MF Analysis: Factory JCW MINI
As with any high-performance MINI, the initial release of information on the new John Cooper Works car has been met with plenty of mixed opinion within the MINI community. While MINI has gotten quite a few things right with this new car (the engine modifications, the brakes and the wheels are hard to argue with), there remains some notable and consistent complaints from quite a few MINI owners. The most prominent seems to center around not making two JCW accessories standard on the car: the JCW suspension and the JCW aero-kit. The thinking is this; why create a totally separate model if you’re not going to make it look really different? And secondly why create a thoroughly reworked car with an upgraded engine and braking system without touching the suspension?
It’s a valid argument and one that makes sense when you look BMW’s M division and its products. But the argument MINI seems to be making is that the JCW MINI is still a MINI and in turn a blank canvas for owners to express themselves. That means owners can choose their own suspension and choose whether or not they want to lose some subtle with the JCW aero-kit.
I understand the idea behind not making the JCW Aero-kit standard on this car, but I don’t like it. This new JCW car needs to be special. It needs to look special and it needs to have almost a mystic quality about it. Sure the wheels are nice and the faux side vents look unique, but it’s just not enough.
Furthermore, the new JCW kit needs a suspension equal to it’s new found power. The UK press release on the new MINI JCW does mention a specially tuned “Sport Suspension” standard on the car. However there’s no word on if this is just some lip-service to either the standard suspension or the optional sport suspension that have been available on the R56 since launch. Even if it’s the latter, I still believe it’s a mistake to not offer the JCW suspension as standard on this car. Yes the JCW suspension isn’t as easy to live with as the stock set-up. But a car like the JCW MINI needs to demand a certain level of commitment and in turn respect from potential owners.
Undoubtedly both of these additions would add some cost to the car. And that’s really the rub here. At over 28k, the JCW MINI is already pricey. But if you add $2k for the options mentioned, you’re talking about a MINI that starts at $30k. Admittedly that’s just too much to ask for a base price of a non-limited edition MINI. My thoughts? If they could add both of these options and sneak the car just under the $30K mark then I think MINI would have themselves a winner and a brand builder for JCW.
All this aside we do believe this car will be a success and should easily be the fastest factory MINI ever created. And since this isn’t going to be marketed as a GP replacement, the blank slate approach seems to suit it rather well.
I agree 100%. One thing to consider is that the aerokit is probably not that much more expensive to manufacture than the standard kit (On the R53, it cost more to by a standard front bumper as a replacement than the aerokit front bumper), and will cost no more to install than a standard kit at the factory.
The suspension is probably a little more expensive, but not much. IMHO, this setup is definitely doable (if done at the factory) for under 30,000.
There are rumors that the JCW is a limited production run–if so, it needs these additions more than ever.
Personally, the new JCW is a bit disappointing–maybe I was expecting too much; something more GP like. I won’t buy this car. I’m going to wait a couple of years and hold out for a GP like variant of the R56, or moving on to a 135i.
Consider this: The ’06 JCW GP was certainly not a “Blank canvas” for owners to express their individuality. It was marketed and sold as the “ultimate” factory MINI…Bertnone body kit, wheels, special paint, rear seat delete, suspension kit and a plethora of other enhacements that made the car totally different (Basically its on model). So why this factory R56 JCW stage II car has to deviate so much from this philosphy? If MINI intends JCW to become the performance division of MINI, then the “Blank canvas” mentallity simply does not apply there. A performance car needs to command respect. The JCW GP did and still commands that respect because the car was made on a fixed configuration and no choices where given in terms of colors or equipment…Take it or leave it deal.
I agree with your commentary. Either the car is or it isn’t. No room for individuality here.
If I understood the press release correct, the color can be choosen, right ?
Certainly a cost factor over a limited model like the GP…
But I still have to ask and maybe MF can chime in:
What we see on the pictures is what one would get for the base price ? Right ? Or not ?
i am really saddened at how hard the ball was dropped here. this car was (for me) my last holdout to getting into the r56 cycle and the lack of suspension and that elusive “special” factor have just left me cold. i’m all for embracing the new, but this car (in all of its iterations) has just been unable to capture my enthusiasm they way the quirky r53 did – and still does.
i’m afraid the mini brand has become a bit diluted and feels more bells and whistles now than its race inspired incarnation and rebirth seven years ago. in fact it’s hard to even feel brand loyalty at this point for me as the r53 and 556 “generations” seem so vastly different in terms of marketing and mini’s overall vibe. there used to be a an ohh and ahh factor when you’d encounter a jcw car, now it just feels like another flavor… there was never any question that a jcw r53 was a sight to behold – a rarified air – and now the jcw brand feels like just that: a brand.
i am sure this car will make many people happy, sadly i won’t be one of them. but i will hold on to my heavily modded oem+ r53 until the day it stops running…. or the day i take delivery of a 135.. ; )
I don’t agree. This is not a GP, which came only one way, with no additions or deletions from the factory – a unique “Special Edition”. This is not a limited production vehicle.
This begs for customers creating their own cars, as they may choose. From bare bones to custom tricked out.
The basic car will be awesome, with all kinds of subtle, hard to see but really incredible engineering enhancements that, once we get to know them in a more intimate situation, I am sure will prove their worth.
Little things like the re-design of the pistons, the new gearbox, the new head, a new head gasket, the e-diff, the cool rims that may not be as light as many enthusiast drivers wish, but for a stock offering, pretty cool I think.
Composite camshafts, baby! with hardened steel lifters. Sodium filled exhaust valves. New air filter, air mass sensor, exhaust system and cat!.
A different, larger and optimised turbo. DTC = controlled limited slip suitable for racing situations.
Think about those items. Meditate on their significance.
Not really “little” enchancements. Just try to go out and buy that stuff. It’s not cheap. It’s down right expensive, hard to source, and a nightmare to get running right if you try to add it all to a regular S and actually get it running right.
This car will be here to stay, and will be a wonderful addition to the MINI line-up. Plus, it will probably give the GP a run for the money, in a straight line or on the track. Too bad it won’t catch me and my GP!
Just like all the doubters upon initial introduction of the GP and it’s specs, I believe this car will become a star of the MINI family and win over our hearts and souls once we get to live with it!
Peter
Drew, I think your assesment is spot on. MINI should take a deep breath and step back for a minute to reflect on their past successes and see what has brought them here.
My feeling is that they believe the brand is so successful that no one will ever question the product decisions coming out of Oxford and Munich, but now they are finding out, that the MINI customer is clever, knows what he wants and can spot a good deal from a not so good one.
Call it arrogance, call it whatever, it is a dangerous trap to fall into.
My belief is that BMW needs to stop their eternal quest to put a MINI on every driveway (Same goes for BMW products) and to transform the MINI into a FWD BMW “Lite”.
Let MINI be MINI. That was the basic recipe of success from the beginning.
Is the JCW suspension even anything that would be more expensive for MINI to install? Certainly, stiffer springs and bars are less than $100 more steel. Only other difference is the shocks and I don’t read them as being Koni’s or anything more than similar to the normal shocks with different valving.
Same for the body kit really. It’s just different. Maybe a bit more work envolved to mold, paint and fit.
So what they should do is include both of these for well less than $30k. Give a no cost option to delete them if they want to allow you to “personalize” the car. That will give them a reputation builder.
Agree with the comment that the pricing schedule just doesn’t cut it. I am having a hard time paying 35K for this JCW2 when I can get so much more performance for 37K in the 135i.
I really which that I could get my hands on what I would actually get for the added $ compared to the JCW1 that the dealers install
Is it the same turbo?
Is the tranny really different and how?
How different are the heads?
What is the base suspension?
There are simply too many ??? to judge at this time. Fortunately, the dealer that I placed the pre-order on the JCW2 will allow me to roll it over towards a 135i.
I totally agree with this. MINI already has a build your own JCW option.
Make this one something to aspire to. Like the GP and M cars, this should be the Ultimate MINI.
Peter, I do not think anyone disagrees on that the factory JCW R56 car has a generous list of equipment. But the car is still “half baked”. When you purchase a BMW M vehicle the car already has the required hardware in place, limited color/equipment choices. An M3 is a vastly different animal from a 328 or 335.
If MINI wants JCW to be the M perfomance division equivalent, then the car either brings ALL the goods to the table or it doesn’t. Simple, really.
Mercedes Benz understands this with thier AMG cars and even GM’s Cadillac understands this philosophy with their V cars.
I agree. If you don’t like the standard JCW suspension or body kit, then give the buyer the option to delete these items.
How hard can this be?
couldnt agree more c4…. sadly.
The JCW should be MINI’s “M” car; unique looking, performance-oriented in every way, (engine, brakes, suspension and body kit). There should be no corners cut, like they were in the areas of suspension and body kit.
Everything about this JCW Factory MINI should clearly tell you, and all others, that this car is unique, special, and fast.
Admittedly, the wheels are awesome, IMHO…
as far as i’m concerned the GP just went up in a value… a lot.
congrats todd ; )
Who ever said MINI wanted the JCW MINI to be an M car equivalent. It’s not a BMW M. It’s a MINI. Build it the way you want it.
I’ve had 3 M cars, and still have an 01 M Coupe. A marvelous car.
If you don’t expect the JCW to be the “M car equivalent”, then you won’t be disappointed.
MINI is leaving it up to the customer to create their personal variation on a theme. Make it how you want it, or not.
But, in either case, the whining is annoying me. You don’t like it – fine. Get an M3. but , please don’t whine. It’s not becoming.
nobody’s whining – just expressing our opinions.
peace out.
I personally agree with a great amount of what has been said so far by you guys.
The main issue I have is that I believe this is nothing other than a half measure by Mini. Imagine the feedback if the new M came without a suspension or a unique look. The list of performance cars that look exactly like the rest of the brand is exceptionally rare. Rather surprised that this got the nod from BMW as they have seen a lot of success with the M division and should be aware of the keys to success from the sub-brand.
This car needs to have a unique aero kit or color something that helps differentiate it from well equipped Cooper S and Dealer JCW kits.
Very sad since this car has been the only thing keeping me focused on the Mini brand lately. A group that I have massive respect for has more or less taken a very errant path. Combine this with bringing a SUV into the brand and I begin to think that Mini/BMW needs to be wake up and address this for their community. Would love it Gabe if you could get somebody at Mini to address a few of the questions from the community about this development.
The gist of the arguments that I’m seeing here is that folks are upset that MINI is allowing them to pick and choose what options they want. Doesn’t this go against MINI’s “past success” and what has differentiated them from the other car corporations who decide what’s best for the user and lump it into a single “equipment package”?
Personally, I’ve very impressed with MINI for offering a selection of real performance parts instead of just stickers and badges. I have no need to impress others with the performance package I’ve chosen, and prefer that it be somewhat stealthy. Who knows, maybe all my unused JCW badges will be worth something one day. 🙂
Go back and read pbraun’s excellent reply above. Peter understands.
John
Let’s just say…I’ll be taking delivery of my 135i on March 26th at the PDC. At least the money still goes in BMWs pocket.
I (we) are driving a Cooper ‘vert with Aerokit.
If that says anything, then that we went for looks rather than performance.
I’m in the market for an additional MINI, for sure a Cooper S.
Getting this car now with additional woomp… great !
All I wanted from MINI is clarification on what is included in the baseprice and what not. And of course the pictures issued with the press release to either reflecting the basemodel or having a caption saying ‘shown with additional xxx’.
I don’t need to have the Aerokit, IF the base looks great already.
Pbraun, nobody is “whining”, merely expressing disappointment. I respect your opinion, but apparently mutual respect isn’t forthcoming…
BMW had the opportunity to hit a home run, and instead hit a double. With the acquistition of JCW, we were expecting a bit more. Is it unrealistic to expect an M type of car, given the JCW heritage? INMHO, no–if you’re going to badge it JCW, make it special, not just another model in the lineup.
I too was waiting for this car eagerly, and wanted to love it. But it looks like BMW is going more mainstream with the R56 JCW, essentially keeping it in the mold of a daily driver with a bit more power, while many of us were hoping for more of the unrefined obnoxious little brother the R53 represents. I’m sure it will sell well, but its not what many of us were hoping for.
If the intention was to provide for a “blank canvas” for buyers to add to, then don’t show the Aerokit on EVERY picture for the factory JCW. By having the Aerokit on all photos and then stating that it is not part of the factory package, MINI set themselves up to get negative comments. It toes the line of questionably false advertising.
I agree about the suspension, and I would agree about the body kit if I didn’t think the current JCW kit was ugly.
It sounds like these folks want their JCW GP R56 now, but that’s not this car. Maybe that will come later, but remember there was 4-5 years of production under their belt before the GP arrived. And one of the reasons it sat on top was it drew from the future parts bin of the R56. You can’t reasonable expect the same thing until the R56 replacement is brewing – a last go at the ultimate R56 is a few years off.
Otherwise, man, spare me all the woes about keeping my R53 forever and getting your 135 – sheesh. The sooner the better, and good riddance!
Thank you Pipe ! I started to think I’m the only one rubbed the wrong way with this.
Limited production cars, such as the GP, traditionally are offered at the end of a model cycle. It’s easier to move inventory by creating a halo car than it is to get savvy would-be buyers to buy the out going model.
As far as the ‘buzz’ that has all but faded away, it is, in large part due to the change in ad agencies and the fact that you’re only the new, must have car for just so long.
Having said that, I have to agree with the majority here that the factory JCW needs to be unique in appearance and it has to include the JCW suspension. If not, perhaps Mini should ad a factory ‘sound kit’ option for the Cooper.
I’m not sure what the big deal is here. Order what you want, don’t order what you don’t want. MINI is in the business of making money. Period. The more open they are to optioning certain things, the more cars they are going to sell.
If they made it mandatory to get the suspension and the aerokit with the car the price would go up significantly and they would sell less cars.
And yes I know the aero kit probably costs MINI about the same but it’s not always about hard costs. The name of the game is implied value. Same goes for the anthracite headliner. It’s just a different color, but it looks cool to some and those who like it will pay for it.
The thing that makes no sense is why MINI made so much effort to make the Cooper and the Cooper S look different (Fake Hood Scoop, Center Exhaust, Grill, etc.), and made such a weak effort to make the Cooper S and the JCW look different. Isn’t the JCW supposed to be a different “model”?
All I know is that every time I see a factory JCW car, my reaction will be, “Hey, there is a Cooper S with the JCW body kit.” The GP has such a strong presence when you see it in person. The factory JCW car needs some of that.
This makes the JCW Dealer engine Kit look pretty good and a much better deal. I can’t see paying that much more money for a little extra power and some completely unnecessary big brakes.
Mike, the big deal is there was an opportunity to fill a gap–a more performance biased MINI–and it was missed. You want to option out? Fine–that’s what the Stage I JCW should be for. Make the Stage II something more “ultimate”.
Where you are wrong is the price of the aerokit/suspension. It would add very little to the cost of the car, if done at the factory. As this is going down the road to flames, I think I’ll sit the rest of this one out.
“Pbraun, nobody is “whining”, merely expressing disappointment. I respect your opinion, but apparently mutual respect isn’t forthcoming…”
dood – it sure sounds like a whine to me!
Repetition of a complaint, or disappointment, comes across as a whine to me. Just because I say that doesn’t mean I am being disrespectful.
If you want the looks of an aerokit, get it. I did on my 02.
I agree it’s too bad the JCW doesn’t come with the aerokit, as pictured. But, so be it, now we move on….
Best regards,
I agree with most of what was said above.
For this car being setup and advertised as essentially the street legal version of the Challenge car, or at least a more complete performance oriented car, leaving out the JCW aero kit and JCW suspension doesn’t make sense … at all. (I also think they should include the JCW steering wheel too, but maybe that’s just me).
For those that still want the customization factor then simple, have an option for the vanilla suspension and aero kit, it’s not like they don’t have them at the factory already. If you want it to be even more “sleeper” include a no/standard badge option.
A JCW model IS a flagship model and in my opinion this new model is way under-specced. Imagine the reaction if BMW charged potential M3 owners for the body kit or suspension. They wouldn’t sell it. However my arguement doesn’t stop here, why charge a premium price for something which, other than perfomance, has no special features over a ‘lower’ model?
I totally agree that MINI should have included the body kit and suspension as standard and made them no cost options to delete. BMW’s true colours are now apparent to all. Don’t believe that blank canvas rubbish!!
lavardera – i appreciate your constructive and adult comments directed to me wishing me good riddance – but if you want to insult me perhaps you could just private message me by clicking on my name and sparing everyone here the rants of a child…
Sooooo, now that we have all had our collective whining session, isn’t this car present at the Geneva auto show?
MF, any picts?
You want pics? Go to miniusa.com and build an R56 with JCW aerokit.
Why, oh why, all of these discussions have to end up in personal attacks?
Pics from Geneva, eager2own. Do you know where that is? Probably not.
Geneva, yep, been there (for the millenium celebration, actually). Guess you missed the sarcasm — my point is just, that except for the tires, the JCW will look like an R56 dressed like one . . . so, if you build one on miniusa.com with an aerokit, you can see what it looks like.
And actually, if you go to miniusa.com and pick an R56, you don’t even have to put a bodykit on it to see what the JCW will really look like without the additional option.
sorry drew – I like my discussions to be visceral…
Like the R53!
I will be purchasing a performance Mini within the next year. So I feel like I am their “target market” for this car. Here are my thoughts.
The R56 would be $22K. The JCW Factory is $29K. So we have a $7K difference. The rims and tires are probably $3K. Let’s argue that the upgrade is really no more costly than the dealer package installed. That’s $2.5K. Let’s say the big brakes are the same price as they are for the JCW brakes installed at the dealer. That’s $1.5K. That means that you are paying $0K for a stronger clutch, better engine internals, and 15HP that are under Mini warranty.
Who here is really against Mini giving away an upgraded engine, upgraded transmission for free if you are willing to buy big brakes and rims?
If you want an aero kit you can have one. But for those of us who really only care about it’s quickness, this isn’t a requirement. The only thing I have against this car is that they chose brakes over suspension. But I can live with that.
lol c4… and no worries lavardera…everybody just play nice!
lol c4… and no worries lavardera…everybody just play nice!
Still hoping that Mini/BMW has the nerve to interview with Motoringfile about the questions/feedback a large number of people have had about this car so far. I think that it would be a very interesting read to see how Min/BMW sees their communities feedback.
I have enough concerns about this car and the R60 that I am planning a trip to MTTS ’08 just to see if I can ask a few questions to some people from MiniUSA.
Just to clarify a few things:
– I think the current pricing of this car (as it stands) is spot on. When you actually think about what has been upgraded on this car, the price increase seems entirely justifiable.
– I also think the blank canvass approach is the right one. However I think a JCW blank canvass needs to be a little different from a standard MCS blank canvass.
Agreement on both Gabe.
The price has never been a worry outright to me. I don’t have a problem with the blank canvass, I however do have an issue with no way to make this car look like its anything special. Still believe that not addressing the suspension (unless there are legs on the news about UK release info, seems very odd to offer a performance car without a upgraded suspension.
Maybe I haven’t read the press releases correctly, but the differences seem too vague.
How different is the turbo? What makes it different?
What exactly was done to the transmission to make it better and how?
What does “tuned” suspension mean?
I agree with the price, frankly. Although not necessarily with analysis that assumes that JCW wheels cost MINI $3k more than the regular 17″ OEMs or that the JCW brakes costs them $1.5k more than installing non-JCW . . .
While a blank canvas approach is great for JCW stage 1, I agree with those that were hoping for something more unique here. Problem is that the aerokit may not be the right focus — afterall, it won’t be distinctive with or without it so long as it’s also available a la carte for the other R56s.
To piggy-back on everyone’s analogy, that would be like the M3 coming out with a body kit that was already being offered on the 335.
Isn’t this simply an R56 version of the 1st gen factory JCW? Just like the 1st gen, you get:
Modest increase in power at a relatively high price
Upgraded brakes
* NO suspension upgrade or body kit
The only real difference is the new wheels. So it is deja-vu all over again, and I think it is exactly what BMW intended: an R56 version of the previous factory kit.
There is a lot of disappointment here but maybe the only problem was that it had been hyped up too much and set everybody’s expectations too high.
Hey Volker! Go to autotrader.com to see your new JCW (3x JCW). It’s the only JCW there. Just as you described.
BTW, everyone forgets to add destination charge to a “stripped” stage 2 JCW. $29,200 with not a thing added. With moderate options you’ll go ver $40k. I can see where all the 1 series comments are coming from.
Oh, and will everyone please stop saying “spot on”.
spot on greg.
Sorry, that was just too hard to resist.
I do wholeheartedly agree that the hype got us hoping for more than what showed up. As for comparing the R56 JCW to the R53 JCW, its kind of apples to oranges–since in the interim, BMW bought the JCW name, many of us were hoping for a bit more for the stage II, given the resources at BMW’s disposal.
I would be willing to pay a little more for a fully decked out JCW that was a bit more performance oriented. Maybe there will be something down the road, toward the end of the R56 lifecycle.
It seems ambiguous whether or not the suspension is the stock, sport, or somewhere between the sport and the JCW. Lets say for arguments sake that this is better than everybody fears and its a tuned version of the Sort suspension, not a edgy as the full JCW, but something you can’t get out of the factory on a normal R56.
That leaves the body kit. I’d argue that you have some level of body kit here in that the JCW badging (absence of S) is something you can’t get on any other Mini out of the factory. Perhaps too subtle, but short of a new kit that has real brake vents up front and air extracting vents out back then I don’t see the appeal of the current kit under 130mph.
Something that has never been discussed relative to the factory JCW – does it have that undercarriage aero panel that we have heard the european cars have?
I might be in the minority, but I like stealthy, fast cars that don’t shout “give me a ticket”
Excellent Analysis Gabe! Agree 100%
I think what many people were expecting is not quite a GP, but certainly a “complete package factory special” JCW, which we had here in Canada in 2006 as the (admittedly limited commerative run of 64 cars) R53 S JCW Competition Package.
This was one notch down from the GP but did include ALL the performance upgrades as a “complete package” (full 208hp JCW engine kit, JCW brake kit, JCW suspension) + a healthy dose of exterior and interior JCW appointments (JCW aero kit, JCW wheels, JCW alcantara steering wheel, JCW shifter+boot, JCW handbrake+boot, JCW door sills, etc.) — all installed at Oxford and painted in one of only 3 possible colours.
Less choice, yes, but adding in the fact that each car got a serialized number on its tachometer face, this made for a car that was unmistakably a “factory special”, thereby delivering the goods on MINI’s advertising promise of ‘something more / something special’. More importantly, it performs as a “complete package”, with JCW power matched to JCW suspension matched to JCW brakes matched to JCW aerodynamics, etc.
From this perspective, I think some of the calls for MINI including the suspension and aero kit with the R56 JCW factory built car are quite understandable.
I reserved an order spot-refundable $1000 deposit, as details were and are not fully known yet. Anybody want to buy my spot—-on.
Couldn’t resist either
The MA & I roughly priced with metallic paint, leather,CWP, CP( no sunfroof), LSD, Auto AC, Sound Sys.,Aero Kit,Sport Stripes,JCW Susp., and a couple of Carbon Fiber pieces=$38,750 plus sales tax $2325 (high tax state) for a total $41,075 plus dealer paper work, etc. More than likely will keep Stage I with aero kit as they look and will almost perform pretty much the same.
>The MA & I roughly priced with metallic paint, leather,CWP, CP( no sunfroof), LSD, Auto AC, Sound Sys.,Aero Kit,Sport Stripes,JCW Susp., and a couple of Carbon Fiber pieces=$38,750 plus sales tax $2325 (high tax state) for a total $41,075 plus dealer paper work, etc. More than likely will keep Stage I with aero kit as they look and will almost perform pretty much the same.
I have to admit I feel pretty good about my car right now. All the JCW packages plus aero-kit, nav and lounge leather for way under that price. I was actually toying with selling it recently (new addition to the family on the way has us thinking of making some changes) and feel really good about what a potential selling price vs what I paid and what this new JCW will cost.
Gabe, changes!?
You’re not going to have that much more room in the 135.
Nah, he’s gonna buy a clubman…:)
News on the new colour(s) tomorrow? 😉
Congrats on the “addition” Gabe!!! 😉
Curious of what you will end up getting. You guys do have the 3 wagon still, don’t you?
I see Gabe, Tracy and Little Gabe (Or little Tracy) riding happily aboard a factory JCW Clubman.
I’m glad the aerokit is a separate option, but I think the JCW Suspension should have been included. The difference in cost is trivial (probably less than $40). Any MINI has springs, shocks, and swaybars. The JCW suspension components don’t cost significantly more to manufacture. I have an 05 MCS/JCW that I bought new. Last year, I added the JCW Suspension and JCW Brakes. I did the work myself, so I feel like I made some great bang for the buck mods.
Rawhyde
Perfect scenario
29000 JCW with suspension
28000 JCW delete suspension
The things on the side the ride height and the exhaust and emblems are enough to distinguish it. The body kit is not that great and would put the price over 30K which I think is the breaking point.
It seems Mini almost got it right/ So close but yet so far away
Just in case BMW/Mini is keeping score, the JCW is what I was waiting/hoping for. I wouldn’t even consider it with the body kit or above the $30k price point.
If I started with an R56 MCS, the anthracite headliner, dash trim, and a set of nicer wheels are the only appearance changes I would have made anyway.
I’m all about maximum performance for minimum price…bells, whistles, and bling optional for those who want it.
I like the blank slate idea better. I would rather have the performance options without the glamour options. The go without the show.
So, give me the more powerful engine, the better brakes, the improved suspension, and improved traction, but leave off the aero kit and JCW wheels. I’d rather go aftermarket for lighter wheels. Forget the carbon everything for the interior and exterior.
JOHO
the side markers in that little movie look different than than the JCW markers seen on Gabes car. They have some kind of chrome trim over them. Whats the deal with that?
…i just have to say ‘moderate options’ does not equal $10k…
…$10k = shitload of options…
…shitload of options = not mini’s fault…
…oh, and dap to bilbo, less is more…
I have been waiting for this car for 3 years. Or at least, I thought I was. The volume and consistency of the whining, I mean comments, should tell MINI that they missed the mark. Well, I am going to add my whiney voice to the chorus. Whether MINI listens is another matter. I believe they know what this market wants and that’s what they show us with EVERY photo of the JCW R56. And the “blank canvas” argument doesn’t wash either. If MINI is going to let me pick my parts, don’t make me take 21 pound 17 inch wheels.
I really don’t want to complain about this. I’d much rather be running down to the local MINImart and putting down my deposit for the first one of these bad boys to hit the showroom. Instead, I’m sitting here wondering what the hell MINI is thinking. This community really wanted to say “WOW!” about this car. Most of this community wants everyone on the street to say “WOW!” when they see this car. At the moment all I am hearing is “HUH!”. And if I were MINI trying to create a JCW brand with a race heritage, I’d be worried about that.
I keep hoping that Mini will announce a real performance car rather than this piecemeal standard Mini. Guess my only hope now is somebody at Mini/BMW/JCW wakes up and realizes what a sizable portion of their community is looking for in ’09.
All it really takes is to see the massive amount of money people have spent worldwide producing a faster/better example out of their Mini’s.
I’m going to change the subject…
Gabe, any word on US availability of these R56 JCW Recaro sport seats WITH AIRBAGS, either as an option or accessory?
<a href="http://www.recaro-oemparts.com/mini/pics/micro_mini_gb.swf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.recaro-oemparts.com/mini/pics/micro_mini_gb.swf</a>
If this hyperlink to the JCW Mini Recaro seat microsite doesn’t work, copy/paste the URL above and put underscores after ‘micro’ and before ‘gb’.
Long story short Alan.
<a href="http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/.eea47c8" rel="nofollow ugc">http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/.eea47c8</a>
According to Andrew Cutler MiniUSA Public Relations director at the Geneva show. Which I had a German friend who was there that confirmed.
“After the press conference, we talked with Andrew Cutler, public relations director for Mini USA”
“The JCW Cooper S hatchback in the booth has Recaro seats, which will be optional in Europe. Unfortunately, Cutler told us the Recaros won’t be offered in the U.S. for cost reasons.”
Cost is a simplified response. The actual answer would be that the passenger seat does not contain a US mandated airbag sensor. When these seats where designed (along with all of the current crop of Recaro’s) this legislation wasn’t inacted. And while it was known to be coming, Recaro decided against engineering the seats with the sensor as a way of cost saving. Unfortunately this means that the US won’t be getting anything like the JCW Recaro’s until Recaro themselves comes out with a new or updated model.
Having another night of sleep over this whole thing I came to the insight that MINI is anything but stupid in their positioning of this car.
I mean, they really can’t lose.
They get a boatload of attention for it, lots of discussion and in the end will sell a car. Either the JCW as is, the JCW with additional stuff or a regular S with add ons.
IMO even with people bringing the 1 series in discussion, the gap is still large enough to keep that issue down.
And if they can count on anything, then the MINI fans… guys like me and my wife, walking into a dealership to order a 23k car and leaving with one for 33k… shooting fish in a barrel.
And you know what, I don’t even complain about it.
It would be really awesome if one day I could sit together with Cooper Jr., get severely hammered and would get an honest answer if this is the car he envisioned for the JCW legacy.
Doesn’t the aerokit need to be installed and painted? They should offer a factory aero kit option for the JCW, that would solve the problem.
I am very aware of the reason Gabe just thought the statement was enlightening in ways. To me what it says is that MiniUSA has thought about offering Recaros here but I think its likely as stated that the cost of making the seats compliant with US law is cost prohibitive.
If I am correct this sensor’s only job is to detect when there is a lighter mass in the seat, ie a car seat versus an adult. If this is the case I can honestly see some automatic sensory equipment that would not be to horrible cost wise to address this.
<blockquote>…known to be coming, Recaro decided against engineering the seats with the sensor as a way of cost saving.</blockquote>
Hmmm…as big as the US market is, it’s hard to believe skipping a common weight sensor was more cost effective, especially after engineering the airbags, seat heaters, etc. specifically for the Mini…
Since it s a drivers car they should offer the Recaro for just the driver’s side. Match the upholstry, there is nothing wrong with the passenger sitting in one of the regular seats.
all this time i thought you guys were supposed to be driving these cars.
if what other people think matters to you so much i doubt that a mini is the car for you.
ya’ll sound like a bunch of 2006jcw superchargers @6000 rpms.
just put the pedal to the floor and if it aint talking to by then i agree that you need to move on.
respect.
Well sandm4130 rather that saying people are whining I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Mini brand is something special to a lot of people.
Holding a strong view isn’t whining, its sharing your honest view with the brand.
Still whats humorous is although I think the Mazda 3 Speed is a ugly beast I think the fact that they have produced a car that will blow past any base Mini for a price point well below that of a entry level Cooper S shows the brand I adore really is still rather lacking a true class leading performance car. Still getting a huge amount of humor from the Geneva info so far of the many writers that are writing about the suspension and aero kit on the R56 demonstrator without realizing the base car is a long ways from what they are seeing.
I personally would like to see Mini produce a car that handles like our Mini’s can with a little suspension work and can actually show stronger acceleration. Think the Factory car is still a ways away from what I am personally looking for, and I rather doubt that Mini will produce a car that will capture my adoration again like the R53 did.
much respect jon
I must agree the base R56 is no beauty queen
but knowing that my tally for a slightly optioned 2006 jcwmcs came to just over 32k and is said to be slower than the current version jcw factory (car my car still has no insatlled jcw suspension or jcw aero kit). I would think that to be able to get the aerokit and the suspension at near the same price of the older more expensive car and given the current economic climate, not really much room for a made to order car company to cut cost.
look at the numbers and the speed is up fuel economy is up cost is down ever so slightly, these are all positives and lately it seems as though we forget the good things that endear this car to us in the first place.
I have had a BMW and it was perfect
I love my mini but I for one will admit it aint perfect in fact it is not even close but that is what gives it character something that few other low priced (term used loosely) vehicles can claim and especially not a mazda shoe no matter how much faster it is.
<blockquote>Undoubtedly both of these additions would add some cost to the car. And that’s really the rub here. At over 28k, the JCW MINI is already pricey. But if you add $2k for the options mentioned, you’re talking about a MINI that starts at $30k.</blockquote>
Where can I get both of these items added to the factory JCW and be at $30k? Knauz, Patrick, or Bill Jacobs? I agree with everyone that this car should have been an ‘M’ type car as I’ve seen reported months back as the direction for the new factory MINI.
>Where can I get both of these items added to the factory JCW and be at $30k?
Not sure if you’re really questioning this but for some clarification, that was a proposed amount MINI could price the car at if everything came from the factory.
Still think this statement from:
<a href="http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/geneva/2008/2008minijohncooperworks.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/geneva/2008/2008minijohncooperworks.html</a>
“It features an upgraded turbocharged 1.6-liter engine, revised chassis tuning, distinctive body kit and plush new interior helping to set it apart from lesser second-generation Mini models.”
Believe this is a classic example how the automotive press is taking the R56 example Mini has been showing. Think the reaction once the same press figures out what the actual car is going to be will be something a bit different and not nearly as flattering as they have been with their misguided views.
Gabe what I would love is when you have the chance to review the bone stock factory car. From your previous writing think that seeing your reaction to the improved car with the base S suspension would be interesting.
People buy M cars for a reason.
Can you imagine an ///M car without the ///M suspension????
JCW ≠///M.
Gabe:
Any update on the availability of the Stage 1 tuning kit for the automatic transmission.
I am reading about the new factory car and am wondering how this could come out before the stage 1 kit for my car. I just know the second I go after market (which I do not want to do) they are going to announce the kit.
HELP HELP HELP