The 1 Series Question Gets More Interesting

Several years back we posed the question; what does the BMW 1 Series mean for the MINI? Up until a few days ago the BMW 1 Series was a 5 door hatch that was the closest thing BMW sold to a MINI that was, well not a MINI. We wondered how this (at the time) new small hatch could potentially cannibalize sales of everyone’s favorite small car. That question just got a whole lot more interesting this week as BMW finally released the two door hatchback version of the 1 Series and hinted that it will end up in the US. This gives the MINI some true competition within the BMW Group family and MINI owners potentially something else to consider as they car shop.
Available in a wide range of engines (from a 143hp to eventually over 300hp) the two door 1 Series could certainly be considered a MINI competitor. And with such advanced features as regenerative braking, a magnesium engine block, RWD, 50/50 weight distribution and Bi-Vanos technology, the 1 Series could potentially appeal to many of the same small car enthusiasts that have fallen for the MINI.
Of course for those in the US, the 1 Series has remained an elusive vehicle. Since its release BMW has insisted that hatchbacks won’t sell in the US market (yes, a bit ironic) and that they would only consider importing the 1 Series if it was designed as a 2 or 4 door sedan. However it now looks like BMW may bend on this policy. WindingRoad reported yesterday that BMW plans on releasing the 1 Series two door coupe to the US market in early 2008 with the exceptional 3.0L 300hp twin turbo engine. They also report that this could very well be just the tip of the ice-burg and that more 1 Series variations may follow. Look for an official anouncement should be made later this year.
So with all these recent developments regarding the small Bimmer, we thought it was worth asking you our readers, your thoughts on this potential MINI competitor. What do you think about the car, the technology, and the engines? Does the BMW brand appeal to you as a MINI owners? Could it conceivably replace your MINI if you were looking for something a touch bigger with more power? Do you think it’s good or the MINI brand to have this type of competition directly from BMW? Let’s hear your take in the comment section below.
Update: Since several people are curious about potential pricing, Windingroad reports that:
>Pricing for the car will have to fall smack dab between the 3-series and MINI. The pricing differential in the two six-cylinder engines described above is $5,000 dollars, so expect that same ratio for the 1-series models.
If we had to guess at a price given BMW’s historical pricing structure and recent tendencies, we’d expect the 135i 3-door to start at least in the low to mid 30k range (empahsis on “mid”). The 130i 3-door would probably fall below 30k.
For a bit more background information on the car, here’s the full press release from BMW UK:
>The new BMW 1 Series goes on sale in Spring 2007 and features a model line up that includes the most fuel efficient production vehicle BMW has ever produced. The introduction of a three-door model and a revised five-door come as a raft of new fuel-saving innovations are rolled out across the range.
Technologies such as Brake Energy Regeneration, Automatic Start-Stop function and Electric Power Steering are combined with lower rolling resistant tyres and a gearshift change indicator to encourage economical motoring. These innovations are in addition to the use of variable valve technologies and High-Precision Direct Injection engines on some 1 Series models that boost power output but cut fuel consumption and emissions.
>The BMW 118d, BMW’s most economical car, manages its record 60.1mpg figure courtesy of these features in conjunction with the use of further lightweight engineering. The car now has an aluminum crankcase to save weight. Aside from the BMW Hydrogen 7, the BMW 118d also posts the lowest ever CO2 emissions of any BMW recording 123g/km (putting it into the Band C category for Vehicle Excise Duty).
>Other engines in the new 1 Series range record economy improvements of up to 24 per cent compared to the previous model, while emissions have also been cut by up to 21 per cent. These improvements have not been to the detriment of driving pleasure. The new 1 Series is powered by a range of engines whose outputs have increased by up to 20hp with a consequential improvement in performance figures.
>Brake Energy Regeneration (iGR) makes its debut on the 1 Series. The system uses an Intelligent Alternator Control (IAC) and an Absorbent Glass Mat battery to recycle previously lost energy, in turn saving fuel. This is achieved as the IAC reduces drag on the engine by only engaging when required to charge the battery, whereas a traditional alternator is always pulling power from the engine. Additionally, the energy generated by the engine on over-run (under braking or descending a hill) was previously wasted. Now this lost energy is utilized by the IAC to charge the battery. iGR alone is responsible for a three per cent improvement in fuel economy.
>The new 1 Series comes with Automatic Start-Stop function to cut fuel consumption. Standard on all manual transmission models (except 130i), the system automatically switches the engine off when the vehicle is stationary and the driver puts the car into neutral. To restart the driver only need engage the clutch again before pulling away in the normal manner. Should he not want to use the Automatic Start-Stop function it can be manually switched off.
>The use of Electric Power Steering results in a 90 per cent energy saving compared to a conventional mechanical hydraulic steering system. Power assistance is now provided by an electric motor that works only when required, such as turning a corner. Other fuel saving enhancements have been made courtesy of various ancillary devices, such as the air-conditioning power supply being disconnected from the drive-train when not in use. Even flaps behind the kidney grille improve economy, closing up for improved aerodynamic efficiency should the engine require less airflow. The feature also improves cold starting times.
>130i: World’s lightest six-cylinder production engine with VALVETRONIC and Bi-VANOS technology achieves zero to 62mph in 6.0 seconds (five-door is 6.1 seconds) and an electronically limited top speed of 155mph. Output is 265bhp while peak torque is 315Nm. Combined fuel consumption is 34.0mpg and CO2 emissions are 197g/km.
>120i: New four-cylinder engine with High-Precision Direct Injection and Bi-VANOS technology achieves zero to 62mph in 7.7 seconds (7.8 seconds for five-door) before going on to a top speed of 139mph. Output is 170hp (up 20hp) while peak torque is now 210Nm (up 10Nm). Combined fuel consumption is 44.1mpg (improves by 17 per cent), CO2 emissions are 152g/km (down 16 per cent).
>118i: New four-cylinder engine with High-Precision Direct Injection and Bi-VANOS technology achieves zero to 62mpg in 8.7 seconds (8.8 seconds for five-door) before going on to a top speed of 130mph. Output is 143hp (up 14hp) while peak torque is now 190Nm (up 10Nm). Combined fuel consumption is 47.9mpg (improves by 24 per cent), CO2 emissions are 140g/km (down 20.5 per cent).
>116i (five-door only): Four-cylinder engine with Bi-VANOS achieves zero to 62mph in 10.9 seconds and a top speed of 124mph. Output is 116hp and peak torque is 150Nm. Combined fuel consumption is 37.7mpg and CO2 emissions are 179g/km.
>120d: Second generation common-rail diesel engine with aluminium crankcase achieves zero to 62mph in 7.5 seconds (7.6 seconds for five-door) before going on to a top speed of 142mph. Output is 177hp (up 14hp) while peak torque is 350Nm (up 10Nm). Combined fuel consumption is 57.6mpg (improves by 16 per cent) and CO2 emissions are 129g/km (down 15.1 per cent).
>118d: Second generation common-rail diesel engine with aluminium crankcase achieves zero to 62mph in 8.9 seconds (9.0 seconds for five door) before going on to a top speed of 130mph. Output is 143hp (up 21 hp) while peak torque is 300Nm (up 20Nm). Combined fuel consumption is 60.1mpg (improves by 19 per cent) and CO2 emissions are 123g/km (down 18 per cent).
>The plethora of new technology showcased in the BMW 1 Series will have a significant impact on cost of ownership for customers. For the company car driver all but two engine variants now sit in the Band C category for Vehicle Excise Duty. This results in a saving of up to £505 for someone paying 40 per cent tax and up to £278 for those in the 22 per cent tax bracket. For all owners fuel consumption improvement means a 12,000 miles-a-year driver will save approximately £250 off the fuel bill.
>All BMW 1 Series models come with Dynamic Stability Control with Dynamic Traction Control for the best combination driving pleasure and safety. DSC allows drivers to make the most of the 1 Series’ 50:50 weight distribution and rear-wheel-drive configuration for the best on-road performance. The BMW 130i comes with five additional functions with its DSC+ system for enhanced convenience and driver safety: Hill Start Assistant, Brake Pre-tensioning, Brake Drying, Brake Fade Compensation and Soft Stop.
>All BMW 1 Series have six airbags as standard, the Brake Force Display function on the rear lights to highlight sharp braking and Run-flat tyres with Tyre Puncture Warning System.
>To herald the introduction of the latest generation of engines, BMW’s designers have refreshed the interior and exterior styling of the five-door model. The 1 Series now features a larger kidney grille for improved airflow to the engine. The lower front spoiler has also been re-profiled to create a larger air intake, while the spoiler protrudes further for a more pronounced, sporting look. The headlamp cluster remains the same size but a darker cover gives a subtle, more distinguished front end.
>At the rear a restyled bumper gives the impression of a wider, lower car. The rear lamp cluster now features a new arrangement of lights, but retains its original shape.
>The new three-door 1 Series features the same styling cues but its side view is naturally different. The passenger doors are longer than those on the five-door model and are also frameless in the style of a coupé. Inside, customers will also be able to choose between either a four-seat or a five-seat configuration. In the four-seat arrangement rear passengers are separated by a central storage compartment and sit in more sculptured seats. As a no-cost option the five-seat layout offers the traditional bench seat standard on the five-door 1 Series. The introduction of higher quality materials and minor changes to the layout of the interior enhance customer comfort and practicality.
>The new 1 Series comes with MP3 and USB stick capability for the best in in-car entertainment. Customers with their favourite music loaded on an Apple iPod or a USB stick can now plug these into the car to continue their listening. Tracks are selected via steering wheel controls or the iDrive system.
>The optional Adaptive Headlights that turn to follow the intended course of the car have been improved on the 1 Series. Cornering light function is added to the package as standard. This means two additional lights turn at speeds of between 22 and 40mph to further illuminate the direction of travel on a twisting road.
>Since its launch in September 2004, the BMW 1 Series has proved a popular choice. In the UK with 51,492 sold to date and in excess of 200,000 worldwide. The new three- and five-door BMW 1 Series models will be on display at the Geneva Motor Show in March and go on sale in the UK at the same time.
Source: BMW UK Press
80 Comments
Early 2008, hmmmmmmm, if the price is right, I may be rethinking my Clubman purchase.
I question the inteligence of BMW’s choice. I for one would love a 300hp turbo charged engine. I’m sure that the handling would be comparable to the MINI’s. It will definately draw away the small car buyer, leaving MINI with more the the styling enthusiasts (IMHO), which will lead to a decrease in sales.
BMW would need to price it considereable more than the MINI in order to keep some sort of segmentation between the two. Otherwise its almost like BMW is giving up on MINI, and that would be a sad day.
Bring it here…MINI US sales surpass UK MINI sales. That trend will continue. The 1 series opens up another US market segment in the US for BMW. It also expands the BMW brand evolution. (consumers entering the BMW product family with more entry level options, get them hooked on the BMW driving experience sooner)
The MINI customer is unique.
The MINI is a very individual purchasing experience.
BMW has always under estimated the total US auto market segment share they are capable is securing.
I would buy this car today to replace our “compact SUV”. But it’s gotta have four doors. I think its a mistake to only bring the two door hatch. Don’t get me wrong, the two door is beautiful, but four doors is probably seen as more practical for most US buyers.
What will the base prices be in USD?
The MINI and the BMW 1-series are similar products, yet I would not consider them direct competitors. There will be a US market for both.
1-Series: RWD, capacity for 5 people, decent cargo space.
MINI: FWD, Go-Kart Handling, unique style.
Both are great fun, yet each fulfills a different function.
BMW NA: PLEEEEASE Bring the 1-sieries SOON!!!
Interesting, I think generally MINI will be fine. This may take some MINI buyers away, but isn’t that what MINI is for anyway, to get people into the BMW brand?
I think it is surprising that the rumored introduction is almost in direct contrast to most BMW product roll-outs. The bigger engines first? The coupe before the 4-door (“5-door”)? I really would’ve guessed them to roll it out against the A3, and just above the Cooper and/or Clubman, so I’m surprised that the 2-door would come first.
If the 1 series (Ugly as it may be) can provide the same or better performance as it’s VAG competitors but with the same reliability of MINI and BMW then I’m in. I would prefer 4 doors as well, but will take what I can get.
As I’ve become more of a driving enthusiast in the past few years, I’ve come to appreciate BMWs more and more. I think my heart skipped a couple of beats when I read on Jalopnik (just before seeing this post) that BMW will bring us the 1-series, especially one with that biturbo six. I love my MINI unequivocally, but I think I would really enjoy driving a rear-wheel-drive small sports car. But the more I think about all the technology BMW’s purportedly cramming into this small car, the more skeptical I become of it really being a driver’s car in the same way that the R53 is. Price is a major consideration, too; I can’t justify $35,000 on a car that might be a replacement for the MINI (I spent too much on my ’06 MCS as it is). Maybe what I want is a slightly less-extreme Elise… Anyway, I always think competition is good, and if the price is reasonable and the driving dynamics are as good as I would expect them to be from BMW I’ll definitely drive one and see if it’s a viable stable-mate (or gasp replacement) for my MINI.
The two products probably wont compete in the same market segments. Mini (how ever cool) simply does not have the fit/finish that BMW products have…
That said, I would totally buy a 1 series
My MINI gives me so much more than a “driving experience” – there’s the smiles every time I look at it or get in it, there’s the camaraderie with so many great MINI friends (<a href="http://www.gbmini.net/wp/2007/01/lucky_bill_and_the_babe_rally/" rel="nofollow">for example</a>).
I don’t see that happening for a “BMW pug” – which is the attitude the little guy is likely to get from the “grown up BMW” owners.
I’d consider those diesel versions, for sure. But it’s a cost question more than anything. How does a $30K MCS compare to a $30K 1? Or are we looking at $40K?
I’ve never been particularly interested in driving a straight-up BMW.
Winding road said the price would split the 3 series and the MINI. So let’s say base of 22k for MINI MCS and 35k for 328 coupe. That gives us about 28k for a 130i and 33k for a 135i. I would think it will definitely come in under 30k for marketing. That’s pretty appealing just on a performance basis given that the 130i is as fast as it is, 3000lbs and 50/50 weighting. The 135i would be evil at any price. They will have more standard features that MINI also.
I am impressed with the gas mileage and low emissions, as well as the multiple engine choices/body styles available. I’ll have to see it in person, and like Mark, the first commenter, I will be cross-shopping this with the Clubman. If the handling is close to the MINI’s, it may represent some serious competition for the MINI brand. Obviously, price points would have a huge influence on the amount of competition it provides.
i saw more than a few 1-series during my recent trip to Germany. granted, i’m fond of what Bangle’s done with BMW, nevertheless, the 1 looks far better in person than is depicted in photographs. the only question for me is when will BMW start taking deposits, assuming i can convince the wife that this would make a good family car. that sell would be a lot easier if they’d bring the 5-door.
As far as looks, the MINI winds hands down against the 1 series. The 1 series is just plain goofy looking (as are all BMWs right now).
But a 135i (coupe or sedan) would handle and perform so well that I’d probably be able to get past the looks.
RWD on a hatchback – hell yes! Have we ever had that option in the States? (BTW I don’t consider a Nissan 240SX to be a true hatchback)
A 1-series would definitely be under consideration for me given its superior weight distribution, aforementioned RWD, and more functional, less Fisher Price like interior compared to the R56.
BTW you can check out a bunch of high res photos over at mwerks…
In a word “Yes”.
The problem is that in the US, the hatchback is considered to be a lesser vehicle, inferior to sedans and coupes. We also consider a small car to be inferior to a large car.
BMW doesn’t want its dealers or brand to be thought of as inferior in any way, and the dealers are even worse about that (which is why, IMO, some of them will never be MINI dealers however successful that brand).
BMW wants to take that MINI market and hand it to the BMW dealers who won’t carry MINI. After all, why own a fake BMW hot-hatch (MINI) when you can buy a real BMW (1 Series)?
If the 1 series is released in the US, it might actually make Audi market the A3.
I’ll be curious to see the advertising campaign to get a better feel for who BMW thinks the car should be marketed to. I would imagine thay will clerverly try to market the car differently, while not alienating the MINI brand. Granted, this doesn’t mean people will see the car and want it regardless of being in or out of the “target” demographic. But that will be inteesting to me.
Personally, I can’t say if the 1-series would interest me or not, say if it were available 2+ years ago when I bought my MINI. It’s a tough one. The BMW moniker does have a different feel and makes a different statement overall than the MINI moniker. This is not good or bad, it just is.
It will be interesting to track this, thanks for the detail.
Well, Given the strong lust for performance shown to the MCS over at NAM…..I would say that about 50% of current MCS owners would opt for a 1 series replacement. So I see 20-25% of current prospective MINI buyers to be swayed to BMW 1 series. I think it is BMW recognizing that the demand for a performance drivers small car outstrips the oxford plants capacity even with expansion. The MINI will be relegated to the cute spunky trendy small car market….
I’ll jump in on the brand question. Does a 1-Series BMW hatchback coupe encroach on the place MINI holds in the mind of consumers?
No way. Not for new customers anyway.
The propeller on the grill instantly pushes the 1-Series off many of the potential MINI owners’ radar. Enthusiast drivers may see the correlations and performance upgrades in going from the FWD MINI to a RWD 50:50 BMW, but the majority of the driving public will not make the connection. Secondly, the MINI has just enough economy car street cred that the cost differential – even if they do split the price point between the MCS and the 325i – will again push it off the radar of most of the folks who might find themselves shopping for a MINI. I know that I for one wouldn’t have gotten my MCS were it any more expensive – by the sheer practical reality of not being able to afford it.
But that really doesn’t have anything to do with brand. These two cars, for the most part, have different constituents and their respective brands have different values. “Let’s Motor” and “The ultimate driving machine” have separate followings and unique connotations. I know I for one wouldn’t know or care a lick about this story if it hadn’t shown up on MotoringFile. A 1-series BMW will never evoke the kind of fun enthusiasm found in a MINI. Even if it is more performance, or more options, or RWD – it still won’t have the charm and character of the MINI. It isn’t as though this is the first car to offer more room and more hp than the MINI. In my mind, I almost see this as more of a competitor for the VW GTi, or at the very worst, the upcoming MINI Clubman. But even then, the 5-door 1-series is the only one that interests me. I’m not paying a dime more than I did for my MCS for any car that isn’t significantly bigger. So would a 1-series replace my MINI?
No way. But what about a second car?
That is the one instance when I consider the possibility of a 1-series BMW. After the fantastic experience I’ve had with my MINI, BMW has certainly sparked my interest as an eventual second vehicle. But I’d have to see the 5-door in person, drive it of course, and see if it strikes a good balance between performance, utility, and interior room. Otherwise, I may instead try to charm Gabe’s 3-series wagon away from him. 😉
I think I’d buy one. I don’t think it crosses into the MINI market personally, as the roundel alone attracts a different crowd generally. Personally, I am really turned off by the snob factor that BMW has. What has always attracted me to the MINI is the Q-car effect – a car that most think is just cute, but I know can dust just about anything on the road in the twisties, including most BMWs.
The fact that many BMWs are driven by women trying to make sure everyone knows they drive a BMW has always kept me away from seriously considering them (sorry if that offends, but just trying to make a point).
Given that, the 1 series actually is pretty attractive to me. It might be that it hasn’t come over yet, so it doesn’t have an established customer base yet, and by default, a stigma (e.g. BMWs are driven by rich women who wear them like jewelry and drive them into the curb while they are putting on their makeup).
I want the performance I’m used to, I would like to move up to something that doesn’t rattle like a snake, I crave a rear wheel drive car again, I like a fuel efficient car, I hate large beastie trucks and SUVs…this car, at least at this point, is really appealing to me.
Now once it arrives and starts to become the de facto sugar daddy birthday present for all 16 year old spoiled girls (like the old 318), I may feel completely different.
The 1 series hatch will definitely canabalize MINI sales. There’s not a doubt in my mind. I too, was very excited to read the news of a 1 series hatch coming to the US, with that wonderful 300 HP biturbo engine driving the rear wheels. I certainly could see myself saying goodbye to MINI with a car like that…
I would love to have one of these, especially if it comes in a 2-door coupe.
I’ll have to save my pennies, though. I won’t be trading in the R50.
Would it be wrong to assume this will price much lower than a Z4 hatchback? I would love one of those, but the price is too steep for me to justify it.
BMW is wise enough that they will not have the two cars competing with one another. I’m guessing that the one will be more closely priced to a z4/z4 coupe.
I am planning to keep my 2002 MCS JCW forever. But I would consider the 1 series if and when I decide to move on from my current daily driver the 2005 MC.
<b>Update:</b> Since several people are curious about potential pricing, Windingroad reports that:
>Pricing for the car will have to fall smack dab between the 3-series and MINI. The pricing differential in the two six-cylinder engines described above is $5,000 dollars, so expect that same ratio for the 1-series models.
If we had to guess at a price given BMW’s historical pricing structure and recent tendencies, we’d expect the 135i 3-door to start at least in the low to mid 30k range (empahsis on “mid”). The 130i 3-door would probably fall below 30k.
>BMW wants to take that MINI market and hand it to the BMW dealers who won’t carry MINI. After all, why own a fake BMW hot-hatch (MINI) when you can buy a real BMW (1 Series)?
Just to clear something up… BMW chooses the dealers who sell the MINI. If dealers could choose… there would be a helluva a lot more MINI dealers in the US.
>But I’d have to see the 5-door in person, drive it of course, and see if it strikes a good balance between performance, utility, and interior room. Otherwise, I may instead try to charm Gabe’s 3-series wagon away from him. 😉
May be a long wait. I already have two offers on the table and I’m not planning on selling anytime soon 🙂
At long last a decent(ish) 1 Series and I really like it in the picture in white. For this type of car though I still rate the Mini above the 1 Series as it for the more mature buyer! Havi8ng said this I am sure it will be a great car – still not 100% on the styling though!
This is a tough one to answer. My initial opinion is that the vehicle would NOT actually compete with the MINI, but it would leave questions in the minds of some MINI owners and other potential non-BMW (BMW or MINI) owners who do not yet own the product, at any level. This is the 1 series, and someone mentioned the A3. Well, I see it potentially competing with the A3, and not the MINI. Additional potential Action Item: Buy MINI as first car. Buy BMW-1 as second car. Enjoy both. 😀
On a side note, could you imagine the MINI with the same size engine 3.0 300 bhp? How can one compare the two as competitors when the power difference is so great, and the market that it is accommodating may not be the same. The answer is, in my opinion, for the most part, no – I do not see the two as competitors, but rather, in a way, complementors.
I was talking to my wife about this car last night (after reading that it would finally be ending up in the USA).
She was going to get a 3 series for her next car. But the timing and the pricing may be right for her to get the 1 series. I can totally see buying this for her to replace her current car.
The bmw 1 series is very bad news for the Cooper S.
VERY BAD. Not so bad for the lesser priced cooper.
How many people above stated they’d like the 1?
Heck, even I think I’d prefer the 135i over a JCW anyday.
The price difference is much too small and with the S model easily reaching 30k that is much too close to the 1.
The one is rwd and more powerful, better finish inside – it’ll probably handle every bit as well if not better than the MINI. It’ll probably have a go-cart feel too with it’s short wheelbase.
<a href="http://www.mwerks.com/gallery/gallery2.php?mode=album&album=/BMW/1-Series/2007%20Facelift/3%20Door" rel="nofollow">mwerks</a> has a gallery with some interior shots and more exterior photos.
This will lead to discounts on new MINIs, I’d guess, and the up-market creep will happen, which is the intended result anyway. I’ve run across a couple of 1-series that have come up from Mexico which seem like nice cars, and they could put a kink in MINI sales if the buyer is at all concerned about lack of space in the rear – not all MINI buyers are handling enthusiasts, and a wagon may not be a solution for them. Add in a diesel variant and things could get dicey.
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
I’d take a Cooper S over a 1-series, although, I would not take a Clubman over a 1-series.
This is great news! Just think of how often we’ll get to hear ’50-50 weight distribution’ on WRR.
give me the 1 with a solid BMW inline 6, RWD – or AWD – and around the size of the MINI, and i am 100% in.
throw in the 300 HP TT, and I bet i’ll wet myself….
Sorry . . . but as a dedicated MINI owner and enthusiast, I’ve absolutely no interest in becoming one of “THOSE” people. 🙂
For those who complain about the rear seats in the MINI, be wary of the 1 series. The leg room aint much better in the BMW. Of course yo get a bigger boot for luggage. The access through the rear doors of the 4 door version will be difficult for those people who are not Olympic gymnasts.
I own a MINI — BMW just happens to produce it. I didn’t buy it because it is a baby BMW at an entry price, I bought it because it is a MINI. It could have been an Austin, a British Leyland, a Rover, whatever, as long as it is a MINI. But since it IS a BMW, I don’t expect it to leak oil on the garage floor like my Austin Mini 🙂 Cheers Blokes!
The Series-1 will be a formidable competitor to the hum-drum and overpriced Audi A3. For this reason alone they should bring it, to force Audi to either improve the A3 dynamics and lower the entry price.
I would say that there is always some risk associated with bringing the series-1 in direct relationship to MINI sales. But then again it has been proven that “entry” level 2 door hatches wearing BMW or Mercedes badges have never been strong sellers. but then again the cars have been crappy to beging with. The late 1990’s BMW 318Ti is a prime example of an entry level BMW hatchback that completely and miserably failed in the sales arena. If that car had been offered with an in line 6 probably the outcome would have been different. MB’s C230 “Kompressor” Coupe was another monumental sales flop.
Having said this, I think the current management at BMWUSA are brutally understimating themselves in thinking that the Series-1 will not be well received. I think they should bring it because it may also force MINi to further reduce prices and more product + better prices = everyone wins.
I don’t see the 1 series as much competition for the MINI. BMW, despite the awesome engineering is a “snob” brand and what it attracts are social consumers whereas MINI tends to community among its buyers. That’s not something that BMW can hope replicate. Never mind the customizability and whee-zoom-fun factor.
Even the mini colors will be appreciated if this comes out.
Lets see would you like grey, silver, platinum, pewter, white, or black? Ugh.
As far as performance, those numbers will give you a chub in a hurry, I’d hope that maybe there could be some shared drivetrain components, especially with a future r58.
I don’t expect this to hurt the sales of either the MC or the MCS. Where BMW/MINI has a problem is with the 1-Series vs. the MINI Clubman. Essentially they fill about the same niche, so people looking for such a vehicle will have to choose between them.
If the price differential is enough, then they should both be fairly safe from competing against one another, but if you think ahead to the possible match-up of a 1-series vs. a 2009 Clubman JCW? Then all bets are off!
It then comes down to simply this: Are you a “BMW” person, or a “MINI” person? Ask yourself: Would you rather be seen driving a “top-of-the-line” JCW Clubman? or an “entry level” 1-series? Or does that matter?
Rich.
Has the 1-Series taken MINI sales where it is sold?
Does nothing for me. Even the 265hp version might be fast but a JCW MCS will give it a run for the money. More importantly the cooper has it all over the BMW in charm and asthetics(especially inside). I had a Z-4 that was not as fun as my JCW.
It’s not for everyone. Reminds me of the Z3 coupe from a few years ago.
I’m already looking at the Volvo C30. BMW would rather keep MINI owners in the fold, so they need to offer something more upscale that would appeal to us. Or something MINI-like (if I dare use that term) that would appeal to those buyers who don’t want the “cute” label that the MINI often gets slapped with.
Believe it or not – some people did not buy a MINI – or a BMW – for performance reasons.
…rode in a 1-series in june while staying in Bad Tolz…
…great car, solid, clean, balanced, powerful…
…the driver was ever so serious while shifting, intense even…
…on the Autobahn it was all business, crisp, decisive…
…we were passed by a MCS outside of Munchen, then he smiled and said,’I love those cars’…
…moral of story…
…two different customers entirely…
After going to Detroit and seeing the new MINI in person, and getting inside, it sure better be one hell of a better drive over my current 2004 MC. It’s a little too over the top and actually feels smaller- higher beltline, thicker backrests…
If BMW brings the 1 series here, I’ll buy one. Almost immediately. It looks great in person (saw it in France last summer), is RWD, and a tad larger than the new MINI.
I’ll keep my 2004 MC forever. I love him more than most things in life. But the next gen better blow me away behind the wheel. Otherwise my next car is a 1 series (5-door or sedan, whatever they bring over, preferably the 120i, but a 128i would be fine too) or a used 3 series.
In Italy and Europe Mini and BMW 1 are very different market, I’m one of the administrator of Italian unofficial BMW 1 series forum <a href="http://bmws1vc.altervista.org/forum/index.php" rel="nofollow ugc">http://bmws1vc.altervista.org/forum/index.php</a> and I never heard of anyone in dubt choosing between the Mini and the BMW.
Hover USA is a completly different market: I read many people here think of the switching, kinda strange for me… If real, the 135i could easily destroy the old (and maybe the new V8) M3, as well as the Z4M…
I have driven the current 1 series in the UK and I was kind of disappointed. The looks are good on the outside but things go bit cheap inside (Considering it’s a BMW). I drove the 1.6 petrol and it was kind of slow, the materials on the dash didn’t hold up to BMW standards. The plastics were kind of cheap. We had 4 adults in the car and the seats in the back felt bit cramped and my cousin paid 19 K pounds and that’s lot of money for a car that is slow. For the money why not go for the Mini(my cousin is regretting it now) I think this car will appeal to people who want to get a BMW badge at an entry level price point.
<blockquote>130i: World’s lightest six-cylinder production engine with VALVETRONIC and Bi-VANOS technology achieves zero to 62mph in 6.0 seconds (five-door is 6.1 seconds) and an electronically limited top speed of 155mph.</blockquote>
That’s interesting. If the engine in the 130i is similar, if not the same, as the engine in the new 335 coupe and sedan, they (335’s) are said to perform 0-60 near or at 5.0 seconds. How differently are they tuning the 1-Series to get that result? I would assume the 130 is likely to be substantially lighter than the 3-Series??
I spent a bit of time on the Autobahn during the Holidays and it was the first time I saw the 1 Series in the flesh – the 5 door version. The outside looks akward and the 3 door version appears to look only slightly better. Things just don’t look right in the partial front/side shot, similar to the 5 door version. The rear looks much better though, like the car was meant to be a 3 door. I like the idea of a car below the 3 Series but it looks like an odd mixture of different styles to me. Not seen the latest MINI yet but I would probably prefer if based on looks… not the engines and rear wheel drive is another story…
>That’s interesting. If the engine in the 130i is similar, if not the same, as the engine in the new 335 coupe and sedan, they (335’s) are said to perform 0-60 near or at 5.0 seconds. How differently are they tuning the 1-Series to get that result? I would assume the 130 is likely to be substantially lighter than the 3-Series??
Yes – the 3.0L is in the 130i. The 3.0L Turbo will be in the 135i.
The 1 Series has been sold in Australia pretty much from the word go. Interestingly, the 1 Series sells almost 1:1 with the Mini here. In 2006, there were 2,093 1 Series sold v’s 2,038 Minis.
While I’ve not had a chance to drive the 1 Series, I’ve had a good look at them at the BMW dealer and all I can say is that they have absolutely no character/presence at all. If it weren’t for the great chassis and the top end engines, the 1 Series would be a completely forgettable car. Thank goodness that the Brits had some involvement in the Mini’s development. The Germans might do technical and efficient but the Brits do character and at the end of the day, that’s what puts a smile on my face.
Interesting article. I can’t wait to see if the Z2 becomes a reality and look forward to reading about it here if it does.
The only thing I will be replacing my Mini with is a Mini not a glorified station wagon uhhh I mean BMW 1 series.
The NYT has a new piece on this now – the paper of record has deigned to enlighten the masses….a day late, but earnestly, I’ll give ’em that. Somebody Bavarian’s testing the water, one little piggy at a time – closer they came, step by step.
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
I’m sorry but wherever the 1 Series starts won’t cause it to compete with the Cooper S. Think for one second. To get the raw performance quotient that you can get (using the R53 as an example) in a JCW Tuned S would still be less than if you attempted to do the same thing in a One Series. Also think about the potential aggressiveness of the R56 Cooper S JCW (possibly 220 to 250 H.P. rumored) that will still cost less than a one series as aggressively as you could equip it. You most likely could take the extra dollars spent to equip that 135i and buy more JCW accessories. Sorry but the One will not affect MINI but it may certainly complement it. We may not even see the hatch in the states as I’ve read interviews with various BMW higher ups saying that the U.S. would favor a sedan and Convertible version of this model like the three series. Remeber how popular the 318ti was back in the 90’s? Nuff said!
…lucky,for me,I don’t fall in the slot of,”A MINI person”;or,”A BMW person”,for that matter.
…however,I do fall under the slot of,”I just want a damn’ good,quality car,that sips fuel;and doesn’t send me to the poor house,person”.
…with this in mind,my MC is paid off;and more than likely,I will trick out,”Sade”,to my taste(using MINI products,of course),then garage it somewhere. Therefore,I will be getting another car sometime around late 2007/2008.
…since I have a MINI…that 1-Series coupe/hatchback,would be a nice,”Sister”,for,”Sade”. Thank you,as usual,Gabe,for the great story.
The 1er and the MINI, IMHO, are technically in separate markets. People who are interested in the 1er would be more traditionalist-performance oriented — meaning they want silky smooth engines with inexhaustable power (magic of inline 6 and VANOS), performance-tuned suspension and balanced weight distribution (with which BMW is legend).
I hate to use generalizations, but my impression of it is, that MINI’s more for those who are more rebellious-underdog types — meaning engines with more-than-adequate power that may be a little rough at the edges with enthusiastic handling and great looks.
In terms of price, right now, there is nothing in the BMW line up that’s priced in between the 3er and the MINI. For traditionalist-performance oriented people, you’d either have to pony up some serious doe for the 3er or save some by getting the MINI. So for MCS, it seems, for the moment, a good compromise — for relatively low price, you get good (more-than-adequate) power and excellent but not awesome handling.
Now, if you are not willing to compromise, then you’d be looking else where other than BMW. BMW is simply trying to capture those who are not willing to compromise.
For the MINI, this will definitely canibalize some of MINI’s market share — since BMW would have finally given them what they wanted — traditionalist-performance oriented car with great engine and awesome handling at a price they can afford. The question then becomes how much will MINI lose? Well, that’s the hard part. Personally, I think most people who bought MINIs falls into the latter category, meaning that given the choice, they still would have bought MINIs.
I’ve seen the 1er first hand while on vacation in Asia. IMHO, its looks are o.k. — takes some getting use to, though. Yes the 1er has a lot more power and probably handles fabulously around those sharp twisties, but it just doesn’t communicate that certain “the little car that can” type of personality to me.
So you can guess which category I fall into…. 🙂
Another factor is (probably not important in terms of MINI), that how much the 1er would cannibalize the 3er market? I think this is what BMW is more worried about — they probably make a lot more money from the 3er than they do from the MINI — which may be why they are coming out with the 3-door version first.
<blockquote>Gabe said:
Just to clear something up… BMW chooses the dealers who sell the MINI. If dealers could choose…</blockquote>
I wonder how they choose the dealers… in California there are absolutely NO MINI dealers between the greater Los Angeles and San Francisco areas. So if you live in the central valley (e.g. Bakersfield, Fresno, etc.), you’d have to drive 130+ miles to the nearest dealer. in the mean time, around where I live (Irvine), there are 2 dealers within a 5 mile radius.
As far as hatch backs are concerned — I really don’t know why it’s got such a bad stigma in the U.S. I love hatch backs (but not so much the station wagons, though) — in fact the first thing I look for in a car is the hatch back. If the car doesn’t have a hatch back it would have to have something seriously great for me to even give it a second look.
I recently ordered a 2007 Mini. Hopefully, it’ll arrive in March, as promised. But my immediate feelings upon seeing this BMW 1 (a vehicle I’d forgotten about), were a pang of regret at having placed my order, followed by a thought of selling my Mini in about a year when this comes out. It looks hot, is bigger, and I’m sure power won’t be a problem.
That said, I haven’t experienced daily ownership of a Mini, so all this could change.
I forgot to mention that when i ordered my Mini GP the salesman at the BMW garage tried to convince me that the 1 series would be a better car for me! However in the UK the salesman can only sell either Mini or BMW and not both. I politely declined and was passed over to his Mini colleague.
There’s no mistake that it’s a Mini when it passes you. The rest are just a guess as to their make and model. That’s why I bought a Mini.
I’m excited that the 1 series is finally coming over- and I’m super excited that BMW has the guts to put the I6 biturbo in it!! Somewhere back there blalor said the MINI had made him more of a driving enthusiast and thus more appreciative of BMWs as well- the very same is true for me.
I actually have an 07 335ci in production right now with the same I6 biturbo, but if the 1 series was available now I might have gotten it instead of the 3. Doesn’t really impact my MINI- I’m keeping that too.
I was just looking at the specs of the current 130i which is a tick slower 0-62 (6.1 vs. 6.0) than this new one. What caught my eye was the 80-120 in 4th and 5th at 5.8s and 7.3s seconds. Take a look at the R56 spec sheet… 5.5s and 7.0s . I’m sure the 130i is geared for more speed and off it’s torque a bit for these tests but other than off the line (where FWD kills the MINI) the R56 MCS is likely very close to the 130i in accelleration. You will need the 135i and that’s another 5k. Interesting…
!!!ARE WE FORGETTING!!!
* NEW Audi A1 …. 2008 Audi A1 ….**
Don’t get me wrong. I love MINIs. LOVE UM!!!
The BMW one series… “Not so much” – Borat
Audi A 1 – …Prehaps,
… Quattro… Bi-turbo… and hopefully MINI-ish.
Just my “2 cents,”… “anyone have change?”
I’ve forgotten the little Audi b/c, as with the A3, if I want to buy a Golf, I’d buy a Golf. Especially now that the GTI is actually more of a driver’s car for a lot less.
I like cars with bespoke platforms. The MINI is only MINI’s. And BMW doesn’t share any platforms with anyone but itself.
We’ll see if the new MINI can keep its charm. And if BMW actually brings the 1 series here.
I love my MINI’s size and style, but hate FWD.
So MINI size with RWD and 300hp is reason for me to upgrade, or maybe this is what the MINI should have been all along–a 1 series! Given I track my MINI often, RWD is reason for me to change.
<blockquote>My MINI gives me so much more than a “driving experience†– there’s the smiles every time I look at it or get in it, there’s the camaraderie with so many great MINI friends (for example).
I don’t see that happening for a “BMW pug†– which is the attitude the little guy is likely to get from the “grown up BMW†owners.</blockquote>
I totally agree with this. The 1 series looks like a BMW from the front (which is intended) and will appeal to those looking for performance and the BMW styling. Personally, my mum was telling me to get a 328 instead of my MINI but you just can’t compare. The look is entirely different. Even if it handles amazing and has all this super power with 300 hp it will still be a BMW.
Those looking for a car with culture and style not to mention a really unique group of owners, you will get a MINI and that’s how it always will be.
I just asked a coworker (I work at a MINI dealership) and he said that he’d take the 1 series over the MINI EXCEPT if MINI came out with an AWD. Whatever, I love my MINI, AWD or not :).
when i tried the mini (jcw 2004) i had real adrenaline sensations . and ..i bought it !!! until then , cars where just transportortation metal cans . I was riding motorcycles instead . Mini is kind of a “mautorbike” .
BMW 1 will never be as enthusiasmatic . I tried the 130i ; Good car real huge motor but not the same driving experience . We almost bought one ( 120d ) for my wife , and finally got her a Freelander …
So how can you replace all that ? That’s why i bougnt 2006jcw and build it as “my gp” .. aftermaket turbo will be next step ! Any good infos about Gabe ?
Anyway two very different cars two markets no worry for mcs or one series . Just replace my jcw by a … “getrag” 350hp beast ….or DIMyself !
For those that haven’t read the about page on MF or haven’t heard me wax poetically on WRR, I have a long history with BMWs. I’ve grown up with them since the late 70’s. Some of my first memories as a child are sitting in the back seat of my dad’s ’72 2002 zipping around corners on Saturday mornings. I also have plenty fond memories of helping my dad under the hood of the old ’02 as well.
So as you can imagine I’ve never thought of a BMW as some vain status symbol. Since I was a kid I looked at them as well engineered machines that focused on performance and driving pleasure first and foremost. So when I hear that people won’t even think about buying a BMW it saddens me knowing that (for a few folks) the brand has been hijacked by a part of the population that simply looks at it a a status symbol.
I’ve personally owned five BMWs over the years and currently own a fantastic 3 Series wagon (sport package w/manual!). However, while I’m a big fan of the current crop of BMWs, I’ve long held out for a return to the formula of the BMW 2002. Small, high performance, efficient, and aimed squarely at true driving enthusiasts. Because of this, idea of a 130i or 135i is incredibly interesting to me. In fact my first thought when I saw this car and heard it was coming to the US was – how could I not get it. This is everything I’ve pined for since I was a teenager. Perfect balance, high output inline 6, RWD – all the ingredients are there.
But I live in an urban area with only a two car garage. A garage I’m incredibly lucky to have considering the local space constraints. This means owning three cars is really out of the question (especially considering we only really need one). So would I really consider selling my MINI for a 135i coupe or hatchback?
At this point the answer is a resounding no. For one, our 3 Series wagon will need replacing well before the MINI (one has 77k the other 15k). And it’s through that replacement that I’ll likely get my fixed for the BMW 3.0L 300hp turbo inline six. Secondly my MINI is a very personal expression at this point. Selling it would be an incredibly hard thing to do without replacing it with another. And as much as a 300hp 1 Series interests me, the MINI fits my lifestyle like a glove.
Gabe – only a two car garage – poor you!
I sleep with one eye open as my car sleeps out on the streets of Paris where people really use there bumpers and my poor baby is under threat of theft!
Would seriously love a garage!
The 1-series is definatly one of those cars that you love the look of or hate the look of. Personally i’m a lover. As for comparing to the mini, it’s a close call if you like the looks of both. However I urge you all to just sit in the drivers seat of a 130i M-Sport if you can. If you don’t fall in love with the car straight away then you never will. But the way the seat holds you in place, the way your key slots into the dashboard before you push the start button… But press the start button and the car takes you to a whole new level as the straight six engine starts to purr.
Try it. You’ll love it. It’s a whole new level to owning a mini!
More on the 1 series coming to America on Car and Driver.com, including pics of the coupe:
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/12445/spied-2009-bmw-1-series-coupe.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/12445/spied-2009-bmw-1-series-coupe.html</a>