BMW Fighting MINI Recall

>NHTSA announced on Friday that it will hold a public meeting Dec. 17 and take comments until Dec. 12 on its Initial Decision that model year 2007 and certain MY 2008 Mini Cooper S vehicles contain a defect related to motor vehicle safety. Notified of this, BMW said it would not conduct a safety recall and instead has started a service campaign, which NHTSA has rejected, the notice stated.
>The alleged defect is in the vehicles’ exhaust pipe tips. NHTSA said its Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) and BMW “have received numerous complaints indicating that consumers’ legs have been burned while they access the rear cargo area of the subject vehicles via the rear hatchback shortly after the vehicles have been driven. As reflected by the complaints, people accessing the cargo area naturally place their legs at the rear of the vehicle. People are burned as they inadvertently contact either of the two hot exhaust pipe tips while removing items from, or placing items in, the rear cargo area. Some of the burn injuries are significant second degree burns, causing blistered skin or scarring, often in a half-moon shape pattern matching the approximately 2 3/4-inch diameter of the exhaust tips.
It would appear that this is an issue for the 2007 and early 2008 R56 MCS.
>ODI advised BMW by letter on Oct. 10, 2008, of its belief that the subject vehicles contain a safety-related defect in the exhaust pipe tips within the meaning of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act, and there ODI requested BMW to initiate a safety recall, notifying all owners, purchasers, and dealers of the defect and providing a free remedy for each of the subject vehicles. In its Oct. 27, 2008, response, BMW “declined to conduct the safety recall stating it is not warranted and informed NHTSA that, in the interest of customer satisfaction, it had instituted a Service Campaign concerning this issue.”
No need to rehash old news in the comments. But it does look like this is something that your dealer will be taking care for you under warranty. If not now then fairly soon it would seem. Please let us know your experience in the comments.
[ NHTSA, BMW Fighting Over Mini Cooper Recall ] OHSonline.com
57 Comments
I have the JCW kit on my MCS and they are almost even with the bumber. I also had a muffler shop adjust the hangers to get rid of the gap between the bumper and top of the tips, it’s about a 1/2 inch now.
What the should do is recall the cars for the cold start issue.
“What the should do is recall the cars for the cold start issue.”
To be honest I’m not sure BMW know how to fix the cold start issue. My dealer replaced my entire engine with a brand new engine about one month ago – and the new engine has already developed the problem. Still seems like the luck of the draw :/
The exhaust tip issue should be a relatively easy and inexpensive fix for MINI to accomplish, but it is in the company’s interest to treat this like they’ve treated most other issues – as a ‘silent’ recall. If the customer brings it up, no problem, but they’d rather not take the initiative to let all MINI owners about this. Maybe NAM should start a “Burned by the exhaust tip” owners club. You’d need to submit a picture of your scar to be accepted. All kidding aside, I hope no one was seriously hurt. I wonder if this was part of the reason for locating the Clubman’s exhaust tips to either side instead of in the middle.
The R&D team couldn’t figure out a way to tattoo all Mini owners, so they elected to go with branding instead.
What a CROCK! Maybe MINI should just issue a personal babysitter for those who need to be coddled.
I got the letter asking me to come to the dealer to get my tips replaced right after I had the JCW Stage 1 kit installed. I had to ask quite specifically for them to install the tips on the new exhaust so that I could see the badging, the revised installation instructions call for them to be tucked under the bumper.
I’ve never been burned by my car – guess I’m more aware than some. I applaud MINI’s effort to fix it for those who are concerned but agree that it doesn’t need to be a recall. Anyone who rides a motorcycle knows not to touch the pipes, stay away from hot things! Unfortunately the MINI’s tips are right in the middle where they can get in the way, but buyer beware.
Holy crap!!! Are you telling me my exhaust tips get hot when I drive my car? Why wasn’t I informed of this before I purchased it? Darwin may have something to say on this. If you are not smart enough to avoid the exhaust tips, perhaps you shouldn’t be driving. This is not MINI’s fault. Heaven forbid people take responsibility for their own actions.
I had my R56 in yesterday for a minor issue with the window venting [easy fix]. Cincinnati MINI wanted to know if I wanted to go ahead with the recall and told them no. I know the taipipes stick out and I will just be careful. I like how far they stick out and I accept the responsibiltiy if I burn myself
agreed on the silent recall idea… i burnt my leg on my exhaust pipes back when i first got the car… have a very minor scar, then again, i’m the kinda guy who looks at that and goes “hehehe that was AWESOME!!!” and i just simply watched the back where i put my legs, and i hadn’t burnt my legs since… i consider that a human learning capacity, if u burn urself on the stove once, you tend NOT to do it again, same thing with a car. granted now i have Alta’s Turboback exhaust and have had it for 7 months now, it pulled the exhaust in half an inch or so, so it’s actually slightly higher and behind where the stock pipes would be. that more than did the trick with me…
So Stigg and TC, if owners need to be responsible for thier own actions, shouldn’t Mini/BMW be responsible for thier own actions as well? If they made a crappy design, or had poor Q/C at the factory such that some cars come out with enough variance to create a hazard, doesn’t BMW/Mini have a reciprical duty to fix it? Or is it buyer beware on all things, the manufacturer has no responsibility and the purchaser is left hanging, no matter what?
Matt
I did receive a notice that I could bring my 2008 MCS in to have the exhaust adjusted. A co-worker received the same notice for his 2007 MCS. They suggested it would be a short time requirement but did not indicate exactly what would be done. It’s all a moot point for me since I installed an Alta turboback exhaust several months ago. The exhaust tips stick out beyoud the bumper a bit less than an inch and I can not get my leg to contact the tips unless I purposely take a very awkward stance. I suppose individuals of different heights may be impacted differently.
and yeah… MINI owners tend not to care too much about a small burn because of momentary brain disfunction… so just, grow up! it’s a badge of honor! if you get burnt by a Ferrari most people go A FERRARI BURNT ME!!! all excited like, not T_T a ferrari burnt me… then again people of that nature would sue for a couple grand because it’s a FERRARI … obviously the owner can deal 😛
not sure what the current cold start issues are, but i fixed my r53 cold start issues by buying different gas.
if i get a high ethanol blend like sunoco, costco, sam’s, etc, i always have the issue.
ethanol isn’t perfectly miscible in gas, so i think the cold sputtering is from that.
maybe this is old news? maybe this isn’t the right explanation, but i know for sure which gas stations make the problem come back…
as for the tailpipes, not a big deal for most of us. although, i’d feel bad if my gf, mom, etc were burnt b/c they’re not familiar w/ mini idiosyncrasies.
And for all the “grow up” comments, I’d just like to point out that one owners young (around 8 or so) year old daughter got a second degree burn from the owners car. Remember, it’s not just adult owners that have to deal with this.
Matt
I know from a close BMW source that MINI has not been sued over this issue. But, I have a 3 year old and have already explained that exhaust gets hot on cars and motorcycles. It’s just a matter of awareness.
Hot coffee could be….HOT!
Isn’s this kind of like sueing tabacco companies for giving you cancer after you’ve been a lifelong smoker? I think the 10% rule is in effect when it comes to driving. You have to be 10% smarter than the object you are attempting to opperate in order to use it correctly. Dr. Obnxs – call Dr. Phil for parenting advice.
SIGH
I can say that I understand why Mini is working on this in ways and applaud them for their efforts, the NHTSA is being more of a nanny squad as usual. I could understand them getting involved if some of the people making this complaints have had problems with getting their dealerships to work on this.
Matt still have a scar on my leg from childhood after getting fried on a 1942 Flathead Harley. Of course I don’t like people of any age getting hurt the fact is that as humans each of us will injure ourselves hundreds if not thousands of times over the course of a life. Just reflect back on your personal history and imagine if the government stepped in at every moment to protect you from the myriad of injuries you have had from manufactured items. Maybe its just me but think the government could stand over my shoulder 24 hours a day and I would still cut, burn, abrade, crush myself. So far I have not heard anything from any R56 owner saying they have had dealerships not working on fixing this issue so rather forcing a recall on a item that is being fixed is rather lost on me personally.
Matt the “PARENTS” were where when the kid burnt itself? Sorry to hear that the kid got burnt but it’s a case of parental negligence.
Matt said… “it’s not just adult owners that have to deal with this” Matt… this is true but that’s why kids have parents to protect them and teach them what is dangerous. I had 2 daughters, I used to race off road, they were around so much hot equipment, race cars entering and exiting the pits at high rates of speed out in the desert races, nasty chemicals and so on. Oh and lets not forget rattle snakes. They survived, I did my job as a parent.
So I guess if you owned a motorcycle and you had a kid and the kid burnt itself on the exhaust pipe it’s Honda’s fault?
Matt maybe you could send in a pic of where you would place the exhaust tips so a kid couldn’t get hurt? Seems even on my 2004 MCS they are exposed enough to hurt someone. Do you actually think moving the offending tips back 1″ or 2″ or even 5″ is going to fix the problem? Go out and look at your MINI and tell me a kid can’t get at them.
oooo so mad i am about this… malarky
only in silly amerika, would we have a problem like this.
I have an ’05 MCS and I’ve gotten a sizzle a time or two, but it’s usually when I’m trying to grab stuff in the middle of the car when the back seats are laid down. I’d rather see a recall that says, “These cars are waaay too much fun, and spirited driving may occur resulting in moving violations.”
Isumini.. now that’s right on!
I brought in my 2008 MCS for service a while ago, and they wanted to adjust the tailpipes. I like mine the way they are, and I never really wear shorts, plus I’m careful.
They serviced my car, and wrote they made the adjustment, but didn’t do anything, because I told them I really really don’t need / want it.
I am a service advisor for MINI, and I think the service campaign is fine as it is. We see about half of the customers declining the shortened tailpipes because they are happy with the look of their original tailpipes. They are aware that it is possible for legs to get burnt, but they choose to keep their current tailpipes and just be careful when they are behind the vehicle. We’d love to replace tailpipes because that generates dollars for the dealership, but many people decline replacement. We even have on display the old tailipe and the new tailpipe to see if people can tell the difference. The new one is a miniscule 2mm shorter and it’s really hard to distinguish the two unless you stand them up side-by-side. My personal guess is that MINI owners like to be different, and that’s probably why they bought a MINI. So they are trying to be different by rebelling against tailpipe replacement. 🙂
Kids will always get hurt because they don’t know better. Just like McDonald’s coffee can be hot, exhaust tips can be hot. Heck, I even grabbed a soldering iron with my hand when I was a kid, not knowing any better. Is it a design defect of the product? What about the exhaust pipes that ran along the side of the original Dodge Viper? People were burning their legs when they were getting in and out of the car. Heck, if you look at R50/R52/R53/R55 cars, their tailpipes stick out too and I could see how it would be possible to burn a leg on them. I just went outside to look at some BMWs and other cars parked on the street as well, and there are tailpipes that stick out plenty.
As far as the government getting involved and demanding it to be a recall rather than a service campaign, this is a prime example of taxpayer dollars being wasted. Don’t they have anything better to do? How about allocating the resources being wasted on bickering whether this should be a service campaign or a recall, and apply them to something more useful, like bailouts or a plan to stimulate the economy? This whole debate seems silly to me.
i agree with ciaoboy. maybe BMW should require all potential MINI customers to undergo an IQ test: if you score less than 125, they could recommend you head down the street to the Toyota dealership.
Fighting a NHTSA safety recall will only yield bad press.
Future used MINI buyers have a right to know. MINI/BMW would look much better if they recalled all cars involved.
People who don’t want the fix don’t have to. But MINI/BMW weighing the cost of bad press vs. the cost of recall work is what Walmart would do.
Ack!
I really can’t believe this whole thing started with some guy burning his leg because he got too close to the tips. If this guy did it on Mini, he could do it on any vehicle. I know that Dodge Vipers, after running for a while, the pipes that are on each side of the car and come out right behind the doors get very hot, and drivers and passengers have to climb out over the very wide, hot door sills. This just an example of many different cases that someone could get a little burn.
Besides, how bad could this “burn” possibly be? I want to see pictures!! This guy must be a little bit of a baby.
It makes me sick.
Ok guys lets stop the WHINNING about this issue and move on because OUR cars are the envy of many others:
1) go cart feeling
2) good mileage
3) 60% of resale value
4) PRICELESS!!!!
People are not only dumb but they are WIMPS!
Idiotic. Exhaust pipes have been extending beyond automotive bodywork since, well, the beginning. Like electrical sockets, fireplaces, irons, stoves, coffee/soup, etc., it is up to the owner/user/consumer/operator to be aware of potential danger and take necessary precautions to avoid injury.
Will there be a class action law suit on this? I hope so because I just hate to be responsible for my own actions.
They also need to move the speedo back over the steering wheel where it belongs! I got a stiff neck looking to my right so much!
Doc. Do you ever take the side that’s not lame?
I read this website for many years with pleasure but only these posts prompt me to intervene.
There is much looking down on people who are hurt by this and playing cool at having been scarred. The MINI owner is not a lonely super hero master of his own destiny but someone living in a society. Maybe he has given a ride to a friend or relative and these people cannot know that the design is flawed and they should follow a certain pattern. Sometimes people are in a rush to get something out of the boot because of external reasons and one cannot be always 100% vigilant least be scarred. Products need to be made the safest possible even if it means looking a little less unique. Standard in the aviation industry teach this lesson.
Believe it or not: I HAD MY PIPES DONE! Yes, I know, it’s stupid and frankly, pointless, but my car was in getting a new clutch and I asked about the pipe adjustment (as per my letter). I was told that the adjustment only moved the tips in about 3/4″. I’ve always thought my pipes looked a little long and low so went for it. The new look isn’t really as extreme as you’d think. They sit just inside the line of the bumper, but not so much as you’d notice or comment. Sadly, they didn’t tuck them upwards at all so the big tip-to-bumper gap is still there. I had hoped they’d be a little more fitted to the bumper like the R53. Oh, well. I’ll send pictures to MF so you all can see the finished result.
James
I have burnt my leg only once and I can say that It has not happened again. All BMW needs to do is to put a sticker on the boot that says “Caution, Exhaust maybe hot” or better “Hey idiot, You might get burned if you touch this”. Easy fix.
Geeze, if you read my posts, they didn’t take sides! One pointed out that at least one kid has been hurt (to counter people should know better, that was countered by parents should look out. Fair enough…) And they just asked what is the responisbility of a manufacturer or is all responsibility on they buyer? For all those that call me out on being a wimp or whatever on this issue, please just answer my question.
Damn, maybe this is just a bunch of whimps, maybe not. Seems that once again, debate dies in the face of entrenched positions.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Matt
Matt think the truth lays in the normal place somewhere in the middle. Yes owners need to accept that each of us needs to understand that most things in this world can be dangerous to us in some way. Mini should probably handle this as a recall though I still have to say I have not heard even one person say so far that they have had any issues with their dealers being willing to fix this.
The fact is the only reason that I am choking on this is I think Mini hasn’t done a bad job with this after it was identified and don’t quite understand why NHTSA choose this issue to play big brother with.
I for one really don’t want to live in a Nanny state. Little thing called personal responsibility says that I really don’t need the government to tell me to not take my tv into the bathtub with me. I have to be able to understand that I hold some responsibility for being aware of potential hazards around me.
It’s amazing how much time has been spent on this tailpipe issue. I just checked, and back in September there were 95 responses posted about it. What’s the big deal? You now have the choice to either have it fixed or leave it the way it is. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. I guess some people are so fed up with all the frivolous lawsuits made in this country they tend to overreact to any complaint made about anything – valid or not.
I’m not getting the recall done – instead I’m going to have the dealer install friggen lasers on my tailpipes.
Some other food for thought…. When I went to pick up my two kids from daycare tonight, I kept an eye out for other cars with center exit exhausts…. Didn’t see one! Most cars have offset pipes, and many non-sports cars have the pipe tucked up under the rear quarter behind a rear wheel pointing down at an angle. Most, but not all, had the pipes significantly less protruding than the farther parts of the overhang of the rear bumper.
So what do I think? It’s a crappy design all around. It bucks convention and it’s a fake differentiator over the other models. Splitting the flow only to add a bunch of 90 degree bends of gas flow is just stupid too. Worthy of a recal? I honestly don’t know…. But it’s less worthy than windshield stuff, where the stress of the mount meant many cracked on rock impacts that would have just chipped other windshields and the BS “pen test” was used to dodge responsibility. Not as bad as the strut tower design in earlier cars that had huge amounts of deformation in many a car. I don’t know if it’s as prevelent as the warping hood scoops that Mini is ignoring, and it’s much, much less vile than the Mini attitude on cold start clatter.
Maybe it’s just Mini getting what they deserve cause of how they delt with the other design issues. A sort of automotive karma…
Matt
I can live with the cold start clatter, my wife doesn’t notice that. But, if I have to hear about the damn half moon tattoo she has on her leg one more time………………
Thanks Mini for at least fixing this!
It’s a design flaw; MINI should (and IS) replace the tailpipes with a safer design. I don’t care if you think it’s cool to have been burned, idiotic to complain about getting burned, whatever. If you opt out, that’s your own choice but don’t blame others for bringing up the issue. The folks that are harping on people for bringing up the hot tailpipe issue here sound like the same sorts of people who would harp on those who complained about poorly placed gas tanks that easily explode during minor collisions. Before we had seat belts, if you drove your car fast and crashed, you were often critically injured or died. Was it idiotic for people to say…hey…maybe a new design element could reduce fatalities in car accidents?
Next time you take some medicine and have horrible side effects from it, consider that maybe all medicines are going to have horrific side effects, you should just expect it and that you should never blame the drug developers for it or ask them to develop drugs that have fewer side effects.
MINI has come up with a fix for the issue, as they absolutely should have done. I really don’t get why people are complaining that they did this or that the problem was ever brought to their attention.
Can’t the same/similar complaints be issued at just about every product? Never have seen the perfect car or the perfect support for the product. Mini still does a better job than most in my opinion Matt. How about just about every motorcycle made Matt that has no doubt fried more legs than any number of Mini’s.
You think the Nanny State is big in America? Well we in New Zealand just had elections and the Labour Govt got voted out for one reason of being too invasive into peoples lives telling us what to do and how to do it. PM Helen Clark (nickname Helengrad) has gone for good.
Now BMW are very recall savvy and will issue a genuine recall if necessary. By downgrading this to a special bulletin case is probably a true reflection of how they view the seriousness.
But I guess all this safety stuff wasc started by your own Ralph Nader – “unsafe at any speed”.
If its gotten this big and this far, its not the people, its bad design. Who the heck designs something where you can get easily burned? There is no need for people getting burned while loading/unloading their car
Look at any Harley/other motorcycle. The pipes are completely exposed and right next to where the peg for the passangers foot is to go. I have kids and a mini and bike. My dinan exhaust sticks out farther than stock. My 2 and 5 year old have not had a problem with either. No product BMW or any company will make will be completely idiot proof.
Wahh wahh wahh…
GregW I am more than aware that the US ranks high on the nanny state worldwide, i.e. don’t worry if the coffee is to hot our legal system will protect you . Some good has happened because of safety standards out of the US as well as many other nations that most countries enjoy. In my personal view though this never relieves anyone of us of personal responsibility.
rs I would bet if you look at the numbers of recorded burns per year oven/stoves are doing much more damage. Maybe the government should protect its citizens from this hazard too. Many people get scalded each year, where is the government to protect us from our water heaters. The base fact is that safety is a panacea in a great many ways, every car ever made is more than capable of burning, cutting, crushing, and abrading people. As a base fact just about any item out there can injure people bad design, guess its possible but waiting for perfection is going to be a while ;).
BMW is already addressing this, how would a mandatory recall change this. Also if it were recalled BMW would be forced to change this even if the owner asked them not to, which is currently about half the owners that take their cars in on this issue.
So when do we see the new “Hot Pipes” badges? Let the “decliners” show their pride and still provide warning for the unsuspecting.
Yes I rubbed against the pipe and had the half-circle burn. After a 4 hour drive I’m not thinking about my exhaust pipe. It wasn’t a big deal and now I know to watch out when grabbing stuff from the boot.
But with a 1 year old learning to walk, the last thing I want is permanent facial scarring. I plan to get the cut-back.
Just watch as a great enthusiasts car’s uniqueness gets watered down in the next generation because of a couple of whiners.
Remember the dissapearance of the burble because of minority complaining? Say goodbye to the cool pipes that looks sporty and (on mine at least) proudly say “John Cooper Works”.
Next thing you know they’ll ruin the looks by puffing up the hood to protect idiots who don’t know better than to walk in the road.
<blockquote>But with a 1 year old learning to walk, the last thing I want is permanent facial scarring. I plan to get the cut-back.</blockquote>
But first you should question your parenting skills.
Instead of spending time and money on this silly campaign, I much rather see BMW/MINI recalling their crappola LuK sourced clutch kits and dual mass flywheels which are of the most embarrasing quality ever.
While the Getrag manual gearboxes are top notch, the clutches in these cars are nothing but garbage. I have seen better clutches put on Russian Ladas.
The LuK OEM clutches and FWs are one of the reasons why I will never again purchase another manual transmission equipped MINI or BMW product ever. My next MINI (I do not bloody care what the enthusiasts may think) will be AUTOMATIC. That is right. The Toyota sourced, rock solid AISIN 6-speed auto with paddle shifters is the realible way to go. I no longer want to put up with crappy OEM clutches that don’t last more than 25K miles and glazing/squaling/self destructing dual mass flywheels.
MINIUSA has a “silent” TSB (SI M21 04 08 dated 9/2008) which confirms that the factory R53 S (And it seems prevalent problem on R56 and R55 S as well) flywheel is nothing but CRAP. Solution? Install brand new “revised” flywheel, clutch kit and transmission to engine aligning Dowels.
I am beyond DISGUSTED with the poor durability of OEM MINI clutches and FW’s. Embarrasing MINIUSA beyond belief.
Get your act together with your second rate clutch supplier LuK. Even the Pep Boys parts counter guys laugh at the poor quality of LuK parts.
This is where the REAL recall should be happening.
Afert my MINI Extended contract expires, My R53 S will be fitted with quality aftermarket clutch and flywheel.
I owned a 2003 Cooper. Great car. My wife received a nasty burn, which blistered and left a permanent scar on her calf as she loaded up the hatch area. There was nothing funny about it. Sure she knew that tailpipes can be hot. However, the Cooper’s (this is not just an issue on the ‘S’)pipes stick out further than most cars, perhaps further than they need to.
I have a Miata now – not an issue, as they sit well enough behind the plane of the bumper to be a concern. It’s not an issue on most cars. BMW/MINI should just fix it (recall or service bulletin – I don’t care). If owners decline it because they like the cool way it looks – fine. Then THEY don’t get to complain. Other folks – it’s a legitimate gripe – not something to sue over, but a gripe nonetheless.
I was scheduled to appear at that meeting. NHTSA told me this morning that BMW North America has agreed to the safety recall so there will be no public hearing. Glad that BMW is finally stepping up to the plate and doing what it should. It is a relatively few number of cars and quick, inexpensive fix. I wish it had been done before my seven year old burned herself trying to help with the groceries.
Still fail to understand why a recall was called for since Mini Dealers have been doing a great job contacting people about the very well advertised service campaign.
I am sorry for those that have been burned on the tail pipes, guess it explains why auto-up windows are never going to be offered. Now this has been addressed maybe everybody that has been injured by catching fingers in doors should get a recall to redesign this unsafe entry, maybe then we can get a recall for all of us that have mashed our hands while working on our cars. Then finally they can make sure to put a speed limiter on all our cars since high speed accidents injure so many. What do you think 10 or 15mph?
Not precisely humored on all the tax dollars spent to make Mini fix what it was already fixing.
only in america… etc.
I have owned multiple motorcycles over the course of 20 some years, and managed never to burn myself on the exhaust pipes and they are FAR move open then on the Mini…
– John