This from Edmunds Inside Line.
>The federal government is looking into complaints from some consumers that they have received leg burns from contact with the exhaust pipe in the 2007-’08 Mini Cooper S. The engineering analysis, which is sometimes a precursor to a safety recall, involves up to 20,000 vehicles, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Here’s an excerpt from the complaint report on the NHTSA website:
>The office of defects investivation (ODI) opened this investigation based on three consumer complaints on the 2007 model year MINI COOPER S. The complaints reported being burned on their legs by the hot exhaust pipe tip while they were removing cargo items from the rear hatch area of the their vehicles.
No injuries and no recall has been announced yet. Something to keep an eye on. And be careful loading and unloading the boot after you have been driving. Those pipes do get very hot!
[ Feds Look into Complaints of Exhaust Pipe Burns from Mini Cooper S ] Edmunds Inside Line
I’ve burnt my shin on my ’04 MC exhaust pipe (off to the side) while leaning way in to load something… don’t ask exactly, probably just careless… but I don’t know if the R56’s exhaust sticks out more than the R53’s central exhaust. If not, I don’t know why it would suddenly be an issue.
Interesting.
Having owned an R53 MCS and now an R56 MCS, I can say that the R56 stock tailpipe finishers do extend past the rear bumper a bit farther than the R53 exhaust. I also had a Milltek exhaust on my R53 which extended about as far as the R56 stock exhaust.
Having said that, I’ve burned my lower leg at different times on all three (R53 stock, Milltek and R56 stock!) Eventually I’ll learn, I guess. As DB said, the key is to be careful when loading/unloading.
The Borla exhaust on my R50 sticks out much further than stock. A fact I can prove by showing you the scar on my son’s leg.
Needless to say, it’s only happened once and we are both very careful around it.
My daughter got a severe, 2nd degree burn on our R56 tailpipes about 2 weeks ago. It’s on her calf and shaped like a new moon – she basically touched 1/2 of 1 tailpipe when trying to get her suitcase out of the car. My wife is not happy about that one. It would be great to have a fix.
Thanks for the interesting update.
This is being looked into? This is as startling a revelation as the discovery that McDonald’s coffee is hot. Can we all say “DUH”?
If they think that the stock exhaust tips stick out too far, they should take a look at my R56 JCW exhaust tips… lol.
This country is in a very sad state.
greg, BINGO!
I wonder if anyone ever complained about holding the wrong end of a lit match?
People need rules to protect them from themselves while I need some rules to protect me from them.
I always watch that hot tailpape while loading and unloading but I currently have a 1/2 moon burn on my right shin. Gotta be really careful as it is very easy to forget and end up with burns.
The relevant question is how often exhaust burns occur with MINI compared to other cars. If it happens with unusually high frequency, it is a valid concern. Here on MotoringFile, it seems that even MINI enthusiasts and very experienced owners have had exhaust burns. Imagine then what it’s like for the vast majority of people owning a MINI for the first time. If you never even had to worry about the exhaust in any of your previous cars, you wouldn’t know to be more careful around a MINI.
I’ve caught myself on the tailpipes once when I was unloading shopping – though I was wearing shorts at the time.
I can see the tailpipes, I know they are going to be hot… I just decided that I had been careless.
I would NEVER complain about them… what a ridiculous scenario this is.
As faster, Tobias! said… people need protecting from themselves… I’d quite like a warning sticker above the tailpipes actually, I think it would look rather cool 🙂
Dude, I’ve burned my leg on our Cooper AND my MCS, both 1st generation MINIs- several times, in fact! However, instead of bothering MINI about it, I figure that eventually I’ll stop being an idiot and learn from my mistakes.
The way I see it, if I never figure it out, I deserve to get burned. Call me crazy… but I agree with the McDonald’s analogy. You don’t want the burn? Keep an eye out for the exhaust pipe(s)!!
Let’s put a warning on a hair dryer so people won’t use them in the shower or bathtub while water is present.
Let’s put a warning on that plastic bag so lazy parents won’t have to educate their kids that they can be harmful or dispose or store them in a proper place and what about a warning label on buckets?
Let’s let the world be ruled by lazy, stupid people and let’s dumb down everything for them so they can’t get hurt.
Let’s grow up and take responsibility for your actions instead of making the rest of of pay for you not being smart enough to realize it’s a hot tail pipe or you not watching your kids around your car or at least warning them that it’s a HOT tail pipe.
My mom turned handles on stove tops away from the front, she warned me about anything that might be HOT, SHARP, POISONOUS or potentially DEATH THREATENING, put kid safe latches on cupboards and, finally, told me to instal seat belts in my 1956 Ford Country Squire in 1964..
THANKS MOM, I guess you were smarter than I realized.
I don’t know about the general consensus.
You will learn after the FIRST time but I feel this is designed improperly.
This is NOT like spilling hot liquid on yourself or general ignorance. This is more like a hidden hazard. The exhaust tips are low, obscure and they stick out, positioned close to where people NEED to be when loading/unloading.
I not one of those people that thinks we should all walk around surrounded by air bags. No. Stupid people should get theirs. But there is something to be said for properly designing something so even “smart” people don’t get hurt.
Exhaust pipes are going to be hot. I try not to get near them until they cool down — on whatever car I am around. On my R53, I managed to melt the electric harness for my trailer because I had it come down just above the exhaust. Did I file a complaint with the NHTS? Nope, I patched the harness and put some heat shielding in place. Bad design? Nope, just careless folks, in my mind.
What’s next? Recalls on motorcycles when careless people put skin against a hot pipe???
The match / coffee analogy is totally irrelevant as if matches and coffees were used as they were intended, nothing out of the norm would happen. I understand that exhaust pipes get hot but that is no reason for the average automotive buyer to go out of his way to avoid getting burned in the normal business of unloading his vehicle. By saying that the people who have been burned my MINI’s tailpipe issue are stupid, you are insulting all the people on this forum as well as their families who’ve had this already happen to them.
I find it interesting that Edmunds ran picture of the R53 MCS exhaust as their illustration for a supposed problem on an R56. Good job Edmunds? On my R53 I’ve not come close to toasting myself, but I can see it could be an issue for some folks on the R56. I guess my beer gut keeps me far enough away to keep me safe.
I just got my Mini “branding” last night hahaha and i’ve had the car for 3 months, its just a freak thing im not worried about it. altho it wasnt bad at all but still if they instate a recall to have them pushed back i’ll ignore it…
Some are using this as an opportunity to rant on the general topic of government regulations and personal responsibility. For the most part I agree with those sentiments.
And I still feel the MINI exhaust ends are bad ergonomic design. I do not advocate a safety recall, but I think MINI made some bad design decisions.
The coffee analogy never holds up. Well, it never holds up if you actually bother to find out what actually happened. 3 degree burns in only a few seconds of exposure from a FOOD PRODUCT. How dare anyone complain.
Other than babies getting burned, which its not very nice and its seems an awful and painful experience (for parents as well); What in the world are guys doing getting so close to the bumper in the first place? I have never ever burned myself and wasn’t even aware of this issue. So, quick obvious solution …keep your legs away from the car!! = )
Yeah I’ve burned my shin a bit on my r56 JCW exhaust tips before. It was no big deal, I was just sure to watch out for it next time I was leaning in the boot.
I agree 100% with Nuvolari…… Totally idiotic to say the least!
News for the uninformed: Exhaust pipes on ANY car can be hot and produce burns if touched… Shall we say in chorus “ORLY!”.
I guess this is not a problem in the R55 Clubman S as the pipes extend to the sides of the rear bumper and not the center like in the R56 S.
I can’t wait for the next recall… “Owner’s bell bottom pants are getting caught on the seat height lever” This has caused an untold number of ripped pants and/or owners exiting their vehicles in a less than dignifying way”.
Get a Clubman S…. No more pipes running on the center!
CAUTION: Exhaust May Be Hot!
CAUTION: Tires May Run Over Feet!
CAUTION: Remove Fingers Before Slamming Door!
Just some suggestions for MINI vendor decals, vinyls, etc.
(I was taught that third-degree burns involve charring of the skin.
Can hot water from an insulated cup char the skin?)
See what you get (MINI) when you take an enthusiasts car and make it marshmallow soft for the everyday crowd!
LAWSUITS! And Whining. All new MINI’s will come with complementary cheese to go with the whine. May I suggest Kraft singles.
Most motorcycle companies would be out of business if they had to make their exhaust burn proof.
Go ahead and keep whinning about the exhaust. Part of the Mini’s unique look are thoses tailpipes. Next thing you know they will go they way of the burble. Hey are you guys the ones who open champagne bottles pointed to your face?
I agree with those saying that this is such a sue-happy concern. Come on, people. Naturally because the Cooper S exhaust is in the center of the rear bumper, burns are certainly more likely to happen. Come on people.
My intent was to insult them! PERIOD!
Hi Stigg,
I’m glad that your intent is to insult my 6 year old daughter with a big MINI burn. We haven’t complained to anyone and we’re certainly not filing a law suit. (In fact I don’t think anyone has filed suit.) I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable about trying to determine if the design could be safer.
We constantly tell her and her younger sister to be careful around the pipes, but this accident happened. If there’s a mod that would make it less likely, I’d do it.
This has come up sooner or later with every center exhaust car I know, and unless it’s a dedicated race car, it’s a styling caprice. It’s actually less efficient for pushing the gasses away from the car, even at speed, to have them centered – plus, if you idle for an unusually long time, there’s a higher chance of exhaust gasses entering the cabin if your car’s rear body seals aren’t in good shape – that’s why they usually exit on a corner. Plus there’s a very low chance of burning yourself in corner exit designs, as you are less liable to be standing at all there, much less loading from that position. I put a center exit pipe on my old Mini 30 years ago, and still regret the burn my son got from it – he was too young to realize he couldn’t just bounce off of it unmarked, when it was hot.
The MINI by design has a very short overhang, and that adds to the risk factor. Yup, it’s a risk factor, albeit small for those of us who are careful…or burned once before, but it does stick out past the bumper and is a hazard, so it’s not a hot coffee comparison. And yeah, it’s hot, and you oughta watch out, but I know that little kids are more likely to find out these kind of things by trial and error, not something you want to see as a manufacturer. The chances of accident, even by an informed adult, are calculated as safety factors, so you wouldn’t want that affecting your car’s value, new or used. It’s interesting that an exhaust burn used to be a common way sepsis would set in, back in the day, and people succumbed from casual contact with a hot exhaust – now we’re pretty casual about it, but that’s one of the major reasons it lives out of the way under the car – people died. Folks complaining now aren’t whiners, they just have different values regarding burnt flesh.
I have an idea for a mod for those of you with kids you can’t keep away from the back of a hot car. It’s called a MINI VAN.
The original Minis never came with center exhausts as standard equipment, I think they had a clue about this kind of possibility. To be honest with you, I thought it was a nice gesture to remember the boy-racer look of screw-on black plastic fender flairs and the straight-pipe Abarth hangin’ out the back that was sort of iconic, but I had visions of leg burns when I saw the first pics of the new MINI – I had been there, done that, thank you. I thought it was an accident waiting to happen, and it proved to be so.
And I’m so glad there are all these kind words of advice about child rearing and MINI-omerta from the oh-so-perfect-world/spit-on-it-and-rub-some-dirt-in-it witch doctors for those of conflicting opinions, BTW – show some class why dontcha?
I agree with Vanwall. It’s not necessarily a stupidity issue (and god knows we’re all prone to that sometimes), its more a function of the center-pipe location combined with a short bumper.
Had they gone with the original beer can idea, we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. Just think, large diameter = large surface area, combine that with a really thin wall thickness aluminum = rapid cooling after shutdown. I’m sensing a whole new round of Foster’s ads. Brilliant!
I am not a one trial learner so I have burned myself repeatedly. I think it is a design flaw. Of course we know it is hot but when you are in a hurry, you reach in to the boot and next think you know you are in pain. Is it worth a recall?
Why is this an issue now?
I have seen thread after thread over on NAM the last 6 years, and not one on this issue. Judging From the posts here, Apparently half the community has scarred children but they would rather complain as often as possible about the interior (i.e. center stack). Apparently everyone has burned legs but all you can find on the forums is wailing about melted hood scoops.
Is this just what we have left to complain about?
what the….. this is ridiculas. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
Are they also looking into Harley Motorcycles? the long chrome alloy exhaust? I drive my motor maybe a few weeks a year and burn my legs way to often (my mistake) I drive my mini the whole year and never burned my leg.
There is something realy wrong with this country!
How about the Tow bar issue where you bang your shin against them in parking lots. You can buy rubber covers for bars. Do we outlaw tow bars? I guess that is why they [BMW] invented retractable bars with electric motors, or a manual tow hook you can take off when not in use.
I have never liked the centre exhaust pipes because I am an old Mini fan where the exhaust pipe came out on the left rear.
How come the pipes get so hot anyhow? Is this a design issue rather than a fault?
This is ridiculous. I’ve had my MINI almost 5 years now. Never once have I even come close to burning my legs, and I’m constantly getting things out of my boot. Why have I been so lucky? Because I’m armed with a very basic knowledge that exhaust pipes from any internal combustion engine are very hot. How did I learn this nifty piece of information? My dad told me when I was a kid, “don’t touch exhaust pipes; they’re hot”.
Thanks, Dad!
Now you’ve been warned. Pass it on. Tell your children. My 2 year-old knows it. Why is this such a big secret?
Oh, boy! Here we go! Our tax dollars at work again! From now on, all cars will carry a warning label secured to the tailpipe/s reading: “Caution-touching this pipe may cause burns”! Good God, what would we do without the Feds protecting us?! A perfect example of Dumbing Down of America at its best!
Four Minis(five counting my girlfriends) over four year. Zero burns(for either of us). How about those heavy doors that always want to swing back on my shins? I think there should be a federal investigation on them. It’s a design flaw! Hey, someone pay attention to me, I’m a victim!
Well, maybe the exhausts could be a little safer, but I have not heard anything about the Feds investigating the fact that the PS pumps seem to catch fire in MINIs at a rate decently above cars at large. Fires that can cause way more than superficial burns. There is a long thread at NAM about it and people have definitely submitted complaints, yet nothing.
It seems to me that the Cooper S is particularly prone to hot exhaust tips for a couple reasons. The first is that the exhaust on the R56 Cooper S is fairly compact. There are several feet less exhaust on the R56 than the R53. This equates to less time for the exhaust to cool. The second is that the R56 produces more power which means more heat.
Maybe a solution would be to direct more air over the exhaust tips while the car is in motion.
I’m all for personal responsibility and hate frivolous lawsuits, but I can see the merits of this and I hope something good does come out of it. I only hope that the resolution to this is not a big sticker to be placed on all bumpers that says “CAUTION: EXHAUST PIPE IS HOT!”
Amazing.
People out there are getting serious burns and all you can do is call them morons and idiots. Yes, the tailpipes are hot. Yes, we know they can cause a burn. … and yes, we burned ourselves anyway. Would a simple fix prevent further burns? Yes. Is it worth it if one less child gets burned? yes.
Let me clear a few things up. I have a 2007 MCS. The tailpipe extends out beyond the bumper. It does so when it’s cold and when it’s hot. I burned myself on the tailpipe… and not from the exhaust heat. It’s my understanding that Mini has already adjusted the tailpipe in the 2009.
Another clarification for those who simply think this is a lesson that ought to be learned by those who are drunk, stupid, and can’t operate the blinkers:
These burns are serious. My burn was a full thickness 3rd degree burn that required IV antibiotics and 10 days of dressing changes twice a day. My burn developed cellulitis around it that could have spread and put my life in danger. These are not simply bothersome. They’re not cool tattoos and Mini is not simply “branding” me. These are real injuries and when they happen to children, nobody out there should be joking about them.
Why are some burns worse than others? Simple. The degree to which tissue will be injured is based on the temperature of the material, the duration of contact, and the pressure. In my case, I was lifting a heavy object out of the back of the Mini when my left shin came in contact with the tailpipe. it was after a long drive and I was bracing myself to get the object out. The time of contact was short, but the temperature was hot and the pressure was plentiful. When burns happen to areas that don’t receive a lot of blood supply, they’re even more dangerous… and I think everyone out there would agree – there isn’t much tissue and perfusion between your skin and your bone on the shin.
As to all this talk about lawsuits and the nonsense about McDonalds…. perhaps another clarification would help:
Nobody (to my knowledge) has sued. This isn’t a get rich scheme. This isn’t an attempt to legislate anything or to dupe anyone. This is an attempt to fix something that is hurting people.
If this does become a class-action suit, then it will not be because Mini’s tailpipes are hot. it would be because Mini didn’t listen when dozens of people were getting hurt and complaining.
This should not become a lawsuit, but if it does, my share is going to the burn unit in my hospital.
But I repeat: Nobody has pushed for a lawsuit.
So, what’s wrong with the tailpipe? Don’t all tailpipes get hot? Isn’t coffee supposed to be hot? Aren’t knives supposed to be sharp. Absolutely. Here’s the difference:
Nearly everyone burned by their tailpipe was acting in a very normal way. They weren’t lifting up the hood and kissing the engine. They were lifting something out of their trunk. When you reach in and pull something out of your trunk, you shouldn’t get hurt doing so. You shouldn’t have to think to yourself: “hmmm… I’m pulling something out of my trunk – this is dangerous – I better be extra careful.
Why are they getting burned? When you look at the 2007 MCS, the tailpipe comes out past the bumper a bit. It doesn’t come out a lot.. but just enough – so that the FIRST thing that your shin comes in contact with is the tailpipe. A simple inch would solve the problem.
I took my Mini to the dealer and they loosened the tailpipe and pounded away. They were able to push it in about a quarter inch. not quite enough.
So, if there’s a recall coming that’s going to prevent one of my three sons from getting burned, you bet I’m signing up.
final clarification: I do know what I’m talking about. I’m a doctor specializing in anesthesia and critical care. I see burn patients daily. If Mini can do something to prevent this obviously wide-spread problem, it should. I don’t care about fault. i don’t care about lawsuits. I just want it addressed.
ori
<b>Just an update – there were only 3 consumer complaints – not 32. </b>
Yeah, let’s slam people who lodge a complaint about getting burned. Yeah… right on.
Well then, doc, please post lengthy views to all other forums with respect to sources of burns, including but not limited to stove manufacturers, home heating radiator manufacturers, and motorcycle exhaust manufacturers.
We agree that MINI can solve this by shortening the extension but we don’t agree that the federal government needs to step in to address something far less dangerous that many other burn scenarios.
Fifth last word … “than”, not “that”.
This is sad.
don’t worry – i’ll keep this short.
i called Mini and let them know about my burn. their response was defensive and anything but helpful.
When you use the stove, you take care not to touch the hot parts. Why not do that with your car? Well, for the most part, we all do. The difference here is that this particular hot part is the first thing you come in contact with and most people do not associate reaching into the trunk of their car with the risk of getting burned.
on a side note, I too believe the gov’t has more important things to do…. but if their pressure on BMW will prevent more burns, i think it’s taxdollars well spent.
ori
What if R56’s were bursting into flames when involved in a 15 MPH crash? Would you tell people to not be idiots and learn to drive? The tailpipe is the way it is because a design decision, and safety needs to be a part of that decision. Most cars have the tailpipe behind the bumper and thus reduce is hazard. MINI has decided not to do this, and may “get burned” by a recall. It’s not studipity, it’s just a part of automotive design.
well stated, chad.
@ori
with all due respect if you suffered third degree burns you must have been in contact with the tailpipes for a considerable amount of time, in fact:
Third-degree burns occur when the epidermis is lost with damage to the hypodermis. Burn victims will exhibit charring and extreme damage of the dermis, and sometimes hard eschar will be present. Third-degree burns result in scarring and victims will also exhibit the loss of skin hair and keratin. These burns may require grafting.
I have caught myself on the tailpipe and jumped off with shock as much as anything else, and there is no way I could have sustained damage of the type you describe without literally holding my leg up against the tailpipe for several minutes. Your story is alarmist and basically doesn’t stack up… in fact I’d go so far as to say it’s a third rate invention.
let’s put our feet back on the ground for a minute.
Why would i make any of this up? What possible benefit would there be?
When I showed my leg to the director of our burn unit, he told me that had it been any wider, it would have required a skin graft. He told me that if I didn’t get off of my feet and start antibiotics, that he would hospitalize me immediately and confine me to bed with my leg elevated. As it turned out, I was relieved from duty and sent home.
Believe me – this is no “third rate invention” and the mere suggestion of such makes me wonder what your motivation might be.
If you’d like further education on burns, feel free to stop by your local burn unit. In the meantime, please keep your silly accusations to yourself.
We have a saying in our family: “How many times do you need to touch the electric fence before you ‘get it’?” It’s an exhaust pipe!!! It gets hot!!! But our government is here to protect us, uh, ‘them’.
My favorite is Braille labels on drive up ATM machines. Which leads to the question, “How does a blind person qualify for a driver’s license?”
Ori…erm… ‘charred skin’… ‘extreme damage’ is the definition of third degree burning. You would need to be exposed to an open flame to get that kind of injury. How long did you have your leg on there for ffs? Your story… one minute you are about to be hospitalized and the next you are sent home with antibiotics? Lol. There is no way this story stacks up. Are you one of the 3 litigants… because with your ‘injury’ you should be.
I don’t normally get into this kind of dialogue on the internet but honestly, this story is garbage. Troll is the word that springs to mind…
It’s nice to hear from a doctor on this one – and I don’t mean the Wikipedia-spouting kind of wannabes that want to sound informed but really aren’t, or the I’m-so-much-smarter-than-you-but-I’m-really-just-stupid-and-uninformed-sounding-self-righteous-ones-that-make-me-want-to-have-an-informed-discussion-with-a-tree-or-a-rock-as-it-would-be-less-abusive-and-more-intelligent post trolls – thanks for your calm and insightful input, and have a nice day, ori. There may be only 3 complaints, but somehow reading here I sense there are more out there, ya think? Let’s all play nice in Motoringfile land, the owner/operator has the discretion to put anyone off the bus for poor manners.
Oh, and my secret agenda to lock you all in a closet and suck all the air out through a straw sounds like it’s at least a second-rate Guvmint invention, if not first-rate. Ooopsie, I made that up.
we need a doctor then…
This how a lot of cool things dissapear(I.e. The burble). A few careless people complain and something special gets watered down for the masses. Hey if anyone thinks this car is such a hazard to life and limb buy a freakin’ Saturn but don’t ruin it for the rest of us. Next it will be “wah, it’s not big enough”.
If you saw a picture of Ori’s burn you’d agree it was pretty bad.
I have no reason to doubt he works in the medical field.
Yes, robbie, I’ve no doubt about that. Speaking of the medical field, there was some online-a-pedia half-truth quoting chap needing a doctor up-thread – burned his leg on a hot exhaust, I daresay – but as the physician wasn’t convincing enough, I presume he needs the kind of doctor that has access to electro-shock therapy, just for “convincing”, mind you. Wouldn’t do to have him trying first aid without knowing the subject so thoroughly, eh?
So, ‘vanwall’, I guess you’d be the first off the bus with your run-on categorization of others who have posted logical reasoning as to the idiocy of getting the government involved.
Buy another car if this is an issue … or better yet, ask MINI to adjust the tip for you before you buy.
I don’t see any logical reasoning regarding any idiocy other than the idiocy of those who see insulting intelligent discussion or opinions as a logical exercise, and they deserve no place in that discussion. I haven’t put all the anti-Gov nay-sayers in one basket, BTW, just the ones who imply idiocy in others. Avoid getting to the “nattering nabobs of negativity” level, that would just delineate certain bad old traits. Haven’t seen any proof of idiocy in getting the Evil Useless Guvmint involved – just histrionics and off-putting exclusion comments; the buy another car one is so over. Uh-oh, someone else is in the basket now.
oh dear, this is sounding like a teen forum of fantastical claims supported by clever words and confusing syntax.
I’m not unique, and I’m not stupid either, so perhaps me and a million other guys are the exception… but I have owned an S (53 and 56) since 2003 and I’ve only once momentarily caught myself on the tailpipe… and I can’t for the life of me see how I could really damage myself to the point where my flesh would have been charred (or whatever words you want to use – but search 3rd degree burns images for clarification).
Either way, I will concede that there is a design issue, although my personal issue has been that if I leave the engine running and I go to the back of the car I get a lungful of exhaust if I load up. The Clubman has sorted this, so maybe that’s the way to go for the S. Although I genuinely feel that a simple warning in documentation and handover could at least give people a heads up about the issue… and probably would have avoided the burns that have been reported.
I’ve been burned slightly from my R56 bending in to place or retrieve an item. I don’t doubt you could run the car hard enough and quickly get out and repeat that same motion and get a bad burn. Most Cobra replica owners get medium to nasty burns once from the sidepipes, which while more exposed are probably about the same temperature.
I don’t see anything wrong with having a fix available for this issue as long as it’s optional, looks OK and solves the more severe problem of exhaust pipe soot getting on my leg and pants. Though, cleaning it once in a while does seem to help that issue.
@Ori
nice comparisons. I also have one.
In traffic sometimes accidents happen. People can be killed by this.
Now you do the math!
What a hot topic.
Sorry.
b4mmy:
i have little to say other than this:
Next time, before you utter accusations and base your knowledge on some images and keywords you looked up on the web, do me a favor:
try to understand where people are coming from, educate yourself properly, and give others the benefit of the doubt.
Good luck to anyone who has been burned – by a Mini or otherwise. If I can help any of you, feel free to let me know.
Ori Gottlieb, MD
Assistant Professor
Anesthesia & Critical Care
University of Chicago Medical Center
Proud Mini Cooper S 2007 Owner
Cheers ori, I’m well and truly owned – can you post a pic of your burn by any chance?
Here’s the link to the NorthAmericanMotoring forum that started in June with this topic.
A picture of my burn is closer to the bottom of the first page.
The picture was taken after all of the gross $%# was scraped off (and yes, $%# is the correct medical term for it)
<a href="http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145822&highlight=burn+pipe" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145822&highlight=burn+pipe</a>
Maybe you need some reading comprehension help … “or better yet, ask MINI to adjust the tip for you before you buy”. That was conveniently excluded in your being put off.
Really, putting things in perspective, this issue is a pathetic joke.
I can’t help it that your tip needs adjusting – you’ve shown off enough ‘shortcomings’ here already, so out of pity, I left off your issues with length. If you insist on seeing a pathetic joke there, why, of course we’re laughing with you, not at you – trust me, I’m not like the others.
….mmm methinks vanwall, who has previously been one of my favourite posters has adopted a role akin to that of forum policeman, ie: all-views-that-conflict-and are uninformed-are-invalid-and-superfluous? Every board has one sadly.
Anyway, I’ve thought again about this leg burning issue and had a look around the office car park today. It seems that centered tailpipes, or tailpipes that protrude are far-far from unique to Mini. Mercedes, Audi, and VW all have them on several of their models. In fact, all the ‘sporty’ ‘exclusive’ ones seem to quite like the idea of prominent pipes. My question is then, how many boards are there dedicated to this discussion for those other manufacturers? And how many of them are under any kind of investigation. Or are premium brand buyers not prone to catching themselves on them?
Just asking the question.
It seems some here are confused by long words and sentences, and are also confused by their own importance, or lack of it, SADLY. I’m not here for a popularity contest, nor do I need to be a policeman here – know-nothings are hoist by their own petards in this forum, (that means they make fools of themselves on their own, just so the confusing syntax and clever words don’t tax your tiny brain) – as our good doctor here can attest. I’d say eating huge amounts of crow after insulting a more qualified person should be a lesson in itself, but if your meals consist of this kind of diet regularly, please feel free to display your ignorance on other matters, as well. The Guvmint Flaming Center Exhaust Konspiratzia to secretly control your oh-so confused mind will prolly go on with or without you.
ditto… so, the question above? Any ideas…
Ah, I see you’ve gotten down to the “Oh yeah? So’s your old man!” level when you’ve run out of words, altho I’m afraid I don’t fall into the categories mentioned – best to keep it simple to be civil for you, I agree, so please continue along those lines.
I neither know nor care about other brands in this particular matter, and I have stated my experiences with center exhausts on other marques above in a general way. The issue here concerns the MINI, and any other “factoids” would be clouding that issue.
Trading personal insults with you mr wall, tempting as it may be… is pointless. So no ripost from me… I hope it doesn’t frustrate you too much, there are far less civil and more appropriate fora than this one in which one can perform willy fencing.
You don’t care about the other brands? Why not… does the safety of others not bother you. The question is actually very important AND relevant. As I said, I went into my car park at lunchtime today and by standing against the cars there I came into contact with all the tips of all the cars I mentioned and most if not all were actually higher up than the mini’s, and therefore probably a lot more dangerous as a result.
Would you not concede that this is an industry wide ‘issue’ and that the industry as a whole should consider it’s position on the matter… or don’t you care about that either.
These three cases have possibly brought the issue into popular consciousness, and that may be a good thing… as long as the Mini community now doesn’t begin to self deprecate and thus create a target of itself when there are many, many other protagonists that should be dealt with in the same way and on the same level. Some rather more seriously.
This is a great discussion that is quickly turning pear shaped.
Let’s try to get back on track before I have to close comments (again).
BTW, anyone see the new <a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/section/r60/" rel="nofollow">R60 stuff yet?</a>
I defer to your suggestion, DB.
Both me and one of my young cycling teammates had encounters with my R56 tailpipes during momentary lapses of paying attention. We both lived (and laughed) through the “ordeals.” Further proof to me of the Wussification of America.
I shudder to think about the third generation after the wimps have their way. Hidden tail pipes, an even higher hood, a sewing machine engine so it can be more “green”(scuse me I have to sneeze…”ahhhhbullsh**”), and a little flower vase like the new VW bug. Maybe a feminine hygine storage compartment. Pretty soon there will be a four door………….
I’m afraid the next car for me will be a Lotus. How sad it will be to walk away from my favorite car. Funny how other premium Euro-sport cars avoid all this jello spine foolishness.
<blockquote>Funny how other premium Euro-sport cars avoid all this jello spine foolishness.</blockquote>
couldn’t agree more… the ‘if one leg is saved then it’s worth it’ is a maxim for a society destined to live in a sack of cotton wool and force fed The Carpenters Greatest Hits. There has to be a point, within reason where people take some ownership and responsibility for their own actions.
This is a good example of what happens when you live in the most litigious country in the world. When a valid discussion turns to bickering and name calling, and someone gets mad when they don’t get their way, then comes the lawsuits. Remember in the “good old days” when you had to file a lawsuit to get big industry to even “acknowledge” they had a safety problem. Now, due to all the frivolous lawsuits, they won’t acknowledge any safety problem for fear they will then get sued over it.
>When a valid discussion turns to bickering and name calling, and someone gets mad when they don’t get their way, then comes the lawsuits. Remember in the “good old days†when you had to file a lawsuit to get big industry to even “acknowledge†they had a safety problem. Now, due to all the frivolous lawsuits, they won’t acknowledge any safety problem for fear they will then get sued over it.
Exactly! Great point.
The last five posts prior to mine, now, make it clear this issue is a REALLY big joke.
Oh, ‘vanwall’, good to see you think you are of some importance here or anywhere. A suggestion … keep it short and sweet … you’re not impressing anyone.
Bunch of idiots posting in this thread. If you read the original post, this is an investigation brought on by some customers complaining to a safety organization. It didn’t say recall, it said engineering study to see if there is validity to the complaint. Just saying it’s not an issue ignores the fact that it might be a real issue. Mini is the only car I’ve ever gotten burned by. But I’m also smart enough that one experience doesn’t a statitstical study make. Let the wheels grind and find the data. then we’ll know if people like me are clods, or if the design is a true outlier from the norm that while obvious (exhaust can be hot) is also so different from the norm that action may be warranted.
Time will tell, that’s for sure.
Matt
Really sad to see the tone of some of these comments.
– I’m not sure if other makes/models have this issue or not. I suspect that Mini might because you have to reach down into the hatch more than other cars because of the size/shape of the car. Just a thought.
– Thank you Dr Obnxs – excellent points – this is not a discussion on the merits of litigation, but on the fact that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating whether or not an issue exists at all. If they conclude that there isn’t an issue, so be it.
– I’m not sure what people mean by “taking responsibility for your own actions.” I’m not accusing Mini of designing the tailpipe in order to burn people. They don’t owe me anything (although a new ’09 JCW would be nice) I just think that this issue didn’t come up until the car was out there and people started getting burned. I take full responsibility for my burn. That doesn’t mean I don’t want the tailpipe tips pushed in an inch or two.
– Now that Mini is aware that this is happening, I ask that they redesign the tailpipe in order to prevent more burns. That’s it.
Ori you have more time than any doctor I ever met.
Ya know – When Carroll Shelby built the Cobra, I am pretty sure he left the following line out of the ‘owner’s manual’ – “Be careful upon entering or exiting your vehicle as the side-pipes will have become hot enough to scorch your flesh from a spirited driving session.”
God forbid anyone buys a Zonda, where the central exhaust is right at crotch level….
I have to get this done for my child’s sake, why do some of you think it stupid or a reflection on our sad country? He’s two, he has no idea how long the car has been there and if it is safe to walk by the bumper. Never had this problem with my Boxster S because those Germans were smart enough to consider this problem. If you don’t like the fix or agree with it, don’t get it and don’t read these articles. But some of us welcome the change out of necessity.
Well, I find that in the USA, frivolous lawsuits are the norm. Common sense in society has pretty much fallen to the way side.
If a lady can sue Winabago and wind for her accident that occured because she got up to make a sandwich while cruise control was engaged, and claimed that she didn’t know that the vehicle would not steer itself.
Did you also know that a Judge, an actual Judge has filed a lawsuit against God. Something to do with breaking promises made in the Bible.
and C4, That whole pant leg/seat lever thing. Has happened to me numberous times. I just attributed it to my long legs and how I have to manouvre them them exit the vehicle. The lever is broken now though, as a few time I swung too hard exiting and my pants were tougher then the lever.
I have an ’04 Cooper, and have put a custom centre exhaust on it, and have never burned myself. Not if it is subconscious or not. I usually am on the either side of it when loading and unloading.
My 14 year old son got seriously burned on my Mini-S unloading bags. The tail pipe barely protrudes from the back and is extremly hot, hotter then any tailpipe I have encountered. This problem was caused by a redesign and only affects about 24,000 Mini’s. Everyone talking about other Mini’s and other car tailpipes cannot compare, this was a design flaw only affect a small set of Mini’s. This factory design flaw makes the pipe hotter then any normal tailpipe, and was corrected. The pipe does not stick out far enough to make it obvious that is is a hazzard.
He now has a scar for life. So I guess I should tell him your a dumb-a## and that’s what you get. I guess if my son grew up around Harley’s he would have known better. Comparing this to a Harley tailpipe is ignorant. Harleys generally don’t have kids getting burned because they are taking something out of the hatch.
I do think it is reasonable to buy a car and not get burned during normal operation.
<p>burnt myself today when i was unloading some shelves at home depot, this is my first mini and i have several other cars which i clean alot and even right after driving them, those exhaust tips aren’t burning hot…….. I wouldn’t sue or anything thats just stupid, i just think mini should look into maybe cooling those tips down most people dont expect the tips of exhaust to be hot. I have a corvette, a muscle car……… cool exhaust tips after driving</p>