MINI’s Future JCW Vehicle(s)
MF Exclusive Yesterday we introduced the idea that MINI could releasing two JCW vehicles rather than the one we had expected to see late this year or early next. We now have some limited details on the first product, a “Stage One” type of kit similar to the JCW Sound Kit originally released for the R50. Only this time with a real power increase.
Before we get ahead of ourselves, first let’s recap the various rumors we’ve heard about this car over the past year.
In mid-2006 we heard from several people that the power figures that BMW were shoot for were around 210 – 220bhp. This would make the JCW MINI the fastest production MINI ever and go a long way in developing the JCW brand as the ultimate MINI performance marque – aftermarket or otherwise.
We last heard about the 2008 JCW MINI in late 2006. At that time, rumors suggested that BMW was having a harder-than-expected time in getting the necessary power out of the new 1.6L Turbo. One potential solution under discussion was the boring out of the 1.6L to create a 1.8L Turbo easily capable of the proposed power. We’ve now confirmed that – at least initially – MINI won’t be going with a larger engine for any JCW products.
Now that it’s 2007 we’ve heard yet another rumor from some of the same sources.
First off current prototypes of the 2008 JCW seem to sit lower and have revised (i.e. more aggressive) suspension as compared to the R56 MCS as we reported. It also (according to our source) “look the business” as we all had hoped.
But here’s the kicker. In it’s current prototype guise, MINI is only getting around 200bhp out of the car. Surely MINI wouldn’t release the one and only JCW MINI with less power than before? Well they might if there’s more than one JCW MINI. Several sources have independantly mentioned that MINI will have “several” JCW products available over the next couple of years.
We believe the first product will be a “stage 1” type of vehicle near the old 200bhp figure of the first R53/R52 JCW MINI with the other JCW offering having around to 210-220bhp. That stage 1 product would be closer to the spirit of the original JCW MCS with no suspension work and little visual difference from the stock MCS. Based on our sources, we believe the “Stage 2” (or whatever it’s eventually named) will much more thorough engine revisions as well as a host of other improvements.
Update: We will have an update on the JCW Stage 1 upgrade very shortly.
Well, they could just put the blown Tritec into the engine bay and give that the Works treatment. 🙂
Given the articles I’ve seen on this site, this doesn’t come as a surprise at all. Just a couple of weeks ago you ran snippets of a discussion with a MINI rep who said there wasn’t going to be much room for improvement in the aftermarket world.
Pray, just pray that something killer comes out… not 200bhp… 230 would be nice.
I too would hope that there’s a “Stage 2” with 220+, but the fact that their scratching their heads at this point and considering putting out a 200bhp JCW worries me.
You can re-brand all you want, and make a car look the business (there’s plenty of Civics around which try to do just that), but if the numbers at the end of the day are 200bhp, I don’t think this will be the M-car of MINIs.
Interesting concept, if the new rumors are correct and Mini is considering various stages of JCW I think they have totally missed the concept.
If all they do is a rather pathetic enigne HP and torque gain, with some lowering and suspension work tossed in I believe that not a great number of these would be bought. Afterall if they tell me wait another year for a stage 2 or 3 I will wait for the true performace version of the car to hit the streets.
My question to any other prospective JCW buyers is would you buy a stage one car today if you knew the following.
1. Less powerfull than the R53 JCW
2. Lowering
3. Suspension work
and that the stage 2 or stage 3 car was slated to come out later? I for one will not spend a single penny on something that is not as good as my current JCW.
The thing that matters is that these upgrades will be available to add to the current R56. If they aren’t I will have a few dissappointed customers who are buying this new model expecting to add some more in house tuned power to their cars.
I would definitely not buy that version. I was waiting to hope they did somethign truly good with it. Also, somethign that held its value a little better than before. I doubt having 2 stages of JCW will help that at all, in fact, it will probably make it worse.
But won’t the new one have way more torque also!?
I’d consider this stage 1 JCW kit if it was half the price of the previous kit and didn’t require the sport package.
I hope this is not the case. I think a staging system would be a mess. If MINI want to build JCW into an M-like phenomena MINI should just release one well-done, powerful product.
>I’d consider this stage 1 JCW kit if it was half the price of the previous kit and didn’t require the sport package.
You may get your wish.
“‘I’d consider this stage 1 JCW kit if it was half the price of the previous kit and didn’t require the sport package.’
You may get your wish.”
Well I had to wait until the final comment I read to hear something good out of this article. “Staging” the JCW cars could work, but may prove to be too complicated. If the JCW Stage 1 is only $2-3k more than a MCS that would be ok… but only if the Stage 2 JCW is around 250hp, AWD, and around a $32k beast.
At that point MINI would have a large brand spread, from the MINI Cooper with 120hp to a MINI JCW2 with 250hp and AWD. That also puts it up against the VW line with the Rabbit/GTI/R32.
Drew
My question to any other prospective JCW buyers is would you buy a stage one car today if you knew the following:
1. Less HP than the R53 JCW but 1/2 second faster to 60
2. Some suspension that makes it 10+ seconds faster at the Ring.
3. Cheaper than R53 JCW
Horsepower is only one number… I’m waiting for them all.
I echo Jon’s sentiments. I never envisioned that when I passed up the R53 JCW in anticipation of the newer technology R56 version that I would be subjected to such a lengthy wait by Mini with no clear vision for the car and schedule for its production. Regrettably, because of this, I fear there will be no Mini parked in my garage. But if I buy a 335i, does BMW really care? I think not.
Has MINI been able to address the rumored engine overheating problems with the R56 JCW package?
When they say they can’t get a lot of power, they probably mean without sacrificing ‘driveability’ – meaning they get turbo lag, rough idle, or something acceptable to the aftermarket, but not on a factory car.
I personally would buy a 200 hp JCW if it is a great overall package – suspension, brakes, body kit, and some power.
A cheaper less capable JCW stage 1. Wonder if thsi is what they met my rebranding. Great, guess this means if BMW/Mini is considering this I can go down to my local BMW dealership and pick up a cheaper and less capable version of the M cars. Maybe I need to look at getting a stage 1 M5 now LOL.
All I can say is I can’t wait to blast past new stage 1 JCW’s on the track with my current R53 JCW.
It goes to show you that the “low-tech” TRITEC engine is a pretty capable little beast. Long live the TRITEC!
The problem is reliable waranteed horsepower…I mean the aftermarket will have no problem making lots more power but those cars will never see 100k miles without major mechanical repairs…Factory vehicles are held to a higher standard and they will not put out crap like that, which hurts the brand image of reliability. It does not suprise me that they are having a hard time making more hp from these engines that is professionally engineered and reliable.
After I read in NAM that people are trading in their JCW R53’s and getting only 13k as a starting point regardless it is a JCW or not, it makes me wonder if the extra cash is worth it. I am very happy with my setup on my R53 and I didn’t pay anything close to a JCW setup. Plus I service my car at Morristown Mini and they are performance enthusiasts which have led to no problems as far as warranties and service is concerned, so the whole piece of mind of a MINI brand upgrade does not stand as an excuse to get quality products other that JCW.
SO. My source was correct when I posted the “stages” JCW a couple weeks ago. I finally drove an MCS this weekend and was impressed by how fast it was. An extra 25HP will be fun but of course we want MORE.
This is all quite ambiguous. Can the “stage one” be added at the dealership (if so I’ll order an MCS now)or just a factory model? Will “stage two” be an upgrade to “one” or are you stuck with “one” when “two” comes out?
>SO. My source was correct when I posted the “stages†JCW a couple weeks ago. I finally drove an MCS this weekend and was impressed by how fast it was. An extra 25HP will be fun but of course we want MORE.
We’ve been sitting on some of this info for awhile while we tried to verify it with a couple other sources.
>This is all quite ambiguous. Can the “stage one†be added at the dealership (if so I’ll order an MCS now)or just a factory model? Will “stage two†be an upgrade to “one†or are you stuck with “one†when “two†comes out?
Your state one question will be answered tomorrow 🙂
uk magazine autocar are speculating that Peugeot will show 210BHP 207 at Geneva show having already launched 150BHP and 175BHP versions of this car whi8ch share the turbocharged mini engine
It seems to me that the branding solution here is to hold the actual MCS JCW until the big power version comes along. Sell the “stage 1” as a kit or option for the regular car, not as a seperate model. Like the way BMW sells both M cars and M packages for lesser Bimmers, but with the added bonus of more power. 200hp plus uprated suspension in a regular MCS would be quite nice, I’m sure.
What I’d really like these JCW cars/packages to do is make the Sport Button’s “on” setting as the default.
How much power does one need? How much is too much? In 2010, don’t you think global warming and fuel economy will mean more than they do even today. I hope MINI takes a step off the bandwagon of insatiable levels of horsepower.
boy you can tell the people who buy the cute cars because of marketing from those who buy cars because they are fun
No thanks Glen, I dont like tofu, go ahead and finish it off yourself
Glen. I recommend keeping a lid on the global warming(BS)rap. That’s a can of worms I’m sure Gabe doesn’t feel is appropriate for MF. Go watch some reruns of the Oscars for your left wing fix but don’t bring it here.
Hey dr. I’m going out for a steak, wanna come? Let’s take my Hummer.
<blockquote>How much power does one need? How much is too much? In 2010, don’t you think global warming and fuel economy will mean more than they do even today. I hope MINI takes a step off the bandwagon of insatiable levels of horsepower.</blockquote>
More power does not necessarily equal decreased fuel economy or higher emissions…the current-gen Altima and Camry hybrids are plenty quick, and even non-hybrid technology (like VW’s Twincharger) promises a future of quicker (but still less-environmentally intrusive) cars.
You know, of course, that the R56 is faster AND more fuel-efficient than the car it replaces, right? And besides, why bring these comments here in the first place…this is probably the only car site on the web where 230hp = “insatiable” 🙂
I feel better about my R53 JCW with each passing article on the R56. And knowing that I will not be buying a new car in the next couple of years makes it some much easier to justify the head and cam that I’ve been comtemplating…
I am with Glen on this one actually. It would be nice to revisit this thread in 5 years and see if there are any changes in consumer perspectives about energy consumption. It would be amazing to see a 220 plus HP Mini that runs in anything other than gasoline.
BTW: to care about the environment you don’t need to be a patchouli tofu eater but rather an individual with some common sense. The truth is that I bet right now that a company such as Honda will be the first one to offer a ride like this and then the rest will follow. 1972 Honda civic comes to mind.
Yeah and the truth is that COWs do more to the enviroment than modern cars….The truth is that one volcano eruption spews more crap in the air than if everyone drove Hummers….the truth is that we only have at best 200 years of climate data and from that tiny TINY amount of data scientists have extrapolated hysteria to keep their endowments and government funding rolling in to keep thier pointless jobs…
I’m casting my vote for dr as MF participant of the day. The Earth’s temperature fluctuates on it’s own regardless of what we do. Puny mankind CANNOT affect this! This crap is all about political agendas and the rest of the world which pollutes far more than the US being jealous of our standard of life.
In the 70’s the envirocommunists were whinning about global COOLING! Where are those guys now? Furthermore, there is less pollution and more trees now than 30 years ago! DO NOT BUY THIS GARBAGE! AND KEEP IT OUT OF MF! And give me 250 HP on JCW3!
Ok. It seems this is not the right demographic/forum for such a topic, rather than intelligent discussion its becoming quite pathetic and depressing; so let’s go back to the topic at hand Minis FUTURE VEHICLES!
The realities of the environmental problems we face daily are pretty obvious to most. And I for one am very interested in limiting the damage we do to the earth every day. However I’d prefer if this debate raged on elsewhere in more appropriate places of the web.
I agree. However, it’s amusing how opinions are still squeezed in huh?
Quite funny and ironic how the guys with the uninformed, nonscientific, right-leaning opinions are ranting the loudest…
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As a long time BMW owner (’77 2002, ’94 325i), I have always been a fan of the M series cars, but they have been out of reach financially. I have a 2005 MCS and love it, but when you start looking at a $35000 Mini / JCW, a used BMW M3 becomes a serious alternative for me. I think that Mini needs to make a 230+ BHP version, with the suspension, brakes, and looks to match, at a decent price, or driving enthusiasts will start to look elsewhere. The new and used market has a lot of vehicles that can run with the current R53 MCS JCW if a buyer is strictly seeking performance. Going fast with a 1.6 liter engine that is economical and reliable is quite a feat, so this gets kudos above and beyond performance alone. There is however a price ceiling, and Mini needs to recognise this. I think that by offering the “stage one” kit they are making an attempt to keep impatient hot shoes interested, however it may also be a sign that they are having trouble meeting reliability goals with the new “trick” engine. I hope I’m wrong, because I have left a deposit with my dealer on a M56 JCW… whenever they actually come out…2008? I’m cautiously optimistic.
Oops. I know some car aficianado is going to call me on it, so the 1977 BMW 2002 was indeed a typo. I don’t think they made a 1977. It was a 1976. Fjord blue and very fun, although it leaned WAY over on the corners. I had to put sway bars and decamber plates on it to keep the chrome on the door handles. The color was almost the same as my Mini.
Oh my…. I think i’ll stick with my old cooper S got 210 hp and i am happy..