Recently on MotoringFile we heard the first reports of what it’s like to drive the next generation MINI. This week let’s take a look at the new engine that will be introduced in the 2007 MINI. However, before we talk about the MINI’s next generation engine and how it relates to the new PSA small car offerings, let’s have a general recap on the engine. ÂÂÂ
As most MF readers may know, several years ago BMW made the decision to partner with PSA (parent company to Citroen and Peugeot) to help build a new generation of 4 cylinder engines. While BMW could have easily taken on the task by themselves, the production numbers and the price point of the MINI dictated a joint effort to spread out the enormous development costs. This is a similar strategy to the one BMW entered into with Chrysler in the late 90’s to build the Tritec family of engines. However, the big change this time around was that BMW would be doing the majority of the design and engineering work rather than relying on another company. It’s no secret that there are folks within BMW who have been looking forward to seeing a more technologically advanced (or BMW-like if you will) engine in the MINI. After all, if there’s one thing that BMW does better than almost anyone, it’s design and engineer powerplants.ÂÂÂ
So in essence, this arrangement with PSA will give BMW the modern, home grown engine it wants for the MINI at a fraction of the development costs. With this arrangement, BMW was able to rely on PSA for economies of scale, logistics, and manufacturing expertise while they focused on engine development. This next generation engine will be produced for MINI at Hamms Hall in the UK while PSA will produce their own engines based on the same design in France.
Naturally, there are positives and negatives to seeing the MINI’s engine shared with another prominent automaker. First the downsides. For one, the engine will be less exclusive than the current Tritec (thanks in part to poor sales and export Chrysler products over the years). Another would be having the same engine produce more horsepower in rival cars from PSA. In fact, the latter point is looking like a very real possibility as Peugeot is set to introduce the 207GTI with around 180HP. Here’s an excerpt from Auto Express:
>Thanks to the firm’s current joint venture with BMW, the 207 GTi will share the same all-new, state-of-the-art 1.6-litre turbocharged direct-injection petrol engine that is set to power the next MINI Cooper S.
>But whereas the hottest MINI is likely to make do with 170bhp, the 207 GTi will have in excess of 180bhp, in order to compete with its muscular hot hatch rivals. “It’s a simple matter of tweaking the electronics to raise the power,” said a spokesman. That much thrust should propel the supermini from 0-60mph in less than seven seconds, and on to a top speed of nearly 140mph.
>As well as searing top-end punch, it should also have lots of power from idle, too. This is thanks to a clever ‘twin-scroll’ turbocharger, which is said to produce strong response at engine speeds as low as 1,400rpm, virtually eliminating lag.
Now let’s consider the upsides. First off the MINI may benefit from the Peugeot tuners work (OEM and aftermarket). On the OEM side there may be Peugeot OEM parts that could be imported to make the 170 bhp MINI into a 180 bhp MINI with stock parts. Then MINI owners may also benefit from being able to use parts from Peugeot tuners OR maybe better put that tuners would have more interest in tuning for the MINI because they could tune for both a MINI produced in greater numbers and the Peugeot GTi that would both have enthusiasts interested in tuning essentially the same engine.
It will be interesting to see if BMW engineers feel the need to respond with a HP increase of their own. It would seem a rather simple tweak on the face of it, especially considering the reports indicating that the JCW Cooper S will feature upwards of 230HP from the same engine.
You can read more about the next generation Peugeot GTI and it’s new MINI-related engine below:
[ Peugeot GTI Blasts Back ] Auto Express
this should be great once they work out the initial bugs. I can’t see why having an exclusive motor is anything good…the more that are out there, the cheaper parts become and more & more people take to making pars for them. (SBC, 5.0 Ford, Honda B series….) The more the merrier!
-jac
Precisely. We’re not buying an engine, we’re buying a <em>car</em>. Just because the MINI may share the engine with other cars, does not make the MINI any less special – the point is the complete package.
And hopefully… more folks will read this and realize that it’s NOT a French engine…
What is wrong with a French engine. They are fantastique. Vive le France.
Gabe, in some of the original talking about the new powerplant way back when, it was said that PSA would have some form of this engine in use in Europe a year before it was introduced in the states. Did that turn out to be false, or is one of these engines spinning wheels somewhere across the pond?
Let’s be sensible. Is BMW/MINI going to be beaten by Peugeot if it can help it? It’s a competitive, commercial world. Time is on the MINI’s side. Let Peugeot set the pace and MINI can match or exceed it. And if all it takes is a simple electronic tweak, then the manufacturer or the aftermarket suppliers will ensure that MINI fans are not left behind.
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again: For the states at least, this engine is 100% beneficial. The exclusiveness factor still applies here, if thats even a negative. New Engine = More Power + More Aftermarket opportunities. We are in desperate need of torque and power. A little kick in the boot would help, and this engine can do it. I am greatly anticipating the 2007 MINI line.
I tend to disagree. Sharing an engine with another competitor in the same class would appear to mean an equalisation of performance levels. A maximum number of 200,000 engines per year will be needed for MINI but how many others for the other manufacturers. Peugeot / Citroen are not going to allow MINI to out pace them on power outputs especially when they already produce Rally winning engines. So how is MINI going to get a performance edge?
<a href="http://www.peugeot.com/tradition/concept_cars/en/cc_20cup_fiche.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.peugeot.com/tradition/concept_cars/en/cc_20cup_fiche.htm</a>
The Peugeot 20Cup concept uses the new engine, recently reviewed on Fifth Gear, 11-21-2005 Episode.
Steve
Question:
Do you guys believe that there might be a chance to fit this engine into our current rides? Just a thought.
I tend to agree with Greg W above in that using the same engine across a number of models can often serve to dilute how special or unique the car feels, which for me is part of the Mini appeal. For example Nissan uses the same V6 in the 350Z, Altima, Maxima, and Infiniti models — and the VW group uses the 2.0T in several models from VW, Audi, Seat. Obviously this makes sense from the automaker’s perspective to save development and manufaturing costs, but I do think you risk making a component too common.
The new engine does sound like a solid product with its alloy block, direct injection, and twin-scroll turbo. Time will tell…but the supercharger and iron block of the current engine, while more “old skool” in design, makes for a (virtually) bombproof platfrom from which to tune. The new motor will have superior fuel and emissions efficiency, which is an important consideration for Mini/BMW given the products’ global market — but I’m not so certain that it will be better in terms of aftermarket, non-JCW tuning possibilities (which from BMW’s perspective could make sense as well…).
Dilute how special the car feels? I can’t speak for the Euromotorers represented here, but how many of those people reading this board will ever even RIDE in anything that Citroen or Peugeot ever rolls out? How a car “feels” is comprised of a number of factors, not just the powerplant.
With the new engine platform coming; Graham Robson had some interesting comments in his article in mc2 magazine.
The plans for the new engine projects millions of units being produced and shared with multiple companys.
Where does that leave everyone who purchased the first Tritec platform? How good is BMW/MINI at warehousing parts for older models?
I heard from BMW service advisors that they can still find parts for cars from the 70’s and 80’s. (Usually coming from Germany.) How long will BMW/MINI be loyal to their first generation clients?
I just wonder if the electronics packages will be compatable. Knowing the germans theirs will be unique and none of the tuning done for the pugeot will work in the MINI.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
<blockquote>Question:
Do you guys believe that there might be a chance to fit this engine into our current rides? Just a thought.</blockquote>
I believe there was a thread on NAM about this, one member spoke to one of the people that was testing the new 07’s. He said that the new engine fit pretty well in the current generation.
Of course, this can’t be 100% reliable info.
Physically I’m sure it would fit, but I think the electronics is what’s going to get you on a transplant.
I feel that direct injection, and, turbo charging are two huge benefits to those of us who like to tinker…
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the Tritec isn’t exactly an exclusive engine. I believe it is used in a European version of the Neon and I think the rights to use the engine were sold to a Chinese auto company a few months back.
<blockquote>Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the Tritec isn’t exactly an exclusive engine. I believe it is used in a European version of the Neon and I think the rights to use the engine were sold to a Chinese auto company a few months back.</blockquote>
Yup. But due to low sales of those export Neons, the engine has remained somewhat exclusive. That of course will change (at least in China) now that at least one Chinese manufacturer has bought rights to it.
Seems like we in the states get the best of both worlds – an engine with a large global market to entice aftermarket mfrs, but having it be the only car in the US with this engine for the uniqueness factor.
I wouldn’t worry at all about engine parts. There are aircraft engines from the 1920s that are still serviced, even with new parts. (Somebody is always finding a forgotten warehouse full of “pickled” World War II aircraft parts. It’s amazing.) As long as somebody is interested in keeping a Tritec running there will be a market for new and, if necessary, used parts.
Look at all the antique cars that are still running. You can keep your Tritec MINI running as long as you’d like, subject only to your tolerance for maintenance and parts bills as your car ages.
fdavid: Don’t get your hopes up. If you throw money at it, anything is possible, but I seriously doubt this will be anything like economical. Engine mounts will have to be re-engineered (either by you, or by a company that thinks there is a market for this) and as someone else pointed out, electronics will have to be linked up. Classic Mini’s are getting different engines all the time, but then again those are of a simpler base design, and there’s probably more to be gained there.
Bilbo: I would be surprised if engine electronics are not a considerable part (also in cost) of engine development, nowadays. It wouldn’t make sense to not do that in a joined effort as well. Any incompatibilities would therefore, I think, be artificial and probably not too hard to circumvent.
Parts availability: manufacturers are legally bound to supply spare parts for a number of years (don’t know how many) after production of a particular model has seized. Also, considering the lively after-market, chances are someone would jump in the gap if BMW stops supplying spares.
You want an exclusive engine? Buy a Ferrari… Oh, just like me eh? can’t afford one? Welcome to the real world. We are all proud owners of a very special, but inexpensive automobile, produced as a “world” car. The MINI IS unique and special, as we all can attest. However, having an engine produced in higher volume will not dilute anything as long as MINI maintains the “feel” of the car. IMHO.
if the next generation mini mcs 2007 comes out, is the shape still be the same as in mini mcs 2005/2006?
Personally, I like BMW engineered engines.
This is a BMW engineered engine made affordable for the MINI by cooperating with another manufacturer in the global ecomony to defray costs and give future MINI drivers a great new engine.
Do I enjoy the current Tritec? Yes, it’s solid, reasonably smooth with a great sound. But I much prefer the idea of a from scratch BMW engine.
Also, engine tuning from car to car and thus manufacturer to manufacturer will vary and direct comparisons of an engine are not always viable in these instances.
I can’t wait to drive the new car with the new engine.
I also know I’ll always own my ’04 MC!
Zebra: this news article is about the exterior design, and says that it will not change a lot. But there certainly will be some change, and more than between the ’04 and ’05. Just take a look at the picture in the article and compare it to the current model. That’s the level of change you can probably expect (I’m not saying that rendering will be spot on, I think it will just reflect the amount of change between the current model and the next one rather well – or at least, I hope it will).
thanks Eelke.
I saw some exterior differences between the current model and 2007’s.
I think the ’07 exterior shape is not as smooth as the ’06.
Do you know, if I’d like to buy MCS’07 – could I get the 2006 shape – because I lean towards MCS’06 shape? how about you?
Thanks.
Z
Not sure what you mean. The ’07 is gonna be a new model. It will very clearly be a Mini, but it’s gonna be a new model. If you want the ’06 shape, you need to get an ’06 model. Not sure until when you will be able to get one, probably somewhere until half-way to september 2006, but do remember that cars tend to devaluate a tad quicker if a new model is around the corner.
i really hope the aftermarket offers a supercharger, after 5 years of driving a turbo car, i can’t stand the lag, espeically at an autox or at the track.