For the better part of a year we here at MotoringFile have been saying (and confirming) that the MINI Clubman would only have one rear coach door and it would be on the right-side of the car in all world market. However many automotive publications firmly believed (no matter how naive) that BMW would be swapping locations of the door for right-hand drive markets.
Recently BMW spoke with Auto Express (one such publication) about the decision to only place the rear coach door on the right-side of the car:
>There are valid arguments for not having the doors on either side of the car, of which cost is one, explained a spokeswoman for MINI. But whatever the layout, the single door on the left will still be long enough to give excellent access to the rear seats as it is on the three-door MINI.
So this should finally (as if it wasn’t many months ago) put to rest the debate on the location of the rear coach door.
Personally, I think it is a pretty bad business decision to put money savings ahead of the needs and wants of your customers. There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors. This decision is going to bite them back pretty hard (The bottom line), specially in RHD countries where the existing suicide door will be facing the side of traffic.
There are similar failed attempts here in the US where this approach has failed: The Saturn Coupe and the AMC pacer with the “Longer” side door. These were viewed as gimmicks rather than really useful solutions to access the rear seat.
MINI should take lessons from the Mazda RX8 where both rear doors have been well received in the market.
I think MINI needs to reconsider this approach. I think they are taking the “Cost savings” mantra a little too far in the second generation MINI.
I wonder if the bean counters are the ones running BMW and not the engineers and the common sense?
I wouldn’t think it so odd except that the brand markets national heritage when this model is clearly designed counter to what a British engineer would make. If this were marketed as American or German, it would seem logical to me.
“There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors.”
How about structural rigidity, and weight?
As for cost, perhaps they would have been better off avoiding the gimmickry of the twin boot doors, sticking with a simple hatch, and using that money toward a second rear door.
>Personally, I think it is a pretty bad business decision to put money savings ahead of the needs and wants of your customers. There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors. This decision is going to bite them back pretty hard (The bottom line), specially in RHD countries where the existing suicide door will be facing the side of traffic.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’d MUCH rather save weight, cost, and manufacturing complexity and have one coach door rather than two. Two small coach doors would be complete overkill for the size of this car. Especially with what MINI has coming down the pipe-line in the next few years.
>There are similar failed attempts here in the US where this approach has failed: The Saturn Coupe and the AMC pacer with the “Longer†side door. These were viewed as gimmicks rather than really useful solutions to access the rear seat.
Those vehicles failed because they were terrible products that few people wanted to buy or be seen in. Comparing them with the Clubman is a simplistic argument at best.
MultiplePersonalities, FrankinMiami, or whatever you want to call yourself this week. I think the whole notion that bean counters are driving the process is your own personal delusion.
I like two doors at the back, but prefer the glass-up, metal-down approach used by station wagons. The glass opens pneumatically when you have hands full of groceries, and the door drops down to give you a longer loading bed when you have to carry something large. I’d not feel comfortable driving with barn doors open. Gravity won’t keep them from swinging when I make a corner.
…personally, one of the reasons i want a Clubman (diesel, if possible) is BECAUSE of the single coach door…
…my friend drives an Element and he and i were just talking about how he NEVER uses the driver’s side suicide door unless he’s cleaning it out…
…i can see people in the U.K. being miffed out of spite for convenience sake, but c’mon it’s not more inconvenient then trying to get in the back of a Tahoe…
It is lovely how my posts are duly scrutinized and disected by the usual suspects (Not you Gabe, you don’t resort to personal attacks, unlike some other individual that shall remain nameless).
I don’t care what the Lavarderas of the world think or don’t think. I stand by my comments and think that the one rear door approach is not the best strategy for the long term success of the Clubman. Mark my words.
But worse than that, having a single rear access door on the right side of the vehicle on RHD is simply assinine.
My R55 Clubman S order still stands. We are looking forward to the car and all it has to offer.
Gabe I don’t know if you have or don’t have children of your own, but when you have an additional pair of doors out in the back, it is a God send. If you don’t have kids at this point in time, may be this notion is a little hard to fully understand.
But all things considered, having a single rear door is better than none.
Listen – this is just a car. We are people. There is no point in making anything here personal.
Frank – I think many readers are more than a little annoyed at your constant badgering of posters who don’t agree with you and your almost spam like comments that reiterate the same points over and over again. Yet this site has made the conscious decision to look the other way (despite many reader complaints) and let you comment at will – assuming you’d get the subtle hints. The least you can do in return is come down off your soap-box a little when you comment.
Gabe has known me for the past 4-5 years. How sad is to end my participation in this site this way. I am accused and attacked and yet I am identified as the attacker. I am deeply dissapointed in Gabe. Thanks dude, really nice.
Don’t worry, I’ll dissapear in the shadows of time and more than likely you’ll never have the displeasure to ever hear from me or much less meet me. Too bad the internet effectively shuts down and dilutes the little humanity we have left on each of us.
This is your site and your little kingdom of glory and fame. I have more important and better things to do with my life than to engage in conversations with people that I will never see in my life. I’ll continue to love and enjoy my MINIs, my wonderful wife and my 5 month old baby boy, which are the greatest blessings in my life.
Why take away precious minutes of my life from them, by posting in internet message boards?
Rejoice detractors, rejoice!!!! Your nemesis is leaving and getting lost for eternity!
I think we can all agree that Clubman would be a “better” car if it either had two rear doors or at least a left door for RHD markets. Unfortunately the truth hurts and the automotive industry is not all about building better cars.
There are people who will buy other cars rather than accept a single rear door on the right. No doubt a committee at BMW estimated the amount of lost sales, and compared it with the cost of manufacturing other configurations. Nothing is set in stone. Their decision tilted one way for now, but trust me they will quickly change the design if they find it necessary for reaching their sales and profitability goals.
Since we’re (were) on the topic of the Clubman’s doors, I’m reminded of my nagging doubts about the practicality of those located to the rear. While I realize the horse is already “out of the barn” 😉 on this, and I concur with the designer’s desire to tip the hat to the Classic Mini’s barn doors, I’m really wondering if, in the final analysis, it might’ve been wiser to stick with the existing hatch. Here’s what I’m thinking. For one, it seems loading and unloading with this design will be a bit trickier. For instance, when unloading, remember that a larger item will not only have to clear the trunk first, but you’ll then have to continue backing up with that object until you clear the doors and can pivot away, being careful not to do so prematurely or you’ll bash the inside of the barn door. Even if the doors swing pretty wide, (you can bet it won’t approach 180 degrees) there’ll be a part of that door, particularly with heavy and bulky items, that you’ll wish wasn’t there. Also, the roof line in the rear seems to curl down slightly above the door which I worry might make this access even more claustrophobic. The beauty of the existing hatch, and I think we owners know from experience, is its simplicity. It moves up and out of the way and reveals the most open access to the rear of the car. In rainy conditions, it provides a useful umbrella effect for the user and his trunk. Likewise, when open in sunny conditions, it can provide a shading effect. Lastly, very often, more doors equal less rigidity and more rattles, and in this case, one extra wiper to go bad. 😉 Anywho, I realize these nifty barn doors are a done deal, and I’ll be the first to agree that they’re a cool throwback feature, but, I’m still kinda wondering . . . .
>Gabe has known me for the past 4-5 years. How sad is to end my participation in this site this way. I am accused and attacked and yet I am identified as the attacker. I am deeply dissapointed in Gabe. Thanks dude, really nice.
As much as I’d love to fill pages and pages of your comments that illustrate the point I made above (with multiple names – at times agreeing with each other) I will let it go. I have many better things to do – as apparently you do.
However, (and I want to make this clear) you’re more than welcome to post comments to any story on MotoringFile in a civil manner in the spirit of the car, the community and the site. No one here is stopping you or telling you not to. That’s the last I intend to say about this – no matter what else you say about me or this site.
I am rather indifferent if the Clubman has one or two doors. I mean come on; I think most of the people who drive a Mini are doing it because it reflects something in their personalities. Any Mini driver makes small sacrifices every now and then because of the size and layout of the car.
The new Clubman will have more room but even with two doors the additional gain will be a tad better for those seeking or needing the room. But, having said that even with a Clubman sacrifices will still be made. The fact this is a small car any way you cut it, 11 inches will not do much rather than make the back seats semi-useable. Trying to remember once in the last five years of the new mini when I though, dang if I just had 11 inches all would cure it all.
My first reaction was to think of the rear barn doors as leaning too much towards retro. But as bits of information have come out – such as the tail lights fitting through a hole in the door, I’m wondering if there is not more going on here that we just don’t know about yet. There may be something unique about the way these doors swing open that make them function better than we would expect. I think back to the way the doors were hinged in the concept car which was unusual and I wonder if any of that may have carried over.
As a user of the original Countryman doors, as well as the barn doors on my recent Suburban, they are infinitely more practical than a hatchback or a tailgate for a wagon. The rigidity of the body is prolly compromised less than with a hatchback, as there is a center support when the doors are closed, rather than one large opening. The smaller any cavity is, the better it is for a monocoque structure. The advantage to the barn doors in unloading is you don’t have to duck under a hatch, and can walk upright all the way to the back of the floor when you’re carrying something heavy; been there, done that, and the two doors are simple enough to close. I look forward to ’em.
“The fact this is a small car any way you cut it, 11 inches will not do much rather than make the back seats semi-useable. Trying to remember once in the last five years of the new mini when I though, dang if I just had 11 inches all would cure it all.”
Jon,
I’m pretty much in agreement. I’ve had many occasions to giggle myself to near blissful death after seeing what I can haul in a MINI.
I recently fit a 40″ TV in the back. 33″ between wheel wells (if you remove the rear plug to the outlet on the left) and the box was 32 7/8″ width and a bit over 42″ long. I had to sit a bit close that visually it seemed more reminiscent of the original with the front of the car feeling a foot closer.
And my MINI seems to love IKEA, as long as I stick to boxes
I an not a big fan of the rear barn doors, rather have a hatch with two coach doors. The Mazda RX8 proves the 2 coach doors can work on a sports car. Put the refinement of the car in passenger access to the rear seats, not a complex and heavy set of rear barn doors, it’s a sports wagon not a minivan.
I am amazed that a little car which comes out of the factory in which I work can cause so many petty arguements BUT ANYWAY – Yes, having only one ‘club’ door as it is now labelled may be something for RHD markets to grumble about, but I do hope people will realise that the door is only on the RH side for one very important reason – the location of the fuel tank and filler pipe. I hated the ’55 when I first saw it rolling down the line, but now, the more of them I see and especially coloured ones (rather than the bland black) I have grown to appreciate and almost like them – Maybe because it’ll keep me in work for the next 5 years and not much else lol.
Keep your eyes peeled and wait for the official launch before making too many judgements – especially if you’re not as ‘updated’ as some people on here, asking questions such as “Will the Cooper have two exhaust pipes?” NO IT BLOODY WONT!
Peace LOL
Well Billy it’s not petty aguements as much as it’s fanatics endlessly disscussing every nuance of these little cars. While it’s very true about the filler pipe being in the way of a second door, I am sure many will ask why they didn’t move it. The fact of the matter is the Clubman will have only one side “club” door and still the car is going to be a hit.
As for all the poeple I know that drive Minis their mini purchase wasn’t about making the practical choice, rather its about driving a very fun and interesting car.
I looked back at the concept photos and the tail lights do poke through holes in the doors as has been mentioned. Their hinging allows them to swing way to the side, and actually overlap with the length of the car for a portion of their width. This means the will not require as much clearance at the rear as a simply hinged barn door.
Also if you look back at the hot weather testing photos that were posted long ago you can see that at least one of those cars had the rear door on the left hand side.
The freak’n barn doors suck, I don’t care if they are like the original! If this is supposed to be a car that is driving inspired why would you want some obstructions like those blocking your view? Someone above suggested barn doors are superior to a hatch???? HUH! IDTS! Maybe on a Monster SUV that might be OK but stupid here.
I agree with Gabe, I presume, that one is more than enough, hell they really didn’t need even that one. I guess mama’s need this for kids seats installation but other than that why bother with it at all?
I am looking forward to seeing the Clubman when it does appear at dealers here. I don’t really care whether it has two side doors on either side — my kids are all grown up and gone, but I can tell you I probably would care if they were here and still young.
About the barn doors — in my classic Woody, what you see in the rear view mirror isn’t much! There’s a huge blind spot from that center pier of the two doors, which necessitates wing mirrors. Of course the inside mirror isn’t all that large either, and when one has it fully loaded, no interior mirror will help.
The classics had no real rear view due to the technology of the time – the windows were small for that reason. Modern methods will help with enlarging that area.
I would venture to guess the weight of two barn doors is possibly less than a hatchback, and there would be less superstructure weight at the top of the roof to handle the hinges there and where the struts are braced. Talk to me when you’ve used barn doors for years, or if one doesn’t decide to try, they have no basis for anyone to recognize their opinion as valid other than as an uninformed guess. I will not resort to name-calling and capital-shouting as some with less ability to express themselves in a civil manner have done here lately, but as someone who drove a classic Mini wagon that had essentially ‘S’ running gear, it was a kick-ass Mini by any measure, and a helluva sporting wagon, so I see no reason for the MINI Clubman driving experience to be degraded.
I think nothing would compromise the basic handling more than another door on the left-hand side, as the rigidity of the monocoque would be even harder to maintain without adding a fair amount of weight, which would mean a rethinking of the HP to handle that addition and keep up the level of the driving experience, not to mention the added complication of crash-testing and approval of an entirely new gas tank and filler pipe arrangement.
I know in a lot of the disguised shots it seems there possibly may have been a left hand door, but in addition to deliberate confusion intended by the factory – we never really saw a door, only cladding on both sides – perhaps some reversed-negative subterfuge, inadvertent or not, was thrown in the mix.
I agree with Rob, the shot you pointed out Lav doesn’t actually show a door just is cladding that the factory used to hide details on the test cars.
We need to relize one thing, the Clubman is only going to have 3 doors and barn doors. I am sure it’t still going to be a hit, and wether we agree with the idea the designers ran with or not its the car that going to be delievered and many will be sold making it a sucess for Mini.
I think it’s pretty silly to have a single suicide door and that there aren’t any real reasons for having one over two. (“Structural rigidity and weight savings”? Guess what would be lighter than one!)
Same goes for the “barn doors.” But in the end, I’m not the one in the market for a “longer MINI,” and so I probably shouldn’t “get it.”
Could be they just taped up that side to make it look like a fourth door. That shot is old – prior to the R56 front end appearing on the test cars.
As far as all the debate over if they should have 3 or 4 doors, or barn doors or a hatch. I think its up to them to show us that the Clubman will out-perform other small hatchbacks, and whether or not these different doors add utility. I welcome the slightly larger version. Right now the Mini is always compared to C segment cars – the GTI, the MazdaSpeed 3, when its in a completely different class of smaller B cars. There is nothing in the US that even touches it in the B class. So lets see them give the C class cars a run for their money on more equal terms now.
It was just tape and plastic ‘camo’ on the left hand side of the car so that it would appear to have ‘suicide’ doors on both sides. People who have followed the ’55s progression either through Motoringfile or other sites will have read, looked at, or maybe even posted on some links where the club door has been discussed and would have seen that the matching cladding on the right hand side always looked worn, especially at the bottom edge where the door would meet the side skirt – SUGGESTING that the RH door had been opened and closed far more often than any door that MAY have existed on the LH side. But I can, have and will stress again – it’s only on the RIGHT HAND SIDE, reguardless of trim level, spec, or drive hand.
For us in RHD markets the suicide door is a problem.
A quick count of RHD countires – Austalia, UK, Ireland, ex-UK African colonies, India, South Africa, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia…have I missed any?
Now USA and Germany are the biggest LHD markets. UK is still the biggest market?
To put the door on the RHS of the car is BMW thinking -the same as BMW cars of old where RHD was a compromise (remember old E30 M3 was only made in LHD).
Do you honestly think a UK designer would disadvantage his own market?
This wasn’t an issue with old Mini Traveller – the fuel filler was in the rear guard behind the wheel and the tank under the boot floor – how hard would that have been to change?
The jury is still out on this decision but there’s nothing that can be done now. Left hand side passengers will have to get out and flip the seat down for us in RHD markets. Just as we do now.
In these times of the Euro – should GB become a LHD country? Not in my lifetime.
>Now USA and Germany are the biggest LHD markets. UK is still the biggest market?
I don’t disagree that the desicion is unfortunate for RHD markets. However it’s worth noting, according to the MINI USA VP, the US is expected to be the largest market for the foreseeable future. With the Clubman and the upcoming soft-roader, it’ll just get bigger. However the root of the decision lies with engineering and the fact that both a left door or two doors would have been a choice full of compromises.
The Clubman will be a terrific addition to the MINI family. I can see where customers from RHD countries are coming from in regards to the placement of the suicide door. We’ll see how this issue plays out once the car hits the streets.
It is my understanding that MINI did relocate the fuel filler assembly when working on the Cabrio. I just don’t see how this is now an obstacle in the Clubman (Which doe snot have the complexity of a convertible car).
Now that I have had my new MCS for a week, (my third MINI, which replaced an 05 MCS, which replaced an 02 Cooper) I can say that I love the car. It is much improved and I eagerly await the Clubman version, as my wife will be needing new wheels in the next year. She also loves driving my MINI. Right now she has a Kia Rio wagon, which is OK for what it is, trouble free, and roomy enough, but the MINI is in a different league.
The single door does not bother me in the least, and I personally love the barn door idea, so the Clubman might just be our 4th MINI.
I was originally upset when BMW destroyed all of Austin’s hard work but I eventually learned to tolerate the new MINI. Now having seen the Clubman and how totally unlike its original design I have re-affirmed my hatred of BMW. I wish people would leanr the history and heritage of things and tell the manufactuers they arent happy by not buying their product.
I forgot to mention the whole reasoning for my earlier post. This ‘Clubman’ should simply be an Estate or a Wagon. They havent altered the front end at all. It would be the same as calling the Volkswagon Beetle and Jetta the same car. The Mini (saloon,mayfair,city,1000,cooper,35,40,45,advantage,
etc..) and the Clubman are totally different cars and they should look different in more ways than by simply putting a cargo hold in the back.
I recently came across this website while searching for barn doors (not sure where the connection was for this link). Although this might be slightly off subject, I am completely mortified by BMW bringing out a “Clubman”. I have been a truely loyal fan to the orginal Mini. Having owned 5 of the beauties. However for those who think that the new MINI is a cool thing, first check out its ancestor before you make that purchase. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#The_Mini_Clubman_and_1275GT_.E2.80.93_1969_to_1980" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#The_Mini_Clubman_and_1275GT_.E2.80.93_1969_to_1980</a>
If BMW’s MINI is such the cool car then why have they already changed body style when the orginal Mini had the same body style for 45 years.
Bad attempt at trying to look like they have an orginal idea.
Personally, I think it is a pretty bad business decision to put money savings ahead of the needs and wants of your customers. There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors. This decision is going to bite them back pretty hard (The bottom line), specially in RHD countries where the existing suicide door will be facing the side of traffic.
There are similar failed attempts here in the US where this approach has failed: The Saturn Coupe and the AMC pacer with the “Longer” side door. These were viewed as gimmicks rather than really useful solutions to access the rear seat.
MINI should take lessons from the Mazda RX8 where both rear doors have been well received in the market.
I think MINI needs to reconsider this approach. I think they are taking the “Cost savings” mantra a little too far in the second generation MINI.
I wonder if the bean counters are the ones running BMW and not the engineers and the common sense?
What happened to my first post?
I wouldn’t think it so odd except that the brand markets national heritage when this model is clearly designed counter to what a British engineer would make. If this were marketed as American or German, it would seem logical to me.
“There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors.”
How about structural rigidity, and weight?
As for cost, perhaps they would have been better off avoiding the gimmickry of the twin boot doors, sticking with a simple hatch, and using that money toward a second rear door.
>Personally, I think it is a pretty bad business decision to put money savings ahead of the needs and wants of your customers. There is not compelling reason (Other than to save a few bucks at the assembly line) not to offer the Clubman with a apir of rear doors. This decision is going to bite them back pretty hard (The bottom line), specially in RHD countries where the existing suicide door will be facing the side of traffic.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’d MUCH rather save weight, cost, and manufacturing complexity and have one coach door rather than two. Two small coach doors would be complete overkill for the size of this car. Especially with what MINI has coming down the pipe-line in the next few years.
>There are similar failed attempts here in the US where this approach has failed: The Saturn Coupe and the AMC pacer with the “Longer†side door. These were viewed as gimmicks rather than really useful solutions to access the rear seat.
Those vehicles failed because they were terrible products that few people wanted to buy or be seen in. Comparing them with the Clubman is a simplistic argument at best.
MultiplePersonalities, FrankinMiami, or whatever you want to call yourself this week. I think the whole notion that bean counters are driving the process is your own personal delusion.
The more I see, the more I like. The barn doors are superior to a hatch, IMHO. Finally, a MINI my two dogs can ride in!
I like two doors at the back, but prefer the glass-up, metal-down approach used by station wagons. The glass opens pneumatically when you have hands full of groceries, and the door drops down to give you a longer loading bed when you have to carry something large. I’d not feel comfortable driving with barn doors open. Gravity won’t keep them from swinging when I make a corner.
…personally, one of the reasons i want a Clubman (diesel, if possible) is BECAUSE of the single coach door…
…my friend drives an Element and he and i were just talking about how he NEVER uses the driver’s side suicide door unless he’s cleaning it out…
…i can see people in the U.K. being miffed out of spite for convenience sake, but c’mon it’s not more inconvenient then trying to get in the back of a Tahoe…
…small car + semi-practical = MINI…
…a beautiful equation…
It is lovely how my posts are duly scrutinized and disected by the usual suspects (Not you Gabe, you don’t resort to personal attacks, unlike some other individual that shall remain nameless).
I don’t care what the Lavarderas of the world think or don’t think. I stand by my comments and think that the one rear door approach is not the best strategy for the long term success of the Clubman. Mark my words.
But worse than that, having a single rear access door on the right side of the vehicle on RHD is simply assinine.
My R55 Clubman S order still stands. We are looking forward to the car and all it has to offer.
Gabe I don’t know if you have or don’t have children of your own, but when you have an additional pair of doors out in the back, it is a God send. If you don’t have kids at this point in time, may be this notion is a little hard to fully understand.
But all things considered, having a single rear door is better than none.
So the MC will have dual exhaust? and also now single rear wiper in the back? (better looking)
It seems so from the German site photos …
The higher off the ground and bulkier look of the new gen is so much better suited for a longer wheelbase …
Potential UK customers are not thrilled about the rear door location. See thread at MINI2:
<a href="http://www.mini2.com/forum/future-variants/138882-mini-confirm-clubman-suicide-rear-door-layout.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.mini2.com/forum/future-variants/138882-mini-confirm-clubman-suicide-rear-door-layout.html</a>
Aurel, the squared off back, taller windows and roof line will make the R55 take back the body proportions missing in the coupe.
Listen – this is just a car. We are people. There is no point in making anything here personal.
Frank – I think many readers are more than a little annoyed at your constant badgering of posters who don’t agree with you and your almost spam like comments that reiterate the same points over and over again. Yet this site has made the conscious decision to look the other way (despite many reader complaints) and let you comment at will – assuming you’d get the subtle hints. The least you can do in return is come down off your soap-box a little when you comment.
Senor Bridger, I was attacked by Lavardera and then I answered in response. Big mistake. Also a big mistake to post in this forum.
I’ll will leave you in peace.
Please go out and celebrate!!!!
Gabe has known me for the past 4-5 years. How sad is to end my participation in this site this way. I am accused and attacked and yet I am identified as the attacker. I am deeply dissapointed in Gabe. Thanks dude, really nice.
Don’t worry, I’ll dissapear in the shadows of time and more than likely you’ll never have the displeasure to ever hear from me or much less meet me. Too bad the internet effectively shuts down and dilutes the little humanity we have left on each of us.
This is your site and your little kingdom of glory and fame. I have more important and better things to do with my life than to engage in conversations with people that I will never see in my life. I’ll continue to love and enjoy my MINIs, my wonderful wife and my 5 month old baby boy, which are the greatest blessings in my life.
Why take away precious minutes of my life from them, by posting in internet message boards?
Rejoice detractors, rejoice!!!! Your nemesis is leaving and getting lost for eternity!
You don’t truly know Gabe if you think this site has anything to do with fame.
Great latitude is afforded to all.
Bye Bye.
I think we can all agree that Clubman would be a “better” car if it either had two rear doors or at least a left door for RHD markets. Unfortunately the truth hurts and the automotive industry is not all about building better cars.
There are people who will buy other cars rather than accept a single rear door on the right. No doubt a committee at BMW estimated the amount of lost sales, and compared it with the cost of manufacturing other configurations. Nothing is set in stone. Their decision tilted one way for now, but trust me they will quickly change the design if they find it necessary for reaching their sales and profitability goals.
. . . returning to topic . . .
Since we’re (were) on the topic of the Clubman’s doors, I’m reminded of my nagging doubts about the practicality of those located to the rear. While I realize the horse is already “out of the barn” 😉 on this, and I concur with the designer’s desire to tip the hat to the Classic Mini’s barn doors, I’m really wondering if, in the final analysis, it might’ve been wiser to stick with the existing hatch. Here’s what I’m thinking. For one, it seems loading and unloading with this design will be a bit trickier. For instance, when unloading, remember that a larger item will not only have to clear the trunk first, but you’ll then have to continue backing up with that object until you clear the doors and can pivot away, being careful not to do so prematurely or you’ll bash the inside of the barn door. Even if the doors swing pretty wide, (you can bet it won’t approach 180 degrees) there’ll be a part of that door, particularly with heavy and bulky items, that you’ll wish wasn’t there. Also, the roof line in the rear seems to curl down slightly above the door which I worry might make this access even more claustrophobic. The beauty of the existing hatch, and I think we owners know from experience, is its simplicity. It moves up and out of the way and reveals the most open access to the rear of the car. In rainy conditions, it provides a useful umbrella effect for the user and his trunk. Likewise, when open in sunny conditions, it can provide a shading effect. Lastly, very often, more doors equal less rigidity and more rattles, and in this case, one extra wiper to go bad. 😉 Anywho, I realize these nifty barn doors are a done deal, and I’ll be the first to agree that they’re a cool throwback feature, but, I’m still kinda wondering . . . .
Good riddens!!!
>Gabe has known me for the past 4-5 years. How sad is to end my participation in this site this way. I am accused and attacked and yet I am identified as the attacker. I am deeply dissapointed in Gabe. Thanks dude, really nice.
As much as I’d love to fill pages and pages of your comments that illustrate the point I made above (with multiple names – at times agreeing with each other) I will let it go. I have many better things to do – as apparently you do.
However, (and I want to make this clear) you’re more than welcome to post comments to any story on MotoringFile in a civil manner in the spirit of the car, the community and the site. No one here is stopping you or telling you not to. That’s the last I intend to say about this – no matter what else you say about me or this site.
I am rather indifferent if the Clubman has one or two doors. I mean come on; I think most of the people who drive a Mini are doing it because it reflects something in their personalities. Any Mini driver makes small sacrifices every now and then because of the size and layout of the car.
The new Clubman will have more room but even with two doors the additional gain will be a tad better for those seeking or needing the room. But, having said that even with a Clubman sacrifices will still be made. The fact this is a small car any way you cut it, 11 inches will not do much rather than make the back seats semi-useable. Trying to remember once in the last five years of the new mini when I though, dang if I just had 11 inches all would cure it all.
My first reaction was to think of the rear barn doors as leaning too much towards retro. But as bits of information have come out – such as the tail lights fitting through a hole in the door, I’m wondering if there is not more going on here that we just don’t know about yet. There may be something unique about the way these doors swing open that make them function better than we would expect. I think back to the way the doors were hinged in the concept car which was unusual and I wonder if any of that may have carried over.
> I think back to the way the doors were hinged in the concept car which was unusual and I wonder if any of that may have carried over.
Yes – a version of that will be carried over. Check out the R55 section – we’ve reported on this feature in a couple previous articles.
As a user of the original Countryman doors, as well as the barn doors on my recent Suburban, they are infinitely more practical than a hatchback or a tailgate for a wagon. The rigidity of the body is prolly compromised less than with a hatchback, as there is a center support when the doors are closed, rather than one large opening. The smaller any cavity is, the better it is for a monocoque structure. The advantage to the barn doors in unloading is you don’t have to duck under a hatch, and can walk upright all the way to the back of the floor when you’re carrying something heavy; been there, done that, and the two doors are simple enough to close. I look forward to ’em.
“The fact this is a small car any way you cut it, 11 inches will not do much rather than make the back seats semi-useable. Trying to remember once in the last five years of the new mini when I though, dang if I just had 11 inches all would cure it all.”
Jon,
I’m pretty much in agreement. I’ve had many occasions to giggle myself to near blissful death after seeing what I can haul in a MINI.
I recently fit a 40″ TV in the back. 33″ between wheel wells (if you remove the rear plug to the outlet on the left) and the box was 32 7/8″ width and a bit over 42″ long. I had to sit a bit close that visually it seemed more reminiscent of the original with the front of the car feeling a foot closer.
And my MINI seems to love IKEA, as long as I stick to boxes
I an not a big fan of the rear barn doors, rather have a hatch with two coach doors. The Mazda RX8 proves the 2 coach doors can work on a sports car. Put the refinement of the car in passenger access to the rear seats, not a complex and heavy set of rear barn doors, it’s a sports wagon not a minivan.
I am amazed that a little car which comes out of the factory in which I work can cause so many petty arguements BUT ANYWAY – Yes, having only one ‘club’ door as it is now labelled may be something for RHD markets to grumble about, but I do hope people will realise that the door is only on the RH side for one very important reason – the location of the fuel tank and filler pipe. I hated the ’55 when I first saw it rolling down the line, but now, the more of them I see and especially coloured ones (rather than the bland black) I have grown to appreciate and almost like them – Maybe because it’ll keep me in work for the next 5 years and not much else lol.
Keep your eyes peeled and wait for the official launch before making too many judgements – especially if you’re not as ‘updated’ as some people on here, asking questions such as “Will the Cooper have two exhaust pipes?” NO IT BLOODY WONT!
Peace LOL
Well Billy it’s not petty aguements as much as it’s fanatics endlessly disscussing every nuance of these little cars. While it’s very true about the filler pipe being in the way of a second door, I am sure many will ask why they didn’t move it. The fact of the matter is the Clubman will have only one side “club” door and still the car is going to be a hit.
As for all the poeple I know that drive Minis their mini purchase wasn’t about making the practical choice, rather its about driving a very fun and interesting car.
I looked back at the concept photos and the tail lights do poke through holes in the doors as has been mentioned. Their hinging allows them to swing way to the side, and actually overlap with the length of the car for a portion of their width. This means the will not require as much clearance at the rear as a simply hinged barn door.
Also if you look back at the hot weather testing photos that were posted long ago you can see that at least one of those cars had the rear door on the left hand side.
<a href="http://motoringfile.com/pictures/traveler_africa_IMGA0494.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://motoringfile.com/pictures/traveler_africa_IMGA0494.jpg</a>
let me try that link again:
[photo of hot weather testing](<a href="http://motoringfile.com/pictures/traveler_africa_IMGA0494.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://motoringfile.com/pictures/traveler_africa_IMGA0494.jpg</a>)
The freak’n barn doors suck, I don’t care if they are like the original! If this is supposed to be a car that is driving inspired why would you want some obstructions like those blocking your view? Someone above suggested barn doors are superior to a hatch???? HUH! IDTS! Maybe on a Monster SUV that might be OK but stupid here.
I agree with Gabe, I presume, that one is more than enough, hell they really didn’t need even that one. I guess mama’s need this for kids seats installation but other than that why bother with it at all?
I am looking forward to seeing the Clubman when it does appear at dealers here. I don’t really care whether it has two side doors on either side — my kids are all grown up and gone, but I can tell you I probably would care if they were here and still young.
About the barn doors — in my classic Woody, what you see in the rear view mirror isn’t much! There’s a huge blind spot from that center pier of the two doors, which necessitates wing mirrors. Of course the inside mirror isn’t all that large either, and when one has it fully loaded, no interior mirror will help.
Paul
The classics had no real rear view due to the technology of the time – the windows were small for that reason. Modern methods will help with enlarging that area.
I would venture to guess the weight of two barn doors is possibly less than a hatchback, and there would be less superstructure weight at the top of the roof to handle the hinges there and where the struts are braced. Talk to me when you’ve used barn doors for years, or if one doesn’t decide to try, they have no basis for anyone to recognize their opinion as valid other than as an uninformed guess. I will not resort to name-calling and capital-shouting as some with less ability to express themselves in a civil manner have done here lately, but as someone who drove a classic Mini wagon that had essentially ‘S’ running gear, it was a kick-ass Mini by any measure, and a helluva sporting wagon, so I see no reason for the MINI Clubman driving experience to be degraded.
I think nothing would compromise the basic handling more than another door on the left-hand side, as the rigidity of the monocoque would be even harder to maintain without adding a fair amount of weight, which would mean a rethinking of the HP to handle that addition and keep up the level of the driving experience, not to mention the added complication of crash-testing and approval of an entirely new gas tank and filler pipe arrangement.
I know in a lot of the disguised shots it seems there possibly may have been a left hand door, but in addition to deliberate confusion intended by the factory – we never really saw a door, only cladding on both sides – perhaps some reversed-negative subterfuge, inadvertent or not, was thrown in the mix.
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
I agree with Rob, the shot you pointed out Lav doesn’t actually show a door just is cladding that the factory used to hide details on the test cars.
We need to relize one thing, the Clubman is only going to have 3 doors and barn doors. I am sure it’t still going to be a hit, and wether we agree with the idea the designers ran with or not its the car that going to be delievered and many will be sold making it a sucess for Mini.
I think it’s pretty silly to have a single suicide door and that there aren’t any real reasons for having one over two. (“Structural rigidity and weight savings”? Guess what would be lighter than one!)
Same goes for the “barn doors.” But in the end, I’m not the one in the market for a “longer MINI,” and so I probably shouldn’t “get it.”
Could be they just taped up that side to make it look like a fourth door. That shot is old – prior to the R56 front end appearing on the test cars.
As far as all the debate over if they should have 3 or 4 doors, or barn doors or a hatch. I think its up to them to show us that the Clubman will out-perform other small hatchbacks, and whether or not these different doors add utility. I welcome the slightly larger version. Right now the Mini is always compared to C segment cars – the GTI, the MazdaSpeed 3, when its in a completely different class of smaller B cars. There is nothing in the US that even touches it in the B class. So lets see them give the C class cars a run for their money on more equal terms now.
It was just tape and plastic ‘camo’ on the left hand side of the car so that it would appear to have ‘suicide’ doors on both sides. People who have followed the ’55s progression either through Motoringfile or other sites will have read, looked at, or maybe even posted on some links where the club door has been discussed and would have seen that the matching cladding on the right hand side always looked worn, especially at the bottom edge where the door would meet the side skirt – SUGGESTING that the RH door had been opened and closed far more often than any door that MAY have existed on the LH side. But I can, have and will stress again – it’s only on the RIGHT HAND SIDE, reguardless of trim level, spec, or drive hand.
>I can, have and will stress again – it’s only on the RIGHT HAND SIDE, reguardless of trim level, spec, or drive hand.
Listen to the man… he knows 🙂
For us in RHD markets the suicide door is a problem.
A quick count of RHD countires – Austalia, UK, Ireland, ex-UK African colonies, India, South Africa, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia…have I missed any?
Now USA and Germany are the biggest LHD markets. UK is still the biggest market?
To put the door on the RHS of the car is BMW thinking -the same as BMW cars of old where RHD was a compromise (remember old E30 M3 was only made in LHD).
Do you honestly think a UK designer would disadvantage his own market?
This wasn’t an issue with old Mini Traveller – the fuel filler was in the rear guard behind the wheel and the tank under the boot floor – how hard would that have been to change?
The jury is still out on this decision but there’s nothing that can be done now. Left hand side passengers will have to get out and flip the seat down for us in RHD markets. Just as we do now.
In these times of the Euro – should GB become a LHD country? Not in my lifetime.
>Now USA and Germany are the biggest LHD markets. UK is still the biggest market?
I don’t disagree that the desicion is unfortunate for RHD markets. However it’s worth noting, according to the MINI USA VP, the US is expected to be the largest market for the foreseeable future. With the Clubman and the upcoming soft-roader, it’ll just get bigger. However the root of the decision lies with engineering and the fact that both a left door or two doors would have been a choice full of compromises.
I think Mini Should Scrap the idea of the clubman…But that just me
The Clubman will be a terrific addition to the MINI family. I can see where customers from RHD countries are coming from in regards to the placement of the suicide door. We’ll see how this issue plays out once the car hits the streets.
It is my understanding that MINI did relocate the fuel filler assembly when working on the Cabrio. I just don’t see how this is now an obstacle in the Clubman (Which doe snot have the complexity of a convertible car).
I wish MINI much success with the Clubman.
Gabe,
Any indication on when the JCW package would be available on the Clubman? Thanks
Now that I have had my new MCS for a week, (my third MINI, which replaced an 05 MCS, which replaced an 02 Cooper) I can say that I love the car. It is much improved and I eagerly await the Clubman version, as my wife will be needing new wheels in the next year. She also loves driving my MINI. Right now she has a Kia Rio wagon, which is OK for what it is, trouble free, and roomy enough, but the MINI is in a different league.
The single door does not bother me in the least, and I personally love the barn door idea, so the Clubman might just be our 4th MINI.
I was originally upset when BMW destroyed all of Austin’s hard work but I eventually learned to tolerate the new MINI. Now having seen the Clubman and how totally unlike its original design I have re-affirmed my hatred of BMW. I wish people would leanr the history and heritage of things and tell the manufactuers they arent happy by not buying their product.
I forgot to mention the whole reasoning for my earlier post. This ‘Clubman’ should simply be an Estate or a Wagon. They havent altered the front end at all. It would be the same as calling the Volkswagon Beetle and Jetta the same car. The Mini (saloon,mayfair,city,1000,cooper,35,40,45,advantage,
etc..) and the Clubman are totally different cars and they should look different in more ways than by simply putting a cargo hold in the back.
I recently came across this website while searching for barn doors (not sure where the connection was for this link). Although this might be slightly off subject, I am completely mortified by BMW bringing out a “Clubman”. I have been a truely loyal fan to the orginal Mini. Having owned 5 of the beauties. However for those who think that the new MINI is a cool thing, first check out its ancestor before you make that purchase. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#The_Mini_Clubman_and_1275GT_.E2.80.93_1969_to_1980" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#The_Mini_Clubman_and_1275GT_.E2.80.93_1969_to_1980</a>
If BMW’s MINI is such the cool car then why have they already changed body style when the orginal Mini had the same body style for 45 years.
Bad attempt at trying to look like they have an orginal idea.