New JCW Options for 2006

<p>Yeah……….Whatever…..I want that jacket!</p>

<p><em>JCW Brake Kit will actually fit the MCS standard 16″ wheels</em> – say again? I always read that the <strong>only</strong> 16s it would fit were those strange “twin spoke” ones …</p>

<p>If MINI require an LSD to “risk” factory install, can’t see how they could let it go on the auto transmission. No doubt that will please some readers ;)</p>

<blockquote>If MINI require an LSD to “risk” factory install…</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, Ian, but what do you mean by “risk” here? Isn’t BMW’s risk in the warranty coverage, which is identical whether the kit is installed at the factory or by the dealer? And does an LSD somehow “protect” the drivetrain from the added power? I’d actually think the opposite, since it allows more torque to be applied to the ground when accelerating in a turn. To me that would mean the possibility of more clutch and transmission abuse, not less. Please set me straight. Thanks!</p>

<p>(to self)
(hmmmn, Risk hmmnn</p>

<p>uh, Fun Game?</p>

<p>yeah, that’s it, their talking about a fun game)</p>

<p>Yeah, I like Risk too! Can I play?</p>

<p>Those wheels would be cool if the rimmmms were polished!! Yeah cool! Are they considered horseshoes?(everyone take a drink)</p>

<p>Hmmn that spoiler might get in the way of my racoon tail and give me a tail between the legs look.</p>

<p>Jacket? Can I wear it during Risk?</p>

<blockquote>“risk” – simply that because the factory install requires speccing the LSD as well, thus an implication that MINI are concerned about supplying 210hp front-wheel-drive to drivers who might not be able to handle it.</blockquote>

<p>So you meant liability risk around safety? Sorry, still not following you. In my experience, an over-powered LSD-equipped car requires more skill to drive safely than the same car with an open diff, not less. More power to the ground = more acceleration + more torque steer with fwd = more risk of driving off the outside of a turn into a tree. LSD is not a safety feature at all, really the opposite.</p>

<p>Just so we’re all clear: when you say “standard MCS wheel” you’re talking about the R84 X-lite, right?</p>

<blockquote>It is a more capable car in the hands of a novice especially. I would expect Ian’s hypothesis is probably spot-on.</blockquote>

<p>More capable of accelerating more quickly in slick conditions and out of tight turns, absolutely. It allows a “novice” driver to push an already fast car even faster in exactly the most dangerous situations. Sorry to rant on about this – I don’t mean it as a personal attack on Ian or anyone else. But I think it would be grossly irresponsible to allow people to walk away from this thread thinking an LSD is a safety feature. It’s just not.</p>

<blockquote>In the US it will require the addition of the Sport Package due to the larger brakes.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>… the JCW Brake Kit will actually fit the MCS standard R84 X-Lite 16″ wheels along with the new 16″ Bridge Spoke.
</blockquote>

<p>If the JCW Brakes fit under the standard R84’s, why do you have buy the Sport or Checkmate Packages. I suspect that spacers are required to fit R84’s.</p>

<p>Unless you can ala carte wheels, the JCW Package is not a $6,300 option … it will cost $7,700 (with Sport Package), $8,200 (with Sport Package and R98’s) or $8,500 (with Checkmate Package).</p>

<blockquote> However I still think Ian is probably correct in his assumption.</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for adding that last jab, Gabe. Now, I don’t claim to be an automotive industry expert of the calibre of someone like you or Ian, but I’ll just throw in my humble opinion on the topic. </p>

<p>BMW are not offering the LSD with JCW kit to make the cars safer, nor to make novice drivers more capable of driving faster and killing themselves. They are doing it because they think they will make more money that way. And they are likely right. I think they’re bundling the LSD and brake upgrade with the engine kit for two main reasons: </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Simplifying production variations and the related supply chain. They know that 99% of people getting a JCW kit would opt for the LSD anyway, and most would go for the brake kit. By bundling all three on every JCW car, as opposed to offering them a la carte, BMW and JCW can better plan for and meet demand during production, and assembly of JCW-equipped cars is greatly simplified. Production and inventory costs are reduced. This is good.</p></li>
<li><p>Pricing and margin. As a factory option, the JCW tuning kit alone would be very hard to justify to many potential customers at, say, $4500, relative to performance packages offered on other new cars. Throw in the LSD and brake upgrade for $6300 and many more customers are likely to be convinced to go for the package by slick marketing copy and even slicker sales people, and you’re still making mad margin. In other words, you’re not going to lose the “hard core” JCW buyer by not offering these options a la carte, and you’re likely to increase sales to those outside this core segment by creating a bundle of three options that <em>appears</em> more reasonably priced. You’re selling more product at similar margins. This also is good.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Again, just my $0.02.</p>

<p>who cares about the engine and wing….those are some NICE wheels!!!</p>

<p>No LSD on the auto (which was the point of the entertaining discussion between nrkist, Gabe & myself).</p>

<p>perhaps i’m getting too cynical here, but i’m finding myself siding with nrkist on this topic. </p>

<p>it really feels like profiteering on the part of MINI. granted the margins on the MINI are getting a little, squeezed by the relative strength of the GBP vs USD, yes the Dollar has had an excellent run over the past 6-7 months, but it’s still below 01-02 levels. however, gabe, you just posted an article detailing the excellent sales of MINI in the US, and squeezed margins doesn’t mean they’re not making money, just that they’re not making as much as they’d like. the model continues to be profitable. and didn’t BMW not expect to make much during the first generation model? yet BMW trots out currency moves as justification for price hikes.</p>

<p>now in the final model year, with the return of strength of the dollar and continued sales strength, MINI ups prices across the board and, in only what can be considered a cynical move, incorporates the JCW kit with Brakes and LSD at the factory, with no appreciable price break, and demands the pack be ordered with the Sport pack, inspite of the fact, as you’ve just reported, the standard 16′ wheels fit over the brakes despite what we’ve been told by MINI and the dealer network. that’s 7700 before any other options are ordered, a 37% increase over a base S. you cannot tell me there isn’t substantial profit in that number, especially now that JCW, the company, is now a part of BMW/MINI.</p>

<p>Look at it this way… does BMW allow the M3 to come standard with 17″ wheels? No. Why? BMW needs to differeniate the models by not only performance but also overall look as well. It’s the same thing here, MINIUSA probably wants to create a certain image for the JCW MCS. They know that 17″ wheels fit the brakes ideally and sets the car apart from the Cooper and standard MCS. <strong>They also know that the only way to get 17″ wheels from the factory in the US is by ordering the Sport Package (or Checkmate for ’06).</strong> So suddenly there’s a solution, make the JCW MCS only available with the Sport Package. It not only makes the JCW MCS look the part with the big wheels, DSC (which is another important factor in this), and upgraded lighting, but it also has the side effect of making the JCW MCS more of a premium purchase – thereby limiting how many we’ll see on the road.</p>

<p>Now, would you rather pay an extra $700 for a set of 17″ wheels and tires with the JCW package? That would bring the total up to $7,000. While for a few that might make sense, I would bet big money that the vast majority of JCW MCS owners also order the Sport Package, and well, you can probably see where I’m going here. If I’m ordering the Sport Pack, I sure as hell don’t want to pay for an extra set of wheels I’m not going to see or use.</p>

<p>Those of us wanting a $26,000 JCW MCS may not like it, but it’s a solution that seems makes sense from a long term brand perspective and in terms of the current ordering process.</p>

<p>gabe the M3 example is apples and oranges. one cannot ala carte their 330Ci to M3 spec, it’s a completely re-engineered vehicle from the motorsport division of BMW while the JCW MCS is NOT.</p>

<p>no, i don’t think i am. i just don’t think your point has merit.</p>

<p>if MINI wants exclusivity for JCW include everything in the sport pack and call it 7700 at the start and don’t pretend it’s 6300 because that number looks prettier in marketing material. if they’re after an asthetic and not exclusivity then toss in a set of 17’s at cost and call it a day. as for having to order 2 sets of 17’s if both Sport and JCW are ordered in the preceeding example, alter the Sport or JCW price when both are ordered. they do that already when one wants the web-spokes vs. S-lites now, what prevents them from doing the same with the example as i’ve constructed it?</p>

<p>Interesting conversation. Has MINIUSA announced that they aren’t going to allow dealer installed JCW options anymore? Seems like that would resolve all the issues people are having (16″ wheels, don’t want the brakes, etc, and so on).</p>

<p>And folks who are so “value” oriented would more than likely go aftermarket anyhow. Since you can get similar numbers for substantially less bank outside of MINI and JCW.</p>

<p>But that gets us to Gabe’s point: The JCW isn’t all about performance, there’s some pedigree in there too. Now that MINI owns JCW, they want to maintain a certain presence with the factory built JCW cars. They have to, if for no other reason than to protect the investment in the brand.</p>

<p>The sport package accomplishes that and works with the existing system. </p>

<p>While some enthusiast would surely enjoy a stripper JCW, the majority (vast majority at that) don’t purchase for the same reasons.</p>

<p>I think the prices are in line. This is a lot of work for one model year on the part of MINI. All this effort will be scrapped once the ’07 production starts.</p>

<ol>
<li>Wish I knew how to do quotes.</li>
<li>I don’t think anyone is “Pretending” about the price of the JCW kit. They are telling us straight out it will require the Sport Pack/Checkmate.</li>
<li>It really seems to be much ado about nothing. If I were to opt for JCW, I’d certainly get the 17″s and DSC…both of which are discounted in the Sport Pack anyway. Plus Xenon and some other stuff.</li>
</ol>

<p>whether the customer ‘would have ordered it anyway’ is irrelevant to the discussion. the choice, if they’ve eliminated the dealer installed option, is gone. </p>

<p>if A requires B then A is not separate or distinct from B.</p>

<p>MINI Germany got the JCW Package right … 210hp Tuning Kit, Brake Kit and 16″ Bridge-spoke wheels … 4,800 Euros (about $6,000).</p>

<p>I’m definitely dissapointed by the bundling. Didn’t want the sport package with the heavy 17’s, nor did I want the dynamic stability control or the big brake kit. A couple thousand $$$$’s worth of stuff I would have opt’d not to get. A $20K 200hp 2006 Civic Si is starting to sound a lot better…</p>

<p>I’m kinda starting to like the JCW wing. One thing it would be a lot easier to wash that area. I wonder if it’s retro-fitable?</p>

<p>And Matt……the sparrow flies low and only he that is he knows how full Lake Gitchygoomie is!………………HUH!</p>

<p>the fact remains, if i were in the UK i wouldn’t have to spec the sport pack to get JCW.</p>

<p>Asked by Z4MINI …</p>

<blockquote>Can someone explain how to do block quotes?
</blockquote>

<p>Just bracket the text with HTML BLOCKQUOTE tags.</p>

<p>Gabe …</p>

<p>Can you add this to “The Fine Print”?</p>

<blockquote>While some enthusiast would surely enjoy a stripper JCW, the majority (vast majority at that) don’t purchase for the same reasons.</blockquote>

<p>I surely enjoy my stripper JCW.</p>

<p>Gabe,</p>

<p>I understand your point, but as other’s stated, the M3 is not an option package for the 3 series – they are sold as completely seperate cars. If MINI really wants to make the JCW package stand out against a standard MCS, then they should package it with 18″ wheels (and increase costs accordingly) as 17″ wheels are rather common on the MCS. Or better yet, don’t sell the JCW as an option at all. Sell it as a seperate car like the M3.</p>

<p>Additionally, the base price of the E46 M3 is exactly $10K more than the E46 330Ci. For that money, you get a completely re-engineered engine with about a 100HP increase, re-engineered suspension, as well as larger wheels and other trim items. Practically a bargain compared to the MCS vs JCW package, IMO.</p>

<p>Part of what makes the MINI so neat is how buyers can pick and choose the options they want to create an almost unique car. Once that starts to go away… I don’t know…</p>

<blockquote>
<p>Can someone explain how to do block quotes?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>You can use <blockquote>, or use the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax " title="Daring Fireball: Markdown Syntax Documentation">markdown syntax</a>, which is just “> “, just like an email reply.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that the two wheel pictures are exactly the same picture (background, spoke orientation, reflections, etc) which tells me the anthracite pic is probably photoshopped. (The center cap is slightly different orientation, but that was probably edited anyway since it clearly isn’t the normal MINI logo.)</p>

<p>I suspect the actual wheels will be a bit lighter, like the other anthracite wheels offered by MINI.</p>

<p>dinan</p>

<p>Hey nut, </p>

<p>The lug nut pattern is off from each other they probably took the picture, jacked it up, then swapped the wheels then took the other picture.</p>

<p>Car Marketing Depts create the dreams and leave it to Parts and Service to try and make it happen.
Surely Michael Cooper and the JCW team have discussed the options at length and in testing.
Then there’s MINI USA – one or two people’s opinions can dictate the whole market place – this doesn’t mean they are correct.
Who decided that USA cannot have MINI One models? Did anyone ever ask the buying public what they wanted?</p>

<p>I’m totally with you, Kevin. I’d be even happier if I could also drop a couple of hundred pounds by losing the AC, Power windows and locks, sound deadening material, maybe swap out some steel for aluminum here and there, and get some truly “lite” wheels. Then you’d have something worthy of being called a “Works” car.</p>

<p>Actually “works” traditionally means something along the lines of factory works program. For instance if BMW fielded a team of factory cars at LeMans next year you could refer to them as “Works” cars. This is in contrast to privateers where independent teams buy the cars from the manufacturer and go racing. It’s a bit of UK vernacular that we seem to have not picked up over the years in the US.</p>

<p>Where’s JimOhio – another character to introduce to your “soap”, continuously saying “I remember when …” and such ;)</p>

<blockquote>The only 16″ wheel designed to work with the JCW Brake kit are the new 16″ Bridge Spokes.
</blockquote>

<p>Which you can’t get with the factory JCW Package :rolleyes:</p>

<p>So, does anyone want to play Risk?</p>

<p><strong>So, does anyone want to play Risk?
</strong></p>

<p>(to self)
am i alone in here? (echo) alone in here?</p>

<p>who was that?…..</p>

<p>So the wing is really carbon fiber but the parts that get glued to the body are, for example, white?</p>