Clearing of the inbox Sunday night brings us today’s Ask Motoringfile. This one sent in by MF Reader (but not yet MINI owner) Brendan.
>You see, I’m not a MINI owner but I want to be in the worst way. I’ve made up my mind to go for a Cooper, BRG white roof… my dream MINI. The only question now is do I hunt down an R50 or order up a custom R56?
Being a huge fan of the R50 myself, an ’05 or ’06 sure would be sweet to have. But with all of the improvement with the R56, it would be tough to decide. Of course, you should drive both to see what you like better.
We talk quite a bit around these parts about the MCS, with very little love for it’s normally aspirated brother. Not many reviews to be found either, so it makes the research tough.
Let’s hear from you MC owners! And the first commenter to crack wise about not getting an MCS gets 3 Monday’s worth of detention and no dessert for a week!
I just spent a week with a 2006 R50 Cooper and really enjoyed it. It reminded me of my first ’02 Cooper I put nearly 50K miles on. Tons of personality with very immediate steering and <em>just</em> enough acceleration. Personally I think a completely stock (15″ wheels) R50 looks better than a similarly equipped R56 Cooper.
However once you size up the wheels and tires a bit, the R56 comes into it’s own. Also it’s much more refined, much better on gas and has an engine and drivetrain that is quite a bit more eager to rev.
I guess I would say (and it’s with a heavy heart) if you can afford the ’07/’08 Cooper, go for it. However if you need to go used due to finances, there are few betters cars out there than a ’05 or ’06 (manual) Cooper.
And there are still a bunch of 06’s out there at dealerships if your preference is new, but not R56. You’ll of course be limited to stock on hand, but in my opinion, the R50 is my favorite of the two.
I had a 03 Cooper and in April traded up to an R56 Cooper and while both have goods and bads over all the R56 is the better car and more fun to drive in my honest opinion.
R50 FTW.
However, I haven’t driven an R56 yet.
Why are we rehashing “new vs old” Mini again? Hey dude, nut up and get a MCS.
you could get a deal on an ’06 & be very satisfied.
drive ’em both & decide based on motoring experience, Brendan. the R56 will retain its value better initially, but if you’re hanging onto your dream car for a while, those numbers fall away.
driving an R53 while the mod-learning curve was steep, was fab… so, there may be something to being a part of the new motoring erudition [R56].
In May I went from an 05 MC to and 07 MCS.
With my 05 MC, I could never get the seats to fit me quite right. I’m an average guy, 6′ and 190lbs. There’s nothing worse then consently fiddling around with the seating position and never being satified. I also found the MC lacked just that little bit of punch off the line.
I love my 07 MCS, it’s everything my 05 was and everything it wasn’t.
Drive both.
I do have to admit though, the looks of the R50 with the 16inch 5 spokes … classic.
I am not very fond of the R56. But this time I would encourage you to go the R56 MC route. Why? Simple, because the R56 MC has finally been given a proper 6-speed manual gearbox = better fuel economy and a more relaxed highway cruising. My main and only caveat with the R50 MC is the lack of a sixth gear. It makes long haul highway driving not the most ideal thing in the world (The engine RPMs are turning near the 4K mark @ 70MPH)
Having said that, I MUCH prefer the steering calibration and overall looks of the R50 MC over the R56 MC. The öld”car is streets better in the aesthetics department. But the lack of a 6th gear in the R50 was reason enough to consider the R53 MCS, at least for me.
The R50 MC CVT is a MUCH better highway cruiser than the 5-speed version, hands down.
If MINI had given the R50 MC a 6-speed gearbox I am sure its highway fuel mileage would have been in the low 40’s.
Much like Astro S I’m going from a R50 to a R56 MCS. I’m sure I’ll miss the R50 because it was fun to drive and when shod with holies it was whole bunch of fun to drive.
If you can get a good deal on a R50 do it but if you can’t the R56 is fine.
As an 06′ R50 owner, I would ask yourself this. What are you intending to do with it. Is it a daily, a weekend car, single, married, kids? Do you plan to mod, if so there’s limited options. Cost an issue (dealers wanting to get rid of an 06′ to get the 07’s in) then there’s the issue of quality. Older gen versus new gen.
Decisions, decisions, but decide what’s the best for you because either way, it’s a MINI and you’re going to love it.
great question.
We have an 06 MC, 5 spd.
i was not very impressed with the day to day drivabililty of the super charged MCS, and additional cost and lower MPG
we recently drove the 07 MC and MCS. liked both very much.
the seats, engine and tranny impressed me very much with their improvements.
we actually tried selling the 06 toward an 07 MC, but got only two semiserious bites. so we are going to stick with the 06 MC.
if you are going to keep the car for the long term, i would stick with an 06 since most bmw bugs are worked out.
if you are going to keep for a year or two. go with the 07.
the 07 is a much nicer ride, although the gap between the wheel and body is HUGE and the center stack is ugly and stuck with unintuitive controls..
tough choice either way, both nice cars…..
How do you decide between a regular used Cooper and a spankin’ new turbo Cooper S. Either you want speed or not. One’s more expensive and the other one is cheap. I could understand if it was R53 v. R56.
If you want one, get a R56.
I said:
>And the first commenter to crack wise about not getting an MCS gets 3 Monday’s worth of detention and no dessert for a week!
ImUrTrboLvr said:
>How do you decide between a regular used Cooper and a spankin’ new turbo Cooper S
Brendan asked:
>I’ve made up my mind to go for a Cooper, BRG white roof
He doesn’t want an MCS, he wants a Cooper. Believe it or not, there are some of us out here that aren’t looking for a hot rod, but something fun to drive every day to work that is comfortable and gets great gas mileage. Crazy, I know.
Let’s stay on task please. Compare the R50 to the R56 MC as much as you want, but don’t try to compare the MC to the MCS.
I’ve never driven an R56 MC. I gotta do that.
Wow. Color me surprised. I wrote that question!
Well, thanks everyone for your advice. I have driven both cars but not to the extent to notice a huge difference. The R56 MC is a nice car but I kind of get this feeling that it’s missing some soul. And it got chubby-looking. And two inches longer (it’s called the MINI for chrissakes what are you doing enlarging it, BMW?) Despite its shortcomings I really liked it. Even I was surprised. The sport seats are really comfy, the sport button is like an adrenaline shot to the heart. Everything becomes hypersensitive and fun. And it’s got the more efficient drivetrain (as mentioned above) with the snappy Getrag 6-speed. And believe you me I often wish my VW New Beetle had a 6th gear so I’m not revving it at 4000+ on the freeway.
But…
The R50 feels like a much more pure car. Despite its shortcomings and potential problems (rattles, transmission failures, mushrooming) it is a British car. I realised the other day that if I want a car with character and a reliable car I really can’t have both. Plus, the R50 is a class act with a simple, straightforward interior and a classic looking exterior. It’s the neo-retro automobile which didn’t dissapoint. It’s not all looks. Unlike the PT Cruiser or the VW New Beetle it is true to its intent. It appears to be ready to play and by george it is. And it doesn’t need a sport button. It lives and breathes sport.
That said, I’m still deciding. I probably won’t bite the bullet until early next year. And if I go the R56 direction it’ll be an ’08 model for sure. I’m looking for an R50 from 2003 to 2005 or if I can get a hold of a 2006 one (looks grim right now though) which meets my strict specifications.
And for those MCS people out there– the major consideration for not getting an S is because of the lack of spare tire. I can’t condone having runflats on a car. It’s such a cop-out these days with sports cars leaving out a spare tire because it has runflats. The other reason is the fuel efficiency. It’s alright but not stellar.
So as you see I’ve been doing my homework and meditating on this a lot. Again, I really appreciate the input. I’ll be reading these posts all day!
-brendan
If you are getting an used R50 MC 5-speed stick with a 2005 or 2006 model. Why? Because MINI switched transmission suppliers at the beginning of the 2005 model year. The ’02-’04 MC 5-speed transmission was sourced from Midland Gears and was an old R65 Rover design. It was a fine transmission when it worked, but it suffers from poor reliability. From model year 2005 and 2006, MINI changed to a Getrag sourced 5-speed gearbox that is a totally different animal from the Midland Gears. It too, has revised gearing ratios. The Getrag gearboxes are much better bets than the old Rover derived R65 Midland gears 5-speed.
I had the same decision to make back when the ’07 was announced and I was planning on getting a MC. I knew I wanted a MC over a MCS after test driving both. I felt the MCS was just too jerky and a rougher drive for me. Mainly, my decision was based on gas mileage, lack of spare tire, and little kooky things like battery location, oil stick location, colour differences, etc.
Anyway, getting back on track. I chose an ’06 over an ’07 mostly because of looks. I knew it would have better gas mileage, better materials, more horsepower, but I just couldn’t get over the ugliness of the interior and the changes to the exterior – it just doesn’t look right to me. I didn’t want an embedded stereo in the odometer or the mandatory silver center stack. There are elements of the ’07 I like, but not enough to make me want one. I have been extremely happy with my ’06 and plan on keeping it a long, long time.
I say base your decision on your gut feeling and if more things bug you about the ’07 then go with an earlier model. Figure out what you main priorities are and go with the car that fits it.
Have about 108,000 miles on ’02 R50 CVT, which is in effect a 7-speed tranny if you use manual, the last ratio being an overdrive. Great car, and Nigel is right, at highway speeds it cruises at lower revs than the manual; however street driving is mainly best at the top end of the revs for the R50. I’m tall and it works for me as long as no one sits behind the driver’s seat. I wouldn’t have kept it if I didn’t like it, so if you can find a good deal for any R50, (’05 or ’06 if manual) go for it.
That said, I’ve come to the conclusion that the R50 in any version is best as a one-person car, or maybe two wee people at most – the addition of an extra body makes a noticeable change in the performance envelope, which as Gabe said has just enough go-fast – while I love my Cooper, I would like a bit more juice at times. I believe the R56 is much the same in this respect as the R50, but I felt it has a bit more grunt, so it would be an upgrade in that respect, to say nothing of the better gas mileage and other mechanical improvements, and tho I do have issues with some of the styling aspects, that’s a personal aspect only. At this point, I’d say go with the R56 if you want it exactly like you imagine, or a low mileage R50 if it’s close enough to your dream MINI.
Oops… I meant speedometer not odometer… eh, it’s Friday, I’m tired 😉
I was in a similar predicament – choosing between the R56 and R50/53. I waited with much excitement for the unveiling and first drives of the R56, and read all of the reviews posted here on MF. I greatly value Mr. Bridger’s opinion, and in the end I decided to go with the older model. I agree that the R56 is an improved car, it’s more comfortable and (from what I have read) more capable, however I preferred the fact that the R50/53 wasn’t. I believe the R50/53 styling is a bit purer – it looks like a classic, and the proportions are a bit better. I like the little details such as the headlights in the bonnet, the location and design of the wipers, and the rear glass wrap around. And I too was put off by the car growing, however insignificant. I also preferred the simplicity and proven reliability of the Tritec engines (being a Dodge guy, I also liked that it’ a Mopar). My decision wasn’t based on performance and I didn’t drive a R56. After months of deliberation I decided to go with a R50/53 – the specific model determined by dealer inventory and options available at the time. Every time I see a R56, and I’ve see quite a few, I think it’s a great car, and wouldn’t rule out owning one, but I’m very happy with my R53.
I like the R56 with the Sport package (and especially the Sport button). If your spouse needs it, he/she can always turn the sport mode off. Without the Sport mode, I like the R53.
The R56 is noticeably more economical and also just as quick if not quicker. You might miss the rough and tumble rawness of the R53 though.
I would say a low mileage, low option R50 Cooper would be a blast. 2004 has been a good year for me, the interiors with the ’05-’06 are a bit nicer- fewer panels in the dash, actual armrests on the door. With the 5speed, the steering and handling are superb, and the Tritec is pretty fun to ring out. That said, I’ve driven the R56 and it is a lot smoother overall, not as much of the immediate fun edge of the R50. By pressing the sport button on the R56 you get most of the steering fun back.
I have an ’04 R50 and will never give him up. And after not being tempted at all to get the R56 after the testdrive, I’d say drive both and go for what you like. Both are excellent choices in the end.
I have an ’04 Cooper CVT and absolutely love it! I do not like the looks of the R56 and will most likely not upgrade unless I could get my hands on an ’05 or ’06. To me, MINI lost its charm with the chubby/bulkier R56. I’m planning on getting a new car next year and it will probably be a Hybrid (Prius, maybe?). The Hybrids are only cars that are as enticing as the R50’s when they came out. With that said, I’m still keeping my ’04. I love it too much to give it up. I will upgrade it when BMW’s MINI designs a new one that fits my taste.
We are happy ’04 CVT owners that plan to upgrade to the R56 MC next year. We then hope to drive it on MTTS 2008 (assuming that it is held, of course!)
…i had a 03 BRG MC and traded it in on a 06 DS/S MCS last october…
…i haven’t fully experienced the 07 models but if you are enamored with the ‘original’ new MINI as it sounds like you are, go for it…
…get the R50 but get an 05 or 06, the quality is so much better and the subtle improvements in lighting, in addition to the much better transmission make them better if you want to keep this car long-term…
…my wife still laments the loss of the BRG MC, but we will probably spring for a BRG Clubman next year…
…you will have plenty of time to buy the ‘new’ model and you will kick yourself if you don’t take a chance on the classic…
Not getting an S because of no spare tire? As far as I know the MC doesn’t have one either. All time lamest excuse for being cheap.
Greg, all R50 Cooper hardtops and R52 Cabrios come with a spare tire (Because the exhaust is mounted sideways and the battery is upfront creating the required room), regardless of whether the car came equipped with 15″ radial tires or 16″ runflats. The tire is underneath the trunk area of the car and can be lowered with a wrench.
I have made long haul trips in my MCS with second generation runflat tires and no spare and have no ‘fear’ of a flat tire. Runflat tires have a tremendous advantage over standard radials…. They don’t experience sudden and dangerous blow outs.
>Not getting an S because of no spare tire? As far as I know the MC doesn’t have one either. All time lamest excuse for being cheap.
The Cooper does, in fact, have a spare tire. Has since ’01 as far as I know.
So, wanting the security of a spare tire in case of a blowout or flat is a lame excuse? Really? Wow.
I got a 06/R50/CVT cooper for almost a year.And test drive R56 cooper also.
My thought,in the looks,R56 cooper have lost some soul,includinding the exterior,interior, shapes,lights,bigger size.I prefer R50,especial the old interior,exterior shape,lines.
In the drive,R56 got a comfortable seats and the easy gear changing,fuel cost less,very easy to drive.But also I like R50 more.CVT is very smooth when you do city drive,the suspension is harder than R56 ,so good for mountain road drive.If you want a hard drive,R50 provides the 6 gear “S” mamual mode,it’s fresh for hard driving.Some R53 owner cannot catch me on the city roads and mountain roads.Although i got a 17″/8 spoke wheel on it…get heavy & gass cost much.but drive fun and classic looks is the most important.By the way,the stereo system sounds very good in music playing with mp3 allowed.muchhhhhhh~~ better than R56.If you like music,it gives you a good mood when you drive your mini.
All in all,I think R50/Cooper is most original classic mini in all models.especially the 05~06 models looks.Whatever,they are all minis,always the most fun cars.
<blockquote>Not getting an S because of no spare tire? As far as I know the MC doesn’t have one either. All time lamest excuse for being cheap.</blockquote>
Not a very informed statement – MCs come with a spare, which can make a big difference in driving enjoyment, so it has nothing to do with price. I know of a MCS owner or two who were glad I had mine to borrow when they had flats in the middle of the Nevada desert.
I stand corrected. I had no idea the MC had a spare tire. Still…buy an S and some fix a flat.
Wow, DB. You say this: <blockquote>Let’s hear from you MC owners! And the first commenter to crack wise about not getting an MCS gets 3 Monday’s worth of detention and no dessert for a week!</blockquote>
and folks still can’t help themselves:
<blockquote>…Hey dude, nut up and get a MCS.</blockquote>
<blockquote>… Still…buy an S and some fix a flat.</blockquote>
Then there’s this:
<blockquote>… All time lamest excuse for being cheap.</blockquote>
Next to the comment about Coopers having no spares, this has got to be the most short sited comment about Cooper ownership yet.
Oh wait, they’re from the same person. I sense a trend. JK 😉
I’ve read and heard some great points about upgrading from a Cooper to a Cooper S. Unfortunately, these aren’t any of them.
BTW:
<blockquote>How do you decide between a regular used Cooper and a spankin’ new turbo Cooper S….</blockquote>
The R56 comes in a Cooper as well. 😉
After two R53s (03/06) I am picking up a low mileage 02 Cooper with a 5spd. So far I think it is going to be the most entertaining car, while still being practical (spare tire and all), and returning decent fuel economy.
I love my O3 MC (January 03 build, ordered in August 02) despite its flaws. I am on my second tranny, second power steering pump, second set of window motors, second set of door handles, second rear windshield wiper motor, various latches have been replaced, it blows light bulbs all the time and I am afraid to find out why, and I have rattles and squeaks. I love my 15 inch hollies. I love my Indi Blue/White combination. Love how it is a totally different car in third gear at high revs. So, long term reliability might not be so great. I can live with that. She’s a daily driver….would not trade her for the world.
We own an 04 MCS too. Great car. Fun to drive. But not for me. Have not driven the new generation yet.
There are actually some of us out there who don’t need anything other than a MC to make us smile all day!
I’m going from a R53 MCS to a R55 MCC for my next MINI. And from a stick to an auto. The new MC is much smoother all around and with the sport button, the excellent auto (with paddles, please) turns into a slick-shifting little slot car. As the roads continue to deterioriate around here, I need something a little softer, and with my child growing by leaps and bounds, I need something a little bigger. To cap it all off, I want more fuel economy as well. It looks like the Clubbie is for me. Despite losing the SC and the awesome “flicability” of my R53, I’m not losing anything with the updated version. I just wish that they would shrink that speedo, tone down the 36D dash vents and revise the cartoonish center stack…all things that I’ll probably have to learn to live with.
I own an 06 Cooper. Last weekend I went to a local MINI dealer and drove an R53, R56 S, R56 Cooper and an my R50 in succession on the same route. The R56 Cooper was a good car but it was my least favorite of the bunch (before I am accused of being an R56 hater I REALLY liked the R56 S, but this is not a comparison of Cooper v. Cooper S). While the R56 Cooper’s engine was smoother and ran better with the AC on, it didn’t have the same solid and quality feel as my R50. Maybe I’m just used to driving my car so it feels more familiar, but it was just a little more fun despite the slightly worse gas mileage.
R50 is nice and, in comparison w/ R56 is a bit rough around the edges…which is very Mini. There’s much to love/prefer about that. However, the new Cooper engine is fantastic and, along w/ the 6th gear and nice overall finish, makes the R56 Cooper a winner. This should not come as a shock…it is a “next generation” car.
Being an owner of a R53, I did get the opportunity to drive a friend’s R56 Cooper for a fair bit. Though the acceleration cannot compare, the R56 was a pleasure to drive. My friend had opted for the 6 spd and standard supsension and 15 inch wheels. Winding out the gears and attacking the esses left me impressed. The better mileage is icing on the cake. Like the R50, it is no slouch through tight bends.
If I had the cash layout, I would spring for the R56 cooper for a daily driver and the JCW Challenge car for track days. Alas, I must be content with my R53 for a few more years. 🙂 I have also driven the R56 MCS at the dealer’s.