This week’s Auto Express has more on the rumored MCS lightweight. However being that this is Auto Express, it’s important to take some of it with a grain of salt. Here’s an excerpt:
It was revealed by Auto Express in issue 830, and prototypes of the car are reportedly being put through final tests. MINI legend John Cooper Garages is said to be helping develop a new 225bhp 1.6-litre engine.
Our spies say the two-seater will make extensive use of lighter materials in its construction. Production will be strictly limited, and could be as low as 2,500 units. The newcomer is designed to refocus interest in the current MINI line-up in preparation for the launch of the next-generation car, due in 2006. It’s believed the Speedster will offer a totally new driving experience, and it’s expected on sale early next year.
You can read the entire article here:
[ MINI’s Wild Speedster is a Go ] Autoexpress
MotoringFile Analysis: Not sure if you can really call this a scoop since most of this information has been reported on MINI2 and MotoringFile over the past few months. And I’ll go further and say and I doubt this car will be a convertible. It would seemingly go against the point of a hardcore lightweight performance car not to mention what it would do to the price.
What do you guys think? Would you be more or less likely to buy an MCS ‘lightweight’ speedster than a hardtop?
Related:
[ The Rumored Lighweight MCS: Part 4 ] MotoringFile
[ The Rumored Lightweight MCS Part 3 ] MotoringFile
[ The Rumored Lightweight MCS Part 2 ] MotoringFile
[ The Latest on the Rumored Lightweight MCS ] MotoringFile
<p>I’d think a speedster seems nice to have, yea it will do something real bad to the price, but i personally think losing the roof on the speedster seems to make the car’s side more attractive… </p>
<p>o yeah, since it is a limited run, i’d think a speedster may become a rarity in the future… something to look for on ebay in a few years!</p>
<p>Very good photoshop work……i strongly doubt. Releasing this will run smack into the convertible market.</p>
<p>Lightweight??? What for? After market modifications can be done without having to mass produce them.</p>
<p>Still the most important questions of them all, IMO… if JCG is developing the 225hp power output…</p>
<p>1) Are they still working with the Tritec engine for this?
2) If so, will the additional 15/18 hp become available to JCW MCS owners as another upgrade?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>2) If so, will the additional 15/18 hp become available to JCW MCS owners as another upgrade?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>JCG has developed 225hp versions of the tritec for racing so I’m sure the bump wouldn’t be too tough. The key will be to make it reliable of course.</p>
<p>Since the convertible is a couple hundred pounds heavier than the coupe, it seems like an unlikely starting point for a lightweight version of the car.</p>
<p>unless it has a removable hard top…</p>
<p>strike that.</p>
<p>What if we look at this in another light. How about a Hard top convertible. you get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>agreed about the hardtop .. its a must for me too</p>
<p>Now we have a “lightweight” convertible speedster with S-lites? I don’t for a second believe that one.</p>
<p>Maybe a hardtop speedster with a revised roofline to shed some weight, but that seems like a lot of work for just 2500 cars. </p>
<p>I would still bank on a traditional MCS body style and roofline, mostly because the development costs of this project are only being spread over 2500 cars and throwing in speedster (hardtop or soft top) development dollars on top of the lightweight development dollars doesn’t make much sense at all with that few cars to spread the costs over.</p>
<p>I agree Dave… it doesn’t make any sense on multiple levels. I think once again Autoepxress have proven their worth.</p>
<p>Although I realize it a photo-chop, I like the look of the speedster, lightweight or otherwise.</p>
<p>I dislike that steeply raked windshield in the photoshop cabrio.</p>
<p>Autoexpress? The National Enquirer of the automotive world.</p>
<p>A speedster traditionally doesn’t have any roof, soft top or otherwise. The question is whether the extra reinforcement required would nullify weight saved by chopping the roof. </p>
<p>The point on development cost is a fair one. Developing a completely new body style for 2500 vehicles doesn’t seem good economy, although I doubt BMW would want an image builder like this to fully pay back itself through sales (i.e. they might not mind if the sales do not pay for the development, as long as cost doesn’t go through the roof – which is unlikely not to happen, though).</p>
<p>What’s BMW’s reason for this MINI lightweight: a roadgoing concept/
market tester for a watered-down version — or what?</p>
<p>so, the lightweight is the speedster? or am i just confused</p>
<p>I doubt it is a speedster but hey that’s my opinion</p>
<p>If I were to be paying all that extra to get a lightweight MINI then I’d take the hardtop. Thank you very much.</p>
<p>Now if we could just have Bertone ship them back to england via Getrag and have them install their all-wheel drive system. I could accept the added weight for the added preformance.</p>
<p>If the new “lightweight” is a convertible speedster, I’ll pass. Primarily because I’m all about hatchbacks. The thing that initially attracted me to the Cooper was that it was a hatch. What stole me away from being a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th GTi owner, was the driving excitement. Secondly, if I wanted a speedster/roadster, I definitely wouldn’t get a FWD MCS. I’d get a used S2000, new Miata, or the upcoming Saturn Sky. Lastly, the convert and would-be speedster versions of the Cooper don’t/won’t have as much body rigidity. Unlike S2000’s and the like, the Cooper was designed as a roofed-car. Shame that they’d give it more power, lighten it up, and then compromise the handling.</p>
<blockquote>Now we have a “lightweight” convertible speedster with S-lites? I don’t for a second believe that one.</blockquote>
<p>haha</p>
<p>I LOVE the raked-roof, though. A better drag co-efficient would help these car’s 0-60 and 1/4 mile time immensely. Right now, we’ve got a Neon engine and the dc of an Escalade…definitely not a recipe for speed.</p>
<p>I would yearn for a speedster more, but it is even more unworkable for me, currently. Damn I would want one though.</p>
<p>BMW developing a seperate body style for a lightweight MCS or Speedster isn’t really such a stretch, if you think about it. If they’re going to be replacing body panels with lighter weight materials anyway, there’s a minimum amount of pre-production work going into the car regardless of shape. It isn’t as though they can lay a sheet of carbon fiber into the bonnet press and just stamp one out. So if lightweight bonnets, bumpers, and other exterior panels are being made, altering the shape or detail of those panels isn’t much of an additional production issue, should they want to do that. </p>
<p>My curiosity is what the relationship is between this rumored upcoming lightweight variant and the 1700 lb all carbon-fiber MCS that got delivered to Fireball Tim by MINI-USA for drag racing. If that were <em>the</em> actual car that became available in limited numbers. Couple that with the above rumored 225 hp JCG engine tuning and you’d have a car that was downright “stupid fast.”</p>
<p>Letting my imagination rip, I’d see the MINI lightweight as a shrunken Audi TT Quattro Sport. That’s to say, Audi lightened their 225 Coupe for this model by ditching the back seats ‘n stuff, plonking a bigger spoiler on the back and chucking in a couple of Recaros to grip you while the modded suspension and meatier wheels do their work. If Bertone do similar, I’d expect a fastback grafted on to mirror the MINI’s sloping front: think Porsche Cayman, maybe, in looks? My local dealer says he has been allocated one “lightweight” but so far no takers, possibly because there’s no picture, yet (or because he’s been told to talk in the £30,000 ballpark). No, I won’t tell you where to queue as I haven’t made up my own mind yet!</p>
<p>Look, I’m not asking for much. Just keep the rear seats and the hard top, for God’s sake! Swap out some steel for aluminum or CF on the roof and bonnet. Drop the sound insulation, AC, and power windows/locks. Stiffen up the suspension a notch and slap on some truly light wheels. Oh, and a spray of proper non-metallic BRG would be a much appreciated bonus. I would get in line right now if this were the package.</p>
<p>I need a hatchback and a rear seat. I don’t need another 15hp.</p>
<p>I agree with Frank – that windshield looks silly on a short & stubby car like the MINI.</p>
<p>They’d easily sell all 2500, but there’s precious little time. </p>
<p>Can they get them to market before R56s start rolling off the lines?</p>
<p>Are we certain MINI will wait until next SEP to release the R56?</p>
<p>I would guess Oct/Nov 2006 for the next MINI (R56)</p>
<p>Yes, the timing is strange on this one. By all accounts to date the R56 will launch as a MC/MCS in 2007, then the Traveller/Countryman/Wagon/MINI COOPER EXT in 2008, which in theory was suppose to be the first expansion of the product line.</p>
<p>What doesn’t make sense to me about this speedster lightweight is why MINI would rush to have only 2500 copies of a speedster floating around, which would alter the image of MINI, only to then launch the R56 minus the speedster and then launch the next variant a year later in a form which is even more practical / utilitarian than the COOPER.</p>
<p>A speedster lightweight would seem IMO to yank the brand into a direction that MINI has no intention of following up with in short order once the R56’s start rolling off the line. With what we know so far there may not even be any R56 COOPER and COOPER S Cabrios initially, let alone speedsters. </p>
<p>So, why hype this limited production version and have it turn the brand in a direction that won’t soon be repeated? </p>
<p>It all makes very little sense to me in speedster form, given how the R56’s are due to rollout just around the corner.</p>
<p>Here is a link to a Dutch magazine with (supposedly) a picture of the new S but it must only be in the latest issue ’cause I don’t see it on the website:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.autovisie.nl/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autovisie.nl/</a></p>
<p>Well, the thing that seems obvious is that there are two options, Kick off the new version with a light weight, or say good bye with a light weight. </p>
<p>Think about it, when the MC40 came out, we knew more about it than this. The launch of the Convertible, more still, right now it is just a rumor. I bet it will be a variant of the new 07.</p>
<blockquote>Here is a link to a Dutch magazine with (supposedly) a picture of the new S but it must only be in the latest issue ’cause I don’t see it on the website:
<a href="http://www.autovisie.nl/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autovisie.nl/</a></blockquote>
<p>Did a “Zoek” for Mini on the site and came up with a link to pics for a “facelifted” Mini. Click on the link and you are given a message and a field to enter text into. Message translates to:</p>
<blockquote>To examine espionage film the car vision needs you a code. This code appears on page 15 of car vision 3.</blockquote>
<p>Looks like we’re out of luck until someone with the magazine can provide the code or scan the pics in.</p>
<p>Did anyone see the “fastback” concept in an old AutoCar? They were very TT-looking and rumored to be a dirivitive of the next gen car, but the more I think about it, the more I see it as a possibility for the “lightweight”. Here are some of the sketches from that issue:
<a href="http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/gallery.asp?NA=213196" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/gallery.asp?NA=213196</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Did anyone see the “fastback” concept in an old AutoCar? They were very TT-looking and rumored to be a dirivitive of the next gen car, but the more I think about it, the more I see it as a possibility for the “lightweight”. Here are some of the sketches from that issue: <a href="http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/gallery.asp?NA=213196" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/gallery.asp?NA=213196</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>To give you an idea of actually how daft AutoCar can be when it comes to their reporting… take a look at where they took those images: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.motoringfile.com/2005/01/07/the_ultimate_la_machine_contest">The Ultimate LA Machine Contest</a></p>
<p>Here is a spy photo of the actual roadster found at the JCW Garage
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.gbmini.net/gallery/JCWvisitFeb2004/SmartRoadster1">Apr 1</a></p>
<p>Hum, I wonder why all those old Porsche Speedsters have cloth roofs if the traditionally Speedster has none……………..Eelke?</p>
<p>It’s a pic taken by Ian of a SMART speedster!</p>
<p>That last comment was for Ocapn.</p>
<p>Frank, I think it would be odd, if indeed it ever gets built, to have a more upright windscreen. Plus it gives it that Speedster look.</p>
<p>Man, I wanted to see how long it would take, it did say apr 1! after all.</p>
<blockquote>To give you an idea of actually how daft AutoCar can be when it comes to their reporting… take a look at where they took those images: The Ultimate LA Machine Contest</blockquote>
<p>Autocar definitely put a spin on the story then. But they were from BMW’s California Design Center, right? Couldn’t these sketches still spawn or influence the look of a then-future variant? I would imagine that a limited-run vehicle (if they do indeed change the body) could come from a separate design studio with the lead designers busy on the next gen car. (So fun to speculate…)</p>
<p>speedster or hatchback, if it’s a lightweight, I’m in!</p>
<p>Just give me that ALCANTARA steering wheel!!!!!!
please, oh please, please, please!</p>
<p>This makes since the current convertible will stay in production alongside the the next-gen Mini into 2007. I would assume that this ‘speedster’ would have no top and a chopped/modded windshield to give it a cool look. By removing the top, its hardware, the rear seats and using an abundance of lightweight carbon fiber it would be very light.</p>
<p>Also by making it a convertible it would be easier for them to justify its near $35,000- $40,000 price and try to make it as an alternative to the Lotus Elise.</p>
<p>I like what you say, johnsocal. Yes. I am beginning to see the light.</p>
<p>We already discussed the Autovisie (Dutch mag) thing on Mini2.com, and it is a lot more believable. Autovisie is a very respectable magazine. The picture in the mag (which is very nice for what it is, almost two pages big, it takes up most of the space of the two pages of the mag they have dedicated to the story – there’s not much to tell, after all :)), is an “artist’s impression”, and clearly marked as such in the text. What makes this story stand out from all other stories we heard so far is that there are actually some comments from within Mini confirming the Cooper S lightweight and giving a few details:
– Lightened, as an example no rear seat is given, so it will be a two seater.
– Normal Mini body style.
– Weight reduction of about 15%
– Performance figures of about 220 bhp.</p>
<p>Maybe I can write up a translation later for you guys (although there’s not a lot of news, the biggest news is that some things are supposedly being confirmed by Mini), but a scan of the pic will be a problem as I don’t have a scanner (it’s probably copyrighted anyway, though).</p>
<p>What? Only a two seater? What are the car mag journalists going to moan about now that the restrictive rear seats aint there?
Surely a removable hard-top is an option?</p>
<p>RB: Erm… A <em>Mini</em> Speedster traditionally doesn’t have any roof :)</p>
<p>No, seriously, not sure what I was thinking when making that statement. Probably the image of all this classic Mini Speedsters <em>was</em> crawling around my brain. And even of those, there’s a few around with tops, I think. </p>
<p>Speedster does imply more minimalist and hard core than a regular soft top, though, so in that sense it wouldn’t be a surprise if they left of any soft top worth mentioning, apart maybe from a Lotus Elise type jobby. Which is to say, <em>if</em> Mini would be coming out with a Speedster at this point, which in itself <em>would</em> be a surprise, with a new model around the corner.</p>