This week’s Ask MotoringFile question comes from Jim:
I’ve got the standard 17″ sport package wheel/ performance tire combo on my Cooper S and live in an area that sees snow on and off all winter. I know I’ll need to buy an extra set of tires (and maybe a cheap set of S-lites off eBay) but I’m not sure what to buy. Any advice?
Great question Jim. In part I think the answer depends on how much snow you get every year. If you live in a place like Chicago (depressingly devoid of meaningful snow recently) I’d say that a moderate snow tire or even a good all-season would suffice. However if you live where 3″-5″ of snow a week is common in the winter months, you may want to check out a very good dedicated snow tire.
At this point there are only two tires specifically made in the Cooper S 17″ size (205/45/17). They are the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 RFT and the Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport RFT. Typically Blizzaks are excellent in the snow while sacrificing dry weather grip and overall longevity. On the other hand the Pirelli snows generally go the other route, decent in the snow but still good dry weather tires.
If you want to venture out of the runflat world (recommended if you don’t mind the risk) your options open up quite a bit. And don’t forget that narrower tires tend to give much better results in the snow. I’d recommend checking out the Tirerack for more details on potential non-runflat snow tires.
Personally I use Dunlop Winter Sport M3 on the other car in my garage and for the MINI, the all-season runflats and S-lites that have been sitting in my garage since the day I brought the car home from the dealer.
I’d also recommend another set of wheels if you can swing it. Having to mount and unmount tires on the same set of wheels can potentially damage the tires over time. And being able to swap tires yourself would save you about $200 a year. Like you suggested, S-lites are plentiful and relatively inexpensive on eBay and forums. Sometimes the heaviest, most tank like wheel aren’t necessarily a bad thing when you’re going into the war zone that are winter roads. Another potential choice would be a set of R90 Italian made knock-offs that are selling for just over $500 right now on eBay. If you don’t mind having a non-OEM look and/or smaller wheels the possibilities are endless.
If you’re looking at potentially buying snow tires from the Tire Rack (or any tires for that matter) start by clicking the ad below. It takes you straight to the site and supports MotoringFile if you end up purchasing something from their online store.
Update Road & Track and a pretty good (and recent) article on runflat snow tires and general snow tire technology that might be helpful:
[ Run-Flats for All Seasons ] Road & Track (thanks Ted)
I’ve used the 17″ all season factory tires in the past 3 years in the Philadelphia area (with a handfull of ski trips to Vermont and the poconos) and I’ve been delighted with how the car handles. I’m sure blizzaks would be better, but factory wheels and tires worked quite well.
>the 17″ all season factory tires
So are these all season or not?
<a href="http://accessories.mini.com/internet_relaunch/servlet/image.do?imageId=4403&imageVersion=5" rel="nofollow">Picture</a>
Did i buy seperate winter tires for nothing? ;->
We secured a set of MINI 7-Hole 15″-ers with their standard Conti 175/60/15 tires for Wisconsin, & for 3 years they’ve been wonderful. Snow covered slopes are no problem at all. You’d be hard-pressed to beat the price, convenience, added security of the higher tire side-wall & the pizza-cutter track they use to get tire onto the road.
The softer 15″ ride also puts me in the mood to drive cautious in winter months.
Good luck, all around.
<blockquote>
So are these all season or not? Did i buy seperate winter tires for nothing? </blockquote>
When you order your MCS in the USA with the sport package, you have your choice all all-season tires or performance tires. <b>
If you have Pirellis or Dunlops, you have the performence tires.
If you have Goodyears, you have the all-seasons.
Performance tires are not meant to be driven in the snow.</b>
Your dealer should have asked for your preference before ordering.
It would be a good idea to back off to the 16s for the winter (or 15s on a Cooper). Having a “taller” sidewall is also quite useful in the winter.
So invest in a set of 16 inch wheels, mount the winter tires on those, and have fun. If they’re OEM you probably won’t want white 16 inch wheels. They’ll look awful in about 2 slushy seconds.
I run on the stock Pirelli Euphoria 17″ runflats in the good months. This being my first winter with my MCS, I’ve gone with Yokohama AVS Winters at 195/60R15 88T (got a great deal on them from a family friend). Sadly I’m on steelies since I couldn’t find a deal on 15″ holeys before yesterday. Toronto winters are usually not too bad. I’m not sure if a performance winter tire was the smart way to go, but we’ll soon see. The ride on 15″ regular sidewall tires certainly feels different from my massive runflats.
I have the 17’s with the Sport Package with all-season run flats. I live in Chicago. I’ve only dealt with one winter so far and it was a relatively mild winter. That said, my MCS handled surprisingly well with the stock all season’s. Zero complaints from me.
I’d like to have more traction in cold weather, but I’ve heard that winter compound tires can be ‘darty’ on clear pavement—would shaving help?
Smaller wheels (15″) will be cheaper than 17″, and the tires for them will be cheaper also. You may even be able to get a set of 15″ steel wheels and snow tires for less money than just a set of 17″ snow tires.
If you venture beyond tirerack, other snow tires to look at are anything by Nokian tires (they make tires that are designed for snow performance above everything else, and some others that are more of a compromise between snow and dry road handling)
<a href="http://www.nokiantires.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nokiantires.com/</a>
and I’ve also heard very good things about green diamond tires
<a href="http://greendiamondtire.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://greendiamondtire.com/</a>
I don’t have a problem with snow, so my post is a bit unrelated. It’s time for me to replace my factory runflats on my S-lites. What/Where do you recommend getting the most cost effective replacements?
Les – that’s a huge can of work that I’d rather not open up here at this time. I’d be happy to make that it’s own Ask MotoringFile post however.
Has anyone purchased the Italian made R90 knock-offs mentioned above. I was dreaming of buying the R90s for fair-weather driving and using my S-Lites for winter but it is just too expensive. Those knock-offs are tempting but it is hard buying a non-OEM wheel sight unseen.
I’ve drivin Nokian Hakka 2’s. Side roads which are rarely ploughed or highways with snow and slush that need ploughing, these tires grip firmly and throw the stuff to the side. Take it easy into the sharp corners, but that’s common sense as it’s winter time. I’m considering getting the MINI OEM Winter Package 16′ Alloy wheels with Dunlop M3 RF’s on the new ’06 MC with SP. BMW/MINI OEM recommendations are usually based on solid reliability & safety concerns.
nokian and green diamond come highly recommended to me. I’ve been pensing on the snow tires for my MINI this year way too much. I think the Nokian RSI I saw on my friend’s audi was way too soft for the ammount of snowfall we see here in mid-ct. I put a lot of miles on my car in winter. And through wet and dry, my arctic alpins barely lasted three seasons. I’m looking for that same type of tire to mount to my 15″ MINI steelies this year. I kind of expected more from this article.
The performance tires on even a light covering of snow are downright dangerous. I had problems in 1 inch of snow last year because I couldn’t drive up the sligtest of inclines. I had to find a new route home that didn’t have any uphill stretches.
For driving on Snow I can recommend the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50’s but they are snow/ice tires. Mine literally saw 3 days of on-snow driving last year, making them a bad choice, but when they are on packed or fresh snow they turn the MINI into a little tank. I was amazed at the snow traction they provided.
Because they were more suited for on-snow driving it would have been better if I went with the LM-22’s which are more suited for winter road driving.
My suggestion (for the Detroit area or equivalent): Get some stock 15″ or 16″ MINI wheels off Ebay and put some “sport” snow tires on them. Cheaper than the 17’s and a little more cushion when the craters start forming on the Michigan roads.
Tsukiji made a good point about dry (or wet) traction with the snow tires. I can say from my own experience, the “standard” studless snow tires are not the way to go unless you live somewhere where the snow never melts. They are unstoppable in the snow, but you give up a lot when the roads are clear.
I know several people with the Dunlop Winter Sport M2/M3 tires and love them. Unfortunately, they discontinued the 175/65R15 size, so I had to go with the Pirelli Winter 190 Snowcontrol tires for my stock 15″ rims. I just put them on two days ago, so I can’t vouch for their performance quite yet.
If you are a car enthusiast, treat yourself to some snow tires. The traction is truly amazing compared to all season tires in the snow.
BRG Cooper S
LES I have a set of run flats with less than 1000 miles on them. Contact me at <a href="mailto:gregzito@zitoinsurance.com">gregzito@zitoinsurance.com</a> or 440-821-3865.
<blockquote>I’m looking for that same type of tire to mount to my 15″ MINI steelies this year. I kind of expected more from this article.</blockquote>
Wow, I can’t be I actually just read that. How pleasant. Not sure if you noticed but this article was meant as an answer to Jim’s question. Not yours. If you’d like to send in a question or ask something from within the comments, feel free to do so.
This is a timely topic, as I was going to purchase some snow tires this weekend. Thanks for reading my mind Gabe (and Jim).
Word of warning from personal experience: beware buying wheels on eBay. I’m sure many have with no problem, but I bought a set of 16″ 5-stars for winter use that were advertised as having 7 miles on them (i.e. dealer takeoffs); when I received them it looked more like 70,000. My bullets with 3500 miles are flawless; these 5-stars are anything but. Even after disputing the purchase, which required that I haul the wheels to the MINI dealer (40 miles) to get the professional opinion, the best PayPal could do is ask me to ship the wheels back (at my expense) for a refund of my purchase price (minus original shipping). Since shipping both ways would run me $260, it would be senseless to pursue that solution. So just keep that in mind when buying wheels sight-unseen: if you don’t get what you expect, you won’t want to spend the money to ship them back. I won’t be buying any high-dollar-shipping items from eBay ever again.
I was also eyeing the Dunlop M3, but Costco has the Michelin Pilot Alpin in the 16″ size for $125 mounted and balanced. Does anyone know anything about these tires? Utah winters can be fickle; two winters ago we got clobbered. Last winter we got very little snow in town. So I want a tire that gives me decent performance on cold, dry roads, but does a decent job in snow, slush and ice. The Blizzaks, from what I read, appear to be more of a hardcore snow and ice tire, with compromises on dry roads.
ChrisW – I agree that buying wheels and tires from a private party on eBay can be hit or miss. Obviously a great way to set your mind at ease is look at their feedback. With eBay stores on the other hand there’s much less risk involved.
I don’t know much about the Michelin Pilot Alpin but I can definitely vouch for the Dunlop M3s. They’re not the ultimate snow tire that the Nokian or BLizzaks are… but they are much better on dry and wet pavement then either.
I have an MCS, but I did not get the sport package (I got nearly all the pieces but not the wheels). That means I have 16″ all-season tires, no?
From what I’m reading above (and elsewhere), that is probably OK for downstate NY. This will be my first winter with my MCS, so I was going to ride it out on the stock wheels at least once.
Does anyone think this plan is a really bad idea?
In very snowy areas look for an aggressive tread pattern. Where snow is limited but icy; the more sipes the better. FYI…review of lastest winter tires for 2005…
<a href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1131649384723&call_pageid=970599119419&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes">2005 Tire Review</a>
Sorry Gabe. The title was what i was expecting to see expanded upon below. not the answer to a particular question. It’s a weightily dicussed topic in the NE. I jumped rather heavily and innappropriately. I was eagerly expecting a rather definitive MotoringFile take on the snow tire racket. I probably should have said this up front.
Regards,
John
<blockquote>Sorry Gabe. The title was what i was expecting to see expanded upon below. not the answer to a particular question. It’s a weightily dicussed topic in the NE. I jumped rather heavily and innappropriately.</blockquote>
No worries John. Thanks for explaining a bit. I’d like to do a full on snow tire review and give some very thoughtful opinions, however I’ve only ever had four different sets (2 being Blizzaks). So I’m not sure if I have a enough first hand experience with all the tires on the market. And since I don’t live in Northern Indiana anymore I don’t really get the crazy snow fall that I used to and thus have less of a need for dedicated snows.
<blockquote>From what I’m reading above (and elsewhere), that is probably OK for downstate NY. This will be my first winter with my MCS, so I was going to ride it out on the stock wheels at least once.
Does anyone think this plan is a really bad idea?</blockquote>
Sounds good to me.
Blizzak LM-22’s are awesome…I had them on both of my Audi’s prior to getting my Mini Cooper S. Speed rated, fantastic in the snow, very good in the wet and not terrible in the dry (gave a much more progressive breakaway than the Dunlop SP9000’s I had).
Last year I tried sticking with the All-Season Goodyear RSA’s that came on my Sport Pkg Cooper S w/17’s (I wanted the Summer rubber but the dealer screwed up)…I managed to get around in the snow, but they were not confidence inspiring. The RSA’s ARE ‘All Season’…BAD in all seasons! Worst tires I’ve ever had, and didn’t last many miles. Never again.
This winter, I have 15″ steelies with Blizzak WS-50’s in 195/60 15 or something similar. I haven’t had them in the snow yet, but I am a bit concerned…these tires are AWFUL in the wet. Actually, teeming rain isn’t terrible, probably because I’m going a bit slower anyway, but a road that is merely wet (or has light rain) is an exercise in vehicular control more challenging than even my ’87 IROC Z was (and that car had laughable traction, even in the dry). Seriously, I get wheelspin going up into THIRD! The WS-50’s aren’t much better in the dry…super-pliable sidewalls make the ride much better, but do some wonky things to the handling, and there just isn’t much grip.
I haven’t tried the Blizzak LM-25’s, but they are very similar to the LM-22’s. The 22 was the best snow tire I’ve EVER had…probably because it was a capable tire in wet and even dry conditions as well. Maybe some other snow tires are better in the snow, but I imagine the advantage would be miniscule (the LM-22’s were SO good in the snow, amazing really). They do wear quickly, as good tires generally do, but they work great.
I should also mention that I got the WS-50’s on eBay. Someone bought them for her Saturn Ion, then traded the car after a month (400 miles…still had the little fuzzy things on the tires!)…these wouldn’t fit her Vue. I got the 4 tires, mounted and balanced on the steelies, for $175…it was local so no shipping cost. I DID wind up having to buy H&R wheel spacers because I didn’t like the minimal clearance on the front wheels, but I can re-sell those later (or go for that ‘wide’ look with my summer wheels!).
The point is that with tires, as with everything else on eBay, there are phenomenal deals to be found…you just have to have some patience and some search skills (don’t use the ‘browse’ drill-downs for your specific car, use ‘search’ and start with broad terms or search for similar cars which use the same size wheels, etc…people mis-categorize things ALL the time). The patience is a big one…I searched every day for 2 weeks and passed up on some ‘good deals’ to get this awesome deal.
Now I’m going to get some really cheesy center caps and some trim rings for that ‘retro’ look!
Forgive me if I missed it but can anyone else comment on the usability of the Pirelli SnowSport RFTs?
All I saw was Gabe’s comment about them being “decent” in the snow….I live in Chicago as well and for the past several years our winters are like: One day where we get 800 feet of snow and then a couple weeks straight of below zero temps…..hardly ever snows day after day so suffice it to say, the streets are only snow-laden for 1-3 days every few weeks, then the cycle repeats. Seems to be more slick and icy than anything.
So how do you all feel that those Pirelli’s would behave under those conditions?
_Al
I just put Blizzak LM-25’s and 16″ steels on my MCS. I’m in Minnestota and we’ve already had a little snow. On dry pavement they are not too bad, a little soft, but in the snow they are fantastic. They are very reasonably priced also (tirerack), so for what it’s worth I think I have a great setup for Minnesota winter.
Here are the reviews:
<a href="http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Blizzak+LM-25" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Blizzak+LM-25</a>
Don’t forget the <a href="http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=RE33&mospid=48021&btnr=36_0827&hg=36&fg=30" rel="nofollow">OEM winter tires</a> and <a href="http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=RE33&mospid=48021&btnr=36_0793&hg=36&fg=10" rel="nofollow">OEM steel wheels</a> as options… orderable via BMW/MINI part number!
I myself am going to try this route, although I can’t use the steel wheels since they won’t fit over my JCW brakes. Instead I’m going to try the <a href="http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=RE33&mospid=48021&btnr=36_0603&hg=36&fg=15" rel="nofollow">R87 Double Spokes</a>, which apparently will fit over them. Note that the narrower steel and R87 wheels (5.5″ wide, not 6.5″) are designed to fit the 175/60R16 tires, not the 195/55R16. That’s actually a good thing in the snow – narrower tires “cut through” the snow better.
Regarding some information regarding Winter Run Flats…
[Winter Run Flats](<a href="http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=20&article_id=2810&page_number=1" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=20&article_id=2810&page_number=1</a>)
How will changing to a 15″ from a 17″ effect the speedometer/odometer?
I remembered reading something very negative about Blizzaks on a MINI in a car magazine once, and managed to find it. This from a long-term road test of a 2003 Cooper S in Car and Driver:
<blockquote>When the Mini arrived here in March 2003, it wore Dunlop SP Sport 5000 DSSTs (for Dunlop Self-Supporting Technology, or “run-flats”). By the time the snow began piling up in November, the Mini got new boots for Christmas in the form of Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50s measuring the same 195/55R-16 as the original-equipment Dunlops. On snow and ice, the Blizzaks were awesome, but when the pavement dried out, the logbook quickly filled with criticism of the blocky-treaded tires that were literally hell on wheels. One editor said it rode “like a ’70s Vette” and another thought the car was so darty that something had broken in the suspension.</blockquote>
Food for thought. Guess I’ll be crossing the WS-50 off my shopping list and focusing on the Pilot Alpin or Dunlop M3.
The snow tire question is a tough one. Some of us live in the mountains in the snow belt and see snow on the roads often enough that giving up some dry road performance for snow safety is a no-brainer. For other people, their cars rarely see snow and don’t like giving up a lot of dry road performance…
There should be a growing number of all season tires that have the severe service “snowflake” symbol on them. These tires would make a great tire for those that want a tire that will not suck on dry roads, and not get them killed on those every once in a while snowy days.
The Nokain WR is one example of this. It may still be too “snow” oriented for some people, but it may fit the bill for others. here’s a review:
<a href="http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/nokian.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/nokian.htm</a>
Many of my friends who live in the Boston / New York area but make frequent winter trips to Vermont to ski swear by Nokian’s all season tires. These are people who want tires that will last a fair amount of miles, handle reasonably day to day on dry pavement, and get them through the falling snow with no problems so they can ski.
I picked up my S in March 2003, and the Dunlops that came with it have been just fine in all kinds of snow. However, I’m just about out of tread after only 21,000 miles (must be all that high speed mountain driving!). Unless I was headed north of the Arctic Circle, I’ll stick with all-season tires year ’round, thanks.
(I’m intending on doing some research on Michelins in the very near future.)
I just located a set of 4 of the “sold out” 195/55-16 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 DSST tires. Will be mounting them to 16″ steel rims from Tire Rack and removing the 17 Pirellis on my 2005 MCS. Does anyone know if I can use the same wheel bolts? or are there shorter wheel bolts for steel wheels?
<blockquote>How will changing to a 15″ from a 17″ effect the speedometer/odometer?</blockquote>
petey,
You have to remember that the overall diameter of the wheel is a function of both the wheel AND the tire. If you go from a 17 to a 15, you can also put on tires that are 2 inches wider in sidewall length, so you will end up with the same diameter. That is typically what people do.
As long as you maintain the same diameter with the tires that you buy for them, it doesn’t matter what size wheel you have, the speedometer will still be accurate.
For example, the three “standard” sizes that MINI uses on the Cooper & Cooper S are:
175/65R15
195/55R16
205/45R17
The first number is the width of the tire (in mm). The second number is the sidewall length, expressed as a <strong>percentage</strong> of the tire width.
Take the 175/65R15 tires. So the math would be 65% of 175mm, which is 113.75mm, which is 4.48″. Since the diameter of the whole tire & wheel passes through two lengths of sidewall (one on either side of the alloy wheel), the total diameter would be (4.48 x 2) + 15. That’s 23.96″ (608.5mm).
If you do the same calculations for the other two “OEM” sizes, they come out to 24.44″ (620.9mm) for the 16″ wheel, and 24.26″ (616.3mm) for the 17″ wheel. As you can see, they are all very close, within a half inch, so the speedometer varations will be very small.
<blockquote>When you order your MCS in the USA with the sport package, you have your choice all all-season tires or performance tires.
If you have Pirellis or Dunlops, you have the performence tires.
If you have Goodyears, you have the all-seasons.
Performance tires are not meant to be driven in the snow.
Your dealer should have asked for your preference before ordering. </blockquote>
Aren’t the OEM Dunlop 5000 All Season?
Edge,
You rock.
I purchased the Dunlop Winter Sport M3’s last year.
They took my Mini anywhere it wanted to go all last winter. They look great and I blasted past many a
SUV stuck on the side of the road.
Great tires. Just put them back on last week.
i just closed on a set of take-off MINI holeys with wearless conti all seasons. soooooo much for snow tires… 😉
I’ve taken my perf runflats up to the Sierra after and during a couple of storms. Scary, but fun if you keep the speed up and use lots of opposite lock.
I’ve got a related question: Are there any tire chains or chain-like devices that fit the stock 17″ wheels and tires?
We have to deal with chain restrictions here in the Sierra. Kind of a must if you don’t have awd and want to make some tracks. No chainies, no freshies.
Off topic (mostly), but I just saw the Konig Rewind wheel in graphite – that would be a great looking winter wheel that wouldn’t look dirty all the time, but it only comes in a 15″ size (bummer). Can a Cooper S cabrio use a 15×7 wheel? And if so, what tire size?
Frank,
The alloys that come on our cars are a different shape than those used on steel wheels….alloys use a tapered head, while steelies use a ball type head. I’m using the standard lug bolts on my steelies and, while they don’t pose a problem in normal use, I can tell you that they need to be retightened every few hundred miles (which is not a good sign). I’ll be replacing them as soon as I can locate the correct kind of bolts.
If you buy a set of steelies from Tirerack, they will also provide a ‘mounting kit’ that includes the correct bolts for the new wheels.
Osmodious,
Thanks for the reply and info!
In a strange way I am looking forward to the Dunlop Wintersport M3’s as I have heard all good things about them. The black steel wheels will add a bit of a winter “tough” look to the MINI as well!
Question – What’s the smallest rim you can run with the MCS JCW brakes? Thanks!
<blockquote>Question – What’s the smallest rim you can run with the MCS JCW brakes? Thanks!</blockquote>
There are two 16′ wheels that work with the JCW brakes. The new Bridge Spoke R94 and the older and fairly rare Double Spoke R87.
If you check out the forums, especially MINI2’s tire forum, you can see many of the options people have had for winter tires.
As mentioned a second set of wheels is the only way to go if you expect to keep the car more then a year.
My view, is given that steelies are insanely easy to bend on potholes and bad roads, which are inherent anywhere it snows, its just easier to get alloys of some sort.
If you compare the pricing of the OEM solution, which is more of a skinny tire (175 series) to options such as tire rack, its not exactly a good deal – except that sometimes dealers will install and swap tires for as long as you own the car. If you’re the type who doesn’t want to change your own wheels, then that could help.
and since most modern tires are designed to grip on snow and ice, not cut through it, the wider is a benefit, so with that I’m a big fan of the wider options that still maintain the same approximate diameter and thus revolutions/mile as Edge mentioned. There’s 185 and 195 series options in 15″, and you can upgrade to 205 in the 16″ if you’re going that route, though honestly, unless you’ve got brake size issues, 15″ is a better option because its not only cheaper as mentioned, it will give you more cushioning on bad roads – of course trading off handling, but eh.
I lived in Rochester NY and had WS-50’s on my MINI, which were great, but dangerous as mentioned in wet if you didn’t know what to do, (fortunately there was rarely a day without at least a dustin of snow, so it was only an issue for a few weeks in the spring and fall that it could be wet).
Since moving somewhere slightly less snow prone, my MCS has Dunlop Graspic DS-2’s. They were a fair bit cheaper then the Blizzaks, and held up well last winter and just fine last week when we had a 6″ early storm that managed to close I-90 for 5 hours just east of the exit I got off at. They are also adequate in wet weather, so I think they’re quite optimal if you’re somewhere between heavy constant snow and a place you could get away with all seasons.
I went through exactly this process last winter and with the help of those here and on MINI2 I got this setup from the Tire Rack… (BTW the Dunlop SP Sport 9000 DSST runflats I can say I have found them to be a fantastic rain tire and a fun dry tire for 3 season use and in all other respects just what I wanted with my 17″ S lites so no regrets that they came with my MINI… based on wear at 15,000 miles on them I expect that I will get 30,000 out of them with a bit of luck)
The M3 16″ run flat snows below on their quite lightweight K1 wheels make an excellent Winter tire/wheel combo and I give up realy quite a small amount in dry grip for realy quite fantastic snow performance I was plowing fresh snow with the spoiler more than a few times last year with NO traction problems
I do not see the M3 in the tire rack website this year so I am very glad that the ones I have should see me through the next few winters based on the wear last year… I wonder why they dropped it as they now do not carry a pure snow run flat tire in either 16″ or 17″ for the MINI
4 195/55HR-16 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 RunFlat $125.00
1 Gyear/dunlop regist card rtl N/C
4 16×7.5 Kosei K1 Racing White $129.00
16 Required lugbolt for vehicle N/C
4 Mount and balance – no charge
4 Required centering ring $6.00
Shipping Method: UPS GROUND
Shipping Out of: Delaware
Order Total: $1,114.12
Opps I see that they still have this one(Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport RFT Size: 205/45VR17 Price: $173.00 each) (the Brigestone Blizak 17″ is out of stock for the winter and they have NO runflats in 15 or 16″ Snows for the MINI this year) but the Pirelli costs almost $200 more for a set than the Dunlop M3 runflats and IMO the Pirellis are not near as good as the M3s either in the snow or in the wet/dry… my sister had them on her Outback and I got her to switch to the M3s last year and she was amaze at the improvement and in fact uses them as an all year tire where she lives in rural northern New Mexico as she has found them to be a very good off road tire too
all in all quite strange marketing on the part of the tire rack and or Dunlop and I wonder why it is the way it is this year
According to Alex at Tire Rack (per a previous discussion on NAM), Dunlop is no longer manufacturing the runflat version of the M3. It’s too bad. Guess I’ll be taking my chances with a flat repair kit.
These are the snow tires that I just picked up. Size 185/65-15 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2
<a href="http://www.mini2.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/21769/cat/500/ppuser/904" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.mini2.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/21769/cat/500/ppuser/904</a>
![url=http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/medium/NokianHakka1a.jpg] img
Referring to the statement by Osmodious about the fitment package: did you get the correct lugs from TireRack? I hadn’t realized I needed different ones and I did not get anything extra with my steelie n’ Blizzak package I bought last month. What about center caps?
Thanks…I’ve emailed Alex@TireRack but was curious what others’ experiences had been.
I have the Nokian Nordman-1 185 65 R15 studded snow tires for the serious snow an ice we have here in Alaska. I drive my mini all winter and have never had a problem. It grips the ice and snow like a cat with it claws out.
I have driven in over 12″ of fresh snow. I was pushing snow on our secondary road in our sudivision to get to my house and the nice warm garage. They plow out the highway and main roads first.
I have the ski and snowboard racks and my son and I drive about 70 miles to Alyeska resort many weekends. The snow tires make all the difference.
Tim, since I got my tires on eBay I did NOT get the correct lugs. Actually, I did have to get longer lugs because I bought H&R wheel spacers (15mm) to ensure clearance (and also bring the tires out a bit to look better and get back to the correct wheel track…the narrower track made the car VERY darty!), but the 15mm longer lugs are also taper-type lugs. I have not located a source for the correct ball-type lugs yet.
As to getting the correct lugs from Tirerack…you have to check the ‘additional hardware’ checkbox when you buy the tires on their site.
Oh, and center caps…ugh, what a nightmare it is trying to find ANY! I really want to put some trim rings and center caps on the car (the exposed hub nut bothers me) but I just can’t find them…I might just go to this place in Easton, PA that has thousands of hubcaps to look (NOBODY has hubcaps any more! just those cheesy plastic ‘wheel covers’ at Walmart and such…I guess nobody dresses up steelies except dorks like me). Let us know what Alex tells you about the lugs and caps, please!
I will let you know what I find out. I’m going to push for center caps but I don’t know what luck I will have.
I did find some MINI part numbers for the caps, which you could try to give to your friendly MINI parts guy and see what you get. No idea if these are accurate or if so what they cost:
Center cap for steelies: 36 13 6 767 398
Decal for cap: 36 13 6 767 399
The word from Alex is that the standard OE lug bolts will work. I can assume this is at least true for the 15″ steel rims.
I asked about center caps but didn’t get an answer…
I’m surprised regarding Tire Rack telling people the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 has been discontinued. As of today Dunlop/Good Year USA Product Manager (Rob McKay) confirmed that the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 DSST is a current product and is back-ordered at the moment.
I was also eyeing the Dunlop M3, but Costco has the Michelin Pilot Alpin in the 16″ size for $125 mounted and balanced. Does anyone know anything about these tires?
I have run Michelin Pilot Alpin’s for the past three winters in Colorado and they are great. They also handle well on the dry roads in between snow storms.
I can’t find the Dunlop M3 DSST anywhere. Does anyone know where I can get them? I’ve also been told the Goodyear GW3 EMT Tires are good, have any of you heard good or bad things about them. I live in New Jersey and we occasionally have snow, but mostly dry/wet winter roads. Also, Tirerack doesn’t have the LM-22’s in the 195/55-16 either. Thanks
Speaking with Mini directly; they somehow underforecasted their Dunlop M3 RF’s requirements for MINI; seems that some of the initial supplies arrived; but the full seasonal requirement is no where to be found. Sounds like all of North America is out. Don’t know the situation in Europe? Someone missed the business needs by at least an order of magnitude. This is November and its all over & out apparently; unless Dunlop have tires in transit. Regarding the Goodyear; very similar to the Dunlop. GW-3 better in icy areas. M3 better in deep snow. European winter tire testing give the M3 an edge over the GW3 on average. (typically snowier conditions)
Excellent forum. I just picked up my 02 MCS after having Pirelli 240 Snowsport non-RF 205/45 R17s mounted on the S-lites and am waiting for some snow here in Minneapolis to check them out. I can attest to the fsct that the stock Pirelli Euroforias do not take to the slightest frozen precip. After unloading the Euroforias in the garage, I realized that the tire shop had not marked them as to mounting location in any way. They have almost 20,000 miles on them but could go another summer. What would be the best way to remount them on the car next spring?
Further information regarding the Goodyear GW3
European website video infomercial
[Goodyear GW3 – click “Profile”](<a href="http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repository/EagleUltraGripGW-2_3/index.jsp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repository/EagleUltraGripGW-2_3/index.jsp</a>)
Ted, do you have any links to the European winter tire testing you refer to? BTW, thanks for the link to the video – that’s helpful info.
Chris, the following links provide some 2005 and 2004 winter tire tests. Europe test studded and non-studded tires; they grade tires through a computational approach evaluation; in most reports the closer to a 1 the better the overall rating of the tire. Most of the tires you’ll recognize; they have models that might come to the US within the 18 months or not at all. Google has translation utilities that might help on certain pages.
Otherwise you can guess the usual snow, ice, handling, comfort, braking, acceleration, dry, wet, etc.
[2005 Winter](<a href="http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://reifentest.iwebland.com/autobild2005w.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddunlop%2Bfr%2Bwintersport%2B3d%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN" rel="nofollow ugc">http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://reifentest.iwebland.com/autobild2005w.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddunlop%2Bfr%2Bwintersport%2B3d%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN</a>)
[2004 Winter Test](<a href="http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://reifentest.iwebland.com/autobild2004w.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddunlop%2Bfr%2Bwintersport%2B3d%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN" rel="nofollow ugc">http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://reifentest.iwebland.com/autobild2004w.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddunlop%2Bfr%2Bwintersport%2B3d%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN</a>)
also check [testberichte.de](<a href="http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_test_stiftung_warentest__15726.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_test_stiftung_warentest__15726.html</a>)
and
[ADACmotorwelt](<a href="http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_adac_motorwelt_30430.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_adac_motorwelt_30430.html</a>)
and
[AutoMotorSport](<a href="http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_auto_motor_und_sport_30054.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.testberichte.de/preisvergleich/level4_auto_motor_und_sport_30054.html</a>)
You can find 100’s of test comparisons in Europe.
Chris, IMHO you’ll see this tire as an OEM winter tire packages from dealers on the 2007 MINI’s.
[New Dunlop SP WinterSport 3D](<a href="http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repository/EagleUltraGripGW-2_3/index.jsp?page=benefits" rel="nofollow ugc">http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repository/EagleUltraGripGW-2_3/index.jsp?page=benefits</a>)
a Five mins. Tire Infomercial
Corrected URL Link
Chris, IMHO you’ll see this tire as an OEM winter tire packages from dealers on the 2007 MINI’s.
[New Dunlop SP WinterSport 3D](<a href="http://www.pneu-aeple.ch/produkte/herbst-2005/dunlop-sp-winter-3d.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.pneu-aeple.ch/produkte/herbst-2005/dunlop-sp-winter-3d.html</a>)
a Five mins. Tire Infomercial
My boss is going to buy Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 for this winter season. Can you tell me the advantages of these wheels? Because I suppose it’s expensive enough.