Comments on: How to Save JCW

By: Mike

Mike — Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:21:10 +0000

To say that “BMW doesn’t have the money” to develop and sell a JCW version is absurd. Aston Martin has been competing at LeMans for years, with a company a fraction of the size of BMW. Lotus is producing awesome cars on a tiny budget. It’s about priorities. BMW wants to ride on the laurels of the vintage Cooper name, without playing the game. The game is RACING competitively. The JCW shouldn’t be for everyone. Those that want to drive a car for it’s cache, with fancy graphics, etc. should not be the one’s that buy a JCW. The JCW should be about performance. The original Cooper S cars weren’t about decals or scoops. The were fast and won races.

By: hemisedan

hemisedan — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:45:58 +0000

I wouldn’t say that the US prices are so rediculously low when you first consider that you get the JCW Aero package, have recaro seats and I believe you get the Sport suspension as well. Then you have the VAT, which our wonderful president thinks that we need to, so we aren’t so far behind you in that.

By: Owen

Owen — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:47:42 +0000

One thing to also bear in mind is that for some reason the American market gets MINIs at a ridiculously low price compared to Europe. If you build the same two cars on the USA configurator and the UK, the UK one is vastly more expensive. Even though the shipping costs are dramatically lower. So this raises two questions?

Is MINI subsidising the price in America to get market share? Or is MINI screwing European owners to the wall?

By: PretzelBurner

PretzelBurner — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 17:45:38 +0000

I’ll elaborate a little on what people already have stated. I think there are 2 big issues preventing a true “M class” JCW. The first is that it would cost too much to build this “M” car and second, there are more attractive alternatives at the current price point and even more alternatives beyond this one. Maybe the next platform will contain the DNA for a more competitive and realistic performer but unless the cost comes more into focus it will never bring in the interest that will make it profitable. I for one, own an 09 JCW and at a 32k price tag, it was borderline worth it. Had I been a little less smitten with the Cooper’s driving experience, I would not have purchased this car (I really struggled with the purchase decision, gas prices finally influencing my decision). 33k+, no way I would have purchased it. To it’s credit however, it gets great gas mileage, puts a smile on my face as I zip around traffic and it is different and unique from all the other offerings out there. It didn’t have to be the fastest, just the fastest mini available at the time. As a possible solution for all you wishers, order a stripped JCW (or buy a used one), gut it, put it on a diet, tune it and put every go-fast part available…you should have a pretty interesting performer at a good price…Happy motoring.

By: Brandon Corie

Brandon Corie — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 16:22:56 +0000

I have a 09 jcw. Love the car but I think it’s my last mini. I’ve owned three. The jcw even with my rmw tune just doesn’t do it for me. I want more power and better handling for the money I spent. A 300 hp jcw gp that comes in around 2200 pounds and can pull more gs than anything on the roads . And stop jacking with the ecu s on these cars so we can tune them easier . The 135 is looking better to me. The jcw mpgs aren’t that great with ethanol blended fuels. And the carbon build up in the intake is just wrong. Hell the volve c30 starts at 227hp and the aftermarket can easily get you 300 hp. If ford gets off there butts and brings the rs over here I’m gone mini. Gone….. And I’m a mini die hard . I have the mini flag in my garage . I love minis so do something mini. Bring us a mini super car . I want a car that the jerk in my rear view mirror riding my tail because I’m in a mini gets very small very fast. And when I let him catch up to me he can’t believe that lil thing is that fast.

By: BilboBaggins

BilboBaggins — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:06:28 +0000

As much as I love my 2006 MCS the BMW 135i and WRX Sti Special Edition look a lot better than a JCW Cooper S as a future purchase.

Sorry, MINI

By: Chris Harte

Chris Harte — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 15:22:01 +0000

Removing the radio, air conditioning and sound deadening materials sounds much cheaper by way of the purchaser than to order it that way from Mini. Crank windows would be pretty cool, but in all reality it would be very hard to sell less car for more money, unless your dropping close to six figures on it (Porsche for example), where you are that much of a die-hard for performance.

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 02:11:29 +0000

I own a 2009 JCW and enjoy it very much, BUT I think the answer to making the JCW a truly great car, upholding the tradition of Cooper, Chapman, and Abarth is quite simple: BMW needs to RACE it against Subaru and other top WRC competitors and WIN. Carbon fiber, improved brake cooling, more horsepower, better aerodynamics, etc., will be mandatory adaptations. The JCW version does not really need to be profitable. Most people will still buy Coopers or S models. The JCW helps sell the standard MINI models by creating an image of the awesome underdog. The roadgoing JCW version should be well appointed, fast, and priced competitively, the flagship for MINI. I can envision a carbon fiber 1.8 liter, 300 BHP JCW with AWD. Maybe someday…

By: jon

jon — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:31:09 +0000

Actually I think the JCW versions of the Mini should be more like an Integra type-r; light weight no holds barred sports cars. The current JCWs just don’t make any sense to me; they have no idea what they want to be and the can run up to $40K! Yikes. I can think of many more cars that I would rather have at $35-$40K.

By: BSUCardinalfan

BSUCardinalfan — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:35:31 +0000

the other thing, unfortuneately, is that to build that brand image, the JCW needs to be out there winning car magazine comparos against the competition. that's why the aero kit and suspension need to be standard, as well as the better steering wheel and a few other cosmetic enhancements.

sending a plus $30k JCW into that kind of competition when it looks (and pretty much drives) just like a $23000 cooper S is a losing proposition. it needs to be the best handling, most solid, enthusiast-oriented car of the bunch. make it significantly better in every way than a cooper S.

just like in the mini vs. porche challenge, I think part of the reason that MINI used an S instead of a JCW is that as it comes off the showroom, a JCW isn't significantly (if at all) quicker around an autocross than an S, especially if the S has a limited slip diff, yet costs a LOT more.

By: Sideways Eh!

Sideways Eh! — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:34:44 +0000

I think the cost argument is the wrong debate here… IMO it is the desirability of WANTING a JCW!!! It is that unabated LUST that one feels when they pass one on the highway that BMW must work on…Unless you know what to look for a JCW is just another MINI. MINI has to make people NEED the JCW…I can’t afford any ///M product, but it’s a brand people lust after…This is what JCW needs to create in the minds of the buying public. The only cure for this is TIME…now that BMW has control over the JCW name I am sure they will cultivate a truly phenomenal sub-brand worthy of the surfboard. Unfortunately this is not going to happen any time soon.

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:20:03 +0000

As much as the current JCW is cool, I’d really like to see them apply the JCW “ethos” across the range, including the base Cooper. Frankly, I don’t need 200hp in a car the size of my MINI, but I’d really dig one with some wider fenders, maybe some 16×8′s, and a really “dialed-in” suspension. There are other ways to make a car fast besides more horsepower…a tenant that both John Cooper and Colin Chapman proved over and over again…and I’d like to see the folks at MINI give it a shot!

By: Blainestang

Blainestang — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 04:31:21 +0000

Greg,

The Cooper is one of the "Hotter models". In Europe, there is a MINI One and, in some cases, a MINI First below the Cooper. MINI simply didn't think that those would sell in the US with <100hp, so they just brought the Cooper. Would you expect them to rename the Euro "Cooper" to something else here in the states?

By: Greg W

Greg W — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 02:30:05 +0000

I too agree Gabe. The John Cooper brand has been watered down with too many production models. A bit like saying a car is limited edition when unlimited in production. I never liked the idea of calling the main model Cooper. This should have been reserved for the genuine Cooper “hotter models”. The ordinary MINI One, maybe a MINI Two or MINI City would have sufficed for volume models. Of course now BMW own JCW they can do anything they want with the brand name. What is this about a “Broadspeed” model ? That was never an official Mini model but a tuning outfit in competition to Cooper. Then there is the AC SChnitzer MINI stuff. Time to have a sit down, rest, a cup of tea and rethink the whole darn thing in my opinion.

By: KevinR

KevinR — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:55:21 +0000

Engineering the recaros and then bringing them into the factory pipeline costs money. That would have to be passed onto the consumer in the form of a very expensive seat.

VW was able to do this very thing for limited edition GTIs back in 2003-2004, so it's not like it's completely foreign territory for Recaro.

Whenever I read comments on the internet about a "stripped down, limited edition, performance model" that people swear would sell like hotcakes, I am reminded of the E36 M3 Lightweight that you could find brand new and unsold on dealer lots two model years later. Don't confuse the desires of fans with those of the general buying public.

A friend is a small independent dealer. In February/March of this year he had in his inventory a 2009 JCW car with 7K miles. It had the aero kit, 18" wheels and several unique options. He could not get anyone to come anywhere near it and ended up letting it go for $24K just to get it off his books.

For whatever reason, the JCW brand doesn't connect with many people outside of the MINI faithful.

By: jpd

jpd — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:35:10 +0000

Went to the MINI store in May to buy a JCW 2010. I found two. The first was pretty basic at $36K the other at $44K was loaded. I walked away with a 2011 BMW 135 at $40K. The other major difference for me was the torque steer in the JCW that killed it for me. The 135 one series is one of the most under appreciated cars in the BMW lineup. The one series barely exceeds 800 sales a month.

By: Gerarddm

Gerarddm — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:33:47 +0000

POWER.

You don't need to spend umpteen thousands of dollars to get more oomph. Just ask Jan.

That and make the suspension standard, throw in some more colors, and get going performance wise.

The market has shown that devotees will spend anything to get a more powerful, personalized car. All MINI has to do is to facilitate that, direct from the factory. What's so hard to understand?

By: Versus

Versus — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 23:30:55 +0000

I think the JCW taking a page out of the R32′s book would be a nice step forward. Granted MINI, or maybe I should say BMW, doesn’t have the financing like VW does based on sheer sales volume, I think with Prodrive & the Countryman coming together an AWD JCW wouldn’t be a stretch. Please, just spread the love between the twins and the hatch.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 23:21:28 +0000

This (Recaros) certainly cannot cost â€œenormous amounts of moneyâ€ to incorporate.

A new paint option costs 250,000 just to set it up. Engineering the recaros and then bringing them into the factory pipeline costs money. That would have to be passed onto the consumer in the form of a very expensive seat.

By: LTL M CPE

LTL M CPE — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:08:18 +0000

This is a great article. As a two MINI and an M coupe owner I get it. The JCW in current format is no M version MINI. Going in that direction would be a way to go, but as many have mentioned need to keep costs in line. Hoping the coupster does this, but I'm doubtful at this point.

Jim