of diesel is the least of MINI’s worries.

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Nathaniel Salzman Jul 27th, 2009 Link

That really is too bad.

Gabe, do you get a sense that were we seeing gas prices like we were last year that the Diesel would have had a better chance coming to the US, or are the economics just THAT daunting? Profits notwithstanding, it seems like there’s some market there to be gained — looking at the boom of Jetta TDi sales — and I can’t help but wonder if it would be worth it to MINI to just break even for the sake of establishing itself in this infant diesel market. The way thing are going, it’s almost like we’ll see viable electric cars in this market before we’ll see any of Europe’s spectacular diesels. When I saw Episode 4 of the last season of Top Gear I was just kind of sick about how none of these magnificently efficient cars were available here in the states.

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Fredric Haberer Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Instead of campaigning for MINI import its diesel, how about campaigning for US regulators to fix their regulations? There are lots of strong opinions on this forum. Put them to work where they will do some good. If fuel economy is really a government priority, there should be people willing to listen.

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Axel Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Ok it is FINAL then, the DIESELS will NOT come overhere, seems like no brainer to me , VOLKSWAGEN can you hear me, HERE I COME to BUY your diesel, now I might be looking for the JETTA or Golf Diesel. Sorry MINi you screwed up you lost a Mini owner for a second time. ADIOS amigo!!!

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Gabe Jul 27th, 2009 Link

@JonPD: They’ve been working on this since before the R56 was out.

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that.guy Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Yay!

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Mark Jul 27th, 2009 Link

This is very disappointing, especially since the diesel is reportedly MINI’s greenest engine. As Mr. Haberer points out, the problem is the regulations, or more correctly, the difference between how Europe & the USA measure emissions. We need to pressure our legislators to get on the same regulatory page as the europeans regarding emissions in order to see all of these excellent motors come to our shores sooner rather than later. Cut the red tape now EPA!

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Wolfgang Gullich Jul 27th, 2009 Link

This is stupid…I was really looking forward to the R60 possibly having a diesel, but now I’ll have to settle for the NA gas engine to get decent mileage… MINI better wake up and see the potential sales they’re losing to VW…and we all know BMW has a history of hating what VW does…

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Beavers Jul 27th, 2009 Link

I was really looking forward to the R60 possibly having a diesel, but now I’ll have to settle for the NA gas engine to get decent mileage

As I read the article, Gabe is specifically noting “the R56 generation of MINIs.” Does this news also apply to the R60? Perhaps this distinction is intentional, or perhaps I am just clinging too tightly to hope.

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scotteast Jul 27th, 2009 Link

There’s a very interesting article in Automobile Magazine this month suggesting that BMW will need to merge with a larger automaker at some point in the future to survive. This article points out that with total worldwide production of 1.4 million cars per year, BMW just isn’t large enough. The inability to prepare a MINI diesel for the US may be a symptom of this, especially compared to VW who has been selling diesels here for years and has worldwide sales of 6.2 million units.

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Axel Jul 27th, 2009 Link

The latest news is that there is a POSSIBLE Porsche-VW merger!!!!

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nervous Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Axel, I thought you were gone?

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Bob Hayhurst Jul 27th, 2009 Link

…While I find this news that the diesal engine is not destined for the US market disappointing, it is not a surprise nor unexpected. I don’t recall reading anywhere on this site that it was anything but a remote possibility. It certainly seems like a missed opportunity by BMW/MINI but as Gabe explained the Euro’s just didn’t add up.

I do like the picture selection to highlight the article. The MINI D looks so forlorn; looking over the ocean westward… wondering if it will have a home in America… When alas, it’s dreams are crushed under the hob nailed boot of western capitalisim…

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Dr Obnxs Jul 27th, 2009 Link

What many here don’t know is that the European emissions standards are going to get more strict on particulates, and that they will catch up with US standards. The idea of relaxing US standards to allow for admission of current european engines is a non-starter. All the european engines will be changing to meet the coming EU standards.

In some of the engineering journals I read some engineers opine that the small diesel may well be dead because of the cost of exhaust treatment required to pass the upcoming standards just doesn’t make sense for small, inexpensive cars. This remains to be seen, but the notion that you can just relax the particle and NOx requirements and magically have all the nifty European cars here is just nonsense.

Also, in Europe, the increased tax for gas relative to diesel makes the payback time for the higher cost products much shorter. Here, there is no government backed bias to favor diesel.

Good or bad, that’s just the way it is.

Matt

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Captain Jul 27th, 2009 Link

If my research is correct, the Jetta TDi is not that thrilling or compelling at 0-60 in 8.4 sec. You can get virtually the same fuel economy/performance from a lower HP gasoline engine. The difference in fuel economy from a just-a-cooper compared to a Jetta TDi is not significant enough to make me want to defect. Fair disclosure: I drive a S and more than willing to forgo some MPG for the extra performance/handling. I also do not see myself paying a premium just to have a diesel unless the MPG were significantly better (to offset such costs) AND the fun to drive factor remained intact. I believe MINI made the right decision since they are in middle of the R56 production life.

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Michael Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Something smells rotten in Denmark, or wherever they make BMW diesels and MINI diesels – I cannot believe it will take that many engineering years to solve the problem – There has to be something else here we are not seeing or not being told about.

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David Jul 27th, 2009 Link

No real surprise here… BMW does not bring the 2.0 liter twin turbo diesel found in European 1 and 3 series models, why would they bring the diesel MINI engine? Imagine a 123d with nearly 200 hp and 300 ft. lbs. torque, all whilst returning miserly fuel economy…

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JonPD Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Gabe I know they have been working on this a long while. What I was saying is that during the evolution of the R56 D that you would think Mini would have awoke to the idea of developing a platform that would work in the US as well. Their reason for not doing it now is the large expenditure of funds to modify the current car to work in the US would have been solved. This leaves me feeling that BMW/Mini has more interest in making a less fuel efficient car R60 than bringing a high efficiency car to what is geographically speaking and total sales one of the biggest markets.

Day by day I continue to think that both BMW and Mini needs some serious house cleaning at the very top.

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Gabe Jul 27th, 2009 Link

@JonPD: It has nothing to do with when they started working on this. It has to do with the car having an engine exclusive to a model that may only sell 2000-3000 units a year couple with an enormous cost to federalize any engine sold in the US.

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Aaron Woolsey Jul 27th, 2009 Link

This is simply poor long-term planning on BMW’s part. Their inability to stay ahead of the game on this and other issues is an Achilles heel for the company. I fear BMW’s got to merge with another car company because while continuing to win awards on engine design, they are not really introducing novel concepts. They’ve come late and reluctant to the whole hybrid/electric trend, they had their heads in the sand over diesel in the US for so long and now they’ve missed the boat.

Perhaps MINI needs a new mission statement.

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Gabe Jul 27th, 2009 Link

This is stupid…I was really looking forward to the R60 possibly having a diesel, but now I’ll have to settle for the NA gas engine to get decent mileage… MINI better wake up and see the potential sales they’re losing to VW…and we all know BMW has a history of hating what VW does…

…This report is specific to the Cooper D that is available as an R55 or R56. We’ve reported on the Cooper S D and even broke last year that an R60 based diesel could see the US market eventually. Those plans are still unfolding.

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Tex Jul 27th, 2009 Link

BMW finally realized that the public won’t buy it – very simple.

The new BMW diesels in the USA have been a disaster from a sales perspective. BMW USA just recently put a $4500 rebate on the oil burners to unload them.

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Evan Jul 27th, 2009 Link

I want to see BMW/MINI remain independent. It’s always been a strong company and overall has made wise decisions to keep itself viable. VW Group isn’t as amazingly healthy as everyone thinks it is. Plus they’re known for spotty reliability here in the states. Economies of scale simply don’t make the diesel possible for our shores- our regulators and past history with horrific diesel cars is what keeps them from really taking off. As said above, the Euro standards are moving closer to the USA for nitrogen, and it looks like the USA will be moving closer to the Euro standards for carbon. This makes diesel cars very challenging. The standard petrol engines are being downsized and blown to make do, and will probably hold their own for quite sometime. Hybrids are a niche stepping stone and not worth the tech, expense, nor weight for the minimal benefit of mileage and major loss of drivability.

It’s too bad the Dooper won’t be here, but not suprising in any way at all.

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Glenn Austin Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Well if the MINI Diesel isn’t going to happen what about the MINI One or an entry level MINI? With all the mentioned new competition coming out soon MINI may need to create a more budget friendly MINI. I’ve got 2 more years with my Honda and then it’s MINI time so I hope there is something out by then.

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JonPD Jul 27th, 2009 Link

Coming from a multinational manufacturing back ground Gabe I do understand economies of scale. I also know that BMW watches the increasing environmental standards closely. I however that if they would have built the R56 D as a federalized product that it would have eaten more than a little of the Prius market as the Mini D is more car than that hung of garbage ever will be. Mini had the chance to get their product to market along with VW. Instead they are allowing VW to live in the crucible of the US to evolve their product. Something that Mini will still be actively doing for the next many years after this gets to market.

Once again its my main complaint against BMW/Mini lately. Instead of seeing a high efficiency car in the US we get a lower efficiency micro SUV. heh

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Scarlett O'MINI Jul 28th, 2009 Link

No diesel for US, but we get the SUV. Great…not.

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-=gRaY rAvEn=- Jul 28th, 2009 Link

The reason for the American Requirments is not so much emissions as it is keep the price of diesel fuel from rising.

Unkown to many, the USA has an iron clad agreement with the UK which is, The exportion of as much diesel fuel as possible, and in return, the UK is to export as much gasoline as possible.

Reason is that we – America – cannot produce enough gasoline here due to lack of any gasoline refineries being built due to environmentalist lobby in Washington, D.C.

So we need to seek other sources for our fuel. Hence, there is only so much diesel fuel here to go around for our needs such as farming, trucking and constuction vehicles.

If there was a flood of automobiles equipped with diesel engines sold here, the cost of diesel fuel would go up comensurate with the demand, and the trickle down issues of that would be higher costs for everything, from the food we eat to the packages delivered to your home.

So American standards are set sooooo strict to keep them out.

It’s the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about, but merely talks around………..

Motor Safe, Dave

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C4 Jul 28th, 2009 Link

When you spend all your money, resources and time developing a mildly mediocre SUV, sure you will eventually run out of will to bring over and offer the diesel variants. MINI lost a golden opportunity and from now on they will be late to the diesel party in North America no matter what.

Amazing how this company has changed in 8 years. Way back in 2001, BMW put their heads under the guillotine so MINI could launch, making next to nothing profit on each and every single car built. Today, they have come up with all sorts of lame excuses aimed at covering up their lack of planning and sheer greed (Not enough profit, BAH!) to make up excuses for not having diesels here.

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Brian Jul 28th, 2009 Link

Anybody know when the r56 mid-cycle refresh is going to be shown to the public?

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Gabe Jul 28th, 2009 Link

@Brian: All you need to know about the upcoming refresh we reported a few weeks back.

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Brian Jul 28th, 2009 Link

Aww march 2010….. I’ll keep saving then. I hope we get a few anonymous pictures before that (wink).

Thanks Gabe.

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CraigE Jul 28th, 2009 Link

When you spend all your money, resources and time developing a mildly mediocre SUV, sure you will eventually run out of will to bring over and offer the diesel variants. MINI lost a golden opportunity and from now on they will be late to the diesel party in North America no matter what.

Wow! I think that’s the most complimentary thing you’ve said about the R60.

The problem is that to break even, I expect that MINI would have to charge a large premium over the petrol Cooper. Does it make sense to spend $5000 more on a Cooper D in order to save 10-20% on your fuel economy? If both diesel and gasoline are at $4.00/gallon that equates to a difference of $300 in fuel costs over 15,000 miles at 40 MPG (common highway mileage) for the Cooper and 50 MPG for the Cooper D. That $5000 premium will take over $16 years to pay off. Even if the Cooper D gets 60 MPG on the highway the difference in fuel cost is $500 which still takes 10 years to break even.

So unless there is a huge difference in pricing and/or economy between petrol and diesel fuel the cost is not justifiable for most people.

Granted, there are a few people who drive huge distances that may benefit. For example using the same numbers as before 40 mpg vs. 60 mpg at 50,000 miles/year the savings at $4.00/gallon would be $1668/year so the $5000 price differential is paid off at 3 years and 150,000 miles.

If you look at this from the European perspective it makes more sense. At $10.00/gallon with 15,000 miles/year the savings grows from $500 to $1250/year. Then you add in the difference in taxes since they tax based on things like CO2 emissions.

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REPORT: No R56-based Mini diesels bound for U.S. » Hybrid News Jul 29th, 2009 Link

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Ian F Jul 29th, 2009 Link

None of this surprises me… especially the ignorant whining… just proves that many of you refuse to pay attention to the economics of running a car business.

If you want a diesel so freakin’ bad… buy one of mine. I’m about sick of owning diesels… it really is not all it’s cracked up to be.

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Axel Jul 29th, 2009 Link

IAN F whats wrong that your are getting rid of your diesel can you explain to us the issue?

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Axel Jul 29th, 2009 Link

Oh by the way NERVOUS I never left because my MCS has been great to me, Im frustrated because the so called emmissions BS but meanwhile there literally thousands of DIESEL trucks that do not meet the so called emission criteria so much for that. Anyway, once a mini owner, you will look at others as BASTARD CHILDS!! lol

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REPORT: No R56-based Mini diesels bound for U.S. Aug 1st, 2009 Link

[...] [Source: MotoringFile] [...]

MotoringFile » Archive » MINI E vs the MINI D – Which Would You Rather See? Nov 17th, 2009 Link

[...] appears that not only has the MINI Cooper D (in hatch form) been shelved for the US market, but it would now seem the a diesel Countryman has been as well. Costs are the big issue but beyond [...]