Host Vicki Butler-Henderson from Britain’s other car show gives us her video two cents on MINI’s new Countryman. In short, she praises the car for its practicality, then derides it for not being a Jeep off-tarmac. While she’s certainly entitled to her opinion, I have some problems with this video.
[Important context] Yesterday I spent an hour behind the wheel of a Countryman All4 zipping around the slippery, snow-laden streets of Minneapolis. I’ll have a more in-depth review soon, but for this video at least, I can bring some real-world perspective to her oddly structured criticisms.
First off, she compares the Countryman size-wise to the original Mini. While entertaining, this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison. Once she gets around to comparing size to the current R56, she describes it as “dwarfing” but what we see with our own eyes doesn’t really line up to her hyperbole. A Hummer H2 would “dwarf” a MINI. The Countryman is bigger, obviously, and of course it is. It’s a 4-door after all. Having seen the Countryman in person yesterday, it’s simply not a big car. It’s basically a slightly taller, slightly wider Clubman. It’s hardly bigger than the current MINI when you see it in person. It’s strange how she seems to complain about its larger size, yet praises it for its comfortable interior space and added practicality.
Then, Vicki jumps straight from snowboard stowage capability to off-road performance. She describes the ride as stiff and rough while piling over deep potholes and other off-road uneven bits. I’m sure it is. What road car would be comfortable on that terrain? But go deeper. What’s missing here? Any actual description, good, bad or otherwise of the car’s character on the street — its actual habitat. In my opinion, this makes her criticism incomplete at best, and skewed at worst.
Let me clarify: I don’t mind her being critical of the car. It’s no skin off my nose if she hates it. To each her own. What bothers me is that it’s a criticism of the car’s poor performance at something it’s never claimed to be good at. This is a classic rhetorical fallacy — a straw man argument. The Countryman is not a Subaru Outback. It’s not a Jeep Wrangler. It’s a 4-door MINI with an optional AWD system for improved traction. Is All4 designed for Jeep trails? Of course not. Neither is X-drive on a BMW 325 or Quatro on any of Audi’s road cars. Let’s be honest. These systems are basically designed for rain and snow (stay tuned for our review of the Countryman on snow). Like before, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison. MINI has only ever described the Countryman All4 as a “soft roader”, and as such, Vicki’s off-road performance criticism doesn’t hold water. Why not also knock it for being unable to fly, or run on oatmeal? Was she simply grasping for something to be critical about?
I would be very interested to hear her complete thoughts on the Countryman as a road car. This is sadly absent from this review. Like the Countryman or not, this kind of incomplete reporting and rhetorical fallacy doesn’t serve anyone well. Here’s hoping Top Gear takes a crack at it. Even if they hate it, I think they’ll be a bit more honest about it.
<p>I fully agree. I watched the video and thought it ended rather suddenly. You could hardly call that a review; it’s was more like ‘musings on a Mini’. I want to know how rough the ride is on the streets not on a test track for Hummers.</p>
<p>Did she turn off traction control? Not saying the Countryman will be a serious off-roader, but I think without the computer, it could have made its way up that hill, at least with a running start. My wife’s Countryman All4 should be delivered next week, but we have a 535xit (manual trans), and I have had problems on hills in the snow, but kill the DSC and floor the accelerator and it will power up any hill I have encountered, but the 428lbs feet of torque Dinan claims it has might have something to do with that.</p>
<p>I think the video was fine and very informative and covered the bases enough to get a flavor for the car. Maybe because I am biased and the video confirmed my expectations. While not in-depth, the statement about not being quite as charming on-road as the 2 door mini matches logic of what more mass and higher center of gravity will do, so the focus on what it can’t do offroad, was informative. Snow and ice would have been a welcome addition to the video but hard to do when the snow does not cooperate. I point that Mini focused more on on-road handling came through loud and clear and was fair. Maybe mini needs a soft suspension offroad version for those people living on rough roads. Of course then the video would focus on the poor on-road performance.</p>
<p>I agree, pretty shoddy review.. however it did show the countryman running around that waterlogged muddy road pretty darn well.</p>
<p>It didn’t look as if they actually TRIED to get up the hill.</p>
<p>Lame!! Chris Harris – we need you!</p>
<p>Lets face it, that was a bloody awful review!</p>
<p>But then again, it is Fifth Gear! It’s been laughably bad for years – in my opinion they should stop trying to impersonate TG and get on with thorough ‘real world’ car reviews.</p>
<p>Viewers are left none the wiser what the Countryman is like – what a complete waste of time!</p>
<p>Fifth Gear is an awful programme. A couple of years ago they did a comparision of the MINI Cooper and Cooper D. What criteria did they use? Initial acceleration and how is sounds! Hopeless.</p>
<p>You have to press on the gas going up the hill not tap the gas till is almost stalls , you can hear that on the video on the end. Too short of a review for such a big MINI.</p>
<p>Just to let you know my clubman does run on oatmeal… I’ve said too much!</p>
<p>Would lay money down that Top Gear will treat it better but betting they will still not be huge fans.</p>
<p>All the while MINI has distracted itself from its prime product yet another list of hot hatches that MINI misses.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/hot-hatch-power-2010-12-09" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/hot-hatch-power-2010-12-09</a></p>
<p>If you didn’t like what 5th gear said, i recommend you unload all fire arms in your house when top gear finally gets done with the review as they will rip that car to shreds.</p>
<p>I fell in love with the countryman the minute i saw it while i recall most posts on autoblog asked “why mini?” The paceman looks even better but the countryman will outsell all mini’s because of the “good” of being practical.</p>
<p>A typically detailed in depth road test by Fifth Gear!…………….It’s bigger than a MINI hatch, has got firm suspension and isn’t a Land Rover.</p>
<blockquote>If you didn’t like what 5th gear said, i recommend you unload all fire arms in your house when top gear finally gets done with the review as they will rip that car to shreds.</blockquote>
<p>As I said in the post, I’m not bothered that she’s criticizing the Countryman. I’m bothered because she’s not doing it honestly. <em>Top Gear</em> likely won’t like it either, but I’d wager they’ll dislike it for the actual car, rather than invented criteria that no road car could ever live up to.</p>
<p>Were the car genuinely awful, I wouldn’t mind hearing about it. But having driven it myself, I know that it’s not. So when <em>Fifth Gear</em> starts inventing things to be critical about, I’m going to speak up about it.</p>
<p>Still Nathaniel it does not matter if it comes from Fifth Gear, Top Gear, Autoblog, Bimmerfile, or you directly each are just giving their personal view on the car. As long as you stick with facts and figures about hp and dimensions its fact. However when it comes to perception of what the vehicle stands for its like trying to criticize somebody for their opinion about steering feel or design language. I really have never gotten into Fifth Gear as the program just does not resonate with me personally I tend to think your kickback against Fifth Gear for the opinion they expressed to me is like telling somebody else their opinion of driving feel is wrong.</p>
<p>Guess just me but I tend to believe one opinion is not better than another. I am glad your a MINI fan as you help with MF but that does not mean that others opinions are not valid. imo</p>
<p>As I keep saying, JonPD, I’m not objecting to her opinion. I’m simply pointing out flaws in her rhetoric.</p>
<p>Validation of ones opinion is not really rhetoric, rather its just the building of the information they use to come to a conclusion. Either way think that they could have done a much better job with the review but as stated not exactly a fan of the show so not sure if I care.</p>
<p>I don’t get what all the complaining is about. It’s a very, very short peice, and as such can’t cover everything. The basic points come through: More space and utility, but that comes at a price of some of the driving dynamic that is the typical MINI sweet spot. Sure the hill climb test was more a problem of aproach angle and the like, but heck, it’s TV!</p>
<p>The criticism of running the car on an off-road track is, in my view, misplaced. MINI does say that the system isn’t really performance oriented, and did push the increased ground clearance. It’s not like the systems on the VW GTI R, MINI opened the door….</p>
<p>I suggest that many unwad thier MINI panties and get ready for more of the same. But that’s not to say that the car misses it’s target. (That of a more practical car for people with more people or stuff to move). But even the die-hard MINI fan must admit that the particular design paradigm does really leave a lot of room for criticism, most of which you can read elsewhere on this very site.</p>
<p>Matt</p>
<p>I think Vicki is right all the way. She has summed up what the Countryman All4 really is. I have recently tested a full spec dealer version of the S. On public roads the car was brilliant and sporty. The sport suspension didn’t bother at all. Off road it had some grip problems although being an awd and the ride was a bit bumby. I wouldn’t recomend long off road trips with the sport suspension. People have to be realistic and see that the car is not made for off road purposes like a range rover or jeep ect., but the Countryman All4 will give it’s driver a bit more playroom when driving in the countryside. The space issue speaks for it’s self.</p>
<blockquote>It’s hardly bigger than the current MINI when you see it in person.</blockquote>
<p>Interesting take. I find it unsettlingly large compared to my 1st-Gen. But differing opinions make life interesting.</p>
<p>In regard to the review, I found it to be quite decent, if not a bit limited in scope. Vicki, who I’ve always found entertaining, treated it fairly and touched on the <em>major</em> differences between the Countryman and the MINI/Minis that came before it.</p>
<p>It’s bigger, and if that’s OK with a prospective MINI buyer, Vicki pointed out it holds more people and more stuff. I believe she justifiably points out that these <em>enhancements</em> comes at a certain price MINI-wise.</p>
<p>In regard to off-tarmac performance, it only makes sense that the very characteristics that make the MINI fun to drive on tarmac will make it somewhat uncomfortable off of it. But for a MINI being sold as a <em>crossover</em>, this is something that is not necessarily obvious to all car buyers, and warrants being pointed out.</p>
<p>The main point I derived from the review is that no car, not even one designed by MINI, is going to be all things to all people. The very characteristics that make a MINI a MINI require the Countryman to embody certain compromises from the perspective of <em>some</em> MINI drivers. Some, but not all, of course.</p>