White Roof Radio #203
Apologies, again, for those of you that get your WRR fix from the Motoringfile player. I was out of town last weekend and neglected to appoint an official WRR-poster-upper in my absence. To make sure you get the shows in a timely fashion, you really should subscribe anyway.
Db is still in Canada so nothing can stop Gabe and Todd from discussing more JCW topics including the R56 JCW Stage 1. Todd has an R56 JCW car for review and he gives first impressions. Gabe talks of driving the R56 JCW and highly modded R53 back to back.
We aren’t working this week with it being Thanksgiving and all. But don’t worry, I’ll have something in the feed for you next week.
Woofcast #203 [audio:http://www.whiteroofradio.com/podcasts/woof203.mp3]
I found the comments re: turbo lag interesting. I recently test drove and ordered an R56 Cooper S, and noticed what seemed to be turbo lag. I’ve never owned a turbo before, and my previous car was a Renault Clio Sport. I found this podcast interesting, because until now I’ve only heard reviews that say “there is no lag” and I for sure felt something that felt like lag. Hit the throttle, and a fraction of a second later the car would respond. At the time I put it down to the demo car not having the Sport button…or just being a shoddy example. I look forward to receiving my car in a few weeks to compare!
I don’t sense any lag in mine, however there is a distinct difference between the early boost and the balls out-holy mutha f–ker boost that comes on higher in the rpms.
>balls out-holy mutha f–ker boost
I smell a t-shirt.
I had a Clubman S for a day last week, Now I wouldn’t say it lagged like some of the Turbo diesels I have driven, I just found harder you pressed the loud peddle the crazier it got! extremely rapid, its one of the quickest things I have driven! 2nd gear punch just comes out of nowhere, a proper kick in the nuts to the tailgater behind you! 😉
Next MINI is an S for me, better start saving those pennys!
As a former 2x Works R53 owner (both w/ additional engine, suspension & brake mods) I find my R56 Works car to be faster, seamless and utterly engaging compared to the supercharged brothers it replaced.
It requires that one drive the hell of it & get it out in the boonies where the ample power potential can be explored. All in all the R56 stage1 kit is well worth the investment but I can see how less than track driving experiences could leave the impression that the kit is too subtle.
I do wish the exhaust had a bit more guts but w/ the rear seats folded down it’s ample .
There is a massive hole in power and torque around 2800-3500 rpm in the stock S. Clearly evident on stock dynos… exaggerated on some of the modded (intake/exhaust ONLY) dynos, too (as the stock ECU tries to chop the boost pressure in that anti-fun zone).
I’m guessing this has somthing to do with the ECU leaning out the engine in that zone so that when the car is tested and MOT’d it will show better fuel economy and emissions. That’s just a guess, though. It feels somewhat like old-school lag… but since the turbo is up to full speed at 1700 RPM, ITS NOT… this dip also disappears with the JCW ECU flash (in my experience, at least) and the torque and bhp curves becomes smooth as can be.
Todd? Well, Todd’s in love with HIS car. I can appreciate that. If the GP had a back seat and would have allowed me to spec a sunroof… I might own one myself. They are terribly cool and fun cars.
<blockquote>I can appreciate that. If the GP had a back seat and would have allowed me to spec a sunroof… I might own one myself.</blockquote>
I thought the whole point of the GP was to make it light and fast. Add a sunroof and back seats and you’re just watering down the concept!
So I finally listened to this podcast. In a word… huh. I still don’t see where Todd is coming from with some of his comments – specifically the throttle response. I know he’s softened his stance dramatically (according to him) but I’m very interested to see what exactly has changed as a lot of his comments in this episode left me scratching my head… and still do.
nothin a little drive down to Kansas wouldn’t fix..
<blockquote>So I finally listened to this podcast. In a word… huh.</blockquote>
When I test drove the R56 Cooper S there was a noticeable pause between pressing the accelerator and getting a response from the engine. As I said above, I put this down to the demo car being a not-so-great example, as I’ve read nothing about this on the net etc while doing my research. This is why this podcast interested me so much, as Todd’s experience was identical to mine.
I’ll be interested to see what my R56 is like when it arrives in a few weeks.
PS: thanks for a great site Gabe…your excellent writing style, hot design talent and obvious love for the MINI combine to great effect. Checking out Motoringfile is one of the pleasures of my day!
>When I test drove the R56 Cooper S there was a noticeable pause between pressing the accelerator and getting a response from the engine. As I said above, I put this down to the demo car being a not-so-great example, as I’ve read nothing about this on the net etc while doing my research. This is why this podcast interested me so much, as Todd’s experience was identical to mine.
Dylan – Have you driven an R53? Do you feel there’s a slower throttle response? Just curious as that’s the comparison here. Again the R53 has a lot going for it but with the supercharger winding up and the fairly heavy flywheel (the R56’s is lighter and the engine doesn’t have the supercharger to contend with) it’s not merely a <em>feel</em> thing. It simply isn’t technically as quick in regards to throttle response. Doesn’t make it a bad car – the reality is that it’s far from that. However this is just one of the well-known downsides to the drive-train that people have been complaining about for years.
<blockquote>Dylan – Have you driven an R53? Do you feel there’s a slower throttle response?</blockquote>
I test drove a 2006 R53 immediately before I test drove the R56, and felt the throttle response to be much more instant, with very little lag. I realise this goes against what you’ve reported should be the case, so once again I’m inclined to believe there was something wrong with the R56 that I drove and I bow to your superior knowledge in these matters!
“I thought the whole point of the GP was to make it light and fast. Add a sunroof and back seats and you’re just watering down the concept!”
Maybe. Maybe not.
Loose the Euroe-spec undertray and you’ve got the sunroof right there… and MINI back seats weigh very little. So I doudbt you’d be adding enough weight to make a real performance difference.
It would also have made the car much more livable (and therefore desirable) to a larger number of people.
Don’t think that something there were worried about though msh441. The GP sold out quickly and did exactly what Mini wanted, to make it rare enough to make it stand out.