From the Telegraph.co.uk:
>It was the sort of bend that front-wheel-drive cars like the 167bhp Mini Cooper S really hate: a tightening downhill left-hander. To make matters worse, the road was streaming wet after a recent cloudburst and rivulets dribbled across the gleaming tarmac.
>It’s such situations that get modern traction and stability control systems working overtime as they try to curb wheelspin and maintain grip. Dashboard warning lights flash in front of you like demented Christmas decorations.
>But not in this Cooper, as the electronic stability program (ESP) has been deliberately deactivated. So, heel-and-toe down into second, turn the car into the bend and bury the throttle.
>Instead of understeering off into the Armco, or suddenly slowing as the engine revs are cut by electronic guardian angels, the car’s line tightens, the revs rise and we shoot through the corner like a ball on a roulette wheel.
You can read the entire article below:
[ Look out Ken, here comes the MINI 4×4 ] Telegraph.co.uk
Since we know the fine folks at MINI read MotoringFile, I’m going to throw out a question to our readers. Show of hands, who would buy an all wheel drive MINI as described above? How much weight added is tolerable? How price added is tolerable?
Related:
[ AWD MINI Further Away than Expected? ] MotoringFile
[ Getrag’s All Wheel Drive MINI In Depth ] MotoringFile
Thanks for the tip Randolph.
I’d be interested when it comes time to replace my ’03. Hopefully the weight penalty won’t be too great that it hinders the current dynamics of the car.
Heck yeah I’d buy this in 2007! My last car was a WRX STi and I miss the AWD – I think if AWD is priced at the same differential as Audi prices FWD vs. AWD I think MINI would have a HUGE hit on it’s hands!
I would buy it, even with a turbo,but How do I make room for two MINI’s in the garage?
I like the concept but only for those in areas that need it. I am in the south, so no need for it for climate conditions. Other than climate conditions, I know performance is suppose to be good… but I cannot see an AWD for a four cylinder under 200hp being anything great.
Nope. AWD will inevitably:
1. Add weight
2. Steal power
3. Add cost
Don’t need it.
Yes.
Add power to overcome losses inherant w/4wd.
Can we keep additional weight under 100lbs.?
For this system, I would gladly step up to the plate. Can anyone see this on the WRC? 2 MINIs in the garage? Nope — 2 MINIS plus 2 Minis makes 4 total!
I would be most interested in buying one! It’s not a necessity where I live but it I think it would further (who would imagine LOL) increase the fun factor. I envision a WRC-style MINI 😀 What a great car, especially with a 200+ hp motor but would still be a fine car with the base motor.
If MINI made AWD an option for say
Me, oh yeah, I would gladly trade my ’02 in on one.
Price added on = $3000 seems tolerable. Maybe not reasonable. You cannot make it too expensive or you have created your own Limited Edition. I want to be able to afford both JCW and AWD without the car approaching some significantly higher end cars. It has to stay around the WRX pricing to stay competitive in the market.
GMG
if i were in the market for a new MINI, and if the price was right, i would seriously consider an AWD MINI. i’ve never really had any issues with my MINI in nasty weather (i.e. Michigan weather), but AWD does add some security.
I’m with Z4MINI. If they want to build, fine, but you can’t call it a Cooper.
One more thing, bringing up another thread, I think that’s the only thing VW has done correctly recently: Not calling the R32 a GTI.
Hell yeah..
Anything for a AWD MCS. I’d be first in line at the dealers.
MINI should build it. And it should be unbeliveable in performance – i.e. AT LEAST the JCW 225hp set up.
AND AND AND(gasp) it should be either a) expensive or b) very limited in production. Kinda the Holy Grail of MINI’s. Not MC40-ish in what was called ‘limited’, or even JCW in terms of exclusivity… but really a car that is set apart from the rest. Enough apart that it starts a following, a cult, a racing series…
After all, how many CLASSIC Mini Coopers are there? (not just Mini’s with Cooper stuff on them).. Not many and they are worth it.
We can talk all day about what we want and to “make it affordable”, but really, folks, we all like to see the really special editions. And you can’t have it both ways.
.02
Derek
I’ll take 2!
I live in the Northeast USA and would die for an AWD Cooper S. I agree with GoMiniGo – it has to stay competitively priced with the WRX and the STI – otherwise there is no reason to spend more money for the mini, when you get more HP with an STI stock.
Fully loaded JCW 4WD… I’ll start the bidding at $40,000.00 (US). Do I hear $41,000.00?
Hell Yea!!!
That would make up for the ugly interior of the 07!
It would be cool if they offered a retro kit for our existing cars!!
well, honestky, I cant see the requirement. I have the finest handeling fwd car in the world, with very few problems putting down 220bhp.
So what would I gain by AWD? More weight, more complexity – more break downs. Perhaps it would be faster around a curcuit, but who regulalry drives around a curcuit…?
RWD might have more takers actually.
make it a $1500 option and im in.
Count me in. I dream of full throttle four wheel drifts in an AWD MCS. Keep the weight to a couple of hundred pounds and the cost to a couple of thousand extra.
If I were King, all cars would have AWD. If I didn’t plan on keeping my ’05 MCSC for 20 years, I’d definitely buy a MINI with AWD.
I would love an AWD MINI. I think it is an excellent idea. Granted, I live in Syracuse, NY, and often drive to Buffalo. In the winter, that means literally several feet of snow to deal with. So, I personally think it makes good sense for my situtation.
For someone down south, the added weight and cost might not outweigh the benefits. But for me, traction in winter is very, very important. That is why I think it should be a factory installed OPTION; not on every MINI, (like Subaru does), but one we can select when configuring our car, should we want it.
And yes, Gabe, I would pay more, maybe $2,000 or $3,000 more. I would hope that weight wouldn’t be increased more than 100 or 150 lbs. max.
My other car is a Subaru. AWD rocks.
I don’t know if I’d get AWD in a Cooper, but an S would be a yes.
BTW, our Sub is 165 bhp, and it is much heavier than an S, but it can still haul…
Both this AWD version and the so called “lightweight” have the same problem: once outfitted, they cost something in the $30K region. For that matter, the factory JCW package has the same issue. Each package has an appeal, but in that price range, there is so much else to choose from, including the STI and EVO, which are faster and have more upgrade possibilities.
The MINI is best being what was oriiginally envisioned: a sporty small car with personality that doesn’t cost too much. Give me a real lightweight with an LSD, and nothing else, for $24-25K and I’d be happy.
Cool! I would be all over an AWD Mini, as long as it wasn’t too expensive (the $3000 mentioned above sounds reasonable) or too heavy. I live in northern Minnesota where it would come in quite handy half the year. Sweet! 2007 was around the time I was looking to get into a Mini.
If I could buy a Super/Turbo Cooper S w/AWD and a modicum of luxury (figure the H/K sound upgrade, sunroof, Sport Pkg (which should be part of AWD pkg, IMHO) and Cold Pkg) for $31,000, I would literally go to my Mini dealer right now and put a deposit on it. Seriously, I would take an early lunch and go buy it TODAY.
BUT (there’s always a big ‘but’)…the weight gain has to be reasonable, the ‘tossability’ of the car must still be there (which the article implies it is) and it can’t be any slower than a regular S.
I’m going to guess a lot of people who are dead against this have never driven a car with a GOOD, well engineered AWD system. There aren’t TOO many times it happens, but I often miss my Audi A4 (which had a fantastic AWD system) and think about how great a merger of a Mini and an A4 would be…a tossable R32 would result, I think.
Can you imagine? The Mini is so much fun it should be illegal…add the security of AWD to that? Whoa…
By the way, Audi charges $1650 for quattro these days…I think that is entirely reasonable (especially if they throw in the Sport Pkg!). I’d forego automatic air and other ultimately useless baubles on the option sheet to get it…
I think it could be great, if they use the added weight to add balance. One thing the MINI lacks is the 50/50 weight distribution of its BMW siblings.
If they can give the car that kind of poise in the course of adding the necessary weight of an AWD drivetrain, then that could well be a worthy trade-off: less speed, but even better handling.
Of course, the handling is already pretty choice, and exceptionally good for a FWD car, but hey…horses for courses.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy one here in the South (I’m a Cabrio man, but even if they went to the ridiculous extreme of making an AWD Cabrio, I wouldn’t buy it), but my memories of lake-effect winters in the far northern reaches of New York have me convinced there’s a solid market for the concept.
NOPE! don’t need it. As far as two Mini’s in my Garage I’ll soon have a second Mini and I think they’ll both fit with room to spare.
Tim
I would easily pay $4000 for this option! I’d do it even on a stock MCS. I doubt the wieght increase would have no more of an effect than that of carrying an extra passenger. Shoot, I’ve even carry three passengers with me and the car still is a rocket and corners very very well…so even adding a few hundred pounds with the AWD, I’d be very happy.
Gabe, sign me up! I’d love to get one on my modded MCS.
Having come to MINI from Subies, I agree with dickdavid. But, keep in mind the Subies have larger displacement (more torque) than the MINI. Regardless, they have set a pretty high standard in AWD performance, IMHO.
Since my ’05 is still almost brand new, I wouldn’t be in the market right away, but when it comes time to replace it I would seriously consider a well executed, fairly priced AWD MINI. If the fuel mileage was right with the new engine, my wife would probably consider one also (ever the miser, she is).
Specifically, I’d pay about $2,500 for AWD and hope that weight gain could be held to no more than 150lbs.
….Can anyone else see a AWD MINI pickup? Not a real hauling/towing mule – but a nice little niche automobile! 😛
quick:
AWD: YES!!!!
Weight: Under 150 lbs added? Please?
Cost: $2-3000 (wait…no, make it free!!!)
—–
The only thing that i would hate about that is that I plan to order my 06 by the end of the year. An AWD MINI released in a year would tick me off a little, but oh well!
Another no vote.
Light and simple. Don’t make the MINI into another WRX / Lancer EVO. Please!
Anybody can be fast with 300hp and AWD. 😉
forgot….My winter beater is also a subaru wagon…AWD rocks.
get the power into the low 200’s for the AWD version.
i would totally trade in my Subaru and get an AWD mini in a heartbeat !!!!!!!
Don’t mind how they call it but AWD would make a great addition to the standard MCS-setup, would be very popular in Europe as well…
21st century MINI:
fun in ALL circumstances!
No.
Vote: Yes
Cost: $3k, thereabouts.
Weight: 150 lbs, no more.
I’d want to JCW the little beast as well, after all. Biggest problem is that I just got my ’06, but having AWD is something that the SO really likes, and something I was more than glad to have with my Subaru.
Well, no, the biggest problem is finding garage space!
An AWD MINI you bet, and not because I live near Buffalo, NY.
I want to see MINI kick butt in WRC.
Cheers,
Jack
Hmmm-
Audi TT Roadster wt: 1310kg/2,888 lbs
Audi TT Roadster w/quattro: 1475kg/3251 lbs
That is 363lbs of difference. Not good.
AWD would also cut into the gas economy/co2 emmissions of the car.
I have never thought of ever getting rid of my 02 MCS…that said if anything were to motivate me to trade it in, it would be AWD.
If MINI could pull off the right ballance of power, weight, and price I would be VERY interested. BASE price would have to be no more that 25K.
Tall order, but MINI is supposed to be about market leading performance at an affordable price.
Where do I sign up?
Track considerations aside – using experience drawn from the benefits and advantages from seat time in BMW segment product [i.e. 330iA vs. 330xiA]; I’d vote ‘Yeah’ if for no other reason(s) that the vehicle is far superior in slippery conditions and instills confidence. That increased confidence translates into a more relaxed hand(s) on the wheel vs. “white knuckles” which helps reduce fatigue and stress. Of course it’s not necessarily for everyone – depends on how, when & where you drive.
If it was an option I would strongly consider it as long as it’s still drives like a Mini. As others say if they could add it and keep the same/similar driving dynamics as the non-AWD models (big challenge).
I would expect an AWD option to include numerous suspension and engine mods to maintain those dynamics. If the AWD model was actually the top end performance model all the better!
I would expect to pay around $8,000 for such an option. Ideally less but trying to keep it real.
Living in the Rocky Mountains, I can tell you the option would be checked on probably 90% of the MINIs sold in this region. I think the added weight would be tolerated, as it is on subarus, audis, and all various minivans sold here.
There are many of us out here that think the beastly superduty trucks and SUVs the “compensators” drive are a disgrace, and the small sacrifice in performance or economy would be more than acceptable for a little more confidence during our Utah winters.
It would be next to impossible to add an AWD system for less than 150 lbs as suggested by a couple of comments here (100 lb gain FWD to AWD is simply a pipe dream — even with extensive use of expensive exotic materials). As suggested by Z4MINI, 300 lbs. or greater is a more realistic estimate given price constraints…
Remember too that AWD systems still have a tendency to understeer, especially one that is based on a FWD system.
I do not doubt that the AWD system would improve lap times on a wet track and give an extra margin of safety in slippery road conditions, but a standard MCS (with a stiffer rear sway bar added) would smoke an AWD MCS on a dry track given drivetrain losses and extra weight of the AWD system.
You rally fans should know that front and rear wheel drive only cars can still be incredibly quick in slippery conditions. After all Mini won Monte Carlo in a FWD car, and Porsche won the Carrera Panamericana in a rear engine, RWD car.
Correction I just red through the entire article. Sold, whatever you want to charge me! Let me drive it and see for myself and then where do I sign?! 😀
MCS + JCW + AWD must not exceed 30k …I said when I bought my 03 MCS there is only one thing that will get me to get rid of this car….an AWD MINI….count me in.
All the concern about weight and price is easily delt with….simply delete the sunroof as an option for AWD cars.
Cuts 100lbs and $800 in cost allowing the AWD to come in on target for both weight and cost!
YES.. DO IT DO IT DO IT!
I would buy one of these however…
There would have to be added horsepower as others
have said.
The transmission would have to be able to handle a few launches without blowing up.
And weight would have to be minimal but I can not say how much… I do not know what this typically adds but I would say anything more then 100 lbs would be a bit much unless power is SERIOUSLY increased.
I drove a 2006 Subaru WRX with the new engine and hit some twisties and it was AMAZING! I can only imagine what AWD would feel like in a MINI.
How do guys possibly figure a JCW AWD MCS for $30K?! You’re talking at least $35K for that combo, at price point at which a Mini stops becoming a Mini IMO.
Not to mention that I’ll take my standard $23K ’06 MCS (w/o a sunroof) with $2000 in mods from Webb Motorsports and run circles around you in most track conditions…
I’d buy one, if it was less than 10% more of the current price. As for the weight – not sure. Less than the cabrio would be nice (don’t know the numbers).
For me, FWD is the Mini’s major shortcoming. For those who want to add real power in the aftermarket, there comes a point (say 200whp) where it doesn’t make sense to put anymore money under the bonnet. I mean, who needs a 300hp FWD car? (Some would say, who needs a 300 hp car at all?) Well, I don’t know if I “need” one, but it would be a great project and fun to drive…
I think an AWD system and the new twinscroll turbo sounds like a great marriage. However, considering the Mini’s size, the additional AWD weight can’t be ammortized as efficiently as say an SUV or even a WRX. So, I think keeping the weight down should be the number one priority. (I’m assuming this is why it will be a FWD based system) Second consideration would be price. The Mini is already a premium car in its class, and mark-up dealers are still rampant (at least here in CA), so I would say that 2.5k would be the absolute limit on a price increase for a FWD-based all-wheel system. If it were true A/4WD with a driver-adjustable CD it could demand a higher cost…but really, in the Mini that is probably overkill.
So, will this be like a Quattro or 4Motion style set-up?
My only experience with AWD is on my wife’s ’05 A4 Quattro. I like it sometimes and other times the car feels stiff I like a looser set up. But I would consider it.
AWD was the one thing I wanted but not offered by a MINI.
It is also the one thing that would truly make me consider replacing mine with a new one.
base MCS FOR 21k + 7k factory JCW + 2k AWD gives a 30k price point….you are either going to by gadgets, feature and option OR performace. If you do both you can spec a 40k MINI today
If they exceed that 30k mark you get into true sports car range where your money is better spent for more performance.
AWD: ABSO – FREAKIN’- LUTELY !!!!
Weight: Under 100 lbs, desirable
Cost: Under $2500 adder
In a minute… I would probably trade my car in and get the AWD or at least get one for Play purposes on the Track and AX
<blockquote>RWD might have more takers actually.</blockquote>
Amen.
Excellent Xmas present-I’d like 2 please!!
<blockquote>RWD might have more takers actually.</blockquote>
I’d imagine Alec Issigonis would have a few thoughts on the “merits” of RWD and AWD for a car that calls itself MINI.
I’m drooling.
IMHO, this post should be an extension of the VW and MINI article the other day.
AWD is certainly within the vein of the direction that we would all like MINI to go. Forget more padding, we need more steering
I sold my wonderful AWD Audi A6 and bought a MINI for the sport driving. After much experienting on the track, My JCW with LSD is balanced so well now that I can drift it comfortably through the corners without over or understeer – as long as the tires are warmed up. I made the mistake last time at Thuderhill of trying to take Turn 9 on cold tires and spun off. It was good to see the rear end coming around though, after all those years of plowing through turns. I’m awed at the job JCW did with the kit, suspension and brakes. AWD would further enhance the handling and I’m all for it. STi’s kick my butt on the track. With more HP and AWD, I might be able to return the favor. I plan to keep my final issue Tritech car though, so maybe I’ll have to sell one of the kids to afford a new AWD too.
No. Mainly because of the weight and price increases. Seems like it would necessarily be more than the 150lb everyone keeps saying, and I don’t quite see how MINI could make a profit only bumping the price up $2-3k.
OK, call me a dreamer but I don’t see why weight should be a big issue here. Sure Audis and VWs are heavy, but this is clearly a different sort of system. Mark me as “Very Interested”.
Sign me up for the AWD. Also, make it available with the traveller!
AWD on a MINI is a possibility I have been looking forward to since I optioned out my ’05 MCS. As long as the price and power is comprable to the EVO and STI, I would certainly consider buying AWD.
Again, the power has to be there, and the price can’t be jacked up just because MINIs are made to order. Keep the pricing competitive and the car will sell very well.
It would sell like hotcakes in the Pacific Northwest.
I’ll take a mini Traveller AWD.
Hey…what about selling an upgrade kit for the current Minis? Seriously, I think there are a lot of people who would drop $2-3k for such a thing (I would). We know the parts are already developed, as the test car(s) are current Minis…c’mon Getrag, be a sport!
NO! …AWD in a MINI ? Forgetaboutit.
Regular FWD was good enough to win the Monte 4 years in a row!…..it’s still great for me!
With LSD now available, why waste the power?
Learn to drive the MINI the way it was intended to be driven and be very happy with that! AWD is a different beast, and not for this driver.
Sign me up! I don’t care if its a little heavier.. RWD bias would be sa-weet….
Living in the North East AWD sounds appealing, and I would consider it for 1) $3k or less, and 2)no real penalty to current MCS ‘feel’ in terms of handling.
However, seems kind of overkill. The car does quite well today in terms of rain, snow, and overall stability. I’d rather put the money into a JCW kit, and likely wouldn’t spend the cash for both.
Yeah, baby. I’d buy one if it were
a) available with MCS power, not just some JCW special;
b) not too expensive: an MCS with AWD should have a base price of $25K or so;
c) not too heavy: under 2800 lbs for an MCS with a solid roof.
These may be difficult constraints, but off the top of my head that’s what would make it worthwhile.
And if they’re going to do it, they’d better RACE it!
I live in Canada and would definitely buy one if:
1.Adds less than 150lbs
2.Costs less than $3000.00 Canadian
Hell Yes.
As I said a long time ago, this might be the only configuration to get me into the next-gen MINI’s atrocious interior. Having been exposed to AWD in my former Audi A4, I appreciate the benefits (and also understand the downsides).
I don’t believe the weight issue would be a huge problem. I think I remember reading reports on here months ago saying that the Getrag prototype was already faster than a stock S. After reading this article, that makes sense considering this system seems to change the front/rear bias more dynamically — <em>“Similarly, because the system takes inputs from the engine management unit, it can pre-load the drivetrain for full-throttle starts and send a greater percentage of the torque to the rear wheels.”</em> That’s without even considering the performance gains of the new turbo engine. But I do agree that weight should be a very important factor. Such a huge number of “performance” cars on the road today are seriously bloated. Even the MINI is hardly a “lightweight”, but at least BMW kept the fat down to a manageable level.
This idea that the MINI isn’t a MINI if it isn’t FWD is silly. Issigonis was a visionary in automotive design, but that doesn’t mean he would consider FWD to be the only solution from here to automotive eternity. A dynamic system like the Twinster that offers the best of AWD, front-wheel, and rear-wheel bias seems like a revolutionary step forwards to me. From the driving report, it sounds like this system would offer just as much driving nirvana as ever. And as long as BMW can keep this option below $2000, I think it would be very popular.
I keep seeing this 150lb. figure — where are you guys getting this?!
The idea of an AWD Mini is a good one to me as well, but it is simply not realistic that such a system would only add 150 lbs. to the car. For example, the VW R32 adds almost 400 lbs. over a front wheel drive VW GTI VR6 24v. This is also a reasonable estimate for the Mini because the R32 uses FWD-based Haldex electronic system. There are a lot of (heavy) components to add to make an AWD system cost effective, reliable, and effective. We’re not talking carbon driveshafts and alumninum bits here, but heavy steel that has to handle everyday wear and tear.
Let’s be optimistic and say that maybe they could get it down to 300 lbs. — at which point you’re talking a power increase on the order of the current JCW engine kit claims (which I have never seen verified with independent dyno testing BTW) just to reach the power / weight ratio of the current FWD MCS bone stock.
Let’s be optimistic but realistic with price here — $7700 for the JCW kit (remember you have to add a sport package as well) plus at least $3500 for the AWD components and engineering. You’ve now got yourself a $32,800 Mini with zero extra bits like sunroof, H/K, leather, automatic A/C that folks are fond of…
Hell yes!! I could care less about the added weight. I’ll place my order tonight.
comparisons to most AWD cars (e.g. Subarus, Audis, R32s) are futile – as i read the excerpt i thought ‘sounds like driving the new RL with SH-AWD).
minis are supposed to be FWD, yes but minis are also supposed to be relatively low in power and weight so as those two increase AWD is a natural expension, esp as the weight is distributed more evenly between the axles and low on the chassis.
this setup isn’t needed for winter traction (FWD/skinny ountain on snowflake 15s/DSC/cpmpact dimensions make it unassaiable in the slippery stuff) i see it more as a matter of how early you can jump on the throttle – in a rear driver or a front driver or a fixed torque split or front biased AWDer you have to wait then wait some more – an awd system like the getrag proposal would fit the mini’s chuckable ‘there’s no way you’re gonna make this corner oh my god you DID’ feel.
would i buy one? if it does as much for this FWD car as the SH-AWD does for a transverse engined FWD platform with 60% of its weight over the front wheels – hell yes.
<blockquote>I keep seeing this 150lb. figure — where are you guys getting this?!</blockquote>
Everything and more you ever wanted to know about the technical aspects of this system:
[ <a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/2005/06/29/getrags_all_wheel_drive_mini_in-depth" rel="nofollow">Getrag’s All Wheel Drive MINI In Depth</a> ] MotoringFile
<blockquote>I think I remember reading reports on here months ago saying that the Getrag prototype was already faster than a stock S.</blockquote>
I call BS on that (other than in adverse conditions of course) — remember that the initial report was basically marketing propaganda written by the Getrag. More often than not, independent testing dispels (or at the very least significantly tempers) the claims of the company releasing the product.
Last Christmas I drove 300km with my husband across an ice covered prairie (freezing rain the day before Christmas and the temperatures plummeted). Thank goodness we borrowed my parents Subaru – we didn’t slip a bit. But saw plenty of front wheel drive cars in the ditch, and did some sliding of our own in my in-laws S60. Front wheel drive sometimes doesn’t cut it – snow tires or no.
All that being said, yes, yes, yes I would buy an AWD MINI. Especially if it was still fun to drive.
Regarding the RWD version: IMO it’ll never happen. BMW won’t risk cannibalizing 1 Series sales. Shame. A RWD MINI would be the go-kart.
I’m intriqued with the AWD here. IF that magic bar of 150#s is possible. I think it’s unlikely, but I’m no engineer.
What I am worried about is how much driver it takes away from the driving exerience. So in addition to DSC you now have HAL2000 AWD? I’m not a luddite, but damn if I chuck a car into the corner I want to make the corrections. No matter how many wheels are being driven.
Having said that, I think it’ll sell well at the numbers that are being kicked about here. I could see replacing our (the wife’s) Subie with a Clubman AWD.
ohh yeah, no econobox here- A Cooper S4… man I wish I could retrofit my 2005 S!!
Let’s see… with 275hp and at $500 extra (well, if I’m going to dream, might as well do it right lol)
seriously- yes.
Put me down for a vote for a AWD MCS 🙂
I will definitely buy one. Not concerned about weight and even price.
<blockquote>Show of hands, who would buy an all wheel drive MINI as described above? How much weight added is tolerable? How price added is tolerable?</blockquote> I must say, I do want one so my hand is up. However, I’m still firmly attached to the trusty old (?) current MINI engine, interior, and clamshell bonnet and haven’t yet quite warmed up to the R56 — which any production car would be derived from. For an AWD coupe I’d want to see no more weight added than was for chopping the top. Price? No more than $2,000 more than the standard 2WD S please, I do have other expenses than those related to my car! But I must say the thought of shooting down Evos and WRXs at the RallyCross circuit is exciting.
I’m in. Love AWD. Owned Audis and Subarus just because of it. I’d swap in my MCS 04 for an MCS AWD now if there was one.
I’m in, put the new engine in with more power, do a rear seat delete, and you got yourself a mighty fine peice of machinery.
I would DEFINITELY give an AWD MINI a serious look! My experience with 4WD showed no significant performance drain due to the extra differential and transfer case – got about the same mileage either way.
Sounds like the suspension stil works well with the rear. Does the test mule have any significant changes to the suspension geometry?
I’ll be waiting to hear MINI’s official word on possible production of such a model.
Sounds fantastic, however I can’t wait any longer for MINI to offer AWD and European delivery. I sold my MCS and have taken the leap to the 997 C4.
I’m in. Under $3K and under 150 lbs. With the new turbo engine and it’s reportedly better torque curve, you would never even notice the added weight.
One 2008 AWD JCW sure sounds nice.
Yes. 150-250lbs extra. $3k max. A little more power to offset the weight would be nice.
can i get it on a cabrio please?
<blockquote>Show of hands, who would buy an all wheel drive MINI as described above? How much weight added is tolerable? How price added is tolerable?</blockquote>
1. 100kg – 165kg
2. $1,500 – $2,000
These ranges certainly seem possible when compared to other vehicles in the industry. It would certainly put it on my wish list.
As long as MINI stuck to it’s current pattern of offering options <em>a la carte</em> and didn’t bundle a bunch of unnecessary items into the AWD base model I think they would have another winner.
As far as where this pushes the final price, that would be to each owner and just how he spec’d his car. It would not have to be any more expensive than just the added AWD system.
I still hope to see an AWD MINI at some time in the future and it will be at the top of my list.
A Mini AWD would absolutely ROCK…. provided they up the power to offset weight / transmission loss 🙂
I could see myself looking at anything around $30k for a Cooper S AWD. (More for the JCW naturally)
Please BMW, please bring this innovative all-wheel drive technology to the Mini. As a current non-Mini owner I can tell you that awd is one item that would ensure that I become a future Mini owner. Engineer/Market the weight/cost to keep with the sporty nature/value of the current Mini.
Patiently waiting….
I’ll take one, granted the Prince engine is managed in such a way to match or surpass the FWD MCSs wheel output. I know there is a lot of mmmph untapped in that engine, so I think it’s a reasonable request (especially as the Twinster is essentially an RWD system.)
Had the author compared it to a FWD MCS he had driven on the same track moments ago, i’d be further convinced. I’d expect to pay $32,000 and gain 350 lbs in a base AWD model.
Here’s the article that mentions a weight of 176lbs. <a></a>
Okay… 100th comment in 24 hours. Who wants to make it???
I will.
I don’t understand all the fuss over the weight issue. Everyone that posts about it makes it sound like ther cars are run only on a track. To be quite honest if a couple hunderd pounds are an issue I’m sure that there are ways to lighten the load. I truly doubt most drivers will even notice the difference.
Cheers,
Jack
I looked over the entire Getrag presentation and can find no reference to 176lbs, or 150lbs.
However, I did note a few other things.
1. All testing seems to have been done in snow or wet road conditions…and ofcourse the Twinster does well….but there doesn’t appear to be any testing on DRY surfaces. So how will the car corner under regular conditions?
2. Fuel consumptions costs?
3. Acceleration/power loss?
These things are just as important, if not MORE important than the wet weather handling.
Z4MINI you need to pay particular attention to the technical PDF file from Getrag with the graphs (<a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/files/getrag_awd.pdf" rel="ugc">https://www.motoringfile.com/files/getrag_awd.pdf</a>) . They do tests on dry pavement and in each of those tests the twinster set-up outperformed the FWD drive set-up.
Summarizing the high mu results.
p 21: Steady State Cornering Self Steering Characteristic
twinster’s 95kph betters fwd’s 86kph
p 26: Steer Step with Wide Open Throttle
twinster’s 85kph betters fwd’s 70kph
I had also read that the AWD getrag setup improved 0-60MPH straight-line accelleration by nearly a full second!
Link didn’t work last time. Search for AWD on Motoringfile and look for the More Info on the All-Wheel Drive Mini from Nov. 2004.
Here’s another shot at the link:
<a href="http://motoringfile.com/2004/11/09/more_info_on_the_all-wheel_drive_mini/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://motoringfile.com/2004/11/09/more_info_on_the_all-wheel_drive_mini/</a>
Here’s the article that has the link to the PDF presentation:
[ <a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/2005/06/29/getrags_all_wheel_drive_mini_in-depth" rel="nofollow">Getrag’s All Wheel Drive MINI In Depth</a> ] MotoringFile
(It’s also up in the right corner of every page under “featured articles”)
there’s no mention of suspension modifications so prosumably the same shocks/springs/bars/pressures and alignment specs were used for all layouts.
if so it would seen the stock FWD is at an advantage because the car is set up for that drive layout i.e. the twinster and others could potentially benefit more from further fine tuning…
Holy moly people have you lost all capacity for critical thought? That PDF is a marketing proposal that was written by Getrag using Getrag’s own testing. Do you believe everything you hear in advertising claims from companies marketing their own products?
I’m not saying that there are not certain advantages to the Twinster system — in fact it sounds pretty trick to me. To believe rumors like “improves 0-60 times by a full second” is like believing “take this pill to double the size of your member.”
There is very little reason for Getrag to fib on the testing data. A manufacturer would thoroughly test the car themselves regardless. If they proved any of the data incorrect I’m sure it would put any potential deal in jeopardy. Getrag has a very solid reputation among quite a few manufacturers. I’m sure they’d want to keep it that way.
I’ve read the comments. Thought about it a lot…
AWD ultimately is great for poor weather conditions. Yes, it is of benefit on some road courses as well, but in day to day enthusiatic driving, I’m uncertain of it’s necessity.
That said, the real need for awd arises here when discussing ultimate power output. For lots of power, give me a finely balanced RWD car (3 series anyone?). Anything much over 200hp in a FWD car is not a great proposition. It is helped by limited slip, but for ulitmate handling, the front tires are being asked to do way too much.
I love my MC b/c it is reasonably light, solid, and handles as if on rails. The only handling probs I observe are in the wet while taking tighter corners too quickly…although that is part of the fun!
In the end- MINI would find takers for an AWD Cooper S if the weight added is in the 150-200lbs range and price is around $1500.
Truth is- awd adds weight, price, and complication to manufacture and repair. And when the MINI starts hitting 325i territory is when I consider it to be too much…
Ultimate MINI would be a low spec 140hp Cooper model. That would be a sweet, reasonbly priced, sports car.
After reading the article, I find it very nice to have a “switch to activate the system”. This is good since sometimes you do not AWD all the time since it saves on gas too.
having a JCW MCS MY5 pre LSD, the only thing i feel i miss is the LSD to get the power down.
With JCW now a factory option, the savings over the cost of a dealer fitted JCW kit should cover the cost of an AWD factory option with JCW.
Its the only thing id swap my current MINI for, so yeah i say bring it on!
the twin scroll turbo should allow some room for easier boost increased power gains also, I WANT ONE
i would definetely buy one, my eyes closed.
Summer car: 04 JCW-MCS
Winter car: 00 Audi TT Quatro (nearing the 100k mark).
Would replace both cars in a hearbeat for a JCW-MCS-AWD. Just keep the price lower than a new TT (should be easy), and it’s a no brainer.
I own a 1998 Eagle Talon AWD Turbo. It’s got just under 18,000 original miles and I absolutely love it. I always tell everyone I know that if they have the opportunity to own an all-wheel-drive car – whatever it may be – that it is well worth the money. Yes, it’s heavy. And yes, there is a bit of turbo lag. But there’s something nostalgic about it and it is a wonderful car to experience. Now, I also own an ’05 MCS JCW and save for my clicking Web Spokes, which I still have to trade in for S-Lites, it is also a wonderful car to drive. However, they’re both completely different cars! Oddly, both have the same horsepower rated at 210bhp. Torque is different, though – 177 lbs-ft. in the S-Works and 214 lbs-ft. in the Talon. The Talon is also much heavier and bigger in general anyway. But they both make it to 60 mph from a standstill in about 6.4 seconds. The point is, AWD adds an element of grip unlike anything else, and you really have to experience it. It’s kind of like having your gall bladder removed after you’re in so much pain that you think you’re gonna die, or for the ladies having to experience child birth, or having all of your wisdom teeth removed at the age of 31 and the pain that lingers afterwards…you’ll never really know the agony until you’ve been through the experience. That’s what AWD is like. It’s just…incredible. I would welcome AWD to the MCS with the Works, but in my humble opinion it wouldn’t make much sense on anything else. AWD is an element that helps harness power and keep it on the ground. Personally, if price weren’t an issue, I’d love to own one! Remember, everything’s relative!!
yes – with added power to justify increased weight and cost.
just send me the parts to convert my mini. i definetly need awd on mine my tires spine way too much and the stupid traction control is anoying awd mini with 300 hp what else you want. send me the parts and bill me later please please please.