Ask Motoringfile: Summer Tire Recommendations
Well, it’s that time of year again. Winter’s winding down and Spring is right around the corner. Or, at least that’s what I’m telling myself as once again I’m watching flurries fall in Southern New Hampshire. Anyway, with the impending arrival of Spring, it’s time to start thinking about removing my winter boots and strapping on some fresh new summer sneakers. I’ve been doing a fair bit of research on The Tire Rack and have come up with a few options, but there are so many variables in the tire-buying process that it makes it difficult to come up with an informed decision.
The manufacturer’s copy is obviously designed to sell their tires over those of their competitors’, but that really isn’t worth much when making objective comparisons across brands, and sometimes not even *within* brands. Even worse, the only hard data provided by the manufacturer on a given tire’s grip and longevity — the UTQG or “Uniform Tire Quality Grade” — is a value derived by the manufacturer that’s not verified by an independent party and can’t be used to compare two tires from different categories or brands. Sites like the Tire Rack are great in that they provide lots of data and allow customers to review the products they’ve purchased, but even there you’re not likely to find someone who’s reviewed the exact tires you’re interested in *on your car*. So, hoping for the next best thing, I thought it’d be fun to see what MotoringFile readers have to say on the subject!
My goal is to find a three-season street-biased tire that will (in order of importance):
* not be a runflat (**updated**)
* have lots of grip
* be moderately priced
* have reasonable longevity (I’ve gone through more than one set of tires per summer for the last three years)
* and remain fairly quiet over the life of the tire
I’ll do a couple of track days and a half-dozen autocrosses this year. I will probably get a set of DOT R-compound tires in the hopes of removing the compromise between grip and longevity, so I’m leaning toward a less aggressive tire for the street. In the past I’ve used the Yokohama AVS ES100 and Kumho Ecsta MX, both of which only rated a “meh” rating from me, due to fairly rapid wear, and high levels of noise from the ES100s. The front-runner right now is actually an all-season tire, the Toyo Proxes 4, which still classifies as an “ultra-high performance” tire. I’m one of the proud few here at MotoringFile HQ who run 15″ wheels, which slightly complicates things. I’m planning to sport wider-than-stock 225/50/15 tires for a combination of good looks and lots of contact patch. That size does restrict the selection significantly, however.
So, what say you, the reader? What’s your favorite summer/three-season tire? How, where, and how much do you drive? How did *you* decide which tires to buy?
Links:
– The Tire Rack
– Tire Tech Information Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards
– Yokohama AVS ES100
– Toyo Proxes 4
My favorite is the BF-Goodrich G-Force Sport. Cheap. Sticky enough for daily / weekend driving if you have a second set of wheels and tires for autocross / track use. I didn’t notice any objectionable noise, but then I think that’s true for me for everything except Azenis and R-compounds. Using something else for track and autocross work, they lasted me more than one “season” / non-winter, and I put on a lot of miles.
I will most likely get another set of those when I need new tires, as they are a known quantity to me.
Bridgestone REO5O A or it’s replacement. Not cheap but in my experience w/ summer rated tires on my 3 (past & current) JCW Mini’s this is the one I keep coming back to. Does all things well, very sticky and even OK on sub 35degree days (mountains nights). Excellent turn- in, very good tread wear & not loud in the least.
Unfortunately, a lot of the Bridgestones are not available in 15″ (or even 16″).
I’ve been running the Toyo Proxes 4 since new in a 17″ and have had no issues at all. I currently have about 23k on them and will probably get around 32-35k out of them. I’ll be replacing them with the same and highly recommend them!
<blockquote>…one of the proud few here at MotoringFile HQ who run 15″ wheels.</blockquote>
chuckle
I would second the BF-Goodrich G-Force Sport!
They are GREAT tires, very inexpensive, good grip, low noise (at least when new). Wet grip is OK, not fantastic, but OK.
I am ALSO running 225/50/R15 on my 2005 MCS and I really like the extra grip!
~RM2K5
I’ve been pleased with the Bridgestone RE 050 as a compromise tire. Found better traction with the RE 010R, but they do not tolerate cold temps….
We’ve been very happy with our Yokohama S.Drive in 17 on our MCS. Great grip, not too noisy and surprisingly good in the yet. I’m just not sure that they’re available in your odd size!
Wow, never knew the BF Goodrich G-Force Sport were so popular. I’ve been running these on my car the past 3 summers and I still think i’ve got some tread left for this summer. They are pretty great actually. Wet grip could be better and has scared me a few times but when can you expect when taking a 90 corner at 60km/h. The tire guy recommended them and I will probably be picking up some new ones this summer. Pretty great grip on them but they don’t make much noise before letting go so when they do you have to be ready. Can’t remember hearing a squeal at all from them on the track actually.
I’ve been running 215/38/R18 and they’ve held up through huge potholes and all. There were numerous times I hit huge potholes thinking I would have punctured them but they made it through scott free.
. . . timely post Brian – Thanks! I think a lot of us are wading through a host of choices right about now. Should I stick with a tire I know or try something new? Hmmmmm . . . .
Another recommendation for BFG G-force sport. I ran these on my mazda3, two sets in a row. I’ve got Falkens Azenis’s now for an everyday tire, and they are LOUD, ROUGH, and dangerous in rain by comparison, and I don’t feel much added grip on the street (when I start autocrossing, I’m hoping I notice the difference). We still run runflats on the mini for the street (and Falkens Azenis’s for autocross).
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 or
Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season
Great post Brian. I’m sort of in the same situation – my Kumho’s are totally shot from a late year track day and I’m desperate for something in the next few weeks.
Since I’m running 18’s I have similar issues with finding tires in my size. Due to Chicago roads I’ll be increasing my sidewall a bit going from 35 to 40. So I’m looking for the relatively rare 215/40/18. Although on a side note I noticed the BMW 135i uses this size on the front tires so it may become increasingly common at places like the tirerack.
I’m leaning toward just going back to the Kumhos since they’re a solid tire and an incredible price (and there really aren’t a lot of good choices yet in the size I want). But that said I’m really interested in trying something new this year.
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 gets my nod, also. Very little road noise, a gradually give when the limited of adhesion is reached (as opposed to those tires that just ‘let go’), and amazing grip in the wet. I can’t really speak to longevity because I would autocross on these tires, which of course will cause premature wear. Having said that, despite going to the track every Friday from May to September, I ran the same set for a summer and a half.
My 16″ Kumho ASXs are holding up fairly well on my R50. I’m up to 18k miles on this set and they’re wearing better than the factory Dunlop runflats they replaced, but the Kumhos have a higher treadwear rating.
I just did a BMW CCA driving clinic in the MINI with these tires and they held grip better than I expected. We rarely see large snows here so I do use them year round. Pretty decent grip in the wet but after 10k miles they start to get a little noisy.
After scrificing my car last week at the altar of the snow gods in last weeks blizzard in Cincinnati, I am ordering an 08 MCS this Saturday. My MA has suggested foregoing the Sport Package and going with the 16″ Perf, tire and adding an anti-sway bar. Besides the aesthetic drawback of the 16″, is there any other issues with this plan? Opinions?
Gabe, was the Nav worth the two grand? That is another flip-flopping area for me.
Here are my specs if any one besides me cares.
MCS
Chilli Red/Black Roof and stripes
Cloth Seats
Piano Black dash with Rooster red color liine
Anthracite headliner
Premium Pack
Convience Pack
Cold Weather
Xenons.
I’ll be adding the Alta cold air intake and the new Unichip power chip too. (Poor man’s JCW! LOL!)
>My MA has suggested foregoing the Sport Package and going with the 16″ Perf, tire and adding an anti-sway bar. Besides the aesthetic drawback of the 16″, is there any other issues with this plan? Opinions?
Not to hijack this thread but I would highly recommend not getting the standard suspension if you plan to track the car in any way.
Is the Nav worth it? Yes…. and no. Would I get it again? …Yes.
I asked my dealer to replace the stock run-flat tires with Michelin PILOT EXALTO PE2’s when my MINI was delivered back in 2004.
They have proven to be sticky in the dry and wet and lasted over 20,000 miles – of which a good 1,500 where Nordschleife track miles.
I bought a new set late last summer and can only recommend them.
The only draw back is: I heard they are not to good on the Indianapolis track ;-D
Khumo ESTA 711’s
<a href="http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=6&ptn=711" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.kumhotire.ca/tires/details.php?line=1&cat=6&ptn=711</a>
These are great tires. The are not the stickest tires but i used to drive them like hell, very good in the rain and very inexpensive.
– add to my message above.
I did track those 711’s once when i was too tired to put my Ra-1’s on my ITR. I figured for the 30 mins (I used to lap at a local 1.2km track north of Montreal once a week) i was going out what difference did it make. Well they do get greasy fast at those temps but did not chunk and in the end the tires lasted me 3 full summers…from April 1 to dec 1.
Haven’t been able to get at MF until now. It’s nice to see so much activity. 🙂
Jason’s right, the Bridgestone selection is very limited in 15″. Turns out there is an RE050 available in 205/55 and 205/60 (both of which would work), but those are narrower than I want. They’re not available through The Tire Rack, either…
Rally, we almost traded Konig Rewinds a couple of years ago. Glad they’re still holding up well for you! I miss mine, but they won’t work with my Wilwoods without spacers. The BFG G-sports look like a decent tire, and I’m surprised to see so much consensus here! The price is reasonable, too, $95/tire from Tire Rack, right on par with the Yokohama ES100s.
The S.Drive tires are available in 205/55, which is on the short/narrow end of my range (-1.7% on the speedo). I’ll look more into these.
Tobias, how the <expletive deleted> did you manage to get so much track time out of your tires?! Are those just sight-seeing laps? 😉 It’s good to see some folks here with good experience with the Eagle F1s; I’ve seen some pretty sketch wear from them on a couple of cars up here, and they’re kind of pricey. They’re not available in any of the sizes I can use, either. Hey, I’m all about narrowing down my choices!
Michelin Pilots seem to be a good (if fairly expensive) option. I no longer live in Indianapolis, so it’s unlikely that my pit crew would forbid me from going for a drive…</expletive>
No Falken fans around here? I just switch from a set of Kumho ASX to Falken 912 (215 45 17) on my 03 MCS. They are little softer but lot quiter with a good grip. These are the successors of the 512 series.
Not a single mention yet for Hankook RS2 so I’m bound to post… wonderfully grippy, excellent rain performance (for a near-R compound), very very affordable. Only drawback I have seen running them on my miata is tendency to get loud as they near end-of-life. They have good support of the 15″ wheel size too as I run 205-50-15 on the miata. I run them in 215-45-17 on the mini. I bought them twice and would do so a 3rd time, particularly again given the low cost of admission to such excellent grip and feel.
I really like the RS2, but I consider it a little to soft & sticky for a daily driver tire. I used them as autocross / track tires for a season before I went to Toyo RA-1.
For daily driving, I’d opt for the BFG G-Force Sport. For fun, I’d opt for the RS2 (at that price point).
I have used Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 also. I’m not a fan of the looks… some people are, some people don’t care. The price / performance on those does hit a pretty sweet spot. But, I’d opt for something cheaper and less performing personally (I’m budget challenged).
The old Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position was a great tire, but expensive. The Eagle F1 was almost as good and cheaper. Of course, both of those are no longer being made…
And, just to complete the list of summer tires I’ve used (other than stock runflats), Azenis 615 are way too harsh and noisy for me to really consider them a daily driver tire – but they’re good for autocross.
The BFG G-Force Sport just seems to have the perfect mix (for me) of enough grip to be fun, enough tire life, and low enough cost to be the right answer for a cheap summer tire, assuming you have something else for track /autocross use.
If I didn’t track / autocross, I’d probably step up to something “better” and more expensive.
My personal favorite, not overly priced but just right tire would have to be the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position tires 😀 yea they’re not run flats but they are fantastic tread wear, best grip of any tire i’ve ever had on any of my cars, wonderful response and in wet weather, they almost have MORE grip than anything shy of a formula 1 tire (IMHO)
I am running Avon Tech M550 A/S “tyres” on my 04 MCS. I run them year round, no track/autocross, but some spirited driving.
Had them for close to 25K and they are holding up pretty well at this point. Always a mixed bag of weather in the DC area, and I have been very happy with wet, dry, cold, and snow performance.
FWIW…
Thanks for the Hankook suggestion, goat. I’d seen that one, but it hadn’t made it onto my list somehow. The R-S2 looks like it is reasonably priced and grips like — well, you get the idea.
The Hankook is the highest-performance tire on my list, now: “Extreme”, which is somehow higher-performance than “Max”. Which leads me to another question: what is the quantifiable difference between the various performance categories? On The Tire Rack’s site, there is a description of each category, but they contain such open-ended text as
1. “you want a good blend of dry and wet street performance” (ultra-high)
1. “you want an unsurpassed blend of dry and wet street traction and handling and only the finest will do” (max)
1. “you want extreme dry street performance and are willing to trade some comfort and hydroplaning resistance to get it” (extreme)
These categories again seem like the kind of thing for perhaps differentiating between tires from a given brand or manufacturer, but that are too subjective to be used across brands.
I know it’s pretty much a given, but runflats are right out of my selection process (and I updated the post to say as much). 🙂
Does anyone have any experience with Sumitomo tires? They’re by far the cheapest thing I’ve seen available ($74/tire at the TR for 225/50/15), but cheaper is not always better…
Gabe:
Don’t rule out the Pirelli Nero in the 215/40-18 size. Bit expensive, but a good performance tire. 😎
Winter tires? What are winter tires?
…says the San Diegan.
I’m running Nitto NeoGens in 205 40 18 & liking them. Of course anything is better than the Dunlop RFs that came on the car.
Another vote here for the BFG G-Force Sport. I have over 18K miles on my Honda Fit in the 205/45ZR16 size and they are great for aggressive driving. Just watch out for a tendency to hydroplane at speeds > 60MPH.
>Don’t rule out the Pirelli Nero in the 215/40-18 size. Bit expensive, but a good performance tire. 😎
Yeah I’ve been toying with the idea. But are they worth the money when considering what the Kumho can do and how much is costs?
For the record I’d be al over Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Positions if I could get them in a 215/40/18. I have them on my 3 series and they are fantastic.
<blockquote>Since I’m running 18’s I have similar issues with finding tires in my size. Due to Chicago roads I’ll be increasing my sidewall a bit going from 35 to 40. So I’m looking for the relatively rare 215/40/18. Although on a side note I noticed the BMW 135i uses this size on the front tires so it may become increasingly common at places like the tirerack.</blockquote>
Gabe – I suggest looking at some of Falken’s choices:
<a href="URL" rel="nofollow">http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?c=2&sw=false&cs=215&pc=18595&rd=18&ar=40</a> – My new tires
<a href="URL" rel="nofollow">http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?c=2&sw=false&cs=215&pc=28759&rd=18&ar=40</a>
<a href="URL" rel="nofollow">http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?c=2&sw=false&cs=215&pc=18158&rd=18&ar=40</a>
My ’02 MCS has 205/45R17 Michelin PILOT EXALTO PE2’s in the spring summer and fall. Then I switch to the same size Pirelli Winter 240 Snow Sports for the other ten months of the year up here in Minnesota.
I am currently running the BF Goodrich Traction T/AV <a href="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Traction+T%2FA+V" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Traction+T%2FA+V</a> in 205/50-16 and am very happy with the tire. The wet and dry traction are excellant for daily driving, ride comfort is better than the original Dunlop run-flats. Overall driving characteristics are excellant. Tread life seems better than the original Dunlops. Since they are actuually an all-season tire there is no problems with cold weather traction. I have only done one run with other MINIs and never felt wanting for traction, even when we ventured onto some dirt roads.
I live in southern New England where every snow storm seems to turn into an ice event. Meaning that ice on the roads is common, so I have a set of 185/65-15 Nokian Hakka2, with studs, for those really bad times.
For my Auto-X or HPDE days I have a set of Falken Azenis RT-615 in 215/45-16. These are a great tire, lots of traction wet or dry, good tread life. Interesting aside, a stack of 4 RT-615 in 215/45-16 is actually 0.75″ narrower than a stack of 4 Traction T/AV 205/50-16. When measuring the scuffed portion of the tread on both tires reveals that they are the same width, 7.75″ or 197mm.
I like my Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s, sized 215/40/17…
I’ve run Yokohama AVS Sports (similar to the EVS100s) and have HORRIBLE experience with them… Greasy when hot, slippery when cold, dangerous in the wet, and just down-right dangerous when the temps dropped below 45F.
I found that the tires heat-cycled into very expensive hockey-pucks about 1/2 way through their life (with only 2 track-days and a few spirited country rides.
If the Goodyears are too Pricey, the Avon M500s are OK as an intermediate summer tire.
Another owner of 4 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3’s here – love ’em. Will buy again…