The name change from “One Diesel” to “Cooper Diesel” alone should give you a hint at how MINI intends this new car to up the diesel performance ante. The newly redesigned Car Magazine has the latest on what to expect:
>The Mini Cooper diesel will run the 1.6-litre HDi four, which features in Peugeot-Citroen and Ford cars. Peak power is 110bhp, with 180lb ft of torque on tap. Those outputs shame the outgoing Mini One D, whose 1.4-litre Toyota engine yielded 74bhp and 140lb ft.
[ Punchy diesel bound for Mini Cooper ] Car Magazine
Very interesting! Still, I’ll keep my MCS, but I hope this one comes stateside.
Yeah, that’s the $64,000 question. Will a new diesel powerplant finally make it to the states?
<blockquote>Yeah, that’s the $64,000 question. Will a new diesel powerplant finally make it to the states?</blockquote>
To quote an englishman: “Not likely chaps, not bloody likely”.
At least the CM author got the “Clubman” name correct in the article!
Rich.
WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY!
Europe is running these wonderful diesel engines and we are still using gasoline. I was in Italy for 2 weeks and had a wonderful Alfa Romeo with a turbo diesel and it was fantastic and used less that 3/4 tank of gas the whole time, and we drive everywhere.
We need to start demanding alternative fuels and technology.
Bring it to the US.
Add a hybrid drive train.
And AWD of course.
Oh woops, there I go dreaming again… 😉
If I recall correctly, it’s actually an emissions issue. Those little diesels sip fuel but belch smoke so in states like California that have really stringent emissions standards, it’s tough to get euro-spec diesels approved. That said, however, VW has been running the TDI motor in the states for years. I was just hoping that this new engine was perhaps clean enough to jump the pond.
Maybe it’s on my head, but I’ve always had a soft spot for diesel cars. Since I got my ’03 MSC I’ve become mostly a commuter driver, so I’d swap for a tricked out MC diesel in a second.
VW’s TDI is not available to the residents of California due to CARB restrictions. BMW’s 50 state policy gives MINI the excuse not to bring over the Cooper D. So I guess the big rigs running cummins, etc., are exempt from CARB.
Supposedly, a uni has built a diesel catalytic prototype that scrubs the exhaust to less than CARB standards. I thought Audi has new TDI tech (running on the ALMS prototype) that has lower emissions as well. there is also the urea injection tech, but who needs another tank to fill.
It is my understanding that BMW plans to bring diesels to the US in 08. They should meet CA guide lines with the help of the low sulfur diesel….or so I thought.
My husband is a diesel fanatic. He just (early 2006) purchased the Jeep Liberty in a diesel as it was going to be unavailable for this year as are all diesels. There is a new standard that all diesels will have to comply to which will make them burn cleaner and use the “new” diesel fuel which is also cleaner. I’m not sure if this is the current European standard or if it is something only the states is requiring.
Did I hear right, someone wants a Mini hybrid? Sheesh. I’ll take a diesel for fuel economy anyday over a lack luster, average gas consumtion for most drivers, hybrid. I think a diesel could hold it’s own as a seller here in the States. It would be at the bottom of the the 3 engines, but still should be enough to justify throwing them on the ship that’s already coming over anyway.
Hmmm, sounds a cool car… great power spread and torque… how does this balance against the petrol cooper….. and does it make the petrol cooper an irrelevance in the European markets…. ?
But VW had to phase out some diesels, like in the Passat because the emission standards were coming into effect.
I like diesels myself, but the economics aren’t as good as you would expect if you have to have the tight emissions controls. The fuel is much more expensive to produce, and the emission control devices on the engines are expensive to manufacture. VW didn’t want to produce an engine just for the US market because the business case just wasn’t valid. Same is true for other manufacturers.
Diesel is still MUCH more expensive than gasoline where I live. Almost 25% more. So you’d have to get a huge boost in fuel economy to make back the initial investment during the time you own the car. Or drive 50k miles a year.
>VW’s TDI is not available to the residents of California due to CARB restrictions. BMW’s 50 state policy gives MINI the excuse not to bring over the Cooper D. So I guess the big rigs running cummins, etc., are exempt from CARB.
Those trucks follow a different standard due to their weight. But they are still running on the new fuel that is coming out or is already available.
>Diesel is still MUCH more expensive than gasoline where I live. Almost 25% more. So you’d have to get a huge boost in fuel economy to make back the initial investment during the time you own the car. Or drive 50k miles a year.
Here in CA and NV diesel costs about the same as premium currently, depending on where you go.
I’d still drive one. You wouldn’t even have to ask me twice!
My understanding is it will be academic for the car manufacturers to bring euro-spec diesels to the states with the new mandated diesel fuel. Plus tech doesn’t stand still. So the euro-spec diesels in 08 may be good enough to meet CARB or better.
As for the gas vs diesel debate, it works out to 9k miles a year not 50k as the break even point. Exceed that, and a diesel will be lower in cost to own and operate. That’s from a study done by the German equivalent of the AAA.
Well, our Big Hat national <em>leader</em> refused to sign and ratify protocols of the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
So, either the other 163 countries are shamelessly misinformed or I should do my bit. Burnin’ cleaner premium fuel: trying.
<a href="http://www.kyotoandbeyond.org/index.html" rel="nofollow">Wanna check it out?</a>
clean diesel fuel arrived in the US on oct. 15th.
<a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0605/p02s01-sten.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0605/p02s01-sten.html</a>
<a href="http://www.dieselforum.org/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dieselforum.org/</a>
with luck it will help to get the new Cooper Diesel over here faster.
Plus, conversion to Bio-diesel would be sweet! A french-fry oil powered Mini? I’m there!
Actually, the break even point is plummetting now – there is so much demand for diesels in europe, that they are becoming the engine of choice, and manufaturing costs are coming down. Some companies are even offerring diesels for the same price as their petrol equivalent….
within 2-3 years all the big players will be running diesels at LeMans unless theres a prohibitive rule chnage…..
Petrol engine development has slowed during recent years, yet diesel development gathers pace. You can even get diesel powered convertibles now, as the engines have been cleaned up and dont quite sound as bad as they used to…
My large diesel car does 650 miles easy on the same cost fuel as my MCS Work used to do 220. Not so much fun, but with fuel at around $7 a gallon in the UK, fun just costs too much.
The break even point in the UK or Germany will be MUCH lower than in the US. When gasoline is $1.88 and diesel is $2.49, getting an extra 10 MPG isn’t going to cut it. If the diesel Cooper was the same price as the gasoline version, then I might buy one. Otherwise it just doesn’t make sense.
Of course, the ultra low sulfur diesel might not always be so expensive. If the costs drop to make it competative per gallon to gasoline, then sure, it would be worth it for most drivers.
Chad, you might want to consider a few things before writing the big D off entirely. Their resale values are much higher than their gas brothers. The standard Cooper and S require premium unleaded which is priced much more closely to diesel than your quotes. And, it’s pretty unlikely that the MINI D will be priced over the S based on the current euro pricing. Besides, as the new year progresses and more stations start carrying the low-sulfur diesel, the price will inevitably drop. Trucking always forces the prices back down to where they need to be.
Well…considering that the House and the Senate are now control by,”you know who”,…the MINI Diesel might get here a lot sooner,than later…
As a MINI enthusiast (g/f has an ’03 MCS) and current owner of a ’03 TDI wagon, I’ll say that living with a diesel isn’t all that bad. When I first bought my car in ’03, gas was cheap at around $1.50/gal. Diesel similar. Calcualted payback was roughtly 70K miles. Incidentally, I actually got a smoking deal on my car – about $2K under MSRP – although I did have to wait 10 weeks for it to be built and shipped. ’03 was the last year VW offered option-ordering that sort of approached the MINI. I could not have ordered my car in ’04 as while the individual package option combos were available, the combination I have was not.
However, when gas prices skyrocketed to $3/gal, the deisel option paid for itself very quickly over the 30-40K miles I drive during a year. Resale value has also stayed very high. Jetta wagons are rare. TDI versions even more so. Only a few months ago, I saw an ’03 for sale w/ 48K miles and asking $23K. I only paid $21K for mine and mine is better equiped.
Now while I’d love a MINI diesel, I can’t say for sure right now. My car will finally be paid for in ’08 and I’m not keen to dump it and dive into another loan. I plan to keep the TDI for at least 250-300K miles which would put me in the market for a replacement sometime around 2013 at my current driving rate. Original concerns about VW reliablity have been moot. The car has been rock-reliable for over 104K miles. unfortunately, we can’t say the same for the g/f’s MCS. I do all maintenance on it myself.
The point is, you buy a diesel for the long haul. If you are one to switch cars every few years, I doubt you’ll see much of a payback. If you are one to drive your car into the ground (like me), then a diesel has some nice benefits.
Send us the diesel! The thought of a fun to drive car that gets great fuel mileage is fantastic. Diesel fuel is more expensive but it’s against the grain of everything else. I doubt that MINI will bring it here, but it would be great if to see it available as a special order item.
<blockquote>and does it make the petrol cooper an irrelevance in the European markets…. ?</blockquote>
You should understand that Diesel over here is still playing catchup in terms of image when it comes to “performance” cars. This is changing slowly (I think the whole thing took a big leap when Audi won Le Mans with a Diesel engine this year, but just how huge this news was alone should tell you how people think about Diesel engines), but it’s not a fought battle by a long shot and there will still be many people who prefer a petrol engine.
I own an 03 MCS and don’t plan on changing it at least until there is an R56 Convertible, but if there is a diesel along with the new 90%-less sulfur fuel, I would buy it.
I lived in Argentina for a few years and people would gladly pay more money to buy a diesel engine car. The engine lasts longer (apparently) and the fuel indicator DOES NOT GO DOWN.
It’s ridicules the difference in gas economy a diesel makes. Plus there is loads of torque.
-Brian
180 lbs of torque is more than the cooper “S” has.
What is the catch that I am missing?
It looks like BMW is stepping up their timeline on bringing diesels to the US:
<a href="http://news.windingroad.com/auto-news/wr-exclusive-bmw-defines-diesel-strategy-for-north-america/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://news.windingroad.com/auto-news/wr-exclusive-bmw-defines-diesel-strategy-for-north-america/</a>
Let’s hope this means’s they’ll make it to the MINI in a performance version.
<blockquote>180 lbs of torque is more than the cooper “S†has.
What is the catch that I am missing?
</blockquote>
The catch is a torque peak around 2500 rpm and a redline of around 4500rpm (typical #’s for a diesel). This means a rather narrow power band.
Good: you have to shift gears A LOT to stay in the power band.
Bad: you kind of feel like you’re killing the engine during any sort of performance driving (I’ve done MINI runs in my TDI).
A car as fun to drive as a MINI equipped with a torquey, efficient diesel would be terrific! I’ve wanted MINI to sell a diesel Cooper here in the States ever since I first learned of the European market One Diesel back in 2002.
It would be tremendously disappointing if they decided not to bring it over because they feared it might damage MINI’s reputation in the U.S. as a sporty line of cars, since my perspective on it is exactly the reverse: Putting a diesel in a Cooper would be an ideal way to educate people about how sporty, fun and livable a diesel can be.
Please bring over the Cooper Diesel, MINI! And even better, PLEASE make it available as a convertible, too!
I’ve been dreaming about owning a mini cooper for years now and after driving a Ford rental in France last year with a 1.6 turbo diesel that netted me 55 mpg in combined city/mountain/highway driving, and that had PLENTY of zip. I would kill to get to the head of the waiting line if they ever sell a mini here similarly equipped. Galls me that CARB standards might keep it out while I am surrounded by big pickups and SUVs with hugh diesel V8s and occupied by one person.
When we get some diesel cars here THEN we will have a vehicle that can live SAFELY in the garage with the gas water heater and space heater. Until then no cars, or anything else with gasoline, in my garage.
DIESEL: Why not? I drove an Opel Aviva back in the mid 90’s. Lots of power, for such a small engined car, and fantastic mileage. Whay can’t the Mini come here to the USA and give similar results? They claim close to 60mpg, lots of torque, and very decent horsepower readings. Here in the USA must start to realize that either we must change, or lose performance, all together. To me, Diesel is the answer, and what better way than with a Mini-Cooper diesel here. Banks is doing alot with turbo charged big diesels, I’m sure he’d do the same for our little Mini’s too. 150 horsepower and 240 ft. lbs. of torque, would REALLY wake up this vehicle. Sounds good to me, and it appears that 08 will bring out, at least some diesels from Europe, but let me tell you, Japan will fight it.
I drive a 1985 VW diesel- 42MPG city, 60MPG highway- I would buy a Mini Diesel in a Heartbeat- In fact, I have the CASH IN HAND!- (Hay, when you get 60mpg, you have money left over for other things- like a new Mini D!)