MINI Clubman: Taking the Long View
This time from Topgear.com. It’s hard to tell if they really hate the Clubman, or maybe don’t mind it so much.
>No, I’m talking about inventions. The Mini Clubman shows why it’s a poor idea to uninvent the hatchback. Instead of a top-hinged tailgate, you get two doors that open like they used to on the original Mini Traveller. Or, if you’re less than about 40 years old, like they do on a white van.
>Because the law says you have to be able to see the rear lights from behind even when a car’s boot is open, the Clubman has its lights fixed to the car, poking through an aperture in each door. Which seems a cute idea in theory. In practice it isn’t.
They go on to point out something that nobody else has, really. Rear visability. And by nobody I mean every reviewer on earth.
>Drive it and a vertical black bar, thick enough to swallow a motorbike, barges through the middle of the rear-view mirror. And when there are two people in the back, as the Clubman’s extended wheelbase allows, you can’t even peer around the side of it.
Of course they go on, and on, about the Club door being on the wrong side for the UK and others.
Then we get to the ‘maybe-they-like-it’ parts.
>It is a good-looking car. Genuinely unusual and intriguing, especially as it’s different from side to side – on the left the rear side glass is uninterrupted. But even without the Clubdoor or the rear van doors this would be a handsome thing, very different from your usual hatch.
Great review. Not as scathing as Mr. Clarkson’s, but they definitely don’t pull any punches.
[ Taking the long view ] Topgear.com
What’s the over/under on MINI selling every Clubman they can make?
You might be interested to know the Clubman has just been named ‘Small Car of the Year’ in the new issue of Top Gear magazine (Awards 2007).
Fixated a bit, are we?
Gabe.. what happened t your pleasant blog format.. seems like you’ve changed templates and made this page almost as unpleasant looking as the Clubman! 🙂
Ok.. looks like you fixed it.. scared me for a minute. 🙂
I commented on this elsewhere, but I’ll reiterate – the visibility issue needs to be addressed by BMW, and I hope they do with the SAV if they don’t with the Clubman.
My suggestion is to make the rear window one solid piece that hinges upwards, with the two doors below it opening outward as they do now. The GMC Safari van gives an example of this in their “Dutch Door Option.” Of course, being a GMC Safari, it is heavy and clunky, but you can get some idea of what I’m suggesting.
Another issue reported by both Jeremy Clarkson and Bimmer Magazine is that of borderline “dangerous” torque steer. I haven’t driven a Clubman so I don’t know for myself if this is a problem. But the Bimmer review had some technical explanation for why the torque steer was much more of a problem in the Clubman even though it wasn’t much of one in the Cooper S coupe. If you are interested in ordering a Clubman before you drive it, I recommend checking out both reviews.
<blockquote>They go on to point out something that nobody else has, really. Rear visability. And by nobody I mean every reviewer on earth.</blockquote>Really? Most reviews I’ve seen mention it — both in the press and informal reviews in the forums. Just for starters look at the Clubman review in Winding Road.
that was sarcasm by gabe
>that was sarcasm by gabe
That’s DB’s sarcasm since he wrote this post. The name of the writer is at the bottom of each article.
I would have to say this is a fair review, they pointed out real issues and what they liked. Think Mr. Clarkson is just caught up on the fact that the suicide door is anti RHD markets more that anything else. Still I can understand the concerns out of the back of the car with the wide center bar. Then again have yet to see many reviewers rip any number of cars for the lack of a rear view. Still waiting for a reviewer to call any number of Ferarri’s, Lamborghini’s, McClaren’s, Lotus etc etc etc because of their rear view. Heck I have owned more that one car with next to no rear view that were a whole lot less exotic lol.
Jon,
If MINI can be seen as a sporting marque, ultimately it’s a practical, compact, fun to drive car. The “problem” being that as a “hot hatch”, the MINI is still that practical small car. Clarkson is dead right when he calls out MINI for creating a car with compromised exterior vision. I can also see his point re: the suicide door.
The majority of the market for the Clubman appears to be outside the right hand drive markets of the UK, Japan, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. (Did I miss any of the larger RHD markets?) The combined market size of the EU, US & Canada is arguably twice the size of the RHD market.
If I remember correctly, Clubman is estimated to top out at 20% of MINI production. RHD markets are approximately 25% of the world market. Do the math, RHD Clubman production would be about 5% of total MINI production in Oxford. From BMW/MINI’s perspective, where’s the financial gain in that production model? They’d end up having to charge even more of premium for the Clubman, which would reduce demand in the UK–making an RHD Clubman even more of losing proposition. Clarkson needs to get over himself.
<blockquote>That’s DB’s sarcasm since he wrote this post. The name of the writer is at the bottom of each article.</blockquote> I was able to tell that DB wrote this article pretty much based on that one quote. That kind of facetiousness seems like a DB thing.
I seem to remember another car that was introduced a few years ago with a line down the middle of the rear, hampering visibility. Can’t recall side visibility being that good there, either!
I once had a chance to purchase a 1963 Corvette Sting Ray Split Window Coupe for a decent price. Now I couldn’t afford it!
Maybe the first Clubman will go on to classic status? Guess you never know…
I actually really enjoy Clarkson’s view, he is unabashed open with his point of view and part of his personality is to be a bit over the top. All in all its part of what makes his written columns fun to read and shows to watch.
Still what I was saying is when was the last time that you saw any numbers of reviewers tear down a car because of a lack of rear view. Just was saying if this were the case many high end manufacturers create trash. Yes being able to see out the back of my R53 is one of the reasons I love it. Having said that maybe this is just Mini’s way of selling more rear distance sensors heh. Reviewers may like it or not but the base fact is Mini is seeing these cars scooped up in the UK right now.
Jon,
I have repeatedly stated here, GBMIN and my blog TwistyBlitz.com that you can’t see out of the back! I stated this when I had never seen one in person and then after I sat in one at the LA Auto Show. It’s bazar to me that BMW/MINI would send out a “Performance” car, which it seems they claim this is, with almost NO rear sight lines.
The Dutch door idea is interesting but why not just use the hatch that was already built and works splendidly?
Clarkson is the best! When he and his cronies visited the USA southern states it was so hilarious I nearly wet my pants. Having spent time in Louisiana’s Fort Polk, I surprised they are still alive.
The R52 cabrios have terrible rearward visibility… In fact much worse than the Clubman with the top up. The cabrios have HUGE c-pillar blind spots and the rear window is nearly useless.
It seems to me the Clubman haters are making a huge mountain out of a molehill re: rear visibility.
Here is a pic of the Clubman rearview mirror reflection of the rear window pillar:
<a href="http://www.mini2.com/images/mini2/2007/09/img_2910.thumbnail.jpg" rel="nofollow">link</a>
Rear visibility is clearly affected by the door seams but the picture above shows the headrests at a high level rather than being fully in the down position. Put the rear headrests all the way up in your R53/R56 and I’m sure your vision will be partially obscured, too. I’ll withhold judgment until I can personally sit in a Clubman and drive one. That said, at this time I wonder why they didn’t go with a traditional hatch.
Don’t hate the Clubman just feel it could have been better.
I drive both of my MINIs with the rear headrests in the upmost position. They partially block view out of the back window. If you want to experience the”Clubman”rear visibility, then all you have to do is put thick tape right in the middle of the rear glass to simulate the center post of the Clubman’s barn doors.
I am sorry, but all this criticism of the rear barn doors seems like a desperate attempt by the automotive press to find hard fault with the design of this car. In other words… “Much ado about nothing”.
There have been vehicles designed with rear barn doors (Suburbans, vans, small estates, etc) throught the decades and so far none of the have been banned or been found to cause accidents due to the center post.
Learn to use the mirrors when backing out of a parking space..big deal… Many other cars in the market have terrible rear visibility and yet no one is complaining.
Granted, there are design snafus with the Clubman, but nothing to make the car the piece of garbage some of these news outlets are so eagerly to shove down our throats. Yes Jezza, Top Gear, et al…we get it. How many more times are you going to harp on the barn doors, the club door and the tiny boot?
When the car is launched in February, go to your nearest MINI dealer and check it out for yourself. Think for yourself!
Jimskater, the cabrios were designed with terrible rearward vision, then no one complained or seemed to harp on it in the manner the automotive press is doing it with the Clubman.
Go and drive a cabrio with the top up and come back and tell me how good it really is.
Cheers 🙂
So let me throw this out in the open…. If the Clubman had offered Club doors on both sides and a rear hatch, then the car would have been better embraced by the press and skeptics alike?
For Mr. Clarkson, and others who may not remember this tidbit from Motoring File a while back…
<a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/2007/08/17/clubmans-door-may-turn-off-buyers/#more-6045" rel="ugc">https://www.motoringfile.com/2007/08/17/clubmans-door-may-turn-off-buyers/#more-6045</a>
The door is on the side it is due to engineering costs. It had nothing to do with markets….
… per MINI UK.
I somehow doubt anyone’s purchasing decision of a Clubman will be based on rear visibility … this argument is plain silly.
It’s a stupid design from the old wagon and should have been dropped like a big pale of dog …!
Now that being said… we all have our reasons for liking or disliking the car but belittling others views does what? I wouldn’t personally buy, it it’s obvious some of you would so have at it!
I think is better to agree to disagree.
Truth be told, no one is holding a gun to your head and make you buy a Clubman. It all depends whether you see the car as a half empty or half full compromise. If you like it and it suits you, its your money and so be it. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it and move on.
Live and let live.
As a long time MINI owner, having owned a Cabrio and still own a hard top, I’d like to just say that when I sold my Cabrio, I bought a 67 Morris Minor Traveller. The Morris has the “barn” doors similar to the new Clubman. It is my daily driver and honestly, the pillar in the rear where the doors meet (all wood) has never been an issue for visibility. I had a harder time seeing out of the rear in my Cabrio.
I’ve seen and sat in the Clubman. Personally I don’t see a problem. If you have your mirrors set properly in any car, that’s the key.
Frank? Live and let live? Fine advice coming from the schmuck who went on and on for months with his criticism of the R56.
I love the clubman and could give a hoot what the journalists think about the rear mirror view and rear door.
But you who cited the crtis in the magazine reviews as gods word about everything wrong with the R56, you have the nerve to come here and post this dribble in defense of the clubman. Its clear what’s going on – R56 usurps your beloved R53, you whine like a freaking crybaby. Now you are ordering a clubman and here you are asking for everybody to stop criticizing your new car. Why don’t you take your own advice and move on.
I believe this would be a good place to let this one rest. Or, I could turn off comments for this post altogether. Your choice (and, only warning).
Lavardera, if I were you I would tread very lightly. Don’t be an internet “tough boy”.
Comments have been re-opened.
If you make it all the way to the 3rd page of the review, you’ll see they sum it perfectly: “This is still what it always was: the most fun you can have in a car of its size. And the most individual, customisable and expensive small car.”
C4,
If you reread my post, you’ll note that I was particularly addressing the suicide door issue, from an economic perspective. I do agree with Clarkson on the poor exterior vision — but it’s not keeping me from wanting a clubman, anyway.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch. I’m having a lot of trouble keeping the spec of the Clubman below $40K. There’s too much good stuff to add on. If only I didn’t think the JCW kit is a necessity. 😛